Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2010 2:39:57 GMT -5
Hi all. Been a busy time on the TMB!
There was an animated debate about problems with standing vs sitting churches, with Clearday giving the howler that Workers “aren't equipped with the knowledge or skills to do that so the fear of anger and chaos is what prevents good changes.”
We had C.Kropp pose the curious question “Who among the F&Ws do the workers consider TROUBLEMAKERS? She then remarked, “BTW, I ran across the term "trouble causers" yesterday in some old notes I was reading.” (Did the Workers write to her?)
Paul Abenroth told us that the Workers rejected the “doctrine of the Fall” in part because they found out it was also Catholic doctrine. (It makes you wonder about every other doctrine of the Catholics.)
And as for the New Testament urging us to “obey” them which have the “rule” over us, we are informed by Clearday that this merely means we should be “persuaded” by the Workers – though he himself isn’t persuaded.
And we are informed by Jesusonly’s website link that the “Doctrine of the Nicolaitans” was really about Greek grammar. We are told, in that hoariest of excuses (ie the notorious “Greek Translation”) that this evil doctrine was really about obeying the Workers.
And we heard from Alexander how the Workers took the meeting away from an elderly couple and they were dead within a year.
Most hilarious, scary and biblically ignorant quote.
Funniest quotes.
Particularly dishonest and nasty quotes.
Most interesting quotes.
Best ironic or Freudian quote.
Best historically observant quote.
Most contradictory quotes.
Best Unanswered Questions (recall that the Workers are supposed to be incapable or unwilling to answer questions?)
Most relevant and thoughtful quote.
Funniest winners to date:
• No loving God would decree that people be stoned for any reason.
• The F&Ws have all the latest devices so they no longer have a "competitive advantage" on the supposed holiness that comes from not having a TV.
• It looks like people like to still have a sort of priesthood. That is an old notion that has stayed with us. A notion likely, again, preserved by the catholic church and handed to the protestants. So the workers hung on to it also.
• re ownership of a TV) … inspired jealousy in those who did not possess such things. Jealousy, the green eyed monster is what needed preaching against and not every novel item of technology. IMO.
• The joe average six pack worker lives a double life.
• It would seem in the Christian dimension there are workaholics, and there are graceaholics. The workaholics work themselves to death and then receive their reward, the graceaholics chill by the pool with a cold one, and receive the same reward.
• Try to get a worker or much less an overseer to leave conventions to go and help one person. I have tried. I get the same response with several overseers. "Too busy"
• When a senior worker asserted that King James English is "honorific English" it seemed best to leave him in his ignorance
• I think one thing I did not learn while in the fellowship and that was the desperate need to pray that God would increase my faith in Jesus Christ
• A worker once said to me "our usefulness is in fitting in". That could be said for any dictatorship.
• The joe average six pack worker lives a double life.
• .. there are workaholics, and there are graceaholics. The workaholics work themselves to death and then receive their reward, the graceaholics chill by the pool with a cold one, and receive the same reward.
• Most 2x2s wouldn't stop to help like the Samaritan did -- it would make them late for gospel meeting
• 2x2 sister workers are too homely to attract mates
• Workers asked us to trade bedrooms because they felt ours was warmer than theirs.
• It's unfortunate that we have to rely on the hymns to keep Jesus in the meetings.
• What God has preserved in our Bible hardly compares to what a few people have researched about the church history
• peasants in South America who brought bread in from the fields to meetings, which was far richer and more wholesome than the workers got from their (King James's) bibles
• I get frustrated when I hear preachers begging for money to support themselves and the missions abroad
• Newsflash! Jesus was God; the word made flesh. Workers are just, well...workers.
• Workers over here back in the 60's believed they were Jesus in the 20th century. After all, he was only a man....and well...so are we !
• Seems like I remember there is a worker that owns some oil wells in Texas.
• The fact that the original 12 didn't go out 2x2 probably explains why there is no evidence that 2x2 was part of the Acts of the Apostles.
• I submit they (workers) are referring to their choice to be celibate ministers is what gives them their alleged special revelation and authority.
• I would imagine that skipping gospel meetings is sending a pretty strong message to some of the workers. If people aren't willing to go listen to the same ol' same ol', it won't be long before the homes open to them becomes fewer also.
• … facing one's fear with positive views/input is the way to overcome the false guilt that the professing woman's uniform has instilled in many women.
• It seems to me that the friends steer clear of scriptural discussions as they subconsciously realise that they will be out of their depth…
• We have heard different accounts of how dogs wouldn't bark when saints enter the meeting home
• I have personally attended many, hundreds, of gospel meetings where Christ was not mentioned at all.
• I know some women who wouldn’t shave under thair (sic) arms without asking the workers permission first.
• Forcing children to eat is considered part of breaking their wills and teaching them to submit to parental authority. If they refuse or cannot, the workers view it as rebellion.
• They (the women) submit to the men of the group who tend to wear dark-colored clothes and carry black-covered King James Versions of the Bible.
• I think that fear of reprisal is a big reason for the turnout (at convention)
• Wasn't Willie Irvine a coal miner before he found the mother lode in the pockets of his followers?
• Yes, the 2x2's will continue. But in the end.....one will be left, the other taken.
• Workers drown cats.
• The 2x2 copy and paste bible is not in my library anymore.
• The fact is the more I focus on Christ, the less I go to the gospel meetings because I really don't hear about Him there. The more I focus on Jesus the less I want to go to Sunday AM meeting because He isn't the focus He needs to be.
• I suggested (to a worker) that you can never go wrong preaching about salvation. He looked at me like I had 3 eyeballs and said "that's a subject that would REALLY get me in trouble".
• In our town those who had the intention to get baptized used to get a list of do's and don’ts before they qualify
• (re workers) The friend's bedrooms are safer and more comfortable than the ghettos.
• freedom at last..........no workers peeking in the windows at my TV, or novel, or radio, or curling iron, etc
• The 2x2 church which I became a member of was an organisation. It had an HQ and a mailing address and produced a little book of member's names and telephone numbers
• (Workers live with) those who "open their homes", violating the trust, sanctity, sacred intimacy, and the sacred father and the sacred mother figure.
• After much prayer and meditation, it seemed to me that the one doing the baptism was God. The workers simply held my head in the creek
• In the 1960’s or 1970’s the workers initiated the “quietness program” before the start of meetings.
• 70-something years old elder's wife quipped to our overseer, "Oh - pish! Do you think we women can't tell when a man has a hard-on through his jeans? Where is the modesty there?"
• Professing ladies' buns fall down in car accidents.
• Professing people deceive and advocate deceit when they pretend they drink alcohol by carrying round a half empty glass.
• New people coming to gospel meetings who endure off-key mournful singing are hardly going to view that "difference" as Godly, perhaps the opposite
• One person wasn't accepted into the work because of his teeth.
• 84 year old lady upset in confrontation with a worker for having family pictures instead of worker pictures on her piano.
• As a kid it embarrassed me that men carried their bibles and hymn books in handbags to Sunday meetings.
• Some are groomed to be workers because they may not be able to get real jobs or are too ugly to find a mate.
• Workers criticise clergy for wearing clerical garb but we see so many brother workers wearing tight, grey cardigans.
• In the olden days, the workers would have crashed a party on Saturday night.
• Professing boy streaked at the football game
• The workers do not claim to be "penniless." They were to get their money out of the "mouths of the fish they caught."
• I wanted to rip my clothes off and go outside to enjoy the day that God gave than sit in dressy clothes around a dining room table talking about workers.
• These days Workers delay baptising teenagers to show the youth who is boss.
• Workers don’t raise the dead.
• In my 2x2 childhood cracking your knuckles was pure evil.
• A 2x2 child was told that black people are the curse of Ham for looking at Noah
• A Worker or Overseer said some ladies leaving a church wearing pant suits were surely going to hell
• Membership of the 2x2 way has increased only slightly or started to decline because God only requires 144,000 souls.
• Workers have cell phones. Jesus doesn't have a phone. You can just talk right to Him anytime, any place
• Friend was told to pray for his former wife’s death rather than bother the workers with requests to remarry
• If you only need a building just once a year then your church is not very blessed by God.
• In recent times TV is okay by all accounts and watched in holes by workers.
• Professing lady stepped over her husband's body (not professing) to go to Sunday meeting
• Workers prevent people from bursting forth in the Holy Spirit by restricting their time to give testimonies.
Best cognitive dissonance quotes to date:
• One way to enhance the value of an object is to make it a limited edition (or distribution, in this case). Perhaps that is the reason. (re “Why are convention speaking lists so “secretive”)
• The fellowship needs to encourage young people to enter by thanking workers when they leave.
• … exclusivity amongst the overseers is probably not an elephant in the room because it is the sacred cow.
• They never told me that the truth fellowship went back to the shores of Galilee. Of course it can be argued that they never told me it didn't, so therefore perpetuated a lie.
• the abomination is not in what they wear. It says what they do is the abomination.
• No Godly spirit has a spirit of criticism.
• The church in the home, and the preacher without a home" is not what saves us. Salvation is knowing God the Father and his son Jesus Christ, hearing and obeying God's word.
• "The true church" is not in the Bible.
• I don't care for Bert's lists very much because it seems like he uses them to degrade people.
• William Irvine founded the F&W's sect upon the Matthew 10 principle. Some other Christian churches are founded upon the chief corner stone, Jesus Christ
• The vast majority of what you see as contradictions are not. They are merely two separate true statements sitting side by side.
• If workers preached Jesus only then it wouldn't matter about the history (of Irvine).
• And there is a lot of bare leg and cleavage. Young women are quite sexy, which I don't think Christians of any denomination would approve of.
• It was Paul and not the BIBLE who said what he said about woman's subjection and several other things related to women.
• It's amazing how many people will try to live solely by the bible, and ignore what's been written on our hearts.
• George Peterson said Mary wrapped Jesus in swaddling clothing to deprive him of his human nature.
• (Regards copying the example of the New Testament church) A copy is a counterfeit. I prefer the real thing.
• (In reply to “Workers often ask the friends to have brief testimonies”) and this is another way workers show they are more important than everyone else because they don't have to condense their thoughts to fit into 1 or 2 minutes.
• There was a high level of sell about going into the work. Single people were targeted with the message of considering the noblest thing in life… To not consider going into the work, if you were young and single, was almost tantamount to going against God's will for your life… A quite subtle recruiting campaign …
• The only way that the worker way cares about the inside of a person is that they have to make themselves meek, child-like, willing, with a soft heart, all of which means being open to conforming to the worker rules and then they call this conforming the work of God on a person's life.
• God does not do religion
• God wants me to look like the world except modest to show a difference by His Spirit, not by outward appearance.
• Just because a pastor gets paid doesn't make him a hireling.
• Workers should never talk about what is wasting time if they are not prepared to offer lots of activities that makes time productive.
• With a Sunday meeting, a Wednesday meeting and two gospel meetings the friends don't have a chance to let the spirit of Christ work.
• I sometimes spoke about my disbelief in the trinity in the meeting. The workers warned me to believe in the trinity or go, so I went.
• Convention buildings and land belong to the workers. But it is not on a deed so therefore there is no tracing of it.
• They are stupid in wanting proof for what is clearly hearsay against them.
• Being ignorant of secret happenings within 2x2ism is a form of evidence there is something secret going on.
• Every member is aware of the suppression system, but part of being 'faithful', is denying that you are aware of it.
• The Bible says few find eternal life and this lead some of the 2x2’s to believe they are in the “narrow way” because they are few in number.
Most revealing quotes to date.
• If you take your doctrine only from the New Testament, your doctrine is going to be incomplete.
• There are lots of examples of Luke's imagination gone wild, but I confess it's the crazy impossibilities of Acts that taints my view of Luke as much as anything.
• Paul's invention, I think we can agree, was more radical than Irvine's.
• Anything that diminishes love is ungodly and deceitful -- including the hopeless religious attempts of bible-toter's to build and maintain love on the foundation of a marriage certificate
• God in the Old Testament did not have a great track record with the physical side of things.
• Several books of the bible seem to have been written under the influence of some sort of hallucinogenic.
• The flawed premise states that the 1st century church is the perfect pattern which is to be emulated in all details for all time. This is one of the primary fundamentals of the F&W church.
• 2x2's can be as wicked as they want to be when they get on the internet boards and don’t have to show respect.
There was an animated debate about problems with standing vs sitting churches, with Clearday giving the howler that Workers “aren't equipped with the knowledge or skills to do that so the fear of anger and chaos is what prevents good changes.”
We had C.Kropp pose the curious question “Who among the F&Ws do the workers consider TROUBLEMAKERS? She then remarked, “BTW, I ran across the term "trouble causers" yesterday in some old notes I was reading.” (Did the Workers write to her?)
Paul Abenroth told us that the Workers rejected the “doctrine of the Fall” in part because they found out it was also Catholic doctrine. (It makes you wonder about every other doctrine of the Catholics.)
And as for the New Testament urging us to “obey” them which have the “rule” over us, we are informed by Clearday that this merely means we should be “persuaded” by the Workers – though he himself isn’t persuaded.
And we are informed by Jesusonly’s website link that the “Doctrine of the Nicolaitans” was really about Greek grammar. We are told, in that hoariest of excuses (ie the notorious “Greek Translation”) that this evil doctrine was really about obeying the Workers.
And we heard from Alexander how the Workers took the meeting away from an elderly couple and they were dead within a year.
Most hilarious, scary and biblically ignorant quote.
(re definition of the “narrow way”) A narrow way, so narrow every person must walk it one at a time. Pilgrim
Funniest quotes.
Last big change in U.S. that I heard was no more praying into the chairs. Reply
Paul and Peter may have been chosen vessels but they also put in their own two cents worth… Open Mind
Only white men have enough of the guidance of the holy spirit to be overseers. TS
Paul and Peter may have been chosen vessels but they also put in their own two cents worth… Open Mind
Only white men have enough of the guidance of the holy spirit to be overseers. TS
Particularly dishonest and nasty quotes.
… when important issues come up responsibility is shirked to protect the status quo. TS
"Unity" at any cost, and unity is perceived to be found in maintaining the status quo. Clearday
I did look to some friends and family who were VERY "worldly" to keep me grounded. People who do not have an investment in keeping the system going have an odd way of cutting through the rubbish and seeing the truths along with the falseness. They are very valuable members of the body. TS
"Unity" at any cost, and unity is perceived to be found in maintaining the status quo. Clearday
I did look to some friends and family who were VERY "worldly" to keep me grounded. People who do not have an investment in keeping the system going have an odd way of cutting through the rubbish and seeing the truths along with the falseness. They are very valuable members of the body. TS
Most interesting quotes.
Paul and Peter may have been chosen vessels but they also put in their own two cents worth… OpenMind
When the original Greek is examined carefully the case for domination by clergy quickly evaporates. Jesusonly
"Problems" are taken care of by silencing those that raise the issue of the "problems". Alexander
The KJV was translated with an authoritarian bias so some portions of scripture SEEM to give support to a church hierarchy (code-named "God's Order" or "the descending order of submission" by workers). When the original Greek is examined carefully the case for domination by clergy quickly evaporates. Jesusonly
When the original Greek is examined carefully the case for domination by clergy quickly evaporates. Jesusonly
"Problems" are taken care of by silencing those that raise the issue of the "problems". Alexander
The KJV was translated with an authoritarian bias so some portions of scripture SEEM to give support to a church hierarchy (code-named "God's Order" or "the descending order of submission" by workers). When the original Greek is examined carefully the case for domination by clergy quickly evaporates. Jesusonly
Best ironic or Freudian quote.
The reason so few friends are really happy has a great deal to do with the fact that the once secure, ONE and ONLY Way has changed SO much and is continuing to change. Samantha
Best historically observant quote.
I don't think our particular form of doing church is anywhere to be found in Acts. Tulip2
Most contradictory quotes.
The 2x2 fellowship and the Catholic religion are remarkably similar in culture. Learning Patience
verses these:
The Truth is a product of the Victorian era of the British Isles. Shiloh
The Truth Fellowship is rife with Victorian traditions, customs, beliefs and lifestyle. The Truth (and other such groups around the late 1890s) became a vehicle to preserve ancient Victorian and even Puritan ideals. Shiloh
verses these:
The Truth is a product of the Victorian era of the British Isles. Shiloh
The Truth Fellowship is rife with Victorian traditions, customs, beliefs and lifestyle. The Truth (and other such groups around the late 1890s) became a vehicle to preserve ancient Victorian and even Puritan ideals. Shiloh
Best Unanswered Questions (recall that the Workers are supposed to be incapable or unwilling to answer questions?)
Shiloh - Jesus was an example of a minister, plain and simple. He left His home and went out preaching. He taught those who followed Him to do the same.
1 - Can you tell me what percentage of scripture involves ministry?
2 - Can you tell me what percentage of scripture involves the day to day affairs of the little home churches?
Shiloh: Does the bible have its stamp upon our fellowship?
Can you specify those parts which do?
Can you specify those parts which don't?
Shiloh (regards a Worker’s “harsh tone”)
Did Jesus ever preach in a harsh tone?
Did John the Baptist ever preach in a harsh tone?
Did Paul ever dress anyone down?
Did Peter ever preach about appearances?
What about Jude? Ever read Jude?
Did Moses ever get a tad irritated or annoyed?
What sort of entertainment did these guys enjoy?
Did God ever give correction, even just once?
If so, why didn't these people show any "compassion"?
Selah (re "why do we not accept other believers outside the fellowship?")
… I would like to put the question of "other churches" the other way around….
Where do you draw a line with acceptable religious beliefs?
Can you put all religious values along a line, beginning with the most severe of Christian interpretations, all the way through the Baptist, JW, Mormon etc. Then, out to Islamic and Judaic beliefs. Follow that by Buddhist, Hindu etc. Then to pagan beliefs and quasi religious cults like Scientology. Follow that with atheism and finally outright narcissists and nihilists.
Who doesn't have salvation? Who do YOU exclude?
1 - Can you tell me what percentage of scripture involves ministry?
2 - Can you tell me what percentage of scripture involves the day to day affairs of the little home churches?
Shiloh: Does the bible have its stamp upon our fellowship?
Can you specify those parts which do?
Can you specify those parts which don't?
Shiloh (regards a Worker’s “harsh tone”)
Did Jesus ever preach in a harsh tone?
Did John the Baptist ever preach in a harsh tone?
Did Paul ever dress anyone down?
Did Peter ever preach about appearances?
What about Jude? Ever read Jude?
Did Moses ever get a tad irritated or annoyed?
What sort of entertainment did these guys enjoy?
Did God ever give correction, even just once?
If so, why didn't these people show any "compassion"?
Selah (re "why do we not accept other believers outside the fellowship?")
… I would like to put the question of "other churches" the other way around….
Where do you draw a line with acceptable religious beliefs?
Can you put all religious values along a line, beginning with the most severe of Christian interpretations, all the way through the Baptist, JW, Mormon etc. Then, out to Islamic and Judaic beliefs. Follow that by Buddhist, Hindu etc. Then to pagan beliefs and quasi religious cults like Scientology. Follow that with atheism and finally outright narcissists and nihilists.
Who doesn't have salvation? Who do YOU exclude?
Most relevant and thoughtful quote.
If one doesn't want to be quoted for saying ridiculous things, then one shouldn't say ridiculous things. We will be responsible for every idle word. Alexander
Funniest winners to date:
• No loving God would decree that people be stoned for any reason.
• The F&Ws have all the latest devices so they no longer have a "competitive advantage" on the supposed holiness that comes from not having a TV.
• It looks like people like to still have a sort of priesthood. That is an old notion that has stayed with us. A notion likely, again, preserved by the catholic church and handed to the protestants. So the workers hung on to it also.
• re ownership of a TV) … inspired jealousy in those who did not possess such things. Jealousy, the green eyed monster is what needed preaching against and not every novel item of technology. IMO.
• The joe average six pack worker lives a double life.
• It would seem in the Christian dimension there are workaholics, and there are graceaholics. The workaholics work themselves to death and then receive their reward, the graceaholics chill by the pool with a cold one, and receive the same reward.
• Try to get a worker or much less an overseer to leave conventions to go and help one person. I have tried. I get the same response with several overseers. "Too busy"
• When a senior worker asserted that King James English is "honorific English" it seemed best to leave him in his ignorance
• I think one thing I did not learn while in the fellowship and that was the desperate need to pray that God would increase my faith in Jesus Christ
• A worker once said to me "our usefulness is in fitting in". That could be said for any dictatorship.
• The joe average six pack worker lives a double life.
• .. there are workaholics, and there are graceaholics. The workaholics work themselves to death and then receive their reward, the graceaholics chill by the pool with a cold one, and receive the same reward.
• Most 2x2s wouldn't stop to help like the Samaritan did -- it would make them late for gospel meeting
• 2x2 sister workers are too homely to attract mates
• Workers asked us to trade bedrooms because they felt ours was warmer than theirs.
• It's unfortunate that we have to rely on the hymns to keep Jesus in the meetings.
• What God has preserved in our Bible hardly compares to what a few people have researched about the church history
• peasants in South America who brought bread in from the fields to meetings, which was far richer and more wholesome than the workers got from their (King James's) bibles
• I get frustrated when I hear preachers begging for money to support themselves and the missions abroad
• Newsflash! Jesus was God; the word made flesh. Workers are just, well...workers.
• Workers over here back in the 60's believed they were Jesus in the 20th century. After all, he was only a man....and well...so are we !
• Seems like I remember there is a worker that owns some oil wells in Texas.
• The fact that the original 12 didn't go out 2x2 probably explains why there is no evidence that 2x2 was part of the Acts of the Apostles.
• I submit they (workers) are referring to their choice to be celibate ministers is what gives them their alleged special revelation and authority.
• I would imagine that skipping gospel meetings is sending a pretty strong message to some of the workers. If people aren't willing to go listen to the same ol' same ol', it won't be long before the homes open to them becomes fewer also.
• … facing one's fear with positive views/input is the way to overcome the false guilt that the professing woman's uniform has instilled in many women.
• It seems to me that the friends steer clear of scriptural discussions as they subconsciously realise that they will be out of their depth…
• We have heard different accounts of how dogs wouldn't bark when saints enter the meeting home
• I have personally attended many, hundreds, of gospel meetings where Christ was not mentioned at all.
• I know some women who wouldn’t shave under thair (sic) arms without asking the workers permission first.
• Forcing children to eat is considered part of breaking their wills and teaching them to submit to parental authority. If they refuse or cannot, the workers view it as rebellion.
• They (the women) submit to the men of the group who tend to wear dark-colored clothes and carry black-covered King James Versions of the Bible.
• I think that fear of reprisal is a big reason for the turnout (at convention)
• Wasn't Willie Irvine a coal miner before he found the mother lode in the pockets of his followers?
• Yes, the 2x2's will continue. But in the end.....one will be left, the other taken.
• Workers drown cats.
• The 2x2 copy and paste bible is not in my library anymore.
• The fact is the more I focus on Christ, the less I go to the gospel meetings because I really don't hear about Him there. The more I focus on Jesus the less I want to go to Sunday AM meeting because He isn't the focus He needs to be.
• I suggested (to a worker) that you can never go wrong preaching about salvation. He looked at me like I had 3 eyeballs and said "that's a subject that would REALLY get me in trouble".
• In our town those who had the intention to get baptized used to get a list of do's and don’ts before they qualify
• (re workers) The friend's bedrooms are safer and more comfortable than the ghettos.
• freedom at last..........no workers peeking in the windows at my TV, or novel, or radio, or curling iron, etc
• The 2x2 church which I became a member of was an organisation. It had an HQ and a mailing address and produced a little book of member's names and telephone numbers
• (Workers live with) those who "open their homes", violating the trust, sanctity, sacred intimacy, and the sacred father and the sacred mother figure.
• After much prayer and meditation, it seemed to me that the one doing the baptism was God. The workers simply held my head in the creek
• In the 1960’s or 1970’s the workers initiated the “quietness program” before the start of meetings.
• 70-something years old elder's wife quipped to our overseer, "Oh - pish! Do you think we women can't tell when a man has a hard-on through his jeans? Where is the modesty there?"
• Professing ladies' buns fall down in car accidents.
• Professing people deceive and advocate deceit when they pretend they drink alcohol by carrying round a half empty glass.
• New people coming to gospel meetings who endure off-key mournful singing are hardly going to view that "difference" as Godly, perhaps the opposite
• One person wasn't accepted into the work because of his teeth.
• 84 year old lady upset in confrontation with a worker for having family pictures instead of worker pictures on her piano.
• As a kid it embarrassed me that men carried their bibles and hymn books in handbags to Sunday meetings.
• Some are groomed to be workers because they may not be able to get real jobs or are too ugly to find a mate.
• Workers criticise clergy for wearing clerical garb but we see so many brother workers wearing tight, grey cardigans.
• In the olden days, the workers would have crashed a party on Saturday night.
• Professing boy streaked at the football game
• The workers do not claim to be "penniless." They were to get their money out of the "mouths of the fish they caught."
• I wanted to rip my clothes off and go outside to enjoy the day that God gave than sit in dressy clothes around a dining room table talking about workers.
• These days Workers delay baptising teenagers to show the youth who is boss.
• Workers don’t raise the dead.
• In my 2x2 childhood cracking your knuckles was pure evil.
• A 2x2 child was told that black people are the curse of Ham for looking at Noah
• A Worker or Overseer said some ladies leaving a church wearing pant suits were surely going to hell
• Membership of the 2x2 way has increased only slightly or started to decline because God only requires 144,000 souls.
• Workers have cell phones. Jesus doesn't have a phone. You can just talk right to Him anytime, any place
• Friend was told to pray for his former wife’s death rather than bother the workers with requests to remarry
• If you only need a building just once a year then your church is not very blessed by God.
• In recent times TV is okay by all accounts and watched in holes by workers.
• Professing lady stepped over her husband's body (not professing) to go to Sunday meeting
• Workers prevent people from bursting forth in the Holy Spirit by restricting their time to give testimonies.
Best cognitive dissonance quotes to date:
• One way to enhance the value of an object is to make it a limited edition (or distribution, in this case). Perhaps that is the reason. (re “Why are convention speaking lists so “secretive”)
• The fellowship needs to encourage young people to enter by thanking workers when they leave.
• … exclusivity amongst the overseers is probably not an elephant in the room because it is the sacred cow.
• They never told me that the truth fellowship went back to the shores of Galilee. Of course it can be argued that they never told me it didn't, so therefore perpetuated a lie.
• the abomination is not in what they wear. It says what they do is the abomination.
• No Godly spirit has a spirit of criticism.
• The church in the home, and the preacher without a home" is not what saves us. Salvation is knowing God the Father and his son Jesus Christ, hearing and obeying God's word.
• "The true church" is not in the Bible.
• I don't care for Bert's lists very much because it seems like he uses them to degrade people.
• William Irvine founded the F&W's sect upon the Matthew 10 principle. Some other Christian churches are founded upon the chief corner stone, Jesus Christ
• The vast majority of what you see as contradictions are not. They are merely two separate true statements sitting side by side.
• If workers preached Jesus only then it wouldn't matter about the history (of Irvine).
• And there is a lot of bare leg and cleavage. Young women are quite sexy, which I don't think Christians of any denomination would approve of.
• It was Paul and not the BIBLE who said what he said about woman's subjection and several other things related to women.
• It's amazing how many people will try to live solely by the bible, and ignore what's been written on our hearts.
• George Peterson said Mary wrapped Jesus in swaddling clothing to deprive him of his human nature.
• (Regards copying the example of the New Testament church) A copy is a counterfeit. I prefer the real thing.
• (In reply to “Workers often ask the friends to have brief testimonies”) and this is another way workers show they are more important than everyone else because they don't have to condense their thoughts to fit into 1 or 2 minutes.
• There was a high level of sell about going into the work. Single people were targeted with the message of considering the noblest thing in life… To not consider going into the work, if you were young and single, was almost tantamount to going against God's will for your life… A quite subtle recruiting campaign …
• The only way that the worker way cares about the inside of a person is that they have to make themselves meek, child-like, willing, with a soft heart, all of which means being open to conforming to the worker rules and then they call this conforming the work of God on a person's life.
• God does not do religion
• God wants me to look like the world except modest to show a difference by His Spirit, not by outward appearance.
• Just because a pastor gets paid doesn't make him a hireling.
• Workers should never talk about what is wasting time if they are not prepared to offer lots of activities that makes time productive.
• With a Sunday meeting, a Wednesday meeting and two gospel meetings the friends don't have a chance to let the spirit of Christ work.
• I sometimes spoke about my disbelief in the trinity in the meeting. The workers warned me to believe in the trinity or go, so I went.
• Convention buildings and land belong to the workers. But it is not on a deed so therefore there is no tracing of it.
• They are stupid in wanting proof for what is clearly hearsay against them.
• Being ignorant of secret happenings within 2x2ism is a form of evidence there is something secret going on.
• Every member is aware of the suppression system, but part of being 'faithful', is denying that you are aware of it.
• The Bible says few find eternal life and this lead some of the 2x2’s to believe they are in the “narrow way” because they are few in number.
Most revealing quotes to date.
• If you take your doctrine only from the New Testament, your doctrine is going to be incomplete.
• There are lots of examples of Luke's imagination gone wild, but I confess it's the crazy impossibilities of Acts that taints my view of Luke as much as anything.
• Paul's invention, I think we can agree, was more radical than Irvine's.
• Anything that diminishes love is ungodly and deceitful -- including the hopeless religious attempts of bible-toter's to build and maintain love on the foundation of a marriage certificate
• God in the Old Testament did not have a great track record with the physical side of things.
• Several books of the bible seem to have been written under the influence of some sort of hallucinogenic.
• The flawed premise states that the 1st century church is the perfect pattern which is to be emulated in all details for all time. This is one of the primary fundamentals of the F&W church.
• 2x2's can be as wicked as they want to be when they get on the internet boards and don’t have to show respect.