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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Apr 7, 2011 12:44:15 GMT -5
-> Jimmy Carter: Religion Makes Men Beat Their Wives< Religion not only makes men beat their own wives but makes men beat other men's wives too; Personally I am not at all opposed to discuss any topic but when the beliefs of each party are well known it is not something I bring up. It is like starting a conversation criticizing someone's choice in a spouse. Discuss.
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 7, 2011 14:39:15 GMT -5
Jesse Didn't Jimmy specialize in peanuts. I think thats perhaps where he is an expert. ken
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Post by ronhall on Apr 7, 2011 15:06:02 GMT -5
Jesse Didn't Jimmy specialize in peanuts. I think thats perhaps where he is an expert. ken He had a degree in electrical engineering, became an officer in the Navy, applied, studied to enter the nuclear submarine service and was accepted by none other than Admiral Rickover. It was after his acceptance interview that he wrote the book "Why Not the Best" based on a question the Admiral asked him during the interview. Good inspiring book, I'd have to say. Seems that the presidency was his level of incompetency from the theory that everyone in government service rises to their level of incompetency. That's why there is so much incompetency in government. :>) Whether it was because he ate too many peanuts, grew too many peanuts or read too many Peanuts comics, I'll never know. I've heard of people calling each other nuts, but not peanuts. However his comment blaming wife beating on religion makes me wonder! I think he needs to attend a series of Gospel Meetings.
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Post by apple on Apr 7, 2011 15:14:11 GMT -5
Religion can give people an excuse to do evil.It is the evil, not the religion unless the religion in particular is based on evil.
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Post by rational on Apr 7, 2011 16:15:20 GMT -5
-> Jimmy Carter: Religion Makes Men Beat Their Wives< Religion not only makes men beat their own wives but makes men beat other men's wives too; Personally I am not at all opposed to discuss any topic but when the beliefs of each party are well known it is not something I bring up. It is like staring a conversation criticizing someone's choice in a spouse. I believe Carter made a good point. Most of the bible does teach that women are to be treated as chattel. As does the koran. Lot was willing to offer his daughters to the crowd as an appeasement. And god saved god and his daughters. Once you get people to believe that a group of people is inferior, mistreating becomes much easier. The Israelite tribes and their enemies. The Germans and the jews. Many men and their women.
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Post by Sylvestra on Apr 7, 2011 17:24:36 GMT -5
Jesse Didn't Jimmy specialize in peanuts. I think thats perhaps where he is an expert. ken Would you actually trust JC with your nuts?!
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Post by Sylvestra on Apr 7, 2011 17:26:03 GMT -5
-> Jimmy Carter: Religion Makes Men Beat Their Wives< Religion not only makes men beat their own wives but makes men beat other men's wives too; Personally I am not at all opposed to discuss any topic but when the beliefs of each party are well known it is not something I bring up. It is like staring a conversation criticizing someone's choice in a spouse. I believe Carter made a good point. Most of the bible does teach that women are to be treated as chattel. As does the koran. Lot was willing to offer his daughters to the crowd as an appeasement. And god saved god and his daughters. Once you get people to believe that a group of people is inferior, mistreating becomes much easier. The Israelite tribes and their enemies. The Germans and the jews. Many men and their women. I'd love to be my husband's "chattel". He takes really good care of his things!!
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Post by sharonw on Apr 7, 2011 18:16:51 GMT -5
Jesse Didn't Jimmy specialize in peanuts. I think thats perhaps where he is an expert. ken He had a degree in electrical engineering, became an officer in the Navy, applied, studied to enter the nuclear submarine service and was accepted by none other than Admiral Rickover. It was after his acceptance interview that he wrote the book "Why Not the Best" based on a question the Admiral asked him during the interview. Good inspiring book, I'd have to say. Seems that the presidency was his level of incompetency from the theory that everyone in government service rises to their level of incompetency. That's why there is so much incompetency in government. :>) Whether it was because he ate too many peanuts, grew too many peanuts or read too many Peanuts comics, I'll never know. I've heard of people calling each other nuts, but not peanuts. However his comment blaming wife beating on religion makes me wonder! I think he needs to attend a series of Gospel Meetings. I'm not sure Gospel Meetings will prevent wife beatings....it was known back in the early 1910-20's that many of the men and women that professed got the advice that they shouldn't spare the rod on the children and some of the older workers even so much as advised the men to take the upper hand of their whole family and get it in line with the fellowship.....I know of at least 2 families where after professing the husband/father took up child beating and wife beating as well...they were of the impression that they had to literally beat the truth into their wives and children. And these two men had never done that to their wives or children before hearing "the Gospel mtgs."
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Post by ronhall on Apr 7, 2011 18:26:43 GMT -5
Sylvestra! Go to your room and stand in the corner! :>)
Good points, though. Honesty and integrity were characteristics of JC.
I admire guys like your husband -- my wife would never say that about me. I'm one that tends to run my things into the ground, then just do enough repair to keep them functional.
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Post by ronhall on Apr 7, 2011 18:38:30 GMT -5
I'm not sure Gospel Meetings will prevent wife beatings....it was known back in the early 1910-20's that many of the men and women that professed got the advice that they shouldn't spare the rod on the children and some of the older workers even so much as advised the men to take the upper hand of their whole family and get it in line with the fellowship.....I know of at least 2 families where after professing the husband/father took up child beating and wife beating as well...they were of the impression that they had to literally beat the truth into their wives and children. And these two men had never done that to their wives or children before hearing "the Gospel mtgs." I've heard some of the same thing. I've even been called a milquetoast because I supported my wife's decision to get a college degree before we started a family. What comes to my mind is those workers were not preaching the Gospel -- it must have been something else! :>(
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Post by sharonw on Apr 7, 2011 18:43:52 GMT -5
I'm not sure Gospel Meetings will prevent wife beatings....it was known back in the early 1910-20's that many of the men and women that professed got the advice that they shouldn't spare the rod on the children and some of the older workers even so much as advised the men to take the upper hand of their whole family and get it in line with the fellowship.....I know of at least 2 families where after professing the husband/father took up child beating and wife beating as well...they were of the impression that they had to literally beat the truth into their wives and children. And these two men had never done that to their wives or children before hearing "the Gospel mtgs." I've heard some of the same thing. I've even been called a milquetoast because I supported my wife's decision to get a college degree before we started a family. What comes to my mind is those workers were not preaching the Gospel -- it must have been something else! :>( No, the workers went by what part of the bible that spoke to them...such as sparing the rod spoils the child and God corrects those of us He loves....something about it proves a person's love for their family by using that rod...regardless.....again the workers were men/women who'd never been in the family way and couldn't bring the scripture to the family way people to fit them but brought the scripture to them as they who were not of a family thought things should be.
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Post by What Hat on Apr 7, 2011 19:42:13 GMT -5
Well, actually, Carter did not say that. He said this:
Carter said he doesn't fault religions for oppressing women, but blames men who selectively interpret the Bible and other scriptures. He suggested there are other, more flexible interpretations. (http://www2.wnct.com/lifestyles/2011/apr/07/carter-says-religious-leaders-discriminate-against-ar-927649/)
Anyway, FoxNation got it wrong so I can't blame Jesse. They link to the original article which has the proper headline: "Carter says religious leaders discriminate against women"
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 7, 2011 20:10:18 GMT -5
Jesse Didn't Jimmy specialize in peanuts. I think thats perhaps where he is an expert. ken Would you actually trust JC with your nuts?! no
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Apr 7, 2011 20:10:32 GMT -5
In the interest of being fair and balanced, Carter did use the "b" word; "Carter said such teachings ["that women are inferior in the eyes of God."] by "leaders in Christianity, Islam and other religions" allow men to beat their wives and deny women their fundamental rights as human beings." I suppose you could say we men have come a long ways since Paul said women should keep silence in the church. Women could speak, pray, and even lead meetings before they could vote. That's pretty progressive. Personally I'd have to say it would be my loss to not have heard what the ladies have had to say, they think differently and I like to hear what they think about things.
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 7, 2011 20:12:48 GMT -5
Rat Said Once you get people to believe that a group of people is inferior, mistreating becomes much easier Is this similar in regards to denominations and f&ws?? ken
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 7, 2011 20:15:22 GMT -5
Sylvestra! Go to your room and stand in the corner! :>) Good points, though. Honesty and integrity were characteristics of JC. I admire guys like your husband -- my wife would never say that about me. I'm one that tends to run my things into the ground, then just do enough repair to keep them functional. I think all of the above were/are true but he lacked political savy. Iran response/12% inflation amongst other problems JMO Ken
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Post by rational on Apr 7, 2011 20:45:04 GMT -5
Jesse Didn't Jimmy specialize in peanuts. I think thats perhaps where he is an expert. ken Would you actually trust JC with your nuts?! I do not pretend to speak for christians but it would seem they would trust Jesus Christ with anything.
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Post by rational on Apr 7, 2011 20:54:52 GMT -5
No, the workers went by what part of the bible that spoke to them...such as sparing the rod spoils the child and God corrects those of us He loves. Does the bible actually say this? I seem to recall that it first appeared in the mid 1600s in a poem by Butler. Although Proverbs does recommend beating children with a rod. Makes you wonder about Solomon's child care ability!
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Post by rational on Apr 7, 2011 20:57:16 GMT -5
Rat Said Once you get people to believe that a group of people is inferior, mistreating becomes much easier Is this similar in regards to denominations and f&ws?? ken Of course. Anytime there is a "us and them" idea set up there is the superior-inferior feeling. I mean, why would you ever believe you belong to the inferior group?
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Post by kencoolidge on Apr 8, 2011 5:05:15 GMT -5
Rat Said Once you get people to believe that a group of people is inferior, mistreating becomes much easier Is this similar in regards to denominations and f&ws?? ken Of course. Anytime there is a "us and them" idea set up there is the superior-inferior feeling. I mean, why would you ever believe you belong to the inferior group? Rat In this world terms like poor in spirit,meek are considered weakness and from that standpoint maybe inferior to this world. ken
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Post by sharonw on Apr 8, 2011 7:01:51 GMT -5
In the interest of being fair and balanced, Carter did use the "b" word; "Carter said such teachings ["that women are inferior in the eyes of God."] by "leaders in Christianity, Islam and other religions" allow men to beat their wives and deny women their fundamental rights as human beings." I suppose you could say we men have come a long ways since Paul said women should keep silence in the church. Women could speak, pray, and even lead meetings before they could vote. That's pretty progressive. Personally I'd have to say it would be my loss to not have heard what the ladies have had to say, they think differently and I like to hear what they think about things. Thanks, Jesse, that's a very nice thought...this reminded me of what Jacob's mother did and how she prevented his father from doing that which was not God's will...also I think that Solomon's mother was very active in his reign as king and there are other mothers who were very much into the will of God....like Abigail, she didn't wish evil or harm on her abusive husband at all...but he brought about his own destruction....then Abigail was free to be the king's wife.
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Post by sharonw on Apr 8, 2011 7:13:56 GMT -5
No, the workers went by what part of the bible that spoke to them...such as sparing the rod spoils the child and God corrects those of us He loves. Does the bible actually say this? I seem to recall that it first appeared in the mid 1600s in a poem by Butler. Although Proverbs does recommend beating children with a rod. Makes you wonder about Solomon's child care ability! I don't wonder about him caring for children...the story of the two mother's fighting over one babe and Solomon's wisdom in handling that....when I read that it sure takes a lot of wisdom and guts to do what he did...what IF the women had not changed their attitude when he said he would cleave the child into two pieces so they both could have a part of the living babe....course babe wouldn't have been living long. Pro 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Pro 23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Pro 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame. Pro 29:17 Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul. Hbr 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Hbr 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Apr 8, 2011 7:21:55 GMT -5
However his comment blaming wife beating on religion makes me wonder! I think he needs to attend a series of Gospel Meetings. I think the trauma from the rabbit attack may have influenced his mindset on this.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2011 7:45:21 GMT -5
Of course. Anytime there is a "us and them" idea set up there is the superior-inferior feeling. I mean, why would you ever believe you belong to the inferior group? Rat In this world terms like poor in spirit,meek are considered weakness and from that standpoint maybe inferior to this world. ken Nope, that is not what I meant. There is a 'smugness' that develops when people belong to a group, especially one that is somewhat exclusive. When Jesus sent people out to spread the word, he told them that if people in cities did not accept them that the city would end up worse than Sodom. And if you are in the group that is heaven bound - you naturally will look on those who are not in the group differently than those in the group. You have the superior position. You are right and they are wrong. Everyone knows what happened to Sodom and all those poor folk. While the NT is not as outspoken, the OT is filled with tales of god being on the side of the believers and crushing, to the last child, the unbelievers. How many battles have been waged with the soldiers on both sides being certain of victory because "god is on our side"? If the meek will inherit the earth and you are on the 'meek' team then it places you in a position of superiority. You are going to be the rulers. If the poor in spirit are blessed then god is on your side and, given that god is omnipotent and omniscient, that puts the believer in the superior position. Would people want to belong to a group that did not hold some superiority over another group? People do not join church "A" if they believe that church "B" has a better chance of getting them into heaven.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2011 8:14:31 GMT -5
I don't wonder about him caring for children. Using the rod is mentioned at least 6 times in Proverbs attributed to Solomon. Would you put your children in a childcare situation where there were multiple references explaining how beating a child with a rod would bring about good results? Is it your belief that because the bible promotes corporal punishment, and even killing children in the case of their showing disrespect towards their parents, that imposing discipline on a child by physically hurting them by spanking/hitting/striking is permissible? I think the key word here is 'story'.
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2011 8:22:09 GMT -5
Good points, though. Honesty and integrity were characteristics of JC. I have always believed that the points that made Carter a viable candidate for president also made him a poor choice for president. Following Watergate and Việt Nam honesty in government was like a breath of fresh air but I believe that to be an effective president the person has to have a certain moral flexibility which Carter lacked.
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Post by Scott Ross on Apr 8, 2011 8:51:45 GMT -5
If the meek will inherit the earth and you are on the 'meek' team then it places you in a position of superiority. You are going to be the rulers. If the poor in spirit are blessed then god is on your side and, given that god is omnipotent and omniscient, that puts the believer in the superior position. If you read all the beatitudes, and along with that all the teachings of Jesus (which I know you have) and then actually apply them to your life...... you realize that....nope.... you aren't in a superior position. You are in a position of justified, sanctified and saved, but that is the same position that everyone is in for following those teachings. Likewise since the least will be the greatest, and we are to love everyone as we love ourselves, and put others before us.... well you are NOT in a position of superiority over others. Would people want to belong to a group that did not hold some superiority over another group? People do not join church "A" if they believe that church "B" has a better chance of getting them into heaven. Anybody that joins a church because they think that the 'church' has a better chance of getting them into heaven obviously doesn't understand the teachings of the bible. If that is why they join that particular church, then they are placing their faith in the church rather than in Jesus. As trevybear would point out about now...... go read your bible.... Scott
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Post by rational on Apr 8, 2011 9:35:13 GMT -5
Likewise since the least will be the greatest, and we are to love everyone as we love ourselves, and put others before us.... well you are NOT in a position of superiority over others. But you are in a group that will be greatest. That is a position of superiority. You can look at the others who think they are great right now and know they will soon be under your heel. If you had two churches to choose from and looked at the doctrine of the churches and felt that church "A" was closer to the teachings of the bible than church "B" would you choose to become a member of church "B"? Or would you choose the church that will give you the support, encouragement, and correct guidance you need to make into heaven? Would you choose a church that taught that bikers were low-life scum? No. That church is full of jerks! And you do not want to be a jerk (an assumption on my part).
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