|
Post by sacerdotal on Jun 18, 2012 11:16:58 GMT -5
From a Pentecostal site by a Pentecostal preacher: (it applies to the 2x2s equally as we all have the same human nature). Pompous Pentecostals Will Disfellowship One With Reckless Abandon. I’m not talking about disfellowshipping a person or a church because of immorality or doctrine that is contrary to Acts 2:38. I’m talking about precious people have been disfellowshipped for doing things that fall into the category of ‘doctrines of men’.Here is a short list of things I’ve seen some disfellowshipped over by pastors and saints. - Wearing the color red
- Wearing shoes with heels out
- Wearing shoes with toes out.
- Women’s hair not in a hair net.
- Because of no seams in women’s nylons.
- Women shaving their legs.
- Playing Old Maid.
The list is endless. Pompous Pentecostals are inconsistent. Pharisees always seemed to incur the rebukes of Jesus. He was more angry with them than the sinners.
My point is this. What if we Pompous Pentecostals disfellowship someone who God is still in fellowship with? Why are we so quick to cut people off?
How are we going to explain that in the Judgment? God forbid that we should go to heaven together with those that we disfellowshipped.from: martynballestero.com/2011/02/23/pompous-pentecostals/Helpful memes from the page:
|
|
|
Post by emy on Jun 18, 2012 13:11:38 GMT -5
Also from the site:
Because once you feel holier than the pastor, he can no longer help you or teach you. You in your own mind are holier than him and the church.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Jun 18, 2012 14:31:42 GMT -5
Also from the site: Because once you feel holier than the pastor, he can no longer help you or teach you. You in your own mind are holier than him and the church.If one feels holier than anyone, they have issues. This preacher is preaching a self-serving doctrine that allows for all kinds of abuses within groups. Some workers really uphold this kind of thinking, that to disobey them is to disobey God. Notice how the pentecostal preacher also raised the idea that one was disobeying more than just him. This is a type of spiritual blackmail. The full passage was about wearing wrist watches- something that the workers also used to be against. It is hogwash when a worker tries to maintain manmade bonds, and it is hogwash when another preacher says it too. Jesus said to 'Let each esteem the other better than himself.' I think that sums it up nicely. If a worker told you not to wear a wrist watch, would you stop? Even if you didn't have a conviction to do so? If so, why?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2012 16:30:29 GMT -5
.. . .. personally, i don't believe the Jesus Christ ever intended that His teachings would turn into a "holier than thou" type of contest . but see how good we humans are at turning ANYthing into a contest? it doesn't take much(speaking for myself) i may not be viewed or seen or considered "competitive"; yet those who know me best tell me i do have a competitive streak (which usually surfaces as perfectionistic tendancies) if i do something, i want to do it very well, or why bother i don't approach things in 1/2 way type of measure-this can be good or bad, take your pick, it depends then, when i start to do things well, i feel the pressure to KEEP doing things well and not falter-to keep up with the expectation that i will continue to do well, or else i will disappoint myself and other people so then, what a re lief it can be when we take the words of Jesus seriously that He intended we take seriously and use them in in our lives for the betterment and more peace , unload your burdens that you need to unload on Jesus and let Him relieve your burdens including the burden of self-righteousness self righteousness is not a good trait to have, right? it is looked upon as being well, holier than thou, but the person it really offends the most is the one who is self righteous as they are ultimately putting a great load upon themselves
|
|
|
Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 18, 2012 16:40:38 GMT -5
I'm better, but I don't feel any pride about it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2012 17:01:17 GMT -5
I'm better, but I don't feel any pride about it. . ... .. there is a difference between self betterment (improving yourself or doing something well) and holier than thou self-righteousness how many people can say with with accuracy and conviction that they are a godly person? if they state they are "godly" then they risk appearing self righteous, bragging, being proud .. true godliness does not need to be spoken with words, but we are "read" like a book anyways as what we do speaks volumes . ..
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jun 18, 2012 17:34:05 GMT -5
If a worker told you not to wear a wrist watch, would you stop? Even if you didn't have a conviction to do so? If so, why? My grandmother ran into this one. She was sure to wear her wrist watch to the dinnertable, and dared the workers to say anything. Yes, this was the 1920s. At this time, a woman would get into trouble with the workers for buying a refrigerator. My great-grandmother told quite a few brother workers what they could do with their thoughts about "it was sinful to have a refrigerator." She explained that it was more sinful for a woman to have strange men in her house, even if they were simply delivering ice to the icebox. The funny thing is that the workers want everyone to hold off doing new things, until the workers make up their minds about whether it's good or bad. Waiting on this final decision from workers is going to take a long, long time, and who has that kinda time?
|
|
|
Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jun 18, 2012 17:50:23 GMT -5
If a worker told you not to wear a wrist watch, would you stop? Even if you didn't have a conviction to do so? If so, why? My grandmother ran into this one. She was sure to wear her wrist watch to the dinnertable, and dared the workers to say anything. Yes, this was the 1920s. At this time, a woman would get into trouble with the workers for buying a refrigerator. My great-grandmother told quite a few brother workers what they could do with their thoughts about "it was sinful to have a refrigerator." She explained that it was more sinful for a woman to have strange men in her house, even if they were simply delivering ice to the icebox. The funny thing is that the workers want everyone to hold off doing new things, until the workers make up their minds about whether it's good or bad. Waiting on this final decision from workers is going to take a long, long time, and who has that kinda time? I know the workers didn't tell me I sould go to the bathroom and I messed my pants waiting for their answer. Shame on them.
|
|
|
Post by Greg on Jun 18, 2012 17:57:18 GMT -5
My grandmother ran into this one. She was sure to wear her wrist watch to the dinnertable, and dared the workers to say anything. Yes, this was the 1920s. At this time, a woman would get into trouble with the workers for buying a refrigerator. My great-grandmother told quite a few brother workers what they could do with their thoughts about "it was sinful to have a refrigerator." She explained that it was more sinful for a woman to have strange men in her house, even if they were simply delivering ice to the icebox. The funny thing is that the workers want everyone to hold off doing new things, until the workers make up their minds about whether it's good or bad. Waiting on this final decision from workers is going to take a long, long time, and who has that kinda time? I know the workers didn't tell me I sould go to the bathroom and I messed my pants waiting for their answer. Shame on them. Well, you were young and they probably thought your parents or caregiver would help you with that.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jun 18, 2012 19:07:16 GMT -5
I know the workers didn't tell me I sould go to the bathroom and I messed my pants waiting for their answer. Shame on them. Well, you were young and they probably thought your parents or caregiver would help you with that. You were young, wern't you Lin??
|
|
|
Post by quizzer on Jun 19, 2012 9:20:37 GMT -5
My grandmother ran into this one. She was sure to wear her wrist watch to the dinnertable, and dared the workers to say anything. Yes, this was the 1920s. At this time, a woman would get into trouble with the workers for buying a refrigerator. My great-grandmother told quite a few brother workers what they could do with their thoughts about "it was sinful to have a refrigerator." She explained that it was more sinful for a woman to have strange men in her house, even if they were simply delivering ice to the icebox. The funny thing is that the workers want everyone to hold off doing new things, until the workers make up their minds about whether it's good or bad. Waiting on this final decision from workers is going to take a long, long time, and who has that kinda time? I know the workers didn't tell me I sould go to the bathroom and I messed my pants waiting for their answer. Shame on them. The big question is: Did you wait for meeting to end to go to the bathroom, or did you run for the restroom while the last worker was speaking?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2012 17:04:50 GMT -5
After reading the treads today I would say their are some who think they know a lot about what is good for everyone from hair, dress, shoes and anything else you might want to know. Just ask and they will answer!!!!
|
|
|
Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jun 19, 2012 17:18:48 GMT -5
After reading the treads today I would say their are some who think they know a lot about what is good for everyone from hair, dress, shoes and anything else you might want to know. Just ask and they will answer!!!! You don't even need to ask
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jun 19, 2012 19:19:13 GMT -5
After reading the treads today I would say their are some who think they know a lot about what is good for everyone from hair, dress, shoes and anything else you might want to know. Just ask and they will answer!!!! You don't even need to ask No, ask, that's one thing you don't have to do on here. lol. Ah it's all good!! Love to you all.
|
|
|
Post by sheila on Jun 19, 2012 19:46:31 GMT -5
I'm better, but I don't feel any pride about it. Testimony at convention many years ago: "WELLLLLL, I am so PROUD that I ain't PROUD!"
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jun 19, 2012 20:05:46 GMT -5
I'm better, but I don't feel any pride about it. Testimony at convention many years ago: "WELLLLLL, I am so PROUD that I ain't PROUD!" Hahahaha! And it's true too, that's the funny and sad part. Thanks for the laugh.
|
|
|
Post by sharonw on Jun 19, 2012 20:16:22 GMT -5
Well, you were young and they probably thought your parents or caregiver would help you with that. You were young, wern't you Lin?? Well, we could make a rhyme about him, if he wasn't "young"!
|
|
|
Post by traceew on Jun 19, 2012 20:24:48 GMT -5
I once was in a meeting where a young girl gave her testimony and said "i am glad i am different than the world in that i dress different" This was spoken in a meeting I was in with my children before i quit when i always allowed them to wear pants and we were not well thought of because of it. Now many are accepting pants worn by women outside of meeting so what makes them better than others now?
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jun 19, 2012 20:51:20 GMT -5
You were young, wern't you Lin?? Well, we could make a rhyme about him, if he wasn't "young"! ;D
|
|
|
Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 19, 2012 22:46:33 GMT -5
I once was in a meeting where a young girl gave her testimony and said "i am glad i am different than the world in that i dress different" This was spoken in a meeting I was in with my children before i quit when i always allowed them to wear pants and we were not well thought of because of it. Now many are accepting pants worn by women outside of meeting so what makes them better than others now?
|
|
|
Post by breakingfree on Jun 20, 2012 18:59:01 GMT -5
From a Pentecostal site by a Pentecostal preacher: (it applies to the 2x2s equally as we all have the same human nature). Pompous Pentecostals Will Disfellowship One With Reckless Abandon. I’m not talking about disfellowshipping a person or a church because of immorality or doctrine that is contrary to Acts 2:38. I’m talking about precious people have been disfellowshipped for doing things that fall into the category of ‘doctrines of men’.Here is a short list of things I’ve seen some disfellowshipped over by pastors and saints. - Wearing the color red
- Wearing shoes with heels out
- Wearing shoes with toes out.
- Women’s hair not in a hair net.
- Because of no seams in women’s nylons.
- Women shaving their legs.
- Playing Old Maid.
The list is endless. Pompous Pentecostals are inconsistent. Pharisees always seemed to incur the rebukes of Jesus. He was more angry with them than the sinners.
My point is this. What if we Pompous Pentecostals disfellowship someone who God is still in fellowship with? Why are we so quick to cut people off?
How are we going to explain that in the Judgment? God forbid that we should go to heaven together with those that we disfellowshipped.from: martynballestero.com/2011/02/23/pompous-pentecostals/Helpful memes from the page: That's interesting about the color red. I remember in high school I had a red dress with a red, doily-like collar. I was friendly with a girl my age from Louisiana who was visiting our convention. When I wore that dress she told me she had been severely reprimanded for wearing a red dress by a brother worker at her convention in LA. She said he demanded she change clothes because red is the color of the devil. Where does this belief come from? Anyone know?
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jun 20, 2012 19:13:45 GMT -5
That's interesting about the color red. I remember in high school I had a red dress with a red, doily-like collar. I was friendly with a girl my age from Louisiana who was visiting our convention. When I wore that dress she told me she had been severely reprimanded for wearing a red dress by a brother worker at her convention in LA. She said he demanded she change clothes because red is the color of the devil. Where does this belief come from? Anyone know? Probably from Revelations 12:3 KJV And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. This wasn't the Devil, but it could be where the color red came from. The cloven hoofs comes more from the Pan of Greek mythology. Plus, the devil is equated with fire and so maybe that's where the red came from. He's fireburnt . Also, Red is considered to be a 'hot' color in the world of symbolism. Personally, I think it is pagan in origin and not biblical. Or, possibly that started with Dante?
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Jun 20, 2012 19:52:11 GMT -5
That's interesting about the color red. I remember in high school I had a red dress with a red, doily-like collar. I was friendly with a girl my age from Louisiana who was visiting our convention. When I wore that dress she told me she had been severely reprimanded for wearing a red dress by a brother worker at her convention in LA. She said he demanded she change clothes because red is the color of the devil. Where does this belief come from? Anyone know? My wife remembers when the color red was banned for professing folks. It was banned up until the 1970s. Many fundamentalist Christian groups have had an adversion to the color red- Baptists included. But, I have noticed, the 2x2s follow after the Baptists' changing traditions in ideas related to dress, worldliness, racism, etc- we are just 20 - 30 years slower to change. But of course, the Baptists themselves adopt new changes as society/the world changes. Baptists once required black stockings- they dropped the standard, and a long while later, so did the 2x2s. Baptists used to be against radios and TVs. Baptists used to be against men and women sitting together at church (2x2 conventions used to be segregated with women on one side and men on the other). Baptists used to be against women wearing pants. Divorce used to be a huge social stigma within the Baptists. Baptists used to be against the color red. Baptists used to require blacks and whites meet in separate churches. But, all of these "standards" fell by the way side as society changed and it became more culturally acceptable to do those things. So much so that an atheist might ask, "Are these rules/standards Spirit led, or led by the world?" I would submit that all of these man made rules/standards are led by the spirit of the world rather than the Holy Spirit. I think that rules against things like the color "red" are born of man's imaginations and fears, rather than born of God. I submit that they are products of superstition, rather than a fruit of the Spirit. But, I digress. As late as the 1980s, many friends still were afraid to wear the color red. Why? Because the workers had preached against it at some point in their lifetime. One of the great workers within the 2x2 system was a man by the name of William Lewis. He has passed on, but he was a man that I had a great deal of respect for. He once told me not to fear any worker, "they put their pants on one leg at a time just like you." He was also one of the workers most instrumental in breaking the color barrier. Yes, I mean, wearing the color red. My wife says that she remembers the buzz that William caused by showing up to a convention wearing a red tie or a crimson cardigan sweater (he often times wore both.) That red really set the tongues to wagging amongst the friends at that convention. However, William's stance made a difference. If a great preacher like William could wear red, then it must be OK- so the friends quickly began wearing red. (We really are sheep, or is it lemmings?) As recently as 1988, other workers, and old friends would ask William why he decided to wear red. I was at a lunch gathering once with William and some of his close friends. One of the older ladies asked, "Mr. William, why did you begin to wear red?" He didn't answer immediately. I thought that perhaps he was going to dodge the question. But shortly, a wry smile formed on his face and he leaned forward conspiratorially and said softly, "Well, I always tell people I think that it is because I have a little to much nig**** in me." And then he laughed, and laughed. We all did. (One of the younger sister workers chastised him for using the N word, but I didn't think too much about it. He grew up dirt poor during the Great Depression in Mississippi and that had been a very common word for whites to use. It didn't carry the heavy stigma that it does today, but she was right to warn him and he took it good naturedly.) If the color red was still forbidden by the workers, I find it interesting that in our topics on modesty and jewelry that some professing people that post here would be on the opposite side against Mr. William. I can hear them now- "A person that wants to wear red is just trying to draw attention to themselves" they would write, just as they write about any that might choose to wear a necklace or bracelet. But, wisdom is justified of her children. Thank goodness for workers like Mr. William Lewis that had the courage to call nonsense- "nonsense" and gave it the consideration that it deserved, which is to say, in my opinion- none. The last testimony that I remember William giving was about "the deep things of the Bible. The things that we would spend eternity learning about and getting to the bottom of." Did he speak from Ezekiel? Isaiah? Jeremiah? Revelation? No. He said that the deep things in the bible were Jesus's words in Matthew 5,6 and 7. I remember being disappointed at the time. I wanted to hear Mr. William speak from Revelation or Isaiah. However, as many, many calendar pages have since been turned, I realize, Mr. William was right. Knowledge puffs us up. Prophecy is fulfilled and nullified. But learning to hunger and thirst after righteousness, learning to love my enemies, learning to be meek, learning to be poor in spirit, etc. those really are the eternal and deep secrets of the Bible- in conclusion- we are learning of Christ and His power- and He is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and last, yea, the All in All. And best of all, in my bible, those verses were written in the color red.
|
|
|
Post by breakingfree on Jun 20, 2012 20:07:41 GMT -5
That's interesting about the color red. I remember in high school I had a red dress with a red, doily-like collar. I was friendly with a girl my age from Louisiana who was visiting our convention. When I wore that dress she told me she had been severely reprimanded for wearing a red dress by a brother worker at her convention in LA. She said he demanded she change clothes because red is the color of the devil. Where does this belief come from? Anyone know? Yep...this would have been around 1988-89 when my friend told be about her experience. She thought I was being brave to wear red at convention. Thanks for your reply.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jun 20, 2012 20:18:28 GMT -5
I think it's interesting about the color red. I never knew it was wrong to wear red. I wore it quite a bit because I liked it. Guess that was just one more thing I did wrong. Guess it didn't matter to the workers anymore because it seemed like I was too far gone for them to worry about wearing red.
|
|
|
Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 20, 2012 21:23:56 GMT -5
If the color red was still forbidden by the workers, I find it interesting that in our topics on modesty and jewelry that some professing people that post here would be on the opposite side against Mr. William. I can hear them now- "A person that wants to wear red is just trying to draw attention to themselves" they would write, just as they write about any that might choose to wear a necklace or bracelet. Or so you speculate. Biblical prophecy? Nullified? No. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. I think that goes for prophecy as well.
|
|
|
Post by sacerdotal on Jun 20, 2012 21:38:48 GMT -5
Biblical prophecy? Nullified? No. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. I think that goes for prophecy as well. William had a great Christian sermon and someone nit picks with him about prophecy one day being fulfilled? Am I to take it that what I wrote about William has made you hyper critical of him? Umm, not sure why you are commenting about the law, and as I hadn't written anything about it, I can't answer your comment to that. But, prophecy, by definition, will be fulfilled. Jesus was prophesied to come and be a Savior for mankind. He fulfilled it. That prophecy was concluded. Jesus is prophesied to be coming again to claim His own. That prophecy, one fine day, will also be fulfilled. Paul wrote as much in I Corinthians 13. "9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come , then that which is in part shall be done away . 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly ; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known . 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity"And why is charity the greatest? Because faith won't be needed once we are in eternity. Hope will be fullfilled. But the love is everlasting. Just as William said. All of I Corinthians 13 could apply to what William spoke that day. Remember, William was talking about when we are in eternity! After God's plan has all been fulfilled. Since you mentioned the Law, will it be needed when we are in eternity with our new body on a new earth where no sin will be, or will it have been fulfilled?
|
|
|
Post by calleduntoliberty on Jun 20, 2012 23:31:30 GMT -5
Biblical prophecy? Nullified? No. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. I think that goes for prophecy as well. William had a great Christian sermon and someone nit picks with him about prophecy one day being fulfilled? Did he say "nullified"? I thought that was your interpretation. You're certainly free to make that assumption if you so choose. Jesus is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. OK, you're just agreeing with me here. That's fine. Fulfilled but not nullified. To use synonymous phrases, not made void, not rendered invalid. Our choice of words is important. To not correct a mistaken word choice can lead to decades of confusion. The law has already been fulfilled.
|
|