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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 11, 2012 11:15:54 GMT -5
I hope that everyone enjoyed the book. Here is the first topic of discussion: (have fun- there are no right or wrong answers/opinions).
Were you able to relate to this story of the little boy with an odd name from India who grew up in a zoo? How so? Or, if not, why not? Were you surprised by the feeling of familiarity with Pi and his family?
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Jun 11, 2012 13:06:52 GMT -5
"Grew up in a zoo"...ha! Don't we all. I enjoyed the discussion in the book about how to care for animals. Or rather, how to coexist with them. I've been tempted since reaching the end of the book to go back and read the first part again, to see how to care for animals in a new light  I could relate to Pi's growing up years on some levels, but not on others. Teasing in school, sure, who doesn't get that, but certainly didn't feel alone. And I didn't need to go searching for God...His presence was everywhere, and his chosen people were quite obvious, I was secure in my special place on earth. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 11, 2012 21:32:34 GMT -5
Were you able to relate to this story of the little boy with an odd name from India who grew up in a zoo? How so? Or, if not, why not? Were you surprised by the feeling of familiarity with Pi and his family? [/quote]
I was a little girl that had a odd name that I rejected because of that, & was known by my middle name.
we lived on a farm, in some ways, I suspose like a zoo in that animals had different requirements in food & enviornment.
None were very dangerous except a rooster or gander that didn't take to you.
Bulls were very dangerous but I don't remember we ever had one. One of my class mate's mother was killed by one.
(However, none of this occured to me as I read the story.
I didn't really feel any familiairity with Pi or his family. We lived through the depression & my father wasn't as laid back as Pi's father. Neither my mother & father discussed anything that I heard.
Growing up "in the truth" I never questioned others religions- they were all "false" according to the truth, therefore nothing to discuss.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 11, 2012 22:36:34 GMT -5
I could relate to the story because when I was a little boy I had a very active imagination, so I find it easy to picture myself living such a life and getting to know all the animals. I have always seemed to have a way with animals all my life, and I could picture myself having all those animals to talk to and get to know. I like to immerse myself in a book when I read it, so I could picture his family life and how they interacted in my mind. I allow myself a lot of visualization when reading, so when Pi would talk about the animals or the settings they were in, I would 'be there' in my mind. I am not all the way through the book, as I have had a few other things going on in my life recently that has occupied my time, but am enjoying the story. |
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 12, 2012 11:45:00 GMT -5
I have had the privledge of working with and making many friends from India. They introduced me to Indian restaurants- I am forever in their debt.
My friends are very hard working and also very interested in always furthering their education- as well as their children's education. Almost all of my Indian friends are Hindu. They have little statues of a god- my favorite is the elephant- on their dashboards. Some of them have the little dot on their foreheads. I learned that one can buy packets of the little dots. Like, Pi, I ask a lot of questions. I love learning about their culture, about their religion, and about their country. I adore the Indian culture and wonder at the sameness with my own upbringing.
All of my Indian friends have had arranged marriages. Imagine the outrage on this board if the workers were to arrange marriages! But, their marriages work for them. I think it is because of the sameness of their values which seems to be one of the biggest reasons that marriages fail- because of a difference of values.
I enjoyed learning about Pi. I could relate to his wondering about religion/higher powers. I think that Pi has a very good heart- one that wants to help his fellow man and not allow religion to interfere with that plan. I even loved how he spoke fondly of his prayer rug that he used for praying to God toward Mecca. It wasn't so much that he valued the rug- but that he valued prayer.
And, it was good for me to hear a foreign voice regarding Christ. To hear from someone that wasn't raised a Christian and to hear how he first thought of Christ and God's plan for us:
And what a story. The first thing that drew me in was disbelief. What? Humanity sins but it's God's Son who pays the price? I tried to imagine Father saying to me, "Piscine, a lion slipped into the llama pen today and killed two llamas. Yesterday another one killed a black buck. Last week two of them ate the camel. The week before it was painted storks and grey herons. And who's to say for sure who snacked on our golden agouti? The situation has become intolerable. Something must be done. I have decided that the only way the lions can atone for their sins is if I feed you to them."
"Yes, Father, that would be the right and logical thing to do. Give me a moment to wash up."
But, I could surely relate to Pi when he said, "I couldn't get Him out of my head. Still can't. I spent three solid days thinking about Him. The more He bothered me, the less I could forget Him. And the more I learned about Him, the less I wanted to leave Him."
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 12, 2012 11:51:22 GMT -5
Growing up "in the truth" I never questioned others religions- they were all "false" according to the truth, therefore nothing to discuss. That was my upbringing as well. Do you think that hindered you in anyway from being open minded in regards to your thoughts of God, religion, and your place on earth? I think that it hindered me. As long as I was close minded to the experiences of others, then I was missing out on a banquet that the Spirit was wanting to give me. I appreciate Pi's open mindedness regarding religion. One of my favorite quotes from the book was about that concept of close-mindedness or small-mindedness: "As if this small-mindedness did God any good.
To me, religion is about our dignity, not our depravity."
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 12, 2012 11:56:03 GMT -5
I could relate to the story because when I was a little boy I had a very active imagination, so I find it easy to picture myself living such a life and getting to know all the animals. I have always seemed to have a way with animals all my life, and I could picture myself having all those animals to talk to and get to know. I like to immerse myself in a book when I read it, so I could picture his family life and how they interacted in my mind. I allow myself a lot of visualization when reading, so when Pi would talk about the animals or the settings they were in, I would 'be there' in my mind. I am not all the way through the book, as I have had a few other things going on in my life recently that has occupied my time, but am enjoying the story. Yes, Pi's father would need to have a chat with you as well about your "Animalus anthropomorphicus, the animal as seen through human eyes." That is one of the themes of the book. Pi's active imagination helped to save his life. But, I think that that will be another thread posting, that about "animalus anthropomorphicus". There is quite a bit of foreshadowing at the beginning of the book that tends to give clues as to the "real" story of the ending of the book. |
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 12, 2012 11:59:21 GMT -5
And I didn't need to go searching for God...His presence was everywhere, and his chosen people were quite obvious, I was secure in my special place on earth. In light of that, do you agree with Pi when he said, "an oaf chased me away from the Great Mosque. When I went to church the priest glared at me so that I could not feel the peace of Christ. A Brahmin sometimes shooed me away from darshan. My religious doings were reported to my parents in the hushed, urgent tones of treason revealed.
As if this small-mindedness did God any good."Do you believe that you were raised "closed minded" or "small-minded?" |
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Jun 12, 2012 16:42:12 GMT -5
sacerdotal, I was so closed-minded I held no curiosity whatsoever about all them false churches. And in a small town, there were of course no Mosque's, but clearly if there WERE such places, they would be full of oafs.
I laughed out loud a lot at Pi's descriptions, especially when the three advisors started squabbling, but of course, the author is setting us up to think about religion on a higher level.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 12, 2012 19:42:20 GMT -5
Growing up "in the truth" I never questioned others religions- they were all "false" according to the truth, therefore nothing to discuss. That was my upbringing as well. Do you think that hindered you in anyway from being open minded in regards to your thoughts of God, religion, and your place on earth? [/i][/color][/quote] |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 12, 2012 19:45:20 GMT -5
sacerdotal, I was so closed-minded I held no curiosity whatsoever about all them false churches. And in a small town, there were of course no Mosque's, but clearly if there WERE such places, they would be full of oafs. I laughed out loud a lot at Pi's descriptions, especially when the three advisors started squabbling, but of course, the author is setting us up to think about religion on a higher level. |
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 13, 2012 11:03:57 GMT -5
What does it mean to you, where Pi said, "To me, religion is about our dignity, not our depravity." Do you think that it is in the same vein as what Barry Goldwater, a past US Presidential candidate once said:  |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 13, 2012 11:42:06 GMT -5
What does it mean to you, where Pi said, "To me, religion is about our dignity, not our depravity." Do you think that it is in the same vein as what Barry Goldwater, a past US Presidential candidate once said: |
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 13, 2012 11:49:47 GMT -5
I agree with Goldwater on that one. IMO the Rebublican has done just that in the past decade. They have even more so this year. So, do you think that the Christian Right Wing speaks to what Pi was referring to religion and depravity? I do. I cringe when I hear or see people trying to force their religion and religious ideals upon another person. The theme that Pi seemed to get regarding Christianity was "love". Paul said the same thing in I Corinthians 13- without love, everything else is moot. With love (and the acts of kindness that love produces) Pi could see where religion was about our dignity. When the Imam, the Hindu priest, and the Catholic priest were arguing over which religion that Pi should belong- Pi saw the argument of who was right as religion's depravity. I think that Goldwater was seeing the same thing. |
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 13, 2012 11:53:56 GMT -5
I agree with Goldwater on that one. IMO the Rebublican has done just that in the past decade. They have even more so this year. I lean conservative, and therefore, Republican- but the Christian meddling in the Republican party is a huge concern and I think that they hurt the party more than they help it. |
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Jun 13, 2012 18:24:51 GMT -5
What does it mean to you, where Pi said, "To me, religion is about our dignity, not our depravity." Wasn't this quote around the time he was discussing his confusion that Jesus had to suffer and die? For Christians, it's all about the story. Or, rather, the Story, since Christians like capital letters. All Pi knew about Christianity before hearing the Story was its reputation for few gods, great violence, and good schools. Again, having finished the book and now understanding the emphasis on Story, these tidbits make more sense. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 13, 2012 19:25:09 GMT -5
What is/are the next question?(s)
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 13, 2012 20:04:47 GMT -5
What does it mean to you, where Pi said, "To me, religion is about our dignity, not our depravity." Wasn't this quote around the time he was discussing his confusion that Jesus had to suffer and die? For Christians, it's all about the story. Or, rather, the Story, since Christians like capital letters. All Pi knew about Christianity before hearing the Story was its reputation for few gods, great violence, and good schools. Again, having finished the book and now understanding the emphasis on Story, these tidbits make more sense. I enjoyed learning about Christ through the eyes of a foreigner who grew up worshiping other god's. It was nice to see Him through a new perspective. Here is the quote in the context that it was in, from Chapter 25. There are always those who take it upon themselves to defend God, as if Ultimate Reality, as if the sustaining frame of existence, were something weak and helpless. These people walk by a widow deformed by leprosy begging for a few paise, walk by children dressed in rags living in the street, and they think, "Business as usual." But if they perceive a slight against God, it is a different story. Their faces go red, their chests heave mightily, they sputter angry words. The degree of their indignation is astonishing. Their resolve is frightening.
These people fail to realize that it is on the inside that God must be defended, not on the outside. They should direct their anger at themselves. For evil in the open is but evil from within that has been let out. The main battlefield for good is not the open ground of the public arena but the small clearing of each heart. Meanwhile, the lot of widows and homeless children is very hard, and it is to their defence, not God's, that the self-righteous should rush.
Once an oaf chased me away from the Great Mosque. When I went to church the priest glared at me so that I could not feel the peace of Christ. A Brahmin sometimes shooed me away from darshan. My religious doings were reported to my parents in the hushed, urgent tones of treason revealed.
As if this small-mindedness did God any good. To me, religion is about our dignity, not our depravity.Martel, Yann (2002-06-04). Life of Pi (pp. 70-71). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition. |
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 13, 2012 20:11:34 GMT -5
What is/are the next question?(s) Did this passage touch a nerve with anyone? I think that we, as adults, for the sake of uniformity, take a little of the joy out of life because we are afraid of what others will think about us. I really felt compassion for Pi during this episode. The first time I went to an Indian restaurant in Canada I used my fingers. The waiter looked at me critically and said, "Fresh off the boat, are you?" I blanched. My fingers, which a second before had been taste buds savouring the food a little ahead of my mouth, became dirty under his gaze. They froze like criminals caught in the act. I didn't dare lick them. I wiped them guiltily on my napkin. He had no idea how deeply those words wounded me. They were like nails being driven into my flesh. I picked up the knife and fork. I had hardly ever used such instruments. My hands trembled. My sambar lost its taste.
Martel, Yann (2002-06-04). Life of Pi (p. 7). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition. |
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Post by What Hat on Jun 14, 2012 15:02:53 GMT -5
Growing up "in the truth" I never questioned others religions- they were all "false" according to the truth, therefore nothing to discuss. That was my upbringing as well. Do you think that hindered you in anyway from being open minded in regards to your thoughts of God, religion, and your place on earth? I think that it hindered me. As long as I was close minded to the experiences of others, then I was missing out on a banquet that the Spirit was wanting to give me. I appreciate Pi's open mindedness regarding religion. One of my favorite quotes from the book was about that concept of close-mindedness or small-mindedness: "As if this small-mindedness did God any good.
To me, religion is about our dignity, not our depravity."
The story about Pi joining three of the major religions and observing all three at the same time was quite whimsical and told to make a point. I think that as a child my feelings about God were very genuine, and in a way, independent of any religion. Although, I would say that as a child I did think that only our Dutch Reformed religion was the right one. I think it requires a certain level of enlightenment to think that other religions are experiencing a relationship with God that is, at heart, similar to your own. As a child, things outside one's own existence have a strange-ness or new-ness that prevents one from finding common emotional and human elements. I agree with Scott that we can project ourselves vicariously into this story, in part, because of the simplicity of the telling, and the appeal to common factors that make us human. I believe the term "magical realism" applies to this kind of story. From wiki - Magic realism or magical realism is an aesthetic style or genre of fiction[1] in which magical elements blend with the real world. The story explains these magical elements as real occurrences, presented in a straightforward manner that places the "real" and the "fantastic" in the same stream of thought. Although it is most commonly used as a literary genre, Magic Realism also applies to film and the visual arts.So, in the story operates not only in the realm of Indian culture, but in a setting that has many fantastic elements. Parents running a zoo, every religion present in the town, emigrating to a foreign country with all those animals on the same ship .. and it gets more fantastic the further it goes. |
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Post by What Hat on Jun 14, 2012 15:05:11 GMT -5
sacerdotal, I was so closed-minded I held no curiosity whatsoever about all them false churches. And in a small town, there were of course no Mosque's, but clearly if there WERE such places, they would be full of oafs. I laughed out loud a lot at Pi's descriptions, especially when the three advisors started squabbling, but of course, the author is setting us up to think about religion on a higher level. I would argue that as a child your spiritual experience is very genuine and child-like. I don't perceive that as 'close-minded'ness, more like 'only-minded'ness. |
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 14, 2012 15:35:09 GMT -5
I agree. How can you get more fantastic (without getting into SC-FI or SC-FANTASTIC genre) than putting a whole zoo on board a ship, yet the way they cared for the animals on the ship seemed realistic enough.
Yet, in the life boat PI delt with the problems actually very concretely.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 14, 2012 15:36:47 GMT -5
I was delighted with the whole part of the different religions!
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Post by ScholarGal on Jun 14, 2012 17:09:02 GMT -5
What is/are the next question?(s) Did this passage touch a nerve with anyone? I think that we, as adults, for the sake of uniformity, take a little of the joy out of life because we are afraid of what others will think about us. I really felt compassion for Pi during this episode. The first time I went to an Indian restaurant in Canada I used my fingers. The waiter looked at me critically and said, "Fresh off the boat, are you?" I blanched. My fingers, which a second before had been taste buds savouring the food a little ahead of my mouth, became dirty under his gaze. They froze like criminals caught in the act. I didn't dare lick them. I wiped them guiltily on my napkin. He had no idea how deeply those words wounded me. They were like nails being driven into my flesh. I picked up the knife and fork. I had hardly ever used such instruments. My hands trembled. My sambar lost its taste.
Martel, Yann (2002-06-04). Life of Pi (p. 7). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition. This passage actually brought to mind a number of food culture episodes I've experienced in my life. In college, I attended an Oxfam Hunger Banquet where I was assigned to the "poor" section. (The upper tier got a beautiful plated entree, the middle tier got plates & forks with some rice & beans, and the poor tier got paper bowls and a little rice.) One of my classmates showed me how to eat rice out of the paper bowl with my fingers since we didn't get any utensils. It's easier when you use the proper technique. Several years later, a work colleague invited a few people to his apartment for lunch. His mother was in town, and she had prepared a whole bunch of Indian dishes. Since he was accustomed to eating with his fingers, he didn't have a drawer full of forks and spoons--just a small stack of plastic ware from takeout bags. Since there weren't enough plastic spoons to go around, I ate with my fingers, just like he and his mother did. I didn't consider eating with my fingers to be a sensory experience the way Pi describes it, I just viewed it as an alternate method like chopstix. Some of my colleagues were afraid to even try eating Indian food with their fingers, despite their normal behavior of eating spicy chicken wings as finger food nearly every Thursday night when they went out for wings-n-beer. Table etiquette is one of those bizarre social constructs that I've never quite understood. A whole bunch of rules govern which fork you use and which direction you point the fork while cutting your meat. Though the etiquette rules rarely have a modern functional reason, we are still expected to learn them and use them in formal situations. (A little like professing women who all wear skirts to Sunday meeting in most countries.) |
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Post by placid-void on Jun 14, 2012 19:02:16 GMT -5
(A little like professing women who all wear skirts to Sunday meeting in most countries.)  |
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 14, 2012 21:04:30 GMT -5
I was delighted with the whole part of the different religions! That was my favorite part of the book as well. I especially enjoyed learning about the romanticized versions of Islam and Hinduism. |
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Post by sacerdotal on Jun 14, 2012 21:06:06 GMT -5
Did this passage touch a nerve with anyone? I think that we, as adults, for the sake of uniformity, take a little of the joy out of life because we are afraid of what others will think about us. I really felt compassion for Pi during this episode. The first time I went to an Indian restaurant in Canada I used my fingers. The waiter looked at me critically and said, "Fresh off the boat, are you?" I blanched. My fingers, which a second before had been taste buds savouring the food a little ahead of my mouth, became dirty under his gaze. They froze like criminals caught in the act. I didn't dare lick them. I wiped them guiltily on my napkin. He had no idea how deeply those words wounded me. They were like nails being driven into my flesh. I picked up the knife and fork. I had hardly ever used such instruments. My hands trembled. My sambar lost its taste.
Martel, Yann (2002-06-04). Life of Pi (p. 7). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition. This passage actually brought to mind a number of food culture episodes I've experienced in my life. In college, I attended an Oxfam Hunger Banquet where I was assigned to the "poor" section. (The upper tier got a beautiful plated entree, the middle tier got plates & forks with some rice & beans, and the poor tier got paper bowls and a little rice.) One of my classmates showed me how to eat rice out of the paper bowl with my fingers since we didn't get any utensils. It's easier when you use the proper technique. Several years later, a work colleague invited a few people to his apartment for lunch. His mother was in town, and she had prepared a whole bunch of Indian dishes. Since he was accustomed to eating with his fingers, he didn't have a drawer full of forks and spoons--just a small stack of plastic ware from takeout bags. Since there weren't enough plastic spoons to go around, I ate with my fingers, just like he and his mother did. I didn't consider eating with my fingers to be a sensory experience the way Pi describes it, I just viewed it as an alternate method like chopstix. Some of my colleagues were afraid to even try eating Indian food with their fingers, despite their normal behavior of eating spicy chicken wings as finger food nearly every Thursday night when they went out for wings-n-beer. Table etiquette is one of those bizarre social constructs that I've never quite understood. A whole bunch of rules govern which fork you use and which direction you point the fork while cutting your meat. Though the etiquette rules rarely have a modern functional reason, we are still expected to learn them and use them in formal situations. (A little like professing women who all wear skirts to Sunday meeting in most countries.) The Oxfam hunger banquet sounds fascinating. |
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Post by placid-void on Jun 15, 2012 11:26:11 GMT -5
Enjoyed the book.
I was easily able to relate to the sense of awe, the curiosity, and the respect for all things great and small that carried through the entire story. In this regard the story was actually inspirational to me. There were many instances where Pi expressed wonderment and appreciation of individuals and circumstances that caused him great fear and anxiety and that he knew were well beyond his control. His curiosity appears boundless and yet his appetites appear bounded by compassion and humility. In all of these elements the story was instructional for me.
I have been somewhat intrigued by the questions posed in the OP. I wonder some about the “ability to relate”. The question “Were you able to relate to this story . . . . .?” raises in my mind a complementary question as to “Under what circumstances would you be unable to relate?” It seems to me that at some level there must always be some basis for connection with the world around us (real and imagined), some basis for us to “relate” to “other”. At its most basic level, I wonder if that connection is not “love”. Isn’t that the essential message of Christianity (and perhaps all other social constructs, religious and otherwise)?
To illustrate the point, I have struggled mightily since September 11, 2001 to “relate” to the Muslim faith. In all honesty I have been unsuccessful. I simply cannot grasp the essential organizing principles of the religion. And yet on another level, I can relate to Muslims, not as Muslims, but as people, as individuals, just like myself who have hopes, dreams, needs, aspirations and expectations. In this regard I can relate to them. At this stage the “connection” is neither deep nor strong, only present. The strength and depth of a connection once formed is determined solely by the amount of effort exerted to nourish the bond. (Witness Pi's relationship with Richard Parker).
It is of interest that so many have picked-up and commented on the scene describing the “three advisors”. I also found that scene interesting and provocative. Equally profound for me was the description of the interior of Pi’s home in Canada and the careful placement of each symbol of each religious practice throughout this home. As I read this section I thought of Pi not so much as a committed religious man, but rather as an agnostic. The decoration of his home seemed to speak not of his spiritual certainty but rather of his acceptance of his inability to “know” the “right path” and therefore to acknowledge “all paths”.
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