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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 27, 2012 16:39:04 GMT -5
It is my belief that the old ways of doing business are no longer viable in the fellowship known as The Truth. And by that, I mean the controlling of the information by the workers via their bullying of the friends and scare tactics.
Consider what the Church of Scientology learned: For Miscavige, who'd spent most of the past twenty years deftly shifting the spotlight away from the scandals that dogged the church, the sheer glut of negative information about Scientology now through a simple Google search was disastrous. Nothing the leader had previously dreamed up, certainly no weapon in his legal arsenal, could counter the deluge of data—scanned copies of L. Ron Hubbard's handwritten OT 3 materials, for example—that was spreading across the Internet. At gatherings of the flock, Miscavige beseeched his followers to beware of the "lies" posted in cyberspace. Reitman, Janet (2011-06-13). Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion (p. 285). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.
Sound familiar? Some misguided workers have been warning the "gatherings of the flock" for years about the "lies"/poison- first of the books and now internet sites such as this one.
I have seen mostly truthful accounts published- it is odd to me that some workers would refer to truth as a poison.
But the real damage to the fellowship by these truthful internet accounts/horror stories isn't losing current members- it is in the harm that it causes to the bringing in of new members.
And even if members did avoid reading such criticism, nothing prevented other people—the potential recruits that the church so badly needed—from discovering these unsavory reports when they researched Scientology. Negative stories posted on the Internet dealt a particularly devastating blow to the church because they reached young people under the age of thirty—the population whose idealism, and had built the church in the first place. Reitman, Janet (2011-06-13). Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion (p. 286). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.
The workers AS RECENTLY AS THE PAST CONVENTION ROUNDS IN THE UNITED STATES were warning against posting even truthful information on the internet about the workers- as if this was causing harm! If the overseers would simply HUMBLY deal with the issues without resorting to bullying and other unsavory tactics- I am confident that the issues wouldn't make it to the internet- or at least at a much slower rate.
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shushy
Royal Member
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Post by shushy on Mar 27, 2012 19:52:46 GMT -5
It is my belief that the old ways of doing business are no longer viable in the fellowship known as The Truth. And by that, I mean the controlling of the information by the workers via bullying and scare tactics. Consider what the Church of Scientology learned: For Miscavige, who'd spent most of the past twenty years deftly shifting the spotlight away from the scandals that dogged the church, the sheer glut of negative information about Scientology now through a simple Google search was disastrous. Nothing the leader had previously dreamed up, certainly no weapon in his legal arsenal, could counter the deluge of data—scanned copies of L. Ron Hubbard's handwritten OT 3 materials, for example—that was spreading across the Internet. At gatherings of the flock, Miscavige beseeched his followers to beware of the "lies" posted in cyberspace.Reitman, Janet (2011-06-13). Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion (p. 285). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition. Sound familiar? Some misguided workers have been warning the "gatherings of the flock" for years about the "lies"/poison- first of the books and now internet sites such as this one. Yes it sounds familiar. After we left, some leaflets were posted to the friends regarding the lies about its foundation. 20Years later my Mum told me that my husband and I had been blamed for distribution..I remember laughing, I didnt mind the accusation, we were innocent but a close friend wasnt. Dont you think the fact that the workers want to protect and cover themselves is suspicious in itself?Z bought up all the 'secret sect' books from the christian stores. They certainly went to great lengths to cover something up that they werent comfortable with.I have seen mostly truthful accounts published- it is odd to me that some workers would refer to truth as a poison. Maybe they dont know the truth. But the real damage to the fellowship by these truthful internet accounts/horror stories isn't losing current members- it is in the harm that it causes to the bringing in of new members.The religion of the f&w while it can be all encompassing to those inside and a comfort to them, I hope and pray that they keep searching for the real truth of what our existence is all about. And even if members did avoid reading such criticism, nothing prevented other people—the potential recruits that the church so badly needed—from discovering these unsavory reports when they researched Scientology. Negative stories posted on the Internet dealt a particularly devastating blow to the church because they reached young people under the age of thirty—the population whose idealism, and had built the church in the first place.Reitman, Janet (2011-06-13). Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion (p. 286). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition. Religion has produced a lot of evil...lets be honest. Much good has also been done in the name of christianity but evil should never have evolved from a system of belief that promotes a higher power/force as its God. Especially within the leadership of churches. Something is horribly wrong.The workers AS RECENTLY AS THE PAST CONVENTION ROUNDS IN THE UNITED STATES were warning against posting even truthful information on the internet about the workers- as if this was causing harm! If the overseers would simply HUMBLY deal with the issues without resorting to bullying and other unsavory tactics- I am confident that the issues wouldn't make it to the internet- or at least at a much slower rate. Not true...they shouldnt be concerned with things that are true. They should be concerned about lies or slander. They cant control people these days the way they could in the past. In one sense the net has brought some freedom of speach.
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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 28, 2012 8:31:29 GMT -5
Not true...they shouldnt be concerned with things that are true. They should be concerned about lies or slander. They cant control people these days the way they could in the past. In one sense the net has brought some freedom of speach. Thanks, Shushy. That is exactly my point.
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Post by quizzer on Mar 28, 2012 11:05:58 GMT -5
I find it interesting that proper professing folks believe that scandals should be dealt with quietly, in hushed tones, around the "right" people. At the same time, anyone concerned with the scandal can usually google the info within seconds.
The scandals are problems, yes. However, in refusing to openly communicate the issues and deal with them effectively, the problem triples.
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Post by sharonw on Mar 28, 2012 11:35:16 GMT -5
I think what has happened from day 1 of the fellowship's life that there have been workers that got by with their crimes and then others see that they've gotten by, so the problem has multiplied, but all those guilty have been well covered for by their peers...it's a vicious cycle...a worker committs a crime, his peers cover it up for him and move him around and eventually move him into overseership, then it's not long where another worker having seen how the first one got by and was well protected by his peers, tries a similiar thing and sure enough his peers cover that up for him and move him around.
It goes around and around, and until the workers in power are ready to admit to what has been covered up, even IF it is on themselves, they need to face it now....for it will be much WORSE on Judgment Day!
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Post by kencoolidge on Mar 28, 2012 11:39:12 GMT -5
God is interested in tranparency using todays nomenclature. If the workers were transparent and not secretive then God could bring an honesty to the F&Ws and renewal of the right spirit. Without that they only are describing the kingdom from the outside which is only a description whereas they could be describing it from the inside and the reality of possesing
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guilt
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Post by guilt on Mar 28, 2012 13:45:57 GMT -5
I But the real damage to the fellowship by these truthful internet accounts/horror stories isn't losing current members- it is in the harm that it causes to the bringing in of new members. What's the difference? Those who have left already understand the fallacies involved. Those considering 'joining' who have been turned off have just saved themselves a bunch of headaches.
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Post by kencoolidge on Mar 28, 2012 14:08:39 GMT -5
I But the real damage to the fellowship by these truthful internet accounts/horror stories isn't losing current members- it is in the harm that it causes to the bringing in of new members. What's the difference? Those who have left already understand the fallacies involved. Those considering 'joining' who have been turned off have just saved themselves a bunch of headaches. guilt 2 significant reasons to repent and correct incorrect doctrine. Better late than never. The fellowship could be so much more than it is under current tradition. It keeps God in a Box and denies the freedom that is in Christ ken
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guilt
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Post by guilt on Mar 28, 2012 14:16:15 GMT -5
Well I think I would agree with you ken. But tell that to the WORKERS. Instant SHUT-DOWN.
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Post by quizzer on Mar 28, 2012 14:38:03 GMT -5
I think what has happened from day 1 of the fellowship's life that there have been workers that got by with their crimes and then others see that they've gotten by, so the problem has multiplied, but all those guilty have been well covered for by their peers...it's a vicious cycle...a worker committs a crime, his peers cover it up for him and move him around and eventually move him into overseership, then it's not long where another worker having seen how the first one got by and was well protected by his peers, tries a similiar thing and sure enough his peers cover that up for him and move him around. It goes around and around, and until the workers in power are ready to admit to what has been covered up, even IF it is on themselves, they need to face it now....for it will be much WORSE on Judgment Day! I'm with you on this, sharonw. However, I sometimes wonder if, by letting some workers get by with their crimes, other workers weren't tempted to try this crime out for themselves. If there is no penalty for hurting another person, and you'll be protected no-matter-what, why wouldn't you try stuff out from time to time?
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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 28, 2012 15:17:13 GMT -5
The scandals are problems, yes. However, in refusing to openly communicate the issues and deal with them effectively, the problem triples. +1. The problem more then triples. . . if the workers would simply deal with the problems in an honest, open, manner- no matter in how it makes the ministry look. . . then the problems wouldn't be hitting the internet where it makes the ministry look exactly as it is acting. By your fruits ye are known. Not even the workers can control that maxim.
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 28, 2012 16:19:30 GMT -5
Yesterday at 4:39pm, sacerdotal wrote:
Why is B worse than A? How can these two groups be compared?
No one knows exactly how many B's have rejected the group due to the internet--however, the A's who leave are visible and sometimes quite verbal as well.
The problem isnt going to go away of internet information about the 2x2 church being easily assessible.
For example, there will soon be another internet site launched that will contain only writings by Ex-2x2s: Why We Left stories, Exit letters and many other writings by exes, totalling about 300 Documents at launch, and other Documents will be added as they become available. About 80 stories and many of them have been recently written by TLCers who are willing to go public with their stories and writings.
The name of the site will be The Liberty Connection Website (TLC) and I am the Owner/Administrator.
Affiliated with the TLC Forum.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 16:36:19 GMT -5
Cherie - why the need to produce a further internet site? Why can such exit letters etc not be included on the TTT website under the existing 'Testimonies, Exit Letters, and Writings' section where they are likely to be accessed by a wider audience? Matt10
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 28, 2012 16:58:59 GMT -5
Cherie - why the need to produce a further internet site? Why can such exit letters etc not be included on the TTT website under the existing 'Testimonies, Exit Letters, and Writings' section where they are likely to be accessed by a wider audience? Matt10 My plan is that the focus of TTT will be primarily on history.
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Post by sharonw on Mar 28, 2012 19:15:38 GMT -5
I think what has happened from day 1 of the fellowship's life that there have been workers that got by with their crimes and then others see that they've gotten by, so the problem has multiplied, but all those guilty have been well covered for by their peers...it's a vicious cycle...a worker committs a crime, his peers cover it up for him and move him around and eventually move him into overseership, then it's not long where another worker having seen how the first one got by and was well protected by his peers, tries a similiar thing and sure enough his peers cover that up for him and move him around. It goes around and around, and until the workers in power are ready to admit to what has been covered up, even IF it is on themselves, they need to face it now....for it will be much WORSE on Judgment Day! I'm with you on this, sharonw. However, I sometimes wonder if, by letting some workers get by with their crimes, other workers weren't tempted to try this crime out for themselves. If there is no penalty for hurting another person, and you'll be protected no-matter-what, why wouldn't you try stuff out from time to time? I feel that in all likelihood that this very issue is what some of the young friends have seen and know about and thus those who tend to be abusers decide that they can get by so much easier and have their needs met and not have to pay for it, because in the work one is "on a pedestal" and none of the friends would dare report you for your abuses and your peers are going to keep moving you around and you get to have new victims and then you also are paid for all of this by being moved up into an overseership! Why would such abuser NOT want to be in the work, eh?
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Post by kencoolidge on Mar 28, 2012 20:51:09 GMT -5
I'm with you on this, sharonw. However, I sometimes wonder if, by letting some workers get by with their crimes, other workers weren't tempted to try this crime out for themselves. If there is no penalty for hurting another person, and you'll be protected no-matter-what, why wouldn't you try stuff out from time to time? I feel that in all likelihood that this very issue is what some of the young friends have seen and know about and thus those who tend to be abusers decide that they can get by so much easier and have their needs met and not have to pay for it, because in the work one is "on a pedestal" and none of the friends would dare report you for your abuses and your peers are going to keep moving you around and you get to have new victims and then you also are paid for all of this by being moved up into an overseership! Why would such abuser NOT want to be in the work, eh? If your analysis is correct and it could be then the work was in the plans of some very slimey folks
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Post by sacerdotal on Mar 28, 2012 21:51:51 GMT -5
Why is B worse than A? How can these two groups be compared? Just as in Scientology, folks that are still under the influence of the groups leaders- with leaders of both groups strongly recommending that their followers avoid the "poison" on the internet, the leaders still have a great amount of control of the message and this helps to mitigate losses in membership. However, the leaders are not able to exert the same influence on newbies that are researching the group. The 2x2s are doomed to almost 0% outside growth. The accounts of abuse and spiritual bullying are usually true and until the overseers realize that they cannot control the flow of information like they once could and unless they reform, then the fellowship is doomed to die by the cuts of a 1000 razors (1 internet posting at a time.) I warned an overseer about this happening over 5 years ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 23:30:52 GMT -5
+1. The problem more then triples. . . if the workers would simply deal with the problems in an honest, open, manner- no matter in how it makes the ministry look. . . then the problems wouldn't be hitting the internet where it makes the ministry look exactly as it is acting. By your fruits ye are known. Not even the workers can control that maxim. I remember someone else who used to do this ... does TS do it too ... use 'then' for 'than'? One is tempted to check a few old threads; good observation.
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Post by jhjmr on Mar 29, 2012 9:05:41 GMT -5
How many workers keep track of the poison on the internet by reading it themselves? Some even post remarks.
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Post by rational on Mar 29, 2012 10:11:04 GMT -5
My plan is that the focus of TTT will be primarily on history. Sounds like a good plan not to mix anecdotal material with material that has at least been researched as much as possible.
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Post by quizzer on Mar 29, 2012 10:36:07 GMT -5
I feel that in all likelihood that this very issue is what some of the young friends have seen and know about and thus those who tend to be abusers decide that they can get by so much easier and have their needs met and not have to pay for it, because in the work one is "on a pedestal" and none of the friends would dare report you for your abuses and your peers are going to keep moving you around and you get to have new victims and then you also are paid for all of this by being moved up into an overseership! Why would such abuser NOT want to be in the work, eh? If your analysis is correct and it could be then the work was in the plans of some very slimey folks Unfortunately, yes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 11:39:52 GMT -5
My plan is that the focus of TTT will be primarily on history. If that is the plan then I think it's a good one. I've always been slightly concerned that there's an element of TTT that appears (at least to me) to promote belief in another form of Christianity. Is it safe to assume then that the sections on 'Bible Topics' and 'Testimonies' and Questions such as "Does God REALLY Care About Women's Appearances?" would be removed from TTT? Matt10
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 29, 2012 12:57:22 GMT -5
Glad you approve. Some have expressed an interest in this type separation. The articles you mentioned will be moved over to the TLC Website... However, ALL the "testimonies" (letters) may not be moved - those that contain historical discovery that relates to the hidden 2x2 history will stay, like Derkland, Arvig & Rittenhouse/Sweetland. My plan is that the focus of TTT will be primarily on history. If that is the plan then I think it's a good one. I've always been slightly concerned that there's an element of TTT that appears (at least to me) to promote belief in another form of Christianity. Is it safe to assume then that the sections on 'Bible Topics' and 'Testimonies' and Questions such as "Does God REALLY Care About Women's Appearances?" would be removed from TTT? Matt10
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Post by rational on Mar 29, 2012 15:53:00 GMT -5
The name of the site will be The Liberty Connection Website (TLC) and I am the Owner/Administrator. Affiliated with the TLC Forum. And will people be excluded as they are from the TLC Forum?
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 30, 2012 9:13:12 GMT -5
As I indicated above, the Documents on the TLC Website are written EXCLUSIVELY by Ex-2x2s... However, the TLC Website will be a public website, open for viewing by anyone. There is no feedback/comment provision. The name of the site will be The Liberty Connection Website (TLC) and I am the Owner/Administrator. Affiliated with the TLC Forum. And will people be excluded as they are from the TLC Forum?
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