White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jun 25, 2008 6:09:31 GMT -5
Good morning folks sorry I’m unable to keep up with those that oppose us. As I work a lot and for this reason; I have not been able to respond as quickly as others would have me to. Some of my posting I have tried to but have not been properly put together. And being a one finger typing on the key board, takes a long time. This puts me at a major disadvantage to you who are very good at it. But that still don’t change the facts that some so vehemently argue about.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jun 25, 2008 6:17:43 GMT -5
sidenote: White Knight, did you mean "false" witness instead of faults witness in your siggy? I'm not sure I understand your point if you did it intentionally....no offense intended...just thought you might not know..or you could explain to me what you meant otherwise. M.
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jun 25, 2008 6:29:19 GMT -5
sidenote: White Knight, did you mean "false" witness instead of faults witness in your siggy? I'm not sure I understand your point if you did it intentionally....no offense intended...just thought you might not know..or you could explain to me what you meant otherwise. M. Your right. Thank you. WK.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Jun 25, 2008 6:31:03 GMT -5
No problem..i wasn't trying to be judgemental, honest. I should have PM'd you now thinking of it... Take care.. M.
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Post by Signing off on Jun 25, 2008 8:02:33 GMT -5
No problem..i wasn't trying to be judgemental, honest. I should have PM'd you now thinking of it... Take care.. M. Maybe when the court handles the case, we will then know the truth. Too many emotionally charged posts from some who support the twins and others who support the parents. Why does there have to be so many divisions in MI? I agree.So as the person that has been posting for several months against White Knight and many others to present the children's side to try to keep the facts true, I am going to discontinue posting. I'm sure others will step up to the plate, but I've realized we will never agree on what has happened and that this not fruitful or helpful to anyone. I pray that God will heal the minds and hearts of the children and that if they go back or if they don't, that he will protect them, comfort them and guide them for the rest of their lives. I sign off by saying that Scott Ross is a credible person and that I hope God will all help us as we journey through life. I have set up an e-mail account if any of you would like to e-mail me. I accept it all- hate mail, peace mail, question mail, etc. liberty-freedom@hotmail.com
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Post by degem on Jun 25, 2008 9:05:01 GMT -5
To Signing off- the best to you in the coming days! I agree with you about what you said about Scott Ross-that he is a credible person. He is levelheaded, caring and shows a right spirit. Scott's crediblity goes up a notch due to the fact that he has a motorcycle. We have a motorcyle and love riding it as Scott and his wife do theirs. Take care, Signing off Gem
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 25, 2008 10:18:54 GMT -5
Hey there Signing off, I sign off by saying that Scott Ross is a credible person and that I hope God will all help us as we journey through life. I have set up an e-mail account if any of you would like to e-mail me. I accept it all- hate mail, peace mail, question mail, etc. liberty-freedom@hotmail.com Hey thanks for the nice comment! I can understand why you are going to stop posting about this. In our conversations/emails I have seen how this situation has taken a toll on you and your whole (extended) family. I really hope that when everything is over with, that some healing can take place between the various relatives involved. I have read/heard the pain that has been caused through everything that has happened over there. I have prayed for all involved. As you know, I have my concerns for the children first and foremost, and even with all the friction over there, I think that most everyone has placed them first in the order of importance in what is happening. Keep in touch though..... And you there Gemster, Thanks for your comments also. In regards to: Scott's crediblity goes up a notch due to the fact that he has a motorcycle. We have a motorcyle and love riding it as Scott and his wife do theirs. Yesterday I took off work at noon and put 309 miles on my motorcycle on a round trip to go meet one of the registered posters here on the TMB. We met to visit and share a Subway sandwich in a town midway for both of us. It was great! His family came up this way for a convention in South Dakota, and it was so nice to finally meet in person after corresponding for several months and talking on the phone. (always looking for a good excuse to take a ride!!) Scott
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Post by saintfan on Jun 25, 2008 14:10:29 GMT -5
Scott's crediblity goes up a notch due to the fact that he has a motorcycle. We have a motorcyle and love riding it as Scott and his wife do theirs.
I have seen Scott's bike, he has big crediblity !!!!
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Post by degem on Jun 25, 2008 14:48:15 GMT -5
We have seen pictures of Scott's and his wife's motorcycles. They are beauties! I am partial to Scott's because its red/my favorite color. My husband's dream is to someday own a bike like Scott's.
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jun 29, 2008 20:57:53 GMT -5
Maybe when the court handles the case, we will then know the truth. Too many emotionally charged posts from some who support the twins and others who support the parents. Why does there have to be so many divisions in MI? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signing off wrote; "I agree.So as the person that has been posting for several months against White Knight and many others to present the children's side to try to keep the facts true, I am going to discontinue posting. I'm sure others will step up to the plate, but I've realized we will never agree on what has happened and that this not fruitful or helpful to anyone. I pray that God will heal the minds and hearts of the children and that if they go back or if they don't, that he will protect them, comfort them and guide them for the rest of their lives." "I sign off by saying that Scott Ross is a credible person and that I hope God will all help us as we journey through life. I have set up an e-mail account if any of you would like to e-mail me. I accept it all- hate mail, peace mail, question mail, etc. liberty-freedom@hotmail.com"[/quote] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The decision is easy. When lies have been made and/or false allegations are made. And others bring in distorted views. It doesn’t take science to figure things out. That doesn’t mean I’m not concerned about children. I am. But in this case it’s fairly clear; there was a vendetta against the family/parents. WK
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Post by Just waiting on Jul 1, 2008 9:52:27 GMT -5
When all is said and done, the real work begins. What will be the attitude of those who were against the parents be? What will the attitude of those workers sitting in the courtroom be? How is this going to be said and done? Right now the attitude is put them in the mud and walk on them as you pass. It sure isn't pick them up and help them. So, lets see the overseer do some healing for the people and the fellowship. How many will wait and see if this happens before they are interested in being in a fellowship together. The testing is about to happen and I firmly believe that God is doing the testing. He sees all and knows all. Who is guilty, the condemned or the condemner? The tested and tried are the ones who prevail.
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Post by Actions talk on Jul 4, 2008 10:18:02 GMT -5
Did JF inherit this mess? Was poor judgment used? Did JF add to the mess? Is JF getting out of the mess? Is JF in trouble? JF has been and is offensive and has a big problem. It isn't who started the problem, it is who can end the problem. A good guide to follow is to know what is true and not be afraid to say that mistakes were made, and nothing but the truth will be accepted. The healing is going to be a long process and it is not going to start until things are changed. So, who has the ability to change things? That is the thousand dollar question!!!
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Solving the problem
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Post by Solving the problem on Jul 4, 2008 14:35:55 GMT -5
I can't offer an answer to Michigan specifically; however, it would be my observation that the workers are not tending to their fold. Our assigned worker is out of the state more than in the state.
Certainly there are some benefits to sharing their wealth of knowledge and understanding of the Bible with other conventions and special meetings. However, this fellowship will not continue if they spend more time in the air then in their field.
What happened to the traveling minister who just traveled in their assigned field? Due to the lack of workers the fields are larger so it would seem that they should remain in their state even more.
If I am traveling all of the time I am not tending to the needs of my family. If I am impressing other states with my product it doesn't matter if my family is not being attended to.
With the cost of today's travel and a fellowship that is built on conservatism shouldn't we expect our leaders, our shepherds, our guides, and those who minister to us to be among us?
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Post by the shadow knows on Jul 4, 2008 14:40:25 GMT -5
Nice posts GS about nothing.
the shadow knows
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Post by betrue on Jul 5, 2008 8:52:05 GMT -5
The Michigan Overseer is not out of control and if people feel against each other they're missing the real point of all this.
The goal is to protect children from physical abuse, neglect and sexual abuse. We don't have to take any sides - but God's and State Law. We can all make sure the Michigan Child Protection Law is followed and we can all pray that God's will be done, in this case and in all things. We can keep a right attitude before God and all involved in this case - the parents, the workers, and especially ALL six of the children.
The workers, nor the Overseer have any control over the investigation. But they are mandated reporters and they must follow State law. People who would fault them for following the law are ignorant of the Child welfare process in this State. All of us should stand for children and the law - and we should stand by the workers for doing what they must.
Forget taking sides. Let's just stand for what's right by law. Children must be protected and family's offered help. The basis for all this was child abuse in the home and it was substaniated by the system. There was no FALSE reporting. The overseer did what was lawful. I support that 100%.
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Post by YABBA on Jul 5, 2008 10:49:20 GMT -5
'betrue,'
Exactly. Nothing else needed.
YABBA
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Post by YELLOWSTONE PARK on Jul 5, 2008 10:52:03 GMT -5
in agreement YABBA and BETRUE
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Post by HA HA on Jul 5, 2008 21:27:30 GMT -5
'betrue,' Exactly. Nothing else needed. YABBA You seem to YABBA YABBA on all the threads. Bored with life?
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jul 7, 2008 19:49:25 GMT -5
Nice posts GS about nothing. the shadow knows You seem to have a problem with the or about the truth, that’s your problem. I can't hold your hand and make you understand what you don't want to understand.
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Post by Say What on Jul 10, 2008 22:33:51 GMT -5
The Michigan Overseer is not out of control and if people feel against each other they're missing the real point of all this. The goal is to protect children from physical abuse, neglect and sexual abuse. We don't have to take any sides - but God's and State Law. We can all make sure the Michigan Child Protection Law is followed and we can all pray that God's will be done, in this case and in all things. We can keep a right attitude before God and all involved in this case - the parents, the workers, and especially ALL six of the children. The workers, nor the Overseer have any control over the investigation. But they are mandated reporters and they must follow State law. People who would fault them for following the law are ignorant of the Child welfare process in this State. All of us should stand for children and the law - and we should stand by the workers for doing what they must. Forget taking sides. Let's just stand for what's right by law. Children must be protected and family's offered help. The basis for all this was child abuse in the home and it was substaniated by the system. There was no FALSE reporting. The overseer did what was lawful. I support that 100%. You stated the workers are mandated reporters? Yes, it took 5 of them to be able to come up with any report and their reports are not even true. If JF was a mandated reporter, how come he didn't go to the police? Perhaps he was to busy trying to figure out the definition of a reporter. Or, perhaps he was making sure someone else would take the fall for his ignorance.
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Post by pianoman on Jul 11, 2008 10:33:10 GMT -5
I will stick up for Gem and others that may not reveal who they are on here. I agree that it may take away some credibility, but sometimes it is a good way just to get your feet wet!!!
NOW FOR THE REAL DEAL ON OVERSEERS AND OTHERS THAT GET OUT OF LINE. My dear brothers and sisters, I have been reading in the Gospels and I have been wrestling with matters in my heart. I believe that the "truth" has many positives, and if it were to come clean in the matters that are the most pressing, they would have a very strong leg to stand on, as a way to worship, just not being the ONLY way. My prayers have led me to think differently than my "Rule infested mind" (growing up almost B & R as an insider) I thought that the true way to handle the ones that are out of line, and there was no question about it, was to be Christlike and not cause a stir. THEN the light came on!!! I was reading about Jesus in how that he made the scourge that He went into the Temple to "clean it out" I am sure that His mood may have been very dark while He was making His scourge, but He was not going to allow the people to let His Father's house become a den of thieves! We may need to turn our cheeks in other matters, but I am convinced, now, that a good old can of "WHOOP-HINEY" is what is needed to clean out the "truth" or anything that is going to want to be considered part of the kingdom.
I have little doubt that God had an idea of what he wants from us, but as long as there is confusion and the wrong people in the "power" positions to "make all of the rules" it will be a long dry spell before that gets done and we can clearly see His way. We have the bible so we don't need rules. We have bibles so that we can find the way through prayer and reading. Having "workers" or those that can truly spread the gospel is not a bad idea, but when these that are supposed to be servants, live better that some that could use help from the more fortunate, where is the sacrifice? I work my backside off for wages that barely let me live, with no frills and I don't have health benefits, and I have to pay for insurance, groceries, lights, gas, water, sewer, and the list goes on. One thing that I can state without hesitation is that the majority of the workers (above 35 years old) have totally lost touch with reality in the bill paying world. Next I wonder how many have truely been homeless, and I mean homeless with no friends, money, job, car, house, and so on ? I am there right now. Health reasons have taken away my means of support, by working, which I have done all my life. People say they are broke. I wonder how many even know what that means? I make a little money (about $30.00 U.S.D.) a month by driving others around, and I need to save most of that for repairs. The mobile home I was living in was sold and so I had to move out. The town I live in was hit by a natural disaster and so the housing that I was hoping that the state was going to help me with, fell through so I am staying at my daughters right now. I watch her 5 children 3 days a week to help her out as best I can, and since I can barely walk, due to a tear in my knee, that is the best I can do right now.I hope to have my knee fixed by surgery on July 28th so maybe in the next several months I can be back to starting over again, but I am thankful if that works out. How many of you that are reading this, let alone people from the "truth", have experienced this. I really mean the money in my pocket is all that I have and I am rich because I have a running car!!! I have 3 pairs of shoes, about 3 pairs of pants, maybe 10 shirts of different styles, and very little socks and undies. I can move EVERYTHING that I own in my car and leave the passenger seat empty (what a true blessing!.) I am not looking for pity as I feel that God has enriched my life, but if you have never lived like this and you know that the majority, if not all, of the workers have never lived like this, how can they understand it? Probably one of the reasons that I get to points like this in my life (this is the lowest financially) is because I don't care about money and make sure that those in need do not go without, as best I can! Go into a store with a younger brother or sister worker, maybe in their second year out, and see if they don't have a credit card.
When Jesus washed the disciples feet, he was making a point. When Mary anointed Jesus feet, he said that they would have the poor with them always and the poor, and let down, and helpless, needy, heavy burdened, were the ones that Jesus came for so, they need to be helped. Again that was how Stephen was first noted in the bible. He was appointed to take care of the widows that couldn't do for themselves. Where will all of our money go when we die anyway? I am not saying that we shouldn't plan for our futures or the futures of our children, but when a brother or sister is in need, what are we to do? I would say follow Jesus. That has become two words that are being used more and more in my vocabulary now, is "follow Jesus!" I probably will receive a lot of flak over this post, but my dear family, I will only write what I feel will be helpful and what I believe is honest and from my heart because the Lord put it there. With that, I wish peace to all of your homes and loved ones..................... Pianoman
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Fullfill Gods Law of Love
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Post by Fullfill Gods Law of Love on Jul 11, 2008 10:53:59 GMT -5
Remember
36: Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37: Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38: This is the first and great commandment. 39: And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40: On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
So then by what sin judgment may you purge others out of the fellowship?
1: Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2: Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. 3: For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
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Thinking your something
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Post by Thinking your something on Jul 12, 2008 12:30:52 GMT -5
When the worker wants to overseer is he not thinking of himself as being something. The higher the position, the more control over others. Why would someone that wants to help others, be interested in having the control over others? Would the money involved have any bearing? Asking permission of a overseer, does give the overseer a superior attitude. Over the entire fellowship including the junior workers. Does not pride cometh before a fall?
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Post by a reader on Jul 12, 2008 18:34:53 GMT -5
So, which overseer ASKED for the position ? And usually the ones who THINK they are going to get one, are for sure, NOT given such a place. Since as you said, there's lots of responsibilities and even $ to deal with, and it requires a person of integrity and spiritual growth who doesn't seek for place, power and privilege, thus when it comes their way because others have respect for the burdens and responsibilities they are willing to accept when ASKED by others to take an overseer-ship of a staff, they can, with the grace of God, deal with these things gracefully and as Christ-like as is humanly possible. Likely Jerome would sign on to have his name removed from the position as well at times, but he gracefully and willingly continues to do what he has been asked to do.
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Pink
Senior Member
Posts: 411
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Post by Pink on Jul 12, 2008 18:47:32 GMT -5
So, which overseer ASKED for the position ? And usually the ones who THINK they are going to get one, are for sure, NOT given such a place. Since as you said, there's lots of responsibilities and even $ to deal with, and it requires a person of integrity and spiritual growth who doesn't seek for place, power and privilege, thus when it comes their way because others have respect for the burdens and responsibilities they are willing to accept when ASKED by others to take an overseer-ship of a staff, they can, with the grace of God, deal with these things gracefully and as Christ-like as is humanly possible. Likely Jerome would sign on to have his name removed from the position as well at times, but he gracefully and willingly continues to do what he has been asked to do. Hmmm. I believe you are quite out of touch with the reality of how one acquires a position of overseer. Trust me. They don't draw straws/cast lots. There is a system to it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2008 19:20:58 GMT -5
You're quite right Pink, there is a system. From what I have seen it is a lot like choosing a new pope from amongst the cardinals.
One utter essential required if you are lobbying for the position of pope is that you must not reveal that you actually want the job. It's a very tricky artform. It works the same way for overseer positions, which is why most of the laity actually believe that the overseers didn't want the promotion.
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Post by ooT on Jul 12, 2008 21:11:30 GMT -5
Clearday, are you saying you are not "laity"? You will have to give a little more insight to the system - or Pink will - to convince me that humble men are not the ones chosen.
Mark Huddle, Jim Price, Lyle Schober, Dale Schultz, and Dean Breuer come to mind.
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Pink
Senior Member
Posts: 411
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Post by Pink on Jul 12, 2008 23:53:11 GMT -5
Humble? I personally don't know any of the workers mentioned above. If you have seen characteristics of humbleness about them I think that is great. But I guarantee they walk the walk and talk the talk of the ones who went before them or they wouldn't even be considered for the position. In other words, these particular ones may walk softly but I'm sure they carry a big stick.
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