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Post by Scott Ross on May 22, 2012 17:51:43 GMT -5
The following is an email that was sent out to a lot of workers and friends recently. It was sent to me today, and I thought it would be worth posting here for all to read. I have no idea who the author of this is.
I broke it into segments to make it easier to read.
To the Workers & Friends who should know the truth,
I am writing this letter to a number of workers & friends who have not been told the truth regarding many child sexual assault violators in our fellowship, the latest one being in VIC. The fact that this worker (now ex worker) is being regarded as a hero by some of his colleagues & some of the friends, saying “it’s a miracle he has the spirit he has after all he has been through” is hardly what should be believed about someone who has been charged, convicted & found guilty on Child Sexual Assault (CSA) offences.
It is said amongst the friends that he was hired a high profile lawyer to get him off. I don’t believe this is the Christian way. If he was to show repentance & the spirit of a person who is so sorry for his action, he would accept the punishment. Particularly when he admitted to the overseers of both VIC and WA that there are other victims, but only 1 brave soul was willing to come forward & have him charged. We hear of others who wanted to come forward, but apparently changed their minds after visits from those in authority.
In the world there is a saying ‘do the crime, do the time ’. Apparently some in the fellowship & some senior workers in particular don’t think like that, they think we, as Gods children, are above the law of this land. We are not.
Until the overseers are willing to advise all workers, also those friends in the fellowship, the dangers and complete unacceptability of CSA in God’s way, these crimes will continue. Believe me, there are many violators, a lot more than you would like to believe among our fellowship, both workers and amongst the friends.
I am sure Jesus didn’t want anyone to take advantage of children who couldn’t defend themselves & then pass it off as ‘sins of the flesh’. If this is what the overseers & those in authority want us to believe, I am sure you must want to question if we are following the path that Jesus trod.
If you were to put yourself in the shoes of a victim for just one day, who was violated by someone they were taught to trust without question, I am sure your attitude would change. The damage & pain CSA causes to the victim & their families is beyond comprehension if you haven’t experienced it.
Obviously I cannot reveal my identity at this stage as there would be serious repercussions to me if my name is revealed. But believe me, there are many men who I know in our fellowship who think as I do.
Some of these men are husbands and brothers of victims of CSA at the hands of trusted workers. There are many women too, victims and friends of victims, who all talk amongst themselves and know the truth.
In God’s time I am sure that there will be many people who will stand up for what is right, & will not fear how they will be treated if they make a stand. This will take time, but you need to know there are a lot of friends who are very unhappy with the way CSA is being (mis)handled by those in authority.
Perhaps a verse from JEREMIAH 5:31 is appropriate. The prophets prophesy falsely, & the priests bear rule by their means; & my people love to have it so, & what will you do in the end thereof?
We, as ‘Gods people’ seem to have become so taken up by every word the workers say we take it as the Gospel truth, if it is right or wrong. Sadly, in recent days it is often their words, not God’s.
Not all Gods servants have this attitude. BUT – until they are willing to take a stand against CSA, HOW DO WE KNOW who is for or against this extremely serious disease that has crept into God’s way. We are no different from any other church if these things are hidden. If you are a worker, please share this email with your companion. He/She may not have received it.
Husbands, Wives, please don’t just discard this. Think what would happen if one of your children was molested by someone you trust? What would you do? It IS happening & it must stop.
There is another reason why it is important that you as workers – leaders in our fellowship – are impeccable in how you treat this issue of CSA, not just by God’s law but also according to the laws of our land.
In Victoria in April 2012, the Victorian Coalition Government announced the establishment of a Parliamentary inquiry into matters relating to the handling of alleged criminal abuse of children by religious and other organisations. It is hard to see that this inquiry will not investigate CSA within our fellowship.
The inquiry will have broad terms of reference to consider the practices, policies and protocols of religious and other non-government organisations for the handling of allegations of criminal abuse of children by personnel within their organisations.
The terms of reference for the inquiry are as follows:
The Family and Community Development Committee is requested to inquire into, consider and report to the Parliament on the processes by which religious and other non-government organisations respond to the criminal abuse of children by personnel within their organisations, including:
1. the practices, policies and protocols in such organisations for the handling of allegations of criminal abuse of children, including measures put in place by various organisations in response to concerns about such abuse within the organisation or the potential for such abuse to occur;
2. whether there are systemic practices in such organisations that operate to preclude or discourage the reporting of suspected criminal abuse of children to State authorities; and
3. whether changes to law or to practices, policies and protocols in such organisations are required to help prevent criminal abuse of children by personnel in such organisations and to deal with allegations of such abuse.
In undertaking the inquiry, the Committee should be mindful of not encroaching upon the responsibilities of investigatory agencies or the courts in relation to particular cases or prejudicing the conduct or outcome of investigations or court proceedings.
The Committee is requested to report to the Parliament no later than 30 April 2013.
I trust you will search your hearts and God’s word for how you should react to the issues that I have raised in this open letter. (please feel free to pass it on) Because these are issues that are of deep concern to so many amongst the friends. They are also issues that undoubtedly grieve the heart of holy God.
Yours in a spirit of hope for the future of our fellowship, One of many concerned friends. May 2012
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Post by Greg on May 22, 2012 18:30:51 GMT -5
I guess the hope is that a lot of anonymous F&W and some known XF&W will persuade other anonymous people in power to get something done.
Might work.
Better'n nothin'.
But that is part of the message I get from the anonymous. "I want something done, but I do not want my name known because I might suffer negative consequences. Yet some of you in power need to be up front and personal and risk the same."
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2012 19:07:23 GMT -5
I guess the hope is that a lot of anonymous F&W and some known XF&W will persuade other anonymous people in power to get something done. Might work. Better'n nothin'. But that is part of the message I get from the anonymous. "I want something done, but I do not want my name known because I might suffer negative consequences. Yet some of you in power need to be up front and personal and risk the same." Discretion is the better part of valour. I suspect that the moment this man sees any sign of a willingness by any local leaders of the fellowship to properly address this issue, he will stand out front and center. Why should he get knocked off by unknown sources in private before he can really do something in public?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2012 21:35:23 GMT -5
Scott, just a small point, but after reading that letter, I was unable to come to the conclusion that it was written by a man. It could have been written by a woman. You may have information that we are not privy to. Maybe the thread should have been "Re: Letter sent out by concerned professing person".
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2012 22:52:55 GMT -5
Scott, just a small point, but after reading that letter, I was unable to come to the conclusion that it was written by a man. It could have been written by a woman. You may have information that we are not privy to. Maybe the thread should have been "Re: Letter sent out by concerned professing person". Here is how I would conclude this came from a man: "Obviously I cannot reveal my identity at this stage as there would be serious repercussions to me if my name is revealed. But believe me, there are many men who I know in our fellowship who think as I do.
Some of these men are husbands and brothers of victims of CSA at the hands of trusted workers. There are many women too, victims and friends of victims, who all talk amongst themselves and know the truth."It's not proof that this is a man writing it, but the writer clearly identifies with men first, women second.
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Post by emmarr75 on May 22, 2012 23:13:58 GMT -5
This is a well thought out letter. I find it sad that the author is not prepared to give his name, but understandable. Hopefully the publishing the letter here will draw out more concerned friends in Victoria and, together, they can develop the necessary protocols that will withstand public scrutiny. Of course, it must be also said, it is also necessary to follow the protocols once they are developed and jointly agreed upon
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Post by Angelina Mouse on May 23, 2012 8:46:54 GMT -5
Hi Em, Would you be able to put something on a thread about Jack Phillips. I had heard he had passed away recently. People on there still asking, and someone thought he might have been a kiwi. Obviously thinking of a different Jack. Wondered if you had any news of him. Thanks, Mousie.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2012 22:14:17 GMT -5
Congratulations to the writer of this letter,either male or female. You have been honest and forthright, and we like you pray that it will bear fruit. As ex Victorians we know that the culture is protect the "Truth". Maybe it is time to tell the truth. Some of us ex's have had some very worthwhile Christian experiences, and would be willing to help if asked. God bless the writer of that letter. It is sad that they have to remain anonymous, but they would be aware if they are found , they will be excommunicated.
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Post by emmarr75 on May 23, 2012 22:35:23 GMT -5
Hi Ange
I had heard through the grapevine that Jack has passed away. Not sure of any other details - was hoping some-one else more in the loop was prepared to share.
Em
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Post by JO on May 24, 2012 21:08:48 GMT -5
"...only 1 brave soul was willing to come forward & have him charged. We hear of others who wanted to come forward, but apparently changed their minds after visits from those in authority."
This is a bad look for the church. If secular authorities substantiate this allegation - that victims were talked out of coming forward - would there be a legal case to answer in Victoria and Western Australia?
Its a moral issue for sure. Victims have suppressed this for many years and it will remain a festering wound until its properly addressed.
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Post by JO on May 24, 2012 23:22:12 GMT -5
"The fact that this worker (now ex worker) is being regarded as a hero by some of his colleagues & some of the friends, saying “it’s a miracle he has the spirit he has after all he has been through” is hardly what should be believed about someone who has been charged, convicted & found guilty on Child Sexual Assault (CSA) offences."
This seems to be re-victimising the victim by suggesting this poor worker was unjustly accused and convicted.
Its clear from this that the church has a long way to go with respect to educating ourselves on child sexual abuse.
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Post by Secret Room on May 24, 2012 23:52:48 GMT -5
Well I was notified by one of the friends that the man in VIC, was unjustly convicted of something he didn't do. I was told that a bitter outsider, wanted to make it up and that it never happened. I was horrified that so many of the friends that are in different states in Australia believe that CSA is not happening and has never happened. A lot of people still believe that this man is a hero. And that the victims are just bitter twisted people that want revenge because they have left the precious truth. Only the workers can be blinding people to the truth. People hear about CSA but believe that it does not and will not effect there wonderful only true way. I was recently talking about a man who was devout all his life, read his bible and prayed every day and had a wonderful fellowship with GOD and sadly passed away. I asked one of the friends, who is to say that man does not have eternal life? I was told the answer of that, the man never reached eternal life. !!! Because he was of a different faith and he had wasted his life. Apparently this god of the 2x2s is exclusive only. Yeah right!! There is one god and one Jesus for all. Who are we to judge??!!! The last time I knew was that GOD is the judge. I believe that there are many blinded people in the Truth, who will never fully understand. I feel sorry for the very small minded friends and workers
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Post by QLD GIRL on May 25, 2012 0:02:22 GMT -5
:-XI was told that a lot of mtg people have lost a lot of TRUST in the WORKERS and the FRIENDS. This church was started by man not by god!!! I would not trust my children near the workers male or female, or the friends. Its there now, that doubt, of what could happen!!! I was recently told of the outbreak of SHINGLES, a nerve condition that is very painful, going through the friends all over Australia. No wonder!!! I have heard that in QLD many of the friends are having nervous breakdowns!!!!
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Post by Ex Southerner on May 25, 2012 1:29:44 GMT -5
In reply to Qld Girl
You have probably heard how a supposedly factual story starts off with perhaps a grain of truth, and after being told from one to another and another etc the story is so far from the truth, and yet some unknowingly would believe it.
You mentioned "I was told, I have heard"
The best thing is NOT to pass on what you have heard , just listen and say nothing and some day the Truth will be revealed.
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Post by QLD GIRL on May 25, 2012 3:05:35 GMT -5
Yes but I have sat and heard and listened for over ten years and it is the same lies, not truth. HOW MUCH LONGER SHOULD I SIT AND WAIT FOR THE TRUTH, WITHOUT SPEAKING. IS THAT THE BEST YOU CAN DO FOR A CONFUSED PERSON? ??
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Post by catgirl on May 25, 2012 5:01:57 GMT -5
In reply to Qld Girl You have probably heard how a supposedly factual story starts off with perhaps a grain of truth, and after being told from one to another and another etc the story is so far from the truth, and yet some unknowingly would believe it. You mentioned "I was told, I have heard" The best thing is NOT to pass on what you have heard , just listen and say nothing and some day the Truth will be revealed. That's the whole problem with all this CSA stuff!!! people shut up and say nothing, they are worse than the abusers in some ways!!!. Condoning a criminal act is criminal as well. Rise up and confront these hypocritical people and remove them from the fellowship!!!
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Post by JO on May 25, 2012 16:53:41 GMT -5
In reply to Qld Girl You have probably heard how a supposedly factual story starts off with perhaps a grain of truth, and after being told from one to another and another etc the story is so far from the truth, and yet some unknowingly would believe it. You mentioned "I was told, I have heard" The best thing is NOT to pass on what you have heard , just listen and say nothing and some day the Truth will be revealed. That's the whole problem with all this CSA stuff!!! people shut up and say nothing, they are worse than the abusers in some ways!!!. Condoning a criminal act is criminal as well. Rise up and confront these hypocritical people and remove them from the fellowship!!! Its not so much about needing to remove people from fellowship - unless they refuse to repent and are unwilling to seek help for their problems. There definitely needs to be a change of values in the fellowship - sexually immoral people shouldn't be held in high esteem or be in positions of leadership or trust. What we are seeing is hearts that are closed to God - lacking compassion, insensitive to justice, having a limited vision. Any hypocrite can have a form of godliness and be highly respected by his peers. What the fellowship needs is a greater respect for the power of godliness that results from hearts being open to God. Workers and friends need to be open and honest with one another. Are we serving God, or serving a religious system? Unless the ministry makes a moral stand all workers will be tarred with the same brush as the morally weakest. Its not a virtue to cover for, or make excuses for, sexual immorality in the ranks. Who ever would have thought that the fellowship we love could have fallen to such depths? Perhaps we could learn from some of the values espoused by the Promise Keepers Movement. ----------------- ----------------- --------------- -------------- ------------ A Promise Keeper is committed to practising spiritual, moral, ethical and sexual purity. A Promise Keeper is committed to building strong marriages and families through love, protection and Biblical values.
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Post by Happy Feet on May 27, 2012 5:05:50 GMT -5
The Guidelines for Workers thread link to the guidelines does not work without having to sign up for it. www.csainfo.info Does one have to sign up for it? I couldn't write this on the thread as it is locked.
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Post by Brianna on May 27, 2012 6:44:20 GMT -5
In reply to Qld Girl You have probably heard how a supposedly factual story starts off with perhaps a grain of truth, and after being told from one to another and another etc the story is so far from the truth, and yet some unknowingly would believe it. You mentioned "I was told, I have heard" The best thing is NOT to pass on what you have heard , just listen and say nothing and some day the Truth will be revealed. HEYEXSOUTHERNER When it comes from the horse's mouth its right. Dont bother trying to make out its hearsay. This person says - I was told and I have heard. Well 2 different horses, actually.
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Post by mod3 on May 27, 2012 8:08:44 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 14:06:59 GMT -5
The Guidelines for Workers thread link to the guidelines does not work without having to sign up for it. www.csainfo.info Does one have to sign up for it? I couldn't write this on the thread as it is locked. That one is working now.
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Post by sharonw on May 29, 2012 16:40:15 GMT -5
"The fact that this worker (now ex worker) is being regarded as a hero by some of his colleagues & some of the friends, saying “it’s a miracle he has the spirit he has after all he has been through” is hardly what should be believed about someone who has been charged, convicted & found guilty on Child Sexual Assault (CSA) offences."This seems to be re-victimising the victim by suggesting this poor worker was unjustly accused and convicted. Its clear from this that the church has a long way to go with respect to educating ourselves on child sexual abuse. It is quite clear that "the church" and "the powers that be of that church" HAVE NOT taken one tiny step toward answering the scourge of evil that is in "the church". I'm not saying that there isn't a person here in the east US OR a person in the downunder that has not answered to the call for eradicating the scourge within the church. My whole anger against anyone who continues to think that the 2x2 fellowships "is the only true church of God" shows the exact reason of the WHY so few people within that said falsely labeled church have NOT answered the call against this scourge. This fellowship is nothing more then another manmade religion and when people start knowing that, then THEY WILL awaken to the scourge that lies all around and in them.
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Post by JO on May 30, 2012 4:58:39 GMT -5
From the letter: "We hear of others who wanted to come forward, but apparently changed their minds after visits from those in authority."Would this be considered witness tampering in Australia? I had someone contact me and ask if the sister worker had been offered money in order to keep quiet or withdraw her statement. That has not happened, and I thought that if that rumor was going around I should probably post that it was a false rumor. I am pretty sure that the overseers would NOT wish to do such a thing, nor would any member of the fellowship consider doing such a thing. Just for curiosity sake, I did a little research into what such an action would mean. It turns out that it would be a Federal crime to do such an act. In the United States, witness tampering is established as a federal crime under statute 18 U.S.C. § 1512. The statute defines witness tampering as "tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant." A person who is charged with tampering with a witness may also be charged with other crimes, such as coercion, bribery, or extortion. These related crimes can all take the form of encouraging a witness to change his or her testimony through illicit means. Each of these related crimes carries potential penalties in addition to witness tampering. I seriously doubt if Barry Barkley would allow any of the overseers under him to go about trying to get people to violate the law in regard to this incident. Boy.... that would REALLY make a scandal wouldn't it? In Virginia for example: § 18.2-441.1. Bribery of witnesses
If any person give, offer, or promise to give any money or other thing of value to anyone with intent to prevent such person from testifying as a witness in any civil or criminal proceeding or with intent to cause that person to testify falsely, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. Also in Virginia: For Class 6 felonies, the jury or court may choose imprisonment for one to five years or jail for up to 12 months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2012 5:02:30 GMT -5
From the letter: "We hear of others who wanted to come forward, but apparently changed their minds after visits from those in authority."Would this be considered witness tampering in Australia? I had someone contact me and ask if the sister worker had been offered money in order to keep quiet or withdraw her statement. That has not happened, and I thought that if that rumor was going around I should probably post that it was a false rumor. I am pretty sure that the overseers would NOT wish to do such a thing, nor would any member of the fellowship consider doing such a thing. Just for curiosity sake, I did a little research into what such an action would mean. It turns out that it would be a Federal crime to do such an act. In the United States, witness tampering is established as a federal crime under statute 18 U.S.C. § 1512. The statute defines witness tampering as "tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant." A person who is charged with tampering with a witness may also be charged with other crimes, such as coercion, bribery, or extortion. These related crimes can all take the form of encouraging a witness to change his or her testimony through illicit means. Each of these related crimes carries potential penalties in addition to witness tampering. I seriously doubt if Barry Barkley would allow any of the overseers under him to go about trying to get people to violate the law in regard to this incident. Boy.... that would REALLY make a scandal wouldn't it? In Virginia for example: § 18.2-441.1. Bribery of witnesses
If any person give, offer, or promise to give any money or other thing of value to anyone with intent to prevent such person from testifying as a witness in any civil or criminal proceeding or with intent to cause that person to testify falsely, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. Also in Virginia: For Class 6 felonies, the jury or court may choose imprisonment for one to five years or jail for up to 12 months and a fine of up to $2,500, either or both. We would need to know the precise details JO to establish the severity of it. In my view it could be an attempt to pervert the course of justice, but we need to know the details and exactly what was said etc.
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Post by TRUTHTELLER on May 30, 2012 11:31:42 GMT -5
I had someone contact me and ask if the sister worker had been offered money in order to keep quiet or withdraw her statement. That has not happened, and I thought that if that rumor was going around I should probably post that it was a false rumor. I am pretty sure that the overseers would NOT wish to do such a thing, nor would any member of the fellowship consider doing such a thing. Just for curiosity sake, I did a little research into what such an action would mean. It turns out that it would be a Federal crime to do such an act. In the United States, witness tampering is established as a federal crime under statute 18 U.S.C. § 1512. I seriously doubt if Barry Barkley would allow any of the overseers under him to go about trying to get people to violate the law in regard to this incident.
Boy.... that would REALLY make a scandal wouldn't it?
[/quote] I wouldn't put it past them. Look at the letter that Leslie White wrote.....and now he is lying!!!!! The 2x2s that I know believe that he has been falsely accused and that "THEIR WAY" is being attacked and persecuted. They are suffering for the "kingdoms sake." I know for a fact now.....they really would follow Jim Jones and drink the Kool-Aid. WOW! I hope this will not stop people from coming forward. This is the tip of the icebert.
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on May 30, 2012 11:40:25 GMT -5
I had someone contact me and ask if the sister worker had been offered money in order to keep quiet or withdraw her statement. That has not happened, and I thought that if that rumor was going around I should probably post that it was a false rumor. I am pretty sure that the overseers would NOT wish to do such a thing, nor would any member of the fellowship consider doing such a thing. Just for curiosity sake, I did a little research into what such an action would mean. It turns out that it would be a Federal crime to do such an act. In the United States, witness tampering is established as a federal crime under statute 18 U.S.C. § 1512. I seriously doubt if Barry Barkley would allow any of the overseers under him to go about trying to get people to violate the law in regard to this incident.
Boy.... that would REALLY make a scandal wouldn't it?
I wouldn't put it past them. Look at the letter that Leslie White wrote.....and now he is lying!!!!! The 2x2s that I know believe that he has been falsely accused and that "THEIR WAY" is being attacked and persecuted. They are suffering for the "kingdoms sake." I know for a fact now.....they really would follow Jim Jones and drink the Kool-Aid. WOW! I hope this will not stop people from coming forward. This is the tip of the icebert. [/quote] Your wrong,not all believe he is falsely accused. Those who asked him to leave don't believe he was falsely accused.
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Post by TRUTHTELLER on May 30, 2012 11:53:03 GMT -5
I wouldn't put it past them. Look at the letter that Leslie White wrote.....and now he is lying!!!!! The 2x2s that I know believe that he has been falsely accused and that "THEIR WAY" is being attacked and persecuted. They are suffering for the "kingdoms sake." I know for a fact now.....they really would follow Jim Jones and drink the Kool-Aid. WOW! I hope this will not stop people from coming forward. This is the tip of the icebert. Your wrong,not all believe he is falsely accused. Those who asked him to leave don't believe he was falsely accused.[/quote] READ THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUTTA MY MOUTH!!!!! I plainly said---"The 2x2s that I know" I DID NOT SAY "ALL" Now you are WRONG...........
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Post by Brianna on Jun 5, 2012 0:07:12 GMT -5
Seems NZ gets a worker with intestinal fortitude. I didnt hear any of this stuff (re: special mtgs sermon on TMB) at the special mtg I attended in Tassie!!!!!!!!!!!! Just a few ambiguous bits that could have meant anything really.
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