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Post by ex-teenager on Mar 13, 2011 7:31:51 GMT -5
I don't know who to address this to, maybe those who have been in the work are the best people to ask!
Recently I have been noticing more and more the amount that workers and in particular some of the overseers.
I notice one that travelled all around Europe in 2007 and also Pakistan the same year. Then back to Europe on another round and of to Sri Lanka.
This is in less than four years. I calculate the cost in flights alone to be at least 1000's of dollars on one man. Calculate this across at lease 30-40 workers and you have a significant travel cost.
I can see in some ways why, but what I don't understand is why its usually the same few.
My questions:
Do workers see travel as a perk of the job? Do those who don't get to travel feel jealous? Is it considered a privilage to travel to these conventions?
I know some would say they wouldnt want to speak in 20 conventions, but some of these guys are natural speakers and seem to enjoy it.
I can only ever dream of travelling to all the countries some of these workers get to regularly.
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Post by Gene on Mar 13, 2011 9:08:05 GMT -5
Yes, yes and yes.
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 13, 2011 9:53:59 GMT -5
Was that worker a high up overseer?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2011 9:59:00 GMT -5
High up overseer as opposed to just an overseer?
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Mar 13, 2011 14:24:32 GMT -5
My questions: Do workers see travel as a perk of the job? Do those who don't get to travel feel jealous? Is it considered a privilage to travel to these conventions? I know some would say they wouldnt want to speak in 20 conventions, but some of these guys are natural speakers and seem to enjoy it. I can only ever dream of travelling to all the countries some of these workers get to regularly. You ask some good questions, ex-teenager. And, as always, there is no simple answer that is accurate for every worker. Their own travel patterns and attitudes toward it vary. I can speak only of how I experienced it, which includes things I heard expressed by others - co-workers at the time. Your three questions are heavily intertwined in my view, and I'll answer them in that way . . . I know that we often spoke together of travel as a privilege - we even had lists of "out-of-state privileges." As others have mentioned, it was work, in the sense of speaking responsibility. Now, I find it very easy to speak of what I believe, but in the work I often felt there were so many conflicting ideas, and I allowed myself to be in bondage to what others thought - or more accurately to what I heard them say or the implications I picked up. This made speaking a very heavy burden. And this is not just how I felt about it - this kind of thing was often discussed among us as peers. Sometimes it took on tones of "I feel moved to speak about this, but is here at the convention, and I don't know nearly as much as him about it."
I'm referring a lot to speaking here because it relates much to the travel - that's what the traveling is for. And I hope to convey the thought that the travel is not lightly done.
But, having said that, yes, I firmly believe there is a feeling of competition. Maybe I can best express this by telling of the time, just a day or two before a Buttonwillow, CA convention, when D.ick Middleton came to me, asking me to help him go over several speaking lists - Buttonwillow 1 & 2, Santee 1 & 2, Casa Grande, and possibly in coordination with the earlier California conventions at Mtn Ranch also.
I was astounded that he asked me, as there was generally this kind of secretive aura around this list in California (not necessarily in other places). I have a lot of respect for this man, and part of it is because I saw right there how he agonized over trying to be fair and kind to everyone, yet knowing of the feelings that would be there if someone felt things weren't "right" on the list. Part of it was ensuring that the California workers each spoke at 3 out of 4 conventions, and most of us would have been happy to have been given fewer, but there is generally a sense too of watching who gets certain meetings - Sunday morning, gospel meetings, etc.
And this isn't just something peculiar to California - we're talking here about a list involving visitors from other states and countries. The thing I most particularly remember D.ick agonizing over is ensuring that no one visiting older brother spoke in fewer Sunday morning meetings than another one of his age. And this wasn't just to ensure that no one was "overworked." D.ick specifically stated that there would be real feelings if one older brother felt he didn't get as many Sunday morning meetings as another older brother.
So . . . travel. I think many of these feelings regarding speaking can be extended to travel. A worker knows it's going to be a working trip, and not a vacation. And yet, many would feel rather put out if they weren't given the same "privileges" as another. Lists are viewed and talked about in ways like "Oh! You're going to . . . that's wonderful." But, humans that we are, we were always comparing too. I had my pride in this too, and I did end up traveling to foreign special meetings and conventions before many of my contemporaries because I was working out here in the Pacific, so was included in some Asian "rounds." And overseers tried diligently to give us all the same number of out-of-state privileges. And I know that if I thought others were getting more than I, I began to wonder what was wrong with me. It's a competition in a way, but it can also turn into feelings of "I'm no good."
But, a word of caution here too - there are some very Godly workers too, who are content to remain wherever, not receiving a lot of attention, humbly serving in what they see as their place.
As relating specifically to travel, I know that out here in the Pacific, we probably flew more than most other workers, anywhere in the world. We sometimes joked that our 'field car" was a Boeing 727. This obviously cost, but we were well aware of this, and of the fact that the field itself could not support the travel expenses - it was paid for by help from our overseers. We often planned out a year's flying at one time, so as to keep costs down as much as possible. This basically entailed an annual Hawaii-Marshall Islands-Pohnpei-Guam and back loop. We could purchase it as one ticket with stops, which was considerably less expensive than purchasing many hops in various directions.
So yes, it's work and a privilege, there is competition and there is humility, there are some who are mindful and careful of expense, while some may be less so - in my experience anyway.
And, I can personally think of some who just plain didn't like to travel, particularly in foreign lands. And there are others (like me), who love traveling among different peoples in different lands, trying different foods . . .
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tex
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Post by tex on Mar 14, 2011 9:11:23 GMT -5
Appreciate your thoughts and experiences, Al. It appears these days the workers spend more time traveling than before. A significant amount of time is spent attending special meetings and conventions in other states and countries in addition to the in-state ones. This results in a very broken-up year in their assigned fields. It goes something like this - in-state special meetings for one month or so, back in the field for a month or so, out of state special meetings for a month or so, back in the field for a month or so, then out of state conventions, then in-state preps and conventions for three months or so, and so on.
I know of someone who doesn't attend meetings that wanted to speak to the workers but couldn't because they were gone. He also expressed a desire to speak to a brother worker about his situation, but there were no brother workers nearby and the overseer was overseas (no pun intended).
It just seems the priority for the workers has changed from spending time in their assigned fields to traveling to special meetings and conventions. Just wondering how workers/exworkers feel about this or do they even think about it.
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Post by Alan Vandermyden on Mar 14, 2011 13:51:16 GMT -5
Appreciate your thoughts and experiences, Al. It appears these days the workers spend more time traveling than before. A significant amount of time is spent attending special meetings and conventions in other states and countries in addition to the in-state ones. This results in a very broken-up year in their assigned fields. It goes something like this - in-state special meetings for one month or so, back in the field for a month or so, out of state special meetings for a month or so, back in the field for a month or so, then out of state conventions, then in-state preps and conventions for three months or so, and so on. I know of someone who doesn't attend meetings that wanted to speak to the workers but couldn't because they were gone. He also expressed a desire to speak to a brother worker about his situation, but there were no brother workers nearby and the overseer was overseas (no pun intended). It just seems the priority for the workers has changed from spending time in their assigned fields to traveling to special meetings and conventions. Just wondering how workers/exworkers feel about this or do they even think about it. An interesting observation, Tex, and reflecting on it does bring some connections to mind. I can look back and see this "trend" beginning during my last few years in the work, and it was born of something that I and numerous others saw as positive - the desire to "unite the Kingdom," which for us had immediate significance in terms of the East/West "divide" in the U.S., but also extended in a more general way to the entire planet. I believe this significant shift took place in California when Uncle D.ick took on responsibility in California, and I believe it was done in a sincere desire to heal. Of course, this is just from a California perspective, and it entailed the introduction of new, younger overseers in other regions too. I too have noticed this - that between travel and projects on the convention grounds here, the workers year is very chopped up. This relates to Guam/Micronesia too, with the workers out there coming to California and Hawai`i for conventions every year. This adds up in time and monetary terms. And of course, here in Hawai`i, with each pair of workers responsible for two islands, their time is even more chopped up, where on the continent workers often conduct meetings/visit within a larger region simultaneously. While I once viewed the "uniting of the Kingdom" as positive, I see possibilities of the "consolidation of control" in it too. I suppose that's like most things in life - they need to be considered, and sometimes (often, always?) adjusted . . . 3/15/2011 - A note of explanation: The name "D.ick" refers to D.ick Middleton, and I placed the period in his name so the program wouldn't convert it to "Richard." Richard is his given name, but we all knew and loved him as "Uncle D.ick." Also, I continue to call him "Uncle" because a lot of my love and respect for him grew here in an island situation, where these terms (Uncle and Aunty) are commonly used for any elder - kupuna - and not only for workers. Uncle D.ick worked here in Hawai`i for many years, he loved my friends here, they knew he loved them, and they loved him . . .
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Post by CherieKropp on Mar 15, 2011 12:17:25 GMT -5
High up overseer as opposed to just an overseer? Yes. There are a few overseers of overseers...these men report directly to the Highest Overseer; i.e. Barry Barkley in the Eastern USA. It would seem reasonable to me that men in this role might need to travel more to meet with their underlings...similar to Wm Irvine traveling around the world each year to visit his chief workers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2011 13:10:40 GMT -5
cheriekropp, gotcha...wasn't sure if that's what you were referring to or not.
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Post by emerald on Apr 2, 2011 17:53:55 GMT -5
Tommie Gamble was told by senior workers overseas to send more Irish workers abroad on convention tours otherwise visits from foreign workers would all but cease. For years Irish workers tended not to travel abroad much but it has changed much and I daresay there are more foreign workers than ever visiting Ireland. It's got to be good for all, even if there are questions such as ex-teenager has raised.
Walter Milligan has had a few overseas trips and when he returns, he is pleased to share all the highlights with the friends - snorkelling, scuba-diving, pot-lucks etc. It seems the friends overseas do their best to entertain visiting workers. Perk of the job? I'd say so, but when you are non-salaried, there needs to be perks?
Incidentally, it is the social aspect that the workers talk about when they return to these shores. Perhaps they think we get enough spiritual talk at missions, meetings and conventions.
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