helen
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by helen on Jul 8, 2006 8:35:43 GMT -5
Once a B&R 2x2, this board has cured me of that. In fact cured me of religion altogether I think. I have many to thank for bringing me to a relaisation that I now enjoy. Ilylo perhaps most, with his God defying logic, but many others who have shown the holes in religion altogether.
I've now come to the conclusion that I cannot be saved, in fact wonder if there's such a thing, and question that God even exists.
Is there evidence of Gods existence? Can I find proof?
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Post by Rob O on Jul 8, 2006 8:38:18 GMT -5
Yes. And yes.
But you need to assess the evidence with an open mind. If you approach it already holding the conclusion that God doesn't exist, then it will be a waste of time.
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Post by selah on Jul 8, 2006 8:43:25 GMT -5
God says He will be found by those who ernestly seek Him. Helen, you could just ask if God is real, for Him to reveal that to you. I guess the question is, "Do you really want to find Him, or do you just want to find out if He's there?"
Blessings, Linda
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Post by studylearning on Jul 8, 2006 10:17:34 GMT -5
I have recently obtained a couple of videos related to intelligent design. Many in the hotly debated topic already have formulated their belief structure such that they either reject intelligent design outright or in fact belief without any inquiry of scientific support.
Here in the States the first type rejects because they do not want to admit or have God any where near studies of science. They in fact want to sanitize research to ignore any chance of external intelligent design having a role in scientific studies.
The second type are also to the extreme. Many in this group are those who teach and preach the 6000 year old earth. They want God in everything and just ignore science.
Well I got these tapes "The Privileged Planet" and "Unlocking The Mystery Of Life". Wow is all I can say. Yes they do have a slant by Scientific Philosophy but never the less they are very good and most of the information presented can be support by science.
One gives a detailed rebuttal of our life on Earth in terms of just being chance. When taking about all the things required to have this life, the statistics (in my opinion) show clearly that God (intellegent Designer) exists and it is not just evolution. The other video is about that life, in that it details the smallest aspects of cell design. I asked my daughter who has degrees in cellular biology if what I was watching is true. She said, yes that is how it works. When you see this video you will see complex smaller then nano machines at work with chemical coding that absolutely could not be random chance development. It is by design.
So then my question to myself is; If designed, then who did it. For me there is only one answer, God.
This debate can rage on and on but in the end, the absence of proof to the contrary is equally weighted. My point is that not one person can say without a doubt what existed before the so called big bang. Since we don't know and it now appears that evidence is showing intelligent design right down to the cell, it would be best to accept external powers greater then our knowledge. God for me does exist.
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Post by ilylo on Jul 8, 2006 11:59:57 GMT -5
Ilylo perhaps most, with his God defying logic Of all the compliments I have received, this is one of them.
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Post by sjg on Jul 8, 2006 12:12:05 GMT -5
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Post by Just Looking on Jul 9, 2006 1:06:46 GMT -5
Avoid the the earnestly seeking him bit like the plague. It's a wide open invitation to social manipulation, deception, and lala land.
The only thing that can save you is the honesty you now enjoy. If a God exists as the fair God you may have heard of, you can rest assured your honesty has already saved you.
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Post by OM on Jul 9, 2006 1:25:50 GMT -5
Don't give up on God. First, investigate non-Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions....such as: Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, and New Age. Just because you are unhappy and dissatisfied with the Christian God, is no reason not to continue upon the path of spiritual exploration. It is conceivable that there is a whole universe to explore....and we can explore this universe, without fearing the wrath of a biblical God. What a concept? Dare...to become a spiritual explorer.
~OM~
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Post by listen to rob on Jul 9, 2006 1:35:28 GMT -5
Heed what Rob says...for he is an emminent biblical scholar...and he knows a way lot more about holy script than all of us put together.
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Post by jxr on Jul 9, 2006 7:34:39 GMT -5
God exists because we define Him to exist. Thus, I think God is a figment of our imagination. The definition of God, in my opinion, is the whole purpose of Genesis (and probably the Pentateuch). Is Genesis or more completely, the Pentateuch, literal? I don't think so, but others do. I believe that the books of the Pentateuch are a collection of political expositions intended to unify and convince the proletariat of their superiority to neigbouring tribes.
Whether God, as defined by Judaeo-Christians, is a single, pantheist do-everything entity, or a collection of entities such as nature-gods, I think it is a moot point. After all, even the Judaeo-Christian God is a trinity (in some camps), so even these monotheists aren't so sure of the situation.
Either way, a god is a defined being, used to explain the presently unexplainable. The scope of the Judaeo-Christian God sufficiently flexible to allow for evolution of scientific understanding though. A god such as Thor (the Germanic thunder god) can literally be rendered irrelevant by some guy with a kite.
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Post by know on Jul 9, 2006 7:52:25 GMT -5
Once a B&R 2x2, this board has cured me of that. In fact cured me of religion altogether I think. I have many to thank for bringing me to a relaisation that I now enjoy. Ilylo perhaps most, with his God defying logic, but many others who have shown the holes in religion altogether. I've now come to the conclusion that I cannot be saved, in fact wonder if there's such a thing, and question that God even exists. Is there evidence of Gods existence? Can I find proof? Saved from what? Maybe we should all just get along and leave religion out of it. We can forgive one another here and now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2006 8:35:54 GMT -5
Once a B&R 2x2, this board has cured me of that. In fact cured me of religion altogether I think. I have many to thank for bringing me to a relaisation that I now enjoy. Ilylo perhaps most, with his God defying logic, but many others who have shown the holes in religion altogether. I've now come to the conclusion that I cannot be saved, in fact wonder if there's such a thing, and question that God even exists. Is there evidence of Gods existence? Can I find proof? You've completed stage one in preparation for the next brainwashing.
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Post by las logged out on Jul 9, 2006 8:43:54 GMT -5
Once a B&R 2x2, this board has cured me of that. In fact cured me of religion altogether I think. I have many to thank for bringing me to a relaisation that I now enjoy. Ilylo perhaps most, with his God defying logic, but many others who have shown the holes in religion altogether. I've now come to the conclusion that I cannot be saved, in fact wonder if there's such a thing, and question that God even exists. Is there evidence of Gods existence? Can I find proof? Just read Gods word and keep it...I do not believe that nobody can live like Christ did nor is expected to.Christs work on the cross a finished work we are not to hown it or enhance it- in any way we are to KEEP it What is so difficult to understand nobody can understand the mind of God is that what you are trying to do?
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Post by Rob O on Jul 9, 2006 10:24:30 GMT -5
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helen
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by helen on Jul 9, 2006 10:44:59 GMT -5
I think the replies have convinced me I'm on the right track. Salvation is of no importance. We live, like other animals, then we die. End.
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Post by Rob O on Jul 9, 2006 10:51:00 GMT -5
I suspect you are not genuine.
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Post by Done deal on Jul 9, 2006 10:51:58 GMT -5
Just read Gods word and keep it...I do not believe that nobody can live like Christ did nor is expected to.Christs work on the cross a finished work we are not to hown it or enhance it- in any way we are to KEEP it What is so difficult to understand nobody can understand the mind of God is that what you are trying to do? Once you accept that it is God's word you are there.
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Post by sjg on Jul 9, 2006 10:55:12 GMT -5
I think the replies have convinced me I'm on the right track. Salvation is of no importance. We live, like other animals, then we die. End. Then sadly you are in for a BIG surprise! Read the end of the Book. God's sole purpose in creating you was so He could have a relationship with you...here and now... and for eternity!
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Post by No Not True on Jul 9, 2006 11:47:22 GMT -5
I think the replies have convinced me I'm on the right track. Salvation is of no importance. We live, like other animals, then we die. End. No that is not true. Man from the very first had some basic instincts of moral value. If we were like other animals we would just go get what we need regardless of laws. Early Neanderthal man had a practice of bestowing care upon the bodies of his dead, interring with them in shallow graves tools and other objects of value. Some of these other objects were formed rock carvings of men like beings. This practice of reverence for the dead and adding non tools objects indicated that it was of a religious sense or at least a belief in some form of survival after death. Just think of that. Early humans which were some 40000 years old thought about life after death. Where did this concept come from. They were the closest to animals that could have been.
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Post by jxr on Jul 10, 2006 1:50:11 GMT -5
... Early Neanderthal man had a practice of bestowing care upon the bodies of his dead, interring with them in shallow graves tools and other objects of value. Some of these other objects were formed rock carvings of men like beings. This practice of reverence for the dead and adding non tools objects indicated that it was of a religious sense or at least a belief in some form of survival after death. Just think of that. Early humans which were some 40000 years old thought about life after death. Where did this concept come from. They were the closest to animals that could have been. Elephants must be related to Neanderthal www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1497634.htm
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Post by Think again on Jul 10, 2006 8:14:45 GMT -5
Man from the very first had some basic instincts of moral value. If we were like other animals we would just go get what we need regardless of laws. Laws and morality are not the same at all. The laws are a matter of group survival. Humans do not do well as individuals when it comes to survival. Burrying the dead does not imply some belief in an afterlife.
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Post by studylearning on Jul 10, 2006 9:22:49 GMT -5
+- ... Early Neanderthal man had a practice of bestowing care upon the bodies of his dead, interring with them in shallow graves tools and other objects of value. Some of these other objects were formed rock carvings of men like beings. This practice of reverence for the dead and adding non tools objects indicated that it was of a religious sense or at least a belief in some form of survival after death. Just think of that. Early humans which were some 40000 years old thought about life after death. Where did this concept come from. They were the closest to animals that could have been. Elephants must be related to Neanderthal www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1497634.htmSince they were both put here by the Creator then perhaps they both have a sense of something greater. I think many animals have a natural link to the Creator. Not related just the same creator. Neanderthal put objects in the Grave also. ;D
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Post by botany on Jul 10, 2006 20:49:59 GMT -5
Yes. And yes. But you need to assess the evidence with an open mind. If you approach it already holding the conclusion that God doesn't exist, then it will be a waste of time. Yes, the key word in your response is conclusion. I think the approach should be: "Does god exist? I don't know. Let's hear the 'facts' from all sides of the story." I suppose this may be the open mind you speak of? andy
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Post by Rob O on Jul 10, 2006 20:57:53 GMT -5
Yes Andy. That's the open mind I refer to.
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Post by botany on Jul 10, 2006 20:59:00 GMT -5
I think the replies have convinced me I'm on the right track. Salvation is of no importance. We live, like other animals, then we die. End. Yeehaw! I'm with ya! My greatest hope upon death is that I will be decomposed/devoured by bacteria, maggots, fungi, crows, coyotes, eagles, etc... Let the critters crawl through my skull and out of my eye sockets, licking their chops. In the event that won't happen, I then with to be cremated. Don't pickle me in some preservative! That's the worst thing anybody could ever do to a corpse! Heck, I'd rather my body be dragged through the streets, or left to rot in a mass grave than be embalmed. But in the end, for all our intelligence, we are not any different than the fly you just killed with the fly swatter. andy
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Post by botany on Jul 10, 2006 20:59:51 GMT -5
I suspect you are not genuine. Why could [Helen] not be genuine? andy
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Post by Rob O on Jul 10, 2006 21:08:59 GMT -5
She may be.....but if she is, then she is displaying a lack of application of critical thinking skills. There is nothing in this thread that remotely constitutes a sound argument to justify disbelief in God.
Yet she states: "I think the replies have convinced me I'm on the right track."
The options as I see them are:
1) She's easily convinced ie. gullible 2) She already disbelieves in God and some opinions here seem to confirm her disbelief 3) She's pot-stirring and not genuine
I think 1 is highly improbable. 2 is very probable, but my gut feeling is that 3 is the case.
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Research before you ask
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Post by Research before you ask on Jul 10, 2006 21:20:33 GMT -5
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