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Post by exVic on Feb 18, 2011 17:50:50 GMT -5
It's become increasingly obvious that there was more than just one isolated incident of worker perpetrated CSA in Victoria and that the friends have known about it, witnessed it and for years covered it up by refusing to speak out!
Why?
Surely they know that CSA is wrong (even if committed by a worker). The inaction in my opinion is just as wrong as the CSA itself!
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Feb 19, 2011 3:58:30 GMT -5
Agreed, exVic. Unfortunately there is not yet a mandatory reporting requirement for ministers of religion in Victoria so there is no legal recourse for failing to report.
Until there is, there is nothing to compel them to report the crimes but their evil, wicked conscience.
Call me cynical, but I believe the recent flurry of activity in the USA with special workers meetings etc has more to do with overseers realising they could go to jail for failing to report than any real change of heart towards the victims or against the offenders.
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Post by exCic on Feb 19, 2011 5:36:41 GMT -5
Yes - South Australia is currently the only state in Australia with mandatory reporting for church ministers. I'm wondering if the workers in South Australia have developed protocols for dealing with the mandatory reporting issue. Anyone prepared to share here?
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Post by landdownunder on Feb 19, 2011 6:02:20 GMT -5
There are no such protocols in South Australia, unless they're hidden in the top secret folder.
Nor have there been any known cases of sexual abuse of children by workers in South Australia.
The mandatory reporting requirement on ministers of religion should ensure that any instances of CSA that come to the attention of workers here are quickly reported to authorities.
Elsewhere as pa1ag1 has implied, there is a real fear of workers going to gaol for failing in their duty to act when they are made aware of a perpetrator in their midst.
Many workers act as if they are far more fearful of police and state authority in these matters, than they are of God.
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Feb 19, 2011 9:31:14 GMT -5
Many workers act as if they are far more fearful of police and state authority in these matters, than they are of God. If they were faithful in their place there would be no scramble to ensure that they appear to be doing something. |
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Post by ozzie on Feb 22, 2011 21:42:56 GMT -5
Hi all
In fact, a number of years ago a senior male worker was put out of the work in SA in the late 1980s / early 1990s after being found guilty of fiddling with young girls.
He later married and died in NSW. He has been gone about 12 years now poor old coot.
The offences would have been in the 1980s I believe (although I believe he was known for doing the same thing for a number of years prior to that).
I think the fact he was put out was also partly to do with the fact that he was pretty eccentric 'odd-ball' and probably a bit of an embarassment to the powers that be - and it was a good reason to give him the flick more than anything else.
I actually was swimming with him at a 'picnic' at a beach near Adelaide back in the late 1970s (I was about 19) when he got into trouble in the surf. I rescued him and brought him back to shore (didn't apply mouth-to-mouth though). He often would thank me for that.
AH
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elle
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Post by elle on Feb 22, 2011 23:23:28 GMT -5
I think I know how you mean (BD?) and I'm astonished! I always thought it was just his oddball nature and eccentricity that resulted in him leaving the work. I guess its another example of the way things used to be dealt with- nothing out in the open and no warning to potential victims in their new location.
South Aust is not without its CSA cases of course, but perhaps none recently. I know a senior male worker who was put out of the work and sent back to Queensland in the early 1980's after several parents brought to light his activities with their daughters in their homes and on the convention grounds. I and my family were closely associated with some of them (and I was the victims age, lucky me for my escape!) so I knew about it, but most didn't, and certainly not the friends in the town in Queensland where the perp went. Again, an example of how it used to be dealt with.
May more transparent and humble approach to CSA in the fellowship continue to grow.
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Post by DumSpiroSpero on Feb 23, 2011 15:15:08 GMT -5
Hi elle, I'm not about to start a witch hunt, but did this one that was sent to Qld continue in the work? I grew up in Qld, left there in the late 90s but still have family there.
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elle
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Post by elle on Feb 23, 2011 19:58:43 GMT -5
Not as far as I know. I did hear he ended up as an elder of a fellowship meeting in one of the regional towns/cities, but this is hearsay. I didn't keep in touch with him! I'm not even sure he is still alive.
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Post by ozzie on Feb 23, 2011 20:29:47 GMT -5
I think I know how you mean (BD?) and I'm astonished! I always thought it was just his oddball nature and eccentricity that resulted in him leaving the work. I guess its another example of the way things used to be dealt with- nothing out in the open and no warning to potential victims in their new location. South Aust is not without its CSA cases of course, but perhaps none recently. I know a senior male worker who was put out of the work and sent back to Queensland in the early 1980's after several parents brought to light his activities with their daughters in their homes and on the convention grounds. I and my family were closely associated with some of them (and I was the victims age, lucky me for my escape!) so I knew about it, but most didn't, and certainly not the friends in the town in Queensland where the perp went. Again, an example of how it used to be dealt with. May more transparent and humble approach to CSA in the fellowship continue to grow. Yes, it was BD.  Sadly  Actually I liked him as a person and have fond memories of chats with him at convention on all sorts of subjects in the 1990s (when I was in my 30s). Doesn't change the reality of his wandering digits though. I do remember keeping a close eye on our daughters whenever he and his wife G. visited us (they llived in Goulburn NSW in latter years and we lived and still in Canberra - 100 kms away). I also know a lot of the back story to a lot more men 'leaving the work' over the years. Not to mention naughty elders and so on across several states (and not a few either, including a maternal uncle by marriage who was / maybe is a serial abuser over about 60 years or more). And of course even without mentioning widespread CSA by F&Ws, there has been and are plenty cases of the other going on behind the scenes (you know, involving consenting or only slightly consenting adults - as in pressure to 'give one's all' if you get my drift). Only the ones we know about. My folks also personally know well many (now) women whom EB has abused in Victoria over the years (I think the older ones would have been in their teens at the time). Of course it is really rather weak that only one person has been willing to come forward to testify in that case.  Even weaker and more despicable is it that a number of non-victim 'friends' in Victoria haven't got either the brains, basic decency or courage to stand up to these predators or even acknowledge the seriousness of their crimes. They are, by denying, minimising or 'carpet-sweeping' what has happened (including counselling people to shut up and forget about it), instrumental in enabling and encouraging perpetutation of the same behaviours. I totally understadn victims not wanting to reive the trauma, but 1 out of 13 willing to come forward and call a spade a spade? Hard to believe a nuymber weren't pressured to keep quite for the 'sake of the kingdom'. Whatever 'kingdom' it may be, it is more the workers' kingdom than it is anyone else's it would seem. At least with Noel H in NSW there were a few more people (still only a relatively small number of victims) who came forward. If the true extent were known he would never have been let out of prison as he was recently. Both my wife and I have a number of aunts, cousins etc in the work and a lot of family members in the meetings. In fact, a much-loved and admired cousin of mine is a senior peripatetic (moves around a lot) worker who is ex-SA now a senior worker in NSW. I continue to have a very high regard for him although I rarely hear directly from him these days. I understand that he would also know a lot more about what really has gone on and continues to go on in Vic, SA, NSW and elsewhere too, I am sure. - it was thru him that I got to know about BD when we were still inside the cardboard walls of the meetings when we were therefore 'privileged' to hear a lot more of the inside 'goss'..!  A lot more could be said but I can't be bothered. Thank God our family is no longer bound to the false claims about the workers' unique role in our salvation! The only 'Kingdom', 'Way' and 'Truth' we look to is the person and work and reign of Jesus Christ himself, not a self-appointed hierarchy of men and women whose blinkers against the reality of God's BIG work in the world are bigger than any willingness to examine their own claims for what they really are - overblown, self-referencing and self-justifying. AH |
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Post by spiders on Feb 24, 2011 1:04:17 GMT -5
Hi ozzie, thanks for posting your experiences with CSA by the workers. It seems that SA has been "flying under the radar" and is not immune from this scourge of sexual immorality and child abuse.
You mentioned that "My folks also personally know well many (now) women whom EB has abused in Victoria over the years"
Have they spoken to these victims and encouraged them to report their abuse to the authorities?
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Post by Ozzie on Feb 24, 2011 17:36:27 GMT -5
Hi Spiders,
In answer to your query as to whether my folks have approached any of these women - a lot of them are now mature women with families of their own and have the support of their own husbands and families presumably, and can make up their own minds about whether and how they choose to proceed.
My folks, who are both elderly themselves and not in the best of health, would not presume to counsel these women one way or the other.
My folks are absolutely empathetic to the situation of these women / girls and also totally aghast at the things that have happened , but they also would take the view that the women concerned know what their options are. I know my mum in particular is the first to get alongside others to empathise and comfort, but she would not advise people to go forward or otherwise. She is a heartfelt carer but also believes in people's right to choose their own path.
I happen to be aware that some of the victims have suffered bad psychological after-effects and would be traumatised by having to go through it all in a court situation, or even if providing depositions.
That is why I said earlier, I can understand why they would not want to come forward. I was just questioning I suppose the fact that only 1 out of 13 (that we know of) has been willing to do so -have any of the others been unduly pressured not to come forward when they may well have been prepared to do so?
Hope this helps. By the way, my mum and dad are both still in the meetings, and accept our family's choice to worship and fellowship elsewhere.
AH
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moline
Junior Member
Posts: 132
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Post by moline on Feb 27, 2011 20:48:22 GMT -5
The Sargent of police in Warragul that is prosecuting this case would like others to come forward , but unless he has some form of contact he cannot do any thing, so if anyone has any firm base of complaint please help this man do his job. at the moment I believe he has only one complainent there is not a lot of time as the case is on march 20 at 10 am
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moline
Junior Member
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Post by moline on Feb 27, 2011 20:55:53 GMT -5
On another thread , we had BD in our meeting in our home when he came to our area They left here and went to NSW
he was a very difficult person and we felt very sorry for the inoffensive ,meek lady he married , she had a terrible time I think. I knew him as he grew up
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mrws
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Post by mrws on Feb 28, 2011 4:43:52 GMT -5
are you sure it is on the 20 of march i think its a sunday,
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Post by Scott Ross on Feb 28, 2011 9:24:36 GMT -5
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Post by Not Sure on May 19, 2012 2:10:27 GMT -5
  I have recently moved interstate to escape the friends and workers in another state. I have been harassed for over 10 years since I left the truth. They feel that they have an obligation for me to go back to the meetings. I recently met some of the friends and they were very friendly. After the visit the started pushing me to go back to meetings. I declined and now it has progress to the workings trying to ring and visit.?!! Not sure what to do? I DO NOT WANT THEM IN MY LIFE OR WANT TO GO BACK TO MEETINGS.  I now want to move again to be rid of them. Not only have I wanted to escape because of past CSA also because of there brainwashing and frightening behaviour. Can someone give me some advise on what to say? I want to scream and say GO AWAY
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Post by emmarr75 on May 19, 2012 6:24:27 GMT -5
Hi not sure
An excellent book to read is "Boundaries" - I think it's written by Townend.
Feel free to pm me.
Regards
Emma
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Post by Brianna on May 20, 2012 8:17:35 GMT -5
Hi NOTSURE,
If you recognise the phone number, dont answer it. If they come to the door - dont open the door. You will recognise them -should be fairly easy if annoying.
If they are persistent, tell them you will have them charged with stalking. Maybe talk to your local copper if need be.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 20, 2012 18:22:40 GMT -5
I have recently moved interstate to escape the friends and workers in another state. I have been harassed for over 10 years since I left the truth. They feel that they have an obligation for me to go back to the meetings. I recently met some of the friends and they were very friendly. After the visit the started pushing me to go back to meetings. I declined and now it has progress to the workings trying to ring and visit.?!! Not sure what to do? I DO NOT WANT THEM IN MY LIFE OR WANT TO GO BACK TO MEETINGS. I now want to move again to be rid of them. Not only have I wanted to escape because of past CSA also because of there brainwashing and frightening behaviour. Can someone give me some advise on what to say? I want to scream and say GO AWAY
How to handle it? Maybe take a page from "Annie's Mailbox."
Paraphazed)"Nobody can make you do something if you don't want to."
If someone calls say, "Oh I'm so sorry, I'm doing to be doing something else on that date." No need to tell them what (it isn't their business) But if you want to be creative say "I'm going on an expedition to Anartic & will be gone for six months." etc. etc.
What ever, just don't let it get to you. |
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Post by rational on May 20, 2012 19:25:22 GMT -5
I DO NOT WANT THEM IN MY LIFE OR WANT TO GO BACK TO MEETINGS. ......GO AWAY Have this printed on cards and give it to them. The truth works wonders. If you have been doing this kabuki dance for 10+ years you might want to step back and examine your actions. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity! A. Einstein |
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Post by Greg on May 20, 2012 19:26:00 GMT -5
I have recently moved interstate to escape the friends and workers in another state. I have been harassed for over 10 years since I left the truth. They feel that they have an obligation for me to go back to the meetings. I recently met some of the friends and they were very friendly. After the visit the started pushing me to go back to meetings. I declined and now it has progress to the workings trying to ring and visit.?!! Not sure what to do? I DO NOT WANT THEM IN MY LIFE OR WANT TO GO BACK TO MEETINGS. I now want to move again to be rid of them. Not only have I wanted to escape because of past CSA also because of there brainwashing and frightening behaviour. Can someone give me some advise on what to say? I want to scream and say GO AWAY
How to handle it? Maybe take a page from "Annie's Mailbox."
Paraphazed)"Nobody can make you do something if you don't want to."
If someone calls say, "Oh I'm so sorry, I'm doing to be doing something else on that date." No need to tell them what (it isn't their business) But if you want to be creative say "I'm going on an expedition to Anartic & will be gone for six months." etc. etc.
What ever, just don't let it get to you.Or...."I'm reading John Long's journal on the internet about the friends and workers first days with William Irvine. Can I call you back?" |
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Post by N ot Sure on May 24, 2012 3:16:21 GMT -5
;D Thanks for some of the advise I think. I find so hard that someone who is very friendly, has conditions on friendship. All very manipulative I think. It is sad to think that because of the conditions put to me, that I have to reconsider the friendship. Does god have conditions on friendship. This person told me she HAD TO ASK ME!! Like she felt uncomfortable in asking this of me( to go back to mtgs) Well feel like I am in a awkward position now. Didn't really need this. Anyway yes it probably is my fault as I was the one who said HI |
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Sadly 
I have recently moved interstate to escape the friends and workers in another state. I have been harassed for over 10 years since I left the truth. They feel that they have an obligation for me to go back to the meetings. I recently met some of the friends and they were very friendly. After the visit the started pushing me to go back to meetings. I declined and now it has progress to the workings trying to ring and visit.?!! Not sure what to do? I DO NOT WANT THEM IN MY LIFE OR WANT TO GO BACK TO MEETINGS. 
I now want to move again to be rid of them. Not only have I wanted to escape because of past CSA also because of there brainwashing and frightening behaviour. Can someone give me some advise on what to say? I want to scream and say GO AWAY
