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Post by spiders on Jun 5, 2012 6:43:14 GMT -5
Seems NZ gets a worker with intestinal fortitude. I didnt hear any of this stuff (re: special mtgs sermon on TMB) at the special mtg I attended in Tassie!!!!!!!!!!!! Just a few ambiguous bits that could have meant anything really. I think the workers in Vic/Tas should take notice to what Graham said in NZ. It is disappointing that they have not seen fit to say anything about CSA at the special meetings or conventions in the last two years. When the workers are open and honest with people it will strengthen the fellowship......instead the opposite is the case in Vic/Tas where disillusion with the workers is growing. How about taking a leak out of GT's book........don't let us be upstaged by our friends across the Tasman ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2012 17:44:40 GMT -5
How about taking a leak out of GT's book........don't let us be upstaged by our friends across the Tasman I think if anyone wants to take a leak, they should just get on with it - no need to refer it. |
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Post by ranman77OO7 on Jun 19, 2012 17:50:15 GMT -5
How about taking a leak out of GT's book........don't let us be upstaged by our friends across the Tasman I think if anyone wants to take a leak, they should just get on with it - no need to refer it. hahaha... |
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Post by sharonw on Jun 26, 2012 17:05:35 GMT -5
:-XI was told that a lot of mtg people have lost a lot of TRUST in the WORKERS and the FRIENDS. This church was started by man not by god!!! I would not trust my children near the workers male or female, or the friends. Its there now, that doubt, of what could happen!!! I was recently told of the outbreak of SHINGLES, a nerve condition that is very painful, going through the friends all over Australia. No wonder!!! I have heard that in QLD many of the friends are having nervous breakdowns!!!!  Sheesh! How close do those professees get together down there where a Shingles outbreak is on the make>? Seems normally people with shingles are too sick or have so much pain that they're not usually wanting to get skin to skin with someone else. Or be touching someone else's blisters! |
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Post by pauper on Jun 28, 2012 3:07:02 GMT -5
I wouldn't put it past them. Look at the letter that Leslie White wrote.....and now he is lying!!!!! The 2x2s that I know believe that he has been falsely accused and that "THEIR WAY" is being attacked and persecuted. They are suffering for the "kingdoms sake." I know for a fact now.....they really would follow Jim Jones and drink the Kool-Aid. WOW! I hope this will not stop people from coming forward. This is the tip of the icebert. How ironic (or maybe just fitting) that you mentioned Jim Jones and his followers. When I as still going to meeting, long before I had any inkling about the scandalous behaviors within the ministry, I began to think about the People's Temple and to understand how something like that could happen. It was clear then that there was collusion between certain of the friends and workers. The church's doctrine changed since I first started to meetings; scriptures were obviously misinterpreted, but workers (and some of the friends, too) claimed that workers had been given that authority by God. I tried to convince myself that nothing of the People's Temple magnitude would happen, but I was determined to be prepared and resistive if anything of that sort did happen. After I stopped going to meeting (learning about the CSA was the last straw for me), one of the friends called me. She was telling me about speaking on the immorality in the Catholic church and how it should be evident to people that the Catholic church wasn't right with God. I told her that the same things were going on in the 2x2 church. She asked how I knew that. When I told her about this website and others that I had been reading, she told me that I just needed to stay off the Internet.  So, there's certainly a double standard in the fellowship. It's acceptable to point out the flaws of other churches to reinforce the idea that the 2x2 church is the right way, but the answer to the corruption in the 2x2 fellowship is to ignore and conceal it.  If anyone is troubled by the misbehavior (and criminal behavior) among the workers and select friends, or if anyone simply reads a passage of scripture that someone in the fellowship finds convicting, it's labelled judging. But, the Bible's usage of the term judging implies using man's standard rather than God's, which is particularly clear in Romans 1-2. How can they not see that  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 7:25:08 GMT -5
I wouldn't put it past them. Look at the letter that Leslie White wrote.....and now he is lying!!!!! The 2x2s that I know believe that he has been falsely accused and that "THEIR WAY" is being attacked and persecuted. They are suffering for the "kingdoms sake." I know for a fact now.....they really would follow Jim Jones and drink the Kool-Aid. WOW! I hope this will not stop people from coming forward. This is the tip of the icebert. How ironic (or maybe just fitting) that you mentioned Jim Jones and his followers. When I as still going to meeting, long before I had any inkling about the scandalous behaviors within the ministry, I began to think about the People's Temple and to understand how something like that could happen. It was clear then that there was collusion between certain of the friends and workers. The church's doctrine changed since I first started to meetings; scriptures were obviously misinterpreted, but workers (and some of the friends, too) claimed that workers had been given that authority by God. I tried to convince myself that nothing of the People's Temple magnitude would happen, but I was determined to be prepared and resistive if anything of that sort did happen. After I stopped going to meeting (learning about the CSA was the last straw for me), one of the friends called me. She was telling me about speaking on the immorality in the Catholic church and how it should be evident to people that the Catholic church wasn't right with God. I told her that the same things were going on in the 2x2 church. She asked how I knew that. When I told her about this website and others that I had been reading, she told me that I just needed to stay off the Internet. So, there's certainly a double standard in the fellowship. It's acceptable to point out the flaws of other churches to reinforce the idea that the 2x2 church is the right way, but the answer to the corruption in the 2x2 fellowship is to ignore and conceal it. If anyone is troubled by the misbehavior (and criminal behavior) among the workers and select friends, or if anyone simply reads a passage of scripture that someone in the fellowship finds convicting, it's labelled judging. But, the Bible's usage of the term judging implies using man's standard rather than God's, which is particularly clear in Romans 1-2. How can they not see that It's not so much a double standard, but more like the case of the religious mother you cited in another post who refused to acknowledge that her son was even remotely capable of raping and murdering, in spite of all the evidence in front of her. It's a powerful delusion, also similar with the Jim Jones followers.....they could see no evil even though it was staring them in the face. It's a mass delusion or what I call a "cultural meme". It has the appearance of a double standard but it really isn't in most cases.....they actually believe that we are different. That's why many will defend an offender far beyond reasonableness because they believe it is not possible and it is all lies. Even when the person is convicted, it can be seen as persecution or for the more reasonable people, a case of "he/she was never really one of us". The denials of reality are nothing short of an amazing phenomena. I heard in meeting this week a broadbrushed list of (good) things "the world" is not interested in. The problem with that list is that I know many "worldly" people who are keenly interested in all of it, and would venture to say that "the world" in general admires most of that list whether they are qualities they possess or not. It's a delusional perspective designed to justify "the way" as being the only right way on earth, having the sole access to God. |
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Post by snow on Jun 28, 2012 17:16:21 GMT -5
In most cases, it's about human nature. We are reluctant to see the dirt in our own lives because it is fearful. It's okay and safe to point out others deficits and faults, but unsafe to recognize we too could have those problems. I think people at some level do realize that it they really are only one step away from being in similar situations and that is scary. It's easier to deny and point fingers all the time hoping it won't happen to us.
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Post by swarupa on Feb 8, 2013 14:03:41 GMT -5
those who dont report abusers are abusers themselves
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Post by catgirl on Feb 8, 2013 20:38:16 GMT -5
those who dont report abusers are abusers themselves I agree!!! Those who cover up and protect or move the abusers on, are just as criminal as the perpetrator and should be punished as well. Mandatory reporting needs to be introduced in all states to have a uniform approach to begin to deal with CSA properly. |
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Post by brissiegirl on Feb 10, 2013 5:49:04 GMT -5
Hey catgirl, you not down in eb territory by any chance?
Hear on the grapevine he's doing the rounds visiting the friends again. Not getting near any little children I would hope!
What's he up to? what's going on down there, they got their rocks in their heads??
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Post by catgirl on Feb 10, 2013 20:20:46 GMT -5
Hey catgirl, you not down in eb territory by any chance? Hear on the grapevine he's doing the rounds visiting the friends again. Not getting near any little children I would hope! What's he up to? what's going on down there, they got their rocks in their heads?? Oh yeah !!! you heard right !!!! Rocks in ther heads? No brains I reckon. When will people see the criminal side to CSA and react accordingly??? In my profession, if a perp is discovered, there is no coverup, no reinstatement. !!!!!! |
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Post by Kitten slippers on Feb 12, 2013 19:14:48 GMT -5
Wouldnt want to come near our house or he would be 2 stone lighter  |
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Post by rational on Feb 18, 2013 17:10:49 GMT -5
Perhaps we could learn from some of the values espoused by the Promise Keepers Movement. Excellent idea. According to promise keepers the role of women is to submit to their teachers and professors - even if women know they are wrong. It is then in God's hands. Men should keep their daughters and wives subservient. But with ministers like Gary Busey how far wrong could things go? |
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Post by fixit on Feb 20, 2013 4:15:49 GMT -5
Perhaps we could learn from some of the values espoused by the Promise Keepers Movement. Excellent idea. According to promise keepers the role of women is to submit to their teachers and professors - even if women know they are wrong. It is then in God's hands. Men should keep their daughters and wives subservient. But with ministers like Gary Busey how far wrong could things go? That's not what the seven promises say: BeliefsThe core beliefs of the Promise Keepers, outlined in the Seven Promises, consist of the following: A Promise Keeper is committed to honoring Jesus Christ through worship, prayer and obedience to God's Word in the power of the Holy Spirit. A Promise Keeper is committed to pursuing vital relationships with a few other men, understanding that he needs brothers to help him keep his promises. A Promise Keeper is committed to practising spiritual, moral, ethical and sexual purity. A Promise Keeper is committed to building strong marriages and families through love, protection and Biblical values. A Promise Keeper is committed to supporting the mission of his church by honoring and praying for his pastor and by actively giving his time and resources. A Promise Keeper is committed to reaching beyond any racial and denominational barriers to demonstrate the power of Biblical unity. A Promise Keeper is committed to influencing his world, being obedient to the Great Commandment (Mark 12:30-31) and the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promise_Keepers |
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 20, 2013 4:36:51 GMT -5
Excellent idea. According to promise keepers the role of women is to submit to their teachers and professors - even if women know they are wrong. It is then in God's hands. Men should keep their daughters and wives subservient. But with ministers like Gary Busey how far wrong could things go? That's not what the seven promises say: BeliefsThe core beliefs of the Promise Keepers, outlined in the Seven Promises, consist of the following: A Promise Keeper is committed to honoring Jesus Christ through worship, prayer and obedience to God's Word in the power of the Holy Spirit. A Promise Keeper is committed to pursuing vital relationships with a few other men, understanding that he needs brothers to help him keep his promises. A Promise Keeper is committed to practising spiritual, moral, ethical and sexual purity. A Promise Keeper is committed to building strong marriages and families through love, protection and Biblical values. A Promise Keeper is committed to supporting the mission of his church by honoring and praying for his pastor and by actively giving his time and resources. A Promise Keeper is committed to reaching beyond any racial and denominational barriers to demonstrate the power of Biblical unity. A Promise Keeper is committed to influencing his world, being obedient to the Great Commandment (Mark 12:30-31) and the Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promise_Keepers
Criticism
The National Organization for Women (NOW), an American feminist organization, has expressed the view that the Promise Keepers pose a threat to women's rights. NOW alleges that the group encourages inequality within marriages and teaches a doctrine of male superiority.[3]
According to Amy Schindler, "the discourse of masculinity found within conservative religious movements, such as the Promise Keepers and the Victorian era movement 'muscular Christianity,' is inherently political.
Any masculinity project aimed at restoring or reclaiming a 'traditional' male role for privileged white, heterosexual males has a political impact within the tapestry of class, race, and gender power."[4] Academic Browyn Kara Conrad argues that the organization reproduces problematic sexual scripts such as the Madonna/lady view of female sexuality and a view of the male sex drive as uncontrollable.[5]
The group was also criticized for doctrinal compromises and inconsistent doctrines.
Dr. Raymond Hartwig, president of the South Dakota district of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, commented: "They use the Bible in a very simplistic form, as a springboard to jump into the law.'"[6]
The owner of the Tampa strip club 2001 Odyssey in Florida said that while attending a nearby conference several years prior, a number of Promise Keepers visited his club: "We had phenomenal numbers all weekend, and they walked in wearing badges and name tags and weren�t shy at all."[7] |
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Post by rational on Feb 22, 2013 9:20:54 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Feb 22, 2013 23:10:51 GMT -5
I was looking at the concept of openly declaring that we will live chaste and godly lives.
Professing such things doesn't guarantee the reality, of course.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 23, 2013 0:48:57 GMT -5
I was looking at the concept of openly declaring that we will live chaste and godly lives. Professing such things doesn't guarantee the reality, of course.
That alone should tell you something about the type of "godliness" that Promise Keepers espouse.
Not even Paul had that severe in restrictions on women! |
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Post by fixit on Feb 23, 2013 4:19:18 GMT -5
It's sort of like restricting men from the Women's Christian Temperance Union.
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If anyone is troubled by the misbehavior (and criminal behavior) among the workers and select friends, or if anyone simply reads a passage of scripture that someone in the fellowship finds convicting, it's labelled judging. But, the Bible's usage of the term judging implies using man's standard rather than God's, which is particularly clear in Romans 1-2. How can they not see that 
