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Post by to daisy on Jul 6, 2006 21:22:26 GMT -5
Craig/Daisy: What states are these rich families from? Do you know?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2006 21:22:27 GMT -5
OK, after dinner. D has a doctoral degree in art history and a master of science degree in Chemistry. She oversees art restoration projects that are extrmely sensitive and high budget. She is also a concert pianist and a competitive adult figure skater in her spare time! On vacations, we like to visit gourmet cooking schools around the world and being back neq ideas to pie kitchen. D teaches extension classes at a University of Cal campus, most of her work comes through s museum she is on staff there. She also works as a consultant, that is how we will be going to South America in Aug. She has been hired by some ambassador to do a project as a consultant.
Anyway, she has no need to come to this message board and puff herself up, she has accomplished great things plus I love her. I am going to work on dinner now, I am making a variation on chicken noodle soup, hopefully it will be good her medication gives her a lot of nausea.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2006 21:28:14 GMT -5
As you all probably know there are many wealthy people in the group. However, the list of those who are BOTH wealthy and generous is much shorter, which is why D estimated around 60Families. They are spread out everywhere, but it seems that CA has more than their share, probably at least a dozen are here in CA.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 6, 2006 21:58:45 GMT -5
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Post by prayhard on Jul 6, 2006 22:47:28 GMT -5
A better name would be the "Methodicals" because it is method preachers in the 2x2's preach - not by the gospel message of grace by Christ's death and resurrection.
METHOD of ministry is their core.
Christ's Grace and freedom in Him are not.
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Post by winston on Jul 7, 2006 20:57:49 GMT -5
This church does have a name which is filed with the government. It is called the "Convention churches of America". My aunt who was "in the work" has a copy of her "ordination" as a minister in this church. I believe this filing was needed for "conciencious objecters" during war time back in the 1940's.
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Post by no name bull on Jul 7, 2006 21:10:35 GMT -5
This church is equated to the Pharisees and the Sadducees. It's repulsive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2006 11:13:40 GMT -5
Why can't they agree on a name and settle on one! Stop the "Jesus didn't take a name" stuff. They aren't a continuation of the early church any more than the next group down the road. Some claim those at Babel in Genesis 11 took a name. Consistency please.
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Post by Just Looking on Jul 9, 2006 12:11:24 GMT -5
Why can't they agree on a name and settle on one! Stop the "Jesus didn't take a name" stuff. They aren't a continuation of the early church any more than the next group down the road. Some claim those at Babel in Genesis 11 took a name. Consistency please. Jesus was always refering to His teachings as the truth. That is both a label and a discription of His teachings, but is not officially, a name for the group, yet, when it referred to, we know what is meant, don't we?
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Post by nonde on Jul 9, 2006 12:36:51 GMT -5
Conservative religious group peacefully goes about its business
Albany Times Union/July 18, 2000 By Kim Martineau Guilderland, NY -- They don't smoke, drink or watch television. And though their numbers rival groups like the Moonies or Rajneeshees, this conservative Christian sect has managed to remain virtually unknown. Outsiders call them "Two by Twos" because ministers travel in pairs to convert new members. But to those who follow the austere lifestyle prescribed by the sect, which rejects churches and other institutions, the religion does not have a name and is referred to simply as "The Way" or "The Truth."
Since 1921, three generations of the Knaggs family have hosted a large, somber, spiritual retreat called a "convention" at their dairy farm. Each summer, an estimated 800 people, mostly from the Northeast, descend on the farm for a four-day religious event.
Despite the large number, most neighbors and officials in the suburban Albany town knew little about the group's existence until last month. That is when the town got a tip that four buildings on the 165-acre farm near the Watervliet Reservoir violated health and safety codes. The owners had represented the buildings as farm sheds, but when the town's building inspector visited the site, he found men's and women's dormitories, washrooms and cooking facilities inside the buildings.
Town and county officials have ordered the owners to make sure the buildings, septic systems and other facilities meet state code by the time the event starts on Aug. 17.
"When you have these mass gatherings, you want to make sure an accident doesn't happen," said town Supervisor Ken Runion.
A Scottish evangelist, William Irvine, founded the group at the turn of the century in Ireland as a reaction to organized religion. For a time, the sect was highly visible, and it spread quickly to other English-speaking countries. But then the group's charismatic leader began to deviate from the sect's principal ideas, arguing that the end of the world was approaching and that ministers should stop converting new members. Irvine was banished in 1914, said Benton Johnson, a sociologist who has studied the sect, and the group developed an aura of secrecy and anonymity that has endured.
The most fascinating aspect about the group, and the key to its survival, said Johnson, has been its refusal to be named or identified. When a reporter asked a local minister, Charles Steffen, what his group is called, he responded enigmatically: "The greatest name there is, is our father's name."
Members dress conservatively, but not in a manner that draws attention. They don't observe special eating rituals. They have no churches, literature or pamphlets, other than the King James version of the Bible. They are not incorporated as a tax-exempt religious group. They send their children to public schools. Without a name, the group has managed to avert some of the publicity and problems that smaller sects and cults have attracted.
"It's a very clever strategy," said Johnson, a retired sociology professor at the University of Oregon.
Because there are no churches, Two by Twos hold Sunday meetings in their homes. They believe the only path to salvation is by earning it, through simple living and the teachings of a minister (you can't be saved on your own). Ministers survive on the donations of members and are called by their first name. The sect traces its roots to the birth of Jesus, not the worldly Irvine, and places its emphasis on Matthew's gospel.
"We tell people to get back to the simple life of the scripture," said Steffen. "It's more of a fellowship or a family than an organization."
Though the group shares some of the characteristics of a cult, its members take a largely passive view of the world and are not violent, scholars say. The Guilderland police have directed traffic at the close of the gatherings but otherwise have had no reason to visit the farm, said Chief James Murley.
Besides Guilderland, two other gatherings are held in the Northeast, one on a farm in western New York and another on a farm in Milford, N.H. There are about 85 convention sites across the country.
But the group and its ministers have also attracted criticism from former members. A West Texan, Gene DeVoll, blew the whistle on Knaggs Farm last month. DeVoll, who left the group after he got divorced in 1996, said he reported the violations because he is troubled by the leadership's secrecy and lack of accountability. He has never visited the Guilderland farm but got his information from a member.
"These men are very controlling," he said. "They hide their money. They wear $600 suits and have $20,000 credit card bills. And yet they stand up and preach `I have nothing to my name."'
All property is owned by individuals who, like the Knaggs, use it for the good of the movement. "We charge no admission or other fees, nor do we take any collections," Albert Knaggs, a minister, said in a prepared statement. "We have not advertised our gathering, nor have we sought to hide it."
The Knaggs are now at work making changes to the farm to comply with code requirements. The Two by Twos expect to hold their convention this summer, as they do every year.
"It's really not a public gathering," Steffen said. "It's a gathering of believers. We haven't had any illnesses or problems. We've been very careful. We want to do what's right."
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Post by a believer on Jul 9, 2006 16:00:37 GMT -5
Why can't they agree on a name and settle on one! Stop the "Jesus didn't take a name" stuff. They aren't a continuation of the early church any more than the next group down the road. Some claim those at Babel in Genesis 11 took a name. Consistency please. Jesus was always referring to His teachings as the truth. That is both a label and a description of His teachings, but is not officially, a name for the group, yet, when it referred to, we know what is meant, don't we? Go to any Jehovah Witness meeting and you will also hear them calling themselves the truth i the same way as the workers do. I prefer to call Jesus the truth and not a group I attend.
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Post by speaking the truth on Jul 9, 2006 16:10:36 GMT -5
Just keep speaking up Daisy, the 2x2s don't like people like you who know too much. There are 2 groups, those who know and want to keep you quiet and those who don't know and have been brainwashed into believing that these things do not exist. The group thrives on lies and secrecy which thanks to the Internet is now beginning to be exposed. The control of those at the top is beginning to crumble as people realize they have been lied to. Jesus said nothing happens in darkness which will not come to light. It is now happening.
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Post by Formerfriend on Jul 17, 2006 11:04:36 GMT -5
Had to respond regarding the group's name as registered with the US gov't. I filed for concscientious objector status in 1986 and William Lewis supported my case on official stationery whose letterhead read, "Christian Convention...."
Very humble letterhead and paper, of course.
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sm
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Post by sm on Jul 17, 2006 17:56:51 GMT -5
Wow, even *I* found this one a fascinating read.
Daisy, don't stop speaking out..somewhere..someone's reading what you're writing, and everything is falling into place for them.
I can vouch for the fact that entire estates are left to the workers, as my grandmother in law did just that. Even though she had surviving children who could have used the money more because of their dire financial needs.
Millions of dollars, and not only do the people not know about it...them not knowing makes no one accountable. how easy it would be for anyone in charge to set aside a little nest egg for themselves, and no one would be the wiser.
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