|
|
Post by What Hat on Sept 11, 2012 21:39:38 GMT -5
Love Wins by Rob Bell is one of the most talked about books of the last few years. There seem to be more critics who disagree with Bell's thesis of an after-life without eternal torment; but the one constant is that almost everyone has read it. Here is one brief clip, although there are dozens of clips on both sides of the question Bell has raised. www.youtube.com/watch?v=agRu8SZRMME&feature=fvwrel
|
|
|
|
Post by emy on Sept 11, 2012 22:01:00 GMT -5
Love Wins by Rob Bell is one of the most talked about books of the last few years. There seem to be more critics who disagree with Bell's thesis of an after-life without eternal torment; but the one constant is that almost everyone has read it. Here is one brief clip, although there are dozens of clips on both sides of the question Bell has raised. www.youtube.com/watch?v=agRu8SZRMME&feature=fvwrel I missed the starting bell! Convention coming up so may be a few weeks before I get/read the book. |
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Sept 12, 2012 17:21:22 GMT -5
Love Wins by Rob Bell is one of the most talked about books of the last few years. There seem to be more critics who disagree with Bell's thesis of an after-life without eternal torment; but the one constant is that almost everyone has read it. Here is one brief clip, although there are dozens of clips on both sides of the question Bell has raised. www.youtube.com/watch?v=agRu8SZRMME&feature=fvwrel I missed the starting bell! Convention coming up so may be a few weeks before I get/read the book. That's why I started this thread, but no worries. We won't be discussing it until October 1, so there is lots of time. It's also a fairly short book .... 200 pages with not many words on each page. |
|
|
|
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 12, 2012 17:34:52 GMT -5
I listened to it on CD, but haven't read it yet. I actually prefer audio, cuz I could never get used to Rob's conversational style...I'm sure he writes exactly like he speaks in church.
|
|
|
|
Post by Happy Feet on Sept 13, 2012 4:32:33 GMT -5
Love Wins assures people that everyone’s eternity ends up as heaven eventually. The second chances are good not just for this life, but for the next. And what if they aren’t? What if Jesus says on the day of judgment, “Depart from me, I never knew you” (Matt. 7:23)? What if at the end of the age the wicked and unbelieving cry out, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16)? What if outside the walls of the New Jerusalem “are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood” (Rev. 22:15)? What if there really is only one name “under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)? And what if the wrath of God really remains on those who do not believe in the Son (John 3:36)?
|
|
|
|
Post by snow on Sept 13, 2012 10:14:24 GMT -5
I believe that a God that damns for eternity is not a god. I have absolutely no question about that. What would be the point of it really? If you really think about this, there is not way an all loving, all forgiving all merciful god could send anyone of his creation to an eternity of torment. Really.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sylvestra on Sept 13, 2012 11:57:33 GMT -5
Love Wins assures people that everyone’s eternity ends up as heaven eventually. The second chances are good not just for this life, but for the next. And what if they aren’t? What if Jesus says on the day of judgment, “Depart from me, I never knew you” (Matt. 7:23)? What if at the end of the age the wicked and unbelieving cry out, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16)? What if outside the walls of the New Jerusalem “are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood” (Rev. 22:15)? What if there really is only one name “under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)? And what if the wrath of God really remains on those who do not believe in the Son (John 3:36)? I have not read the book, and don't plan to. However, in response to you're mentioning Act 4:12, I (and most believers of 'the restoration of all things" or "Universal reconciliation" - not universalism), all religions do not lead to the same experience. We come to be reconciled to God through Jesus, and none other. You ask all these "what ifs" as if believers of "Universalism" lead a different kind of life because (how shall I put this?) because they can "catch up" later. I don't think we live any different life than any who believe in eternal torment. |
|
|
|
Post by Happy Feet on Sept 13, 2012 17:18:13 GMT -5
Love Wins assures people that everyone’s eternity ends up as heaven eventually. The second chances are good not just for this life, but for the next. And what if they aren’t? What if Jesus says on the day of judgment, “Depart from me, I never knew you” (Matt. 7:23)? What if at the end of the age the wicked and unbelieving cry out, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16)? What if outside the walls of the New Jerusalem “are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood” (Rev. 22:15)? What if there really is only one name “under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)? And what if the wrath of God really remains on those who do not believe in the Son (John 3:36)? I have not read the book, and don't plan to. However, in response to you're mentioning Act 4:12, I (and most believers of 'the restoration of all things" or "Universal reconciliation" - not universalism), all religions do not lead to the same experience. We come to be reconciled to God through Jesus, and none other. You ask all these "what ifs" as if believers of "Universalism" lead a different kind of life because (how shall I put this?) because they can "catch up" later. I don't think we live any different life than any who believe in eternal torment. I didn't write that article - I wrote it from a commentary which asks questions against the book Love Wins. I don't agree with the book Love Wins. These are questions which the book does not answer and ignores. |
|
|
|
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 13, 2012 19:44:42 GMT -5
You've read the book, Happy Feet?
|
|
|
|
Post by Happy Feet on Sept 13, 2012 19:48:12 GMT -5
You've read the book, Happy Feet? No I have been listening to some of the videos and have been reading the reviews and articles on it. |
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Sept 13, 2012 20:00:35 GMT -5
Love Wins assures people that everyone’s eternity ends up as heaven eventually. The second chances are good not just for this life, but for the next. And what if they aren’t? What if Jesus says on the day of judgment, “Depart from me, I never knew you” (Matt. 7:23)? What if at the end of the age the wicked and unbelieving cry out, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16)? What if outside the walls of the New Jerusalem “are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood” (Rev. 22:15)? What if there really is only one name “under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)? And what if the wrath of God really remains on those who do not believe in the Son (John 3:36)? I was once troubled by such questions, but I believe the ideas of eternal torment have more to do with manipulation by religious leaders, than exist out of any genuine sense of the eternal, or even out of a realistic understanding of the Bible. Sylvestra makes a very good point. If our lives are the same whether we believe in eternal torment or not, then it becomes mainly an academic question. However, I honestly can't accept the idea of eternal torment. Hell or purgatory, yes. |
|
|
|
Post by Sylvestra on Sept 14, 2012 8:26:40 GMT -5
Love Wins assures people that everyone’s eternity ends up as heaven eventually. The second chances are good not just for this life, but for the next. And what if they aren’t? What if Jesus says on the day of judgment, “Depart from me, I never knew you” (Matt. 7:23)? What if at the end of the age the wicked and unbelieving cry out, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16)? What if outside the walls of the New Jerusalem “are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood” (Rev. 22:15)? What if there really is only one name “under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)? And what if the wrath of God really remains on those who do not believe in the Son (John 3:36)? I have not read the book, and don't plan to. However, in response to you're mentioning Act 4:12, I (and most believers of 'the restoration of all things" or "Universal reconciliation" - not universalism), all religions do not lead to the same experience. We come to be reconciled to God through Jesus, and none other. You ask all these "what ifs" as if believers of "Universalism" lead a different kind of life because (how shall I put this?) because they can "catch up" later. I don't think we live any different life than any who believe in eternal torment. In the middle of last night, I changed my mind but reading this book. I'll have to get a copy yet tho'. I understand the premise of the book, and I think I can fill in some of the things that he may have left out or ignored (as suggested in one post here.) |
|
|
|
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 14, 2012 9:58:56 GMT -5
Yay, Edy! I love your input, I'm glad you're joining us!
|
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Sept 14, 2012 19:34:13 GMT -5
Yay, Edy! I love your input, I'm glad you're joining us! *like* |
|
|
|
Post by Sylvestra on Sept 14, 2012 20:27:52 GMT -5
I have not read the book, and don't plan to. However, in response to you're mentioning Act 4:12, I (and most believers of 'the restoration of all things" or "Universal reconciliation" - not universalism), all religions do not lead to the same experience. We come to be reconciled to God through Jesus, and none other. You ask all these "what ifs" as if believers of "Universalism" lead a different kind of life because (how shall I put this?) because they can "catch up" later. I don't think we live any different life than any who believe in eternal torment. I didn't write that article - I wrote it from a commentary which asks questions against the book Love Wins. I don't agree with the book Love Wins. These are questions which the book does not answer and ignores. Can you identify the author of the quote? Or if it's from a book jacket (or something like that), can you offer the book name? Thanx! |
|
|
|
Post by Happy Feet on Sept 25, 2012 5:45:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Sylvestra on Sept 25, 2012 17:55:09 GMT -5
I got my book yesterday. Now, homework  |
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Sept 26, 2012 11:31:33 GMT -5
I'll message DD and see if we can get the conversation going on the weekend. (The 1st is Monday.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Sept 26, 2012 16:08:09 GMT -5
Yeah, that sounds great! I'll shoot for Sunday to get a new thread started (so I can cheat and read a bit on Saturday).
|
|
|
|
Post by Sylvestra on Sept 27, 2012 10:53:10 GMT -5
Are we going to be discussing just the book, or the subject of the book in general? Or both?
|
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Sept 27, 2012 11:45:20 GMT -5
Are we going to be discussing just the book, or the subject of the book in general? Or both? I think I know where you're going with that question. But first, it's quite difficult to discuss a book without discussing it's subject, so I would say, both. Second, people should have a wide latitude to discuss whatever they wish to discuss, although the moderator, Dubious Disciple, will try to stimulate discussion at the outset, and also when things stall. Knowing that you have really interesting views on those parts of Scripture that pertain to the question of Hell and the like, anything you'd care to share with us will add a lot to the discussion. Let's play it by ear, and see how it goes. If a discussion really goes off on an extended tangent, we can always break it into another thread as well. My only suggestion is that these discussions do take about 3 weeks before they exhaust themselves, so there's lots of time. You might consider just a few points at first, and see which ones attract comment before doing more. Or do a Nathan, and see what happens. |
|
|
|
Post by emy on Oct 14, 2012 19:52:52 GMT -5
I have decided not to read it.
|
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Oct 15, 2012 14:31:04 GMT -5
I have decided not to read it. That's fine. I think I understand that. However, stay tuned as we're bound to have titles in the future that are more to your liking. |
|
|
|
Post by ranman77OO7 on Oct 30, 2012 17:25:15 GMT -5
I have decided not to read it. Me too, lol... I also decided to not read this thread, except for the first couple posts, then I skipped to the end... I do like the title of the book though |
|
