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Post by buttie on Jul 5, 2006 13:05:50 GMT -5
Obituaries of professing friends refer to their church as the NONDEMONINATIONAL CHURCH. Isn't this a bit decieving? Anti-denominational would be a better name. Actually this group takes a different name depending upon where they are located.
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Post by 1111111111 on Jul 5, 2006 13:11:26 GMT -5
Obituaries of professing friends refer to their church as the NONDEMONINATIONAL CHURCH. Isn't this a bit decieving? Anti-denominational would be a better name. Actually this group takes a different name depending upon where they are located. what a bitter little person we have here...
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Post by Happy Feet on Jul 5, 2006 15:18:06 GMT -5
When the truth is told a person is called bitter?
I think your post says more of what is in your heart 1111111111 than the first poster who is merely stating an observation.
The 2x2s are certainly anti denominational. i.e. anti other denominations.
They are certainly not nondenominational. They are a denomination in every sense of the word.
Does having a name make a group denominational and not having one make them non denominational?
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Post by HAVE on Jul 5, 2006 16:24:50 GMT -5
Obituaries of professing friends refer to their church as the NONDEMONINATIONAL CHURCH. Isn't this a bit decieving? Anti-denominational would be a better name. Actually this group takes a different name depending upon where they are located. Have you had your head butted, buttie?
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Post by HOW on Jul 5, 2006 16:26:25 GMT -5
When the truth is told a person is called bitter? I think your post says more of what is in your heart 1111111111 than the first poster who is merely stating an observation. The 2x2s are certainly anti denominational. i.e. anti other denominations. They are certainly not nondenominational. They are a denomination in every sense of the word. Does having a name make a group denominational and not having one make them non denominational? How are we denominational?
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Post by neate on Jul 5, 2006 16:37:08 GMT -5
When the truth is told a person is called bitter? I think your post says more of what is in your heart 1111111111 than the first poster who is merely stating an observation. The 2x2s are certainly anti denominational. i.e. anti other denominations. They are certainly not nondenominational. They are a denomination in every sense of the word. Does having a name make a group denominational and not having one make them non denominational? neat.. two bitter pple.
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Post by Happy Feet on Jul 5, 2006 17:41:05 GMT -5
When the truth is told a person is called bitter? I think your post says more of what is in your heart 1111111111 than the first poster who is merely stating an observation. The 2x2s are certainly anti denominational. i.e. anti other denominations. They are certainly not nondenominational. They are a denomination in every sense of the word. Does having a name make a group denominational and not having one make them non denominational? How are we denominational? You are a denomination the same as every other church. You are an organized 'church', you have a set of beliefs, you have leaders, you meet together, you use a registered name for special purposes, in times of war you have exemption from service by registering a name, you have your own places for gatherings all over the world. You are the same as every other church, with elders, workers, gatherings.. membership through professing in meeting held by the workers. It is more of a denomination than most churches as one much profess through your leaders in order to partake as a full member of the group. In mainstream churches one does not have to profess in their church/denomination. Just saying you do not have a name does not make it not a denomination
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Post by selah on Jul 5, 2006 17:50:56 GMT -5
denomination -
A group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith.
Identifying word or words by which someone or something is called and classified or distinguished from others.
denominational -
Relating to or characteristic of a particular religious denomination.
Adhering or confined to a particular sect or denomination or party.
- from WordWeb
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Post by denominational on Jul 5, 2006 17:54:04 GMT -5
How are we denominational? You are a denomination the same as every other church. You are an organized 'church', you have a set of beliefs, you have leaders, you meet together, you use a registered name for special purposes, in times of war you have exemption from service by registering a name, you have your own places for gatherings all over the world. You are the same as every other church, with elders, workers, gatherings.. membership through professing in meeting held by the workers. It is more of a denomination than most churches as one much profess through your leaders in order to partake as a full member of the group. In mainstream churches one does not have to profess in their church/denomination. Just saying you do not have a name does not make it not a denomination the 2x2s are not denominational by definition. here is the definition: A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy. the 2x2s do not have name, administration, or legal hierarchy. so that gives them the status of non-denominational.
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Post by Happy Feet on Jul 5, 2006 18:04:23 GMT -5
According to your quote in post 8 the 2x2s are a denomination. They are a large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under an administrative and hierarchy (omiting the word legal, do churches have a legal hierarchy, they are governed by the church elders etc)?
If the 2x2s are not a denomination under this quote then no church is a denomination.
What church has a legal hierarchy? the word being legal. The 2x2s have a hierarchy. The workers, elders, saints.
The 2x2s certainly do have administration. I know the person in our town that is the administrator of all the money and affairs of the group. How do you think lists are done, money paid etc...
They have large group of religious congregations under a common faith..... with hierarchy, no one disputes that...
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Post by wrong on Jul 5, 2006 18:26:36 GMT -5
According to your quote in post 8 the 2x2s are a denomination. They are a large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under an administrative and hierarchy (omiting the word legal, do churches have a legal hierarchy, they are governed by the church elders etc)? If the 2x2s are not a denomination under this quote then no church is a denomination. What church has a legal hierarchy? the word being legal. The 2x2s have a hierarchy. The workers, elders, saints. The 2x2s certainly do have administration. I know the person in our town that is the administrator of all the money and affairs of the group. How do you think lists are done, money paid etc... They have large group of religious congregations under a common faith..... with hierarchy, no one disputes that... you are wrong... the church does not have an admistration.. the 2x2s do not deal with money issues like other religions. there are never any collection or anything. so they dont need an adminstration. and they dont have the legal hierarchy because they dont have publicated rules they change. they just follow the bible. non demonitational.
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Post by Happy Feet on Jul 5, 2006 18:38:09 GMT -5
According to your quote in post 8 the 2x2s are a denomination. They are a large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under an administrative and hierarchy (omiting the word legal, do churches have a legal hierarchy, they are governed by the church elders etc)? If the 2x2s are not a denomination under this quote then no church is a denomination. What church has a legal hierarchy? the word being legal. The 2x2s have a hierarchy. The workers, elders, saints. The 2x2s certainly do have administration. I know the person in our town that is the administrator of all the money and affairs of the group. How do you think lists are done, money paid etc... They have large group of religious congregations under a common faith..... with hierarchy, no one disputes that... you are wrong... the church does not have an administration.. the 2x2s do not deal with money issues like other religions. there are never any collection or anything. so they don't need an administration. and they don't have the legal hierarchy because they don't have publicated rules they change. they just follow the bible. non demonitational. You obviously do not know what goes on in your group. How do you think there is a wide list of conventions and speakers? who does these lists? Who does the office work, the accounts, etc. Who keeps a record of the money etc? the workers? now is that scriptural? Does the Bible say not to muzzle the ox with the corn? That deacons in the Bible were appointed over these things. The 2x2s have a hierarchy, the workers at the top, elders etc. and then the lay people. At the top of all them is the head worker. Now who was the head worker in the Bible? The 2x2s collect money, (dont' say they don't because we know they do - just they don't do it in the meeting) so they need someone to administer it... how do you think they get money? from the people or the state? How do you think workers fly around the world? Does a worker just get on a plane and go or is it arranged? Plenty goes on behind the scenes. Just they do not make themselves accountable to the people. This group functions by the hierarchy with head workers at the top down to the lay people
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Post by huh on Jul 5, 2006 20:02:21 GMT -5
you are wrong... the church does not have an administration.. the 2x2s do not deal with money issues like other religions. there are never any collection or anything. so they don't need an administration. and they don't have the legal hierarchy because they don't have publicated rules they change. they just follow the bible. non demonitational. You obviously do not know what goes on in your group. How do you think there is a wide list of conventions and speakers? who does these lists? Who does the office work, the accounts, etc. Who keeps a record of the money etc? the workers? now is that scriptural? Does the Bible say not to muzzle the ox with the corn? That deacons in the Bible were appointed over these things. Who keeps a record of the money , the workers at the top, elders etc. and then the lay people. At the top of all them is the head worker. Now who was the head worker in the Bible? The 2x2s collect money, (dont' say they don't because we know they do - just they don't do it in the meeting) so they need someone to administer it... how do you think they get money? from the people or the state? How do you think workers fly around the world? Does a worker just get on a plane and go or is it arranged? Plenty goes on behind the scenes. Just they do not make themselves accountable to the people. This group functions by the hierarchy with head workers at the top down to the lay people [Who does the office work] you tell us then we will know and where is the office? ;D [the accounts] what accounts? [Who keeps a record of the money] what money? [Who keeps a record of the money] o yea who? [The 2x2s collect money] where from? [someone to administer it] how? [Plenty goes on behind the scenes] what scenes?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2006 1:17:41 GMT -5
Craig again, writing for Daisy, who is now resting quietly at home and doing very well.
She is dictating to me, she feels it is very important to answer some of these questions, as things are so secretive that only a handfulpf people actually know the answers.
Generally, the overseer of a field has a house, apartment or condo where he can keep records. This place is also used as a retreat for him to get away from the pressure. The house is not occupied by the faithful, it is kept exclusively for the overseers use. Daisys family has. Bought several of these overseers reyesta over the years. She personally knows that half a dozen overseers have had such retreats, it is likely most do business this way. The overseers generally keep two types of records. The first is a record of disciplinary actions, problems etc *ie Joe has a TV, he was asked to get rid of it on this date, he still had it as of this date*
The second and far more important type of record is financial. Workers have 3 main sources of income. The smallest is the pockedy change that they take in from the average member, usually this amounts to very little and it is not tracked. But, there are approximately 60 families in the US who haved and give huge amounts. These are the people who foot the bill when, for example thee is a big hymn book project and an important overseer wants to charter a plane or fly on the Concord to do business. These few families are courted by the workers, they are treated very special. The third source of money is the biggest, estates. Junior workers have very little interest in the ten or twenty you slip them in a letter, but believe me, when you are old, frail, helpless and alone the overseer of your area will turn hug pressure and he will try to get you to leave him your estate. The overseer generally has quite a few financial records associated with the estates he controlls, this is why he generally needs a private place to jeep his records and go over his business affairs. The late Eldon T. Controlled tens of mllions of dollars in estate money. The cool thing is that overseers use this money to reward members who they are close to *ofteb helping people from the richest families get even richer*! Eldona office was a 3 bedroom house in Anaheim. Ten years ago, he only trusted two of his top guys to help with financial matters, at this time that was Dick Middleton and Don Fischer. Every overseer would pick his own office and trusted staff, I presume. Actually the average worker typically knows less about money than the several dozen rich friends. It seems that the overseers work in tandem with the rich friends, the one hand washing the other. Sister workers are completely out of the loop.
As the whole business is a secret except from a few hundred people in the entire world, yes I would call it behind the scenes stuff.
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Post by fantasy on Jul 6, 2006 2:53:03 GMT -5
Craig again, writing for Daisy, who is now resting quietly at home and doing very well. She is dictating to me, she feels it is very important to answer some of these questions, as things are so secretive that only a handfulpf people actually know the answers. Generally, the overseer of a field has a house, apartment or condo where he can keep records. This place is also used as a retreat for him to get away from the pressure. The house is not occupied by the faithful, it is kept exclusively for the overseers use. Daisys family has. Bought several of these overseers reyesta over the years. She personally knows that half a dozen overseers have had such retreats, it is likely most do business this way. The overseers generally keep two types of records. The first is a record of disciplinary actions, problems etc *ie Joe has a TV, he was asked to get rid of it on this date, he still had it as of this date* The second and far more important type of record is financial. Workers have 3 main sources of income. The smallest is the pockedy change that they take in from the average member, usually this amounts to very little and it is not tracked. But, there are approximately 60 families in the US who haved and give huge amounts. These are the people who foot the bill when, for example thee is a big hymn book project and an important overseer wants to charter a plane or fly on the Concord to do business. These few families are courted by the workers, they are treated very special. The third source of money is the biggest, estates. Junior workers have very little interest in the ten or twenty you slip them in a letter, but believe me, when you are old, frail, helpless and alone the overseer of your area will turn hug pressure and he will try to get you to leave him your estate. The overseer generally has quite a few financial records associated with the estates he controlls, this is why he generally needs a private place to jeep his records and go over his business affairs. The late Eldon T. Controlled tens of mllions of dollars in estate money. The cool thing is that overseers use this money to reward members who they are close to *ofteb helping people from the richest families get even richer*! Eldona office was a 3 bedroom house in Anaheim. Ten years ago, he only trusted two of his top guys to help with financial matters, at this time that was Richard Middleton and Don Fischer. Every overseer would pick his own office and trusted staff, I presume. Actually the average worker typically knows less about money than the several dozen rich friends. It seems that the overseers work in tandem with the rich friends, the one hand washing the other. Sister workers are completely out of the loop. As the whole business is a secret except from a few hundred people in the entire world, yes I would call it behind the scenes stuff. this post is nothing but fantasy.. silly.. but daisy is so curagous trying to make sure it gets out while she is confined to the bed. a true hero. sheesh..
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Post by been on Jul 6, 2006 4:34:09 GMT -5
Craig again, writing for Daisy, who is now resting quietly at home and doing very well. She is dictating to me, she feels it is very important to answer some of these questions, as things are so secretive that only a handfulpf people actually know the answers. Generally, the overseer of a field has a house, apartment or condo where he can keep records. This place is also used as a retreat for him to get away from the pressure. The house is not occupied by the faithful, it is kept exclusively for the overseers use. Daisys family has. Bought several of these overseers reyesta over the years. She personally knows that half a dozen overseers have had such retreats, it is likely most do business this way. The overseers generally keep two types of records. The first is a record of disciplinary actions, problems etc *ie Joe has a TV, he was asked to get rid of it on this date, he still had it as of this date* The second and far more important type of record is financial. Workers have 3 main sources of income. The smallest is the pockedy change that they take in from the average member, usually this amounts to very little and it is not tracked. But, there are approximately 60 families in the US who haved and give huge amounts. These are the people who foot the bill when, for example thee is a big hymn book project and an important overseer wants to charter a plane or fly on the Concord to do business. These few families are courted by the workers, they are treated very special. The third source of money is the biggest, estates. Junior workers have very little interest in the ten or twenty you slip them in a letter, but believe me, when you are old, frail, helpless and alone the overseer of your area will turn hug pressure and he will try to get you to leave him your estate. The overseer generally has quite a few financial records associated with the estates he controlls, this is why he generally needs a private place to jeep his records and go over his business affairs. The late Eldon T. Controlled tens of mllions of dollars in estate money. The cool thing is that overseers use this money to reward members who they are close to *ofteb helping people from the richest families get even richer*! Eldona office was a 3 bedroom house in Anaheim. Ten years ago, he only trusted two of his top guys to help with financial matters, at this time that was Richard Middleton and Don Fischer. Every overseer would pick his own office and trusted staff, I presume. Actually the average worker typically knows less about money than the several dozen rich friends. It seems that the overseers work in tandem with the rich friends, the one hand washing the other. Sister workers are completely out of the loop. As the whole business is a secret except from a few hundred people in the entire world, yes I would call it behind the scenes stuff. been smelling to may daisies have we?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 6, 2006 6:46:45 GMT -5
Craig/Daisy That's GREAT that Daisy is back home and doing well! Glad to hear it. Have you had time to look at my private message (PM)? (Hover over the word "messages" in the top block on this page and click it--where it says "Hey Daisy, you have__messages __ new") Thanx, Cherie
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2006 11:36:57 GMT -5
Hey Cherie,
I can see where she has unread messages, so I nam sure you are there. I still haven't given her the pda, I have been holding it to jeep her from working* But, I am sure she will be well enough in a day or two to respond to you and the others who have written.
I am sorry some are so delusional they won't listen on finances even though we know detailed and specific information.
It is weird, Da father is a rich successful man, so overseers come to him constantly for investment advice etc. It is totally an old boys club, some of them even play the stock market! Only a few are insiders to the financial stuff, and they are typically the rich friends who can help shelter monet, give investment advice, serve as a tax mole, etc. It is a shame the members know so little.
When Eldon died,Daisys brother cleaned out his house. Of course they had known about it for years, as their family had also closed out Uncle Willies house and Jack C's house. I guess it is true that if you are the lead sled dog you get to see a lot of things, if you are one of the dogs behind all you see is another dogs *hole. Most of the poor folks doing the pulling have no idea what goes on in this group. Pathetic.
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juju
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Post by juju on Jul 6, 2006 14:10:45 GMT -5
Quoted:: the 2x2s do not have name, administration, or legal hierarchy. so that gives them the status of non-denominational.
Some one has their head firmly and deeply planted in the sand!
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Post by juju1 on Jul 6, 2006 15:43:40 GMT -5
Quoted:: the 2x2s do not have name, administration, or legal hierarchy. so that gives them the status of non-denominational. Some one has their head firmly and deeply planted in the sand! hey juju fruit.. why dont you do a the world a favor and disapear? if you are going to be mean to pple who dont see the world the same way as you, then we dont need you. i am sure there are some train tracks around your house or somethign you can find.
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Post by a believer on Jul 6, 2006 17:20:45 GMT -5
HI Daisy
The 2x2s are too brain washed to believe the truth.
I actually knew the man who dealt with all the accounts and affairs of the workers. It was not the worker himself although he had a big say in it.
Get well fast.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2006 17:54:48 GMT -5
Thanks from Daisy.
I think anyone with two brain cells could look at this and know that it takes organization and money to run. The mystery is why so secretive? And why all the denial? This group is weird in my opinion.
The actual organization at least under Eldon was meticulous. He kept his estate moneys in long term low yield investments and used the earnings to fund his overseas missions. These add up to a lot more than people think, in 1992, ET told Daisys dad that he needed to earb interest of around 3 million per year to support overseas efforts. All this income comes from the investment of estates. This way, he is assured he can support his business, no matter what. As most of the church funds are tied up long term, the wealthy friends end up supplying shortfalls emergencies etc. It works out well, and is nothing to be ashamed of. Why so secretive? Why no accountability? No other group would have the audacity to gett away with it! The memb era LET these guys get away with it! Amazing!
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Post by whatever on Jul 6, 2006 18:05:34 GMT -5
Thanks from Daisy. I think anyone with two brain cells could look at this and know that it takes organization and money to run. The mystery is why so secretive? And why all the denial? This group is weird in my opinion. The actual organization at least under Eldon was meticulous. He kept his estate moneys in long term low yield investments and used the earnings to fund his overseas missions. These add up to a lot more than people think, in 1992, ET told Daisys dad that he needed to earb interest of around 3 million per year to support overseas efforts. All this income comes from the investment of estates. This way, he is assured he can support his business, no matter what. As most of the church funds are tied up long term, the wealthy friends end up supplying shortfalls emergencies etc. It works out well, and is nothing to be ashamed of. Why so secretive? Why no accountability? No other group would have the audacity to gett away with it! The memb era LET these guys get away with it! Amazing! the more you talk, the more it becomes apparent you dont know what you are talking about. you are making up grand stories to make yourself seem important. there is not any money like the types you are mentioning changing hands in the 2x2s. so if you want you can keep finding pple to lie too.. but most see right through it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2006 18:48:14 GMT -5
Hey, no need for a personal attack on my girl. Just because you are apparently not a member of the trusted inner financial circle, I guess that must mean it does not exist. Are there any ex workers here who served overseas? I am sure they can verify that their batch was paid for and they were regularly sent funds by their overseer. Miracle or good financial planning?
It does not matter what you believe, because it is true and will be true whether you believe it or not.
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Post by beg for funds on Jul 6, 2006 19:44:31 GMT -5
Hey, no need for a personal attack on my girl. Just because you are apparently not a member of the trusted inner financial circle, I guess that must mean it does not exist. Are there any ex workers here who served overseas? I am sure they can verify that their batch was paid for and they were regularly sent funds by their overseer. Miracle or good financial planning? It does not matter what you believe, because it is true and will be true whether you believe it or not. I think that the batches should not be paid for. Do like the other groups do, get up and beg for money. Tell people they need it for God, and then use it however you feel.
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Wake up and smell the coffee
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Post by Wake up and smell the coffee on Jul 6, 2006 20:22:54 GMT -5
They ARE telling it like it is. When we lived in a western state a few years ago, and the workers were planning to build a new dining hall/women's sleeping quarters that would cost $300,000, we questioned a relative who was helping plan it, as to where they would get the money, and he said that it was well taken care of because the workers had millions of dollars at their disposal and at further questioning as to where that came from, he also told us that it came from estates that were left to them by the friends.
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Post by ready to give on Jul 6, 2006 20:32:52 GMT -5
They ARE telling it like it is. When we lived in a western state a few years ago, and the workers were planning to build a new dining hall/women's sleeping quarters that would cost $300,000, we questioned a relative who was helping plan it, as to where they would get the money, and he said that it was well taken care of because the workers had millions of dollars at their disposal and at further questioning as to where that came from, he also told us that it came from estates that were left to them by the friends. If they need any more money, just ask and it will be there. If you know where I can send a few mill please post the mailing address of the ones I can make my check out to. Thanks in advance. It is wonderful to help out, isn't it.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 6, 2006 20:58:44 GMT -5
To Craig/Daisy I really applaud the good care you're doling out to Daisy, Craig. Restricting her temptation to work. What type work does she do? And you?
Could you just read my PM to her, so she can be thinking about it???
Thanx, Cherie
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