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Post by Did you know on Jul 1, 2006 12:25:07 GMT -5
We trusted the workers with a key to our home. Our home was their home. I have been thinking about the bond of trust between "saint" and "servant!"
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Post by selah on Jul 1, 2006 12:44:45 GMT -5
We had new-life disciples of Christ, who we had never met before, stay in our home when we weren't even there! They stayed the whole weekend!
Blessings, Linda
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juju
Senior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by juju on Jul 1, 2006 12:53:57 GMT -5
My hubby picked up a hitch hiker the other day in the pouring rain ...... and brought him home for the nite. He was a fun addition to have in our home!
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Post by GuestS on Jul 1, 2006 19:03:46 GMT -5
It's one thing to trust them with your "things".....it's quite another to trust them with your soul!
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Post by botany on Jul 5, 2006 13:05:55 GMT -5
The workers knew the code to open the garage door. However, when my parents recently replaced the garage door opener with a new punch pad, they never told me any code. They never have, and I doubt they ever will. I do not know for sure whether or not they let the workers know the code. My speculation is "yes", but that is only speculation and not backed up by fact. You'd think that parents might be able to trust their own children to enter their homes, especially when their children never abused the "privilege". But... ?? Oh well. Thus the woes of the "lost". andy
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Post by 33 on Jul 5, 2006 13:14:31 GMT -5
We had new-life disciples of Christ, who we had never met before, stay in our home when we weren't even there! They stayed the whole weekend! Blessings, Linda REALLY?!?! WOW.. there is definitly a place in heaven for you now..
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Post by selah on Jul 5, 2006 22:35:13 GMT -5
Thanks... If it seemed I was seeking glory by my comment, please note, I wasn't. I was only trying to draw a fair comparison, since many of the f&w often say....."theirs is the only fellowship that is like family, making it possible to travel all over the world and have spiritual family to take you in." Blessings, Linda
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Post by oh1 on Jul 5, 2006 23:19:17 GMT -5
Thanks... If it seemed I was seeking glory by my comment, please note, I wasn't. I was only trying to draw a fair comparison, since many of the f&w often say....."theirs is the only fellowship that is like family, making it possible to travel all over the world and have spiritual family to take you in." Blessings, Linda oh.. now i see what you were getting at.. why if you hate that group so much do you try to be like them? that odd..
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Post by selah on Jul 5, 2006 23:52:17 GMT -5
I do not hate that group...in fact I love it and them. I just do not love the things about it that are in error.
I do not try to be like them. I simply try to inform them that their exclusive ideas are wrong and damaging to the body of Christ, and the claims many of them make about other churches are often unfounded and untrue.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by hmmmm on Jul 6, 2006 1:50:13 GMT -5
I do not hate that group...in fact I love it and them. I just do not love the things about it that are in error. I do not try to be like them. I simply try to inform them that their exclusive ideas are wrong and damaging to the body of Christ, and the claims many of them make about other churches are often unfounded and untrue. Blessings, Linda sounds pretty judgemental to me. who are you to decide what they are doing that is wrong? i mean come on.. this board is full of exs beating up the truth for them having the belief that other pple are wrong. but here you are doing the same thing. everyone is the same.. all wrong.. but convinced they are right.
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Post by Trust on Jul 6, 2006 6:53:54 GMT -5
Someone wrote It's one thing to trust them with your "things".....it's quite another to trust them with your soul! I agree fully. Wonderful to trust people living the true Gospel.
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Post by ghost on Jul 6, 2006 9:00:48 GMT -5
I trusted a worker with the keys - and he tried to change the lock without my permission.
I trusted the keys to a worker - he proved to be an adulterer (fortunately not with my wife)
My brother in law trusted a worker with the keys - fortunately he came back home early, just before the worker tried to take away some valuable belongings.
I DO NOT TRUST THESE PEOPLE ! THEY LIE ABOUT PRACTICALLY EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE AND LEAD A SECRET UNACCOUNTABLE LIFE, COVERING UP ACTS THAT ARE PERSECUTED BY THE LAW ! Vade retro satanas ...
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Post by phew on Jul 6, 2006 10:32:45 GMT -5
I trusted a worker with the keys - and he tried to change the lock without my permission. I trusted the keys to a worker - he proved to be an adulterer (fortunately not with my wife) My brother in law trusted a worker with the keys - fortunately he came back home early, just before the worker tried to take away some valuable belongings. I DO NOT TRUST THESE PEOPLE ! THEY LIE ABOUT PRACTICALLY EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE AND LEAD A SECRET UNACCOUNTABLE LIFE, COVERING UP ACTS THAT ARE PERSECUTED BY THE LAW ! Vade retro satanas ... phew.. thanks for this post.. i never wouldve known. now after hearing this i will leave the 2x2s. because i know your post totally true... it couldnt be any other way. thank you so much. what is your address so i can worship you?
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Post by selah on Jul 6, 2006 10:44:55 GMT -5
[
It is not judgemental to examine teachings for truth and error. It is judgemental to pass judgement on people. I believe in my post I said it was their "ideas" I was considering wrong. Do you consider anything wrong? Is that judgemental?
Who am I to decide what's right or wrong? I am a child of the living God, and He, my Father, makes that decision. It is made extremely clear in His word that rejecting brothers and sisters in Christ is wrong, and that's what I was talking about...their exclusive ideas. (Not all of them believe this way). I don't reject the f&w as my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I do reject some of their teachings. I also reject some of the teachings in other churches.
It's false teaching I judge...not people.
I also mentioned that some things that are said about other churches are untrue and unfounded. This statement is not judgemental either. It is just a simple fact.
Blessings, Linda
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Maggie
Senior Member
Posts: 347
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Post by Maggie on Jul 6, 2006 10:47:14 GMT -5
....... I have been thinking about the bond of trust between "saint" and "servant!" I don't know what your definition of "saint" is or whether you consider your self one or not, but aren't we all "servants"? What follower of Christ or child of God would not be considered a "servant"? Don't we all serve and minister to the needs of one another? If you are using these terms in the standard accepted F&W way then you must mean that "servants" are the "workers" and that regular followers of Christ are not. Isn't this an ugly distortion of the beautiful meaning of these words?
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Post by ghost on Jul 6, 2006 11:37:32 GMT -5
phew.. thanks for this post.. i never wouldve known. now after hearing this i will leave the 2x2s. because i know your post totally true... it couldnt be any other way. thank you so much. what is your address so i can worship you? Register and send me a personal message - I will come back to you. No worship required, you can worship the ones who seek this kind of bonds, any cult creates.
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Post by to a gost on Jul 6, 2006 14:06:51 GMT -5
I trusted a worker with the keys - and he tried to change the lock without my permission.
I trusted the keys to a worker - he proved to be an adulterer (fortunately not with my wife)
My brother in law trusted a worker with the keys - fortunately he came back home early, just before the worker tried to take away some valuable belongings.
I DO NOT TRUST THESE PEOPLE ! THEY LIE ABOUT PRACTICALLY EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE AND LEAD A SECRET UNACCOUNTABLE LIFE, COVERING UP ACTS THAT ARE PERSECUTED BY THE LAW ! Vade retro satanas ...I have never heard of such nonsence. Has it happened. I don't know, but I seriously doubt it. The trash you post is but the figment of your imagination, but then I guess that is not surprising.
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Post by ghost on Jul 6, 2006 14:32:23 GMT -5
Everything I wrote did happen. Register and I will give you the names and places. Do not hide your head in the sand ...
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Post by interesting on Jul 6, 2006 14:47:02 GMT -5
[ It is not judgemental to examine teachings for truth and error. It is judgemental to pass judgement on people. I believe in my post I said it was their "ideas" I was considering wrong. Do you consider anything wrong? Is that judgemental? Who am I to decide what's right or wrong? I am a child of the living God, and He, my Father, makes that decision. It is made extremely clear in His word that rejecting brothers and sisters in Christ is wrong, and that's what I was talking about...their exclusive ideas. (Not all of them believe this way). I don't reject the f&w as my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I do reject some of their teachings. I also reject some of the teachings in other churches. It's false teaching I judge...not people. I also mentioned that some things that are said about other churches are untrue and unfounded. This statement is not judgemental either. It is just a simple fact. Blessings, Linda interesting thoughts and good point. i dont feel that most on this board share your logic. there seems to be a lot of venom each way. let me put you on the spot if you let me (you dont ahve to answer obvously).. i have been suprised with the fairly recent discovery of many people who do not feel that being a homosexual in a relationship and a christain is a problem. i cant for the life of me reconcile this logic because to me the teachings of scripture are sure. so i am asking you on your thoughts on this.
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Post by selah on Jul 6, 2006 20:22:04 GMT -5
I have no problem answering, so long as it's understood that this is what I believe at this point in time. I've learned from experience that sometimes new information will cause me to re-evaluate my position and perhaps change my view. This is true for everything I write.
Homosexuality is a topic that is much more complex than many people usually understand. My first response to your question is that I love people... period.
Is homosexuality a sin? First off, let me clarify. I mean the homosexual act...NOT...the person.
According to my understanding of scripture, to this point, I believe that the homosexual act is a departure from God's intended natural sexuality between male and female, and therefore is a sin, but don't stop reading here. I hasten to add that I do not believe that every homosexual person has deliberately chosen his/her sexual orientation. There is scientific evidence to suggest people can be born with a sexual orientation at odds with their physcial gender. So, if this is possible, perhaps it's also possible that people can be born with alternative sexual orientations. (I'm sorry I can't produce the articles I've read about this. I don't remember where they were, except for one, written by a Doctor that I read in "Christianity Today" magazine.) My personal research is so very limited about this. I've seen some stories on T.V. though. One story about hermaphrodites was particularly helpful to me in recognizing that we are not all born definite male or female.
If someone is born with homosexual tendencies, I believe it to be an abnormality, but not a sin. To act on the tendencies would be a sin according to my understanding of the Bible.
Sometimes, I've thought of the homosexual lifestyle to be cult-like in some ways. I realize I know little about this, so bear with me. I'm just writing what I've thought about.
I knew a man who wanted out of the lifestyle so bad, but psychologically he just couldn't do it. He said he wasn't sure that he'd been born homosexual, but when he was introduced to the lifestyle it appealed to him. There is a lot of stigma for one who has gone into it and then later wants to go straight. This man eventually killed himself.
A friend of mine, and brother in the Lord, lived the homosexual lifestyle until he accepted Jesus, and then he completely changed.
One more friend of mine, in his fashion, sometimes expresses himself as male, female and sometimes both at the same time. He uses a different name depending on which sex he desires to portray.
An acquaintance is undergoing a sex-change operation. He was married with grown children, and now has decided to become a woman.
Do I understand these complicated and very personal life situations? Do I have enough information to really make broad statements? No and No.
All I really do know is what I read in the Bible, and even there, my understanding is limited. Can a Christian engage in homosexual behavior? Can a Christian lie? Can a Christian commit adultery?
At this point I will say I do believe that a deliberate choice to engage in homosexual activity is a sin. I believe that sex, even heterosexual sex, outside of marriage is sin. And I do not believe in redefining marriage to include anyone other than one man and one woman.
My heart is filled with compassion for those who, beyond their own will, have found themsleves having to deal with such difficult choices in their lives. I think it's just plain sad that born homosexuals would have to restrain themselves all their lives from relationships, to prevent the "sinner" label; however, I don't know how to reconcile the lifestyle with scripture.
It is a dilemma. I have not had to deal with homosexuality in my own life, or in the lives of my family members. I wonder how I would deal with that? I wonder if my views would change? I wonder if I would investigate more thoroughly? I wonder.... ?
Blessings, Linda
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Post by agree on Jul 7, 2006 12:28:10 GMT -5
I have no problem answering, so long as it's understood that this is what I believe at this point in time. I've learned from experience that sometimes new information will cause me to re-evaluate my position and perhaps change my view. This is true for everything I write. Homosexuality is a topic that is much more complex than many people usually understand. My first response to your question is that I love people... period. Is homosexuality a sin? First off, let me clarify. I mean the homosexual act...NOT...the person. According to my understanding of scripture, to this point, I believe that the homosexual act is a departure from God's intended natural sexuality between male and female, and therefore is a sin, but don't stop reading here. I hasten to add that I do not believe that every homosexual person has deliberately chosen his/her sexual orientation. There is scientific evidence to suggest people can be born with a sexual orientation at odds with their physcial gender. So, if this is possible, perhaps it's also possible that people can be born with alternative sexual orientations. (I'm sorry I can't produce the articles I've read about this. I don't remember where they were, except for one, written by a Doctor that I read in "Christianity Today" magazine.) My personal research is so very limited about this. I've seen some stories on T.V. though. One story about hermaphrodites was particularly helpful to me in recognizing that we are not all born definite male or female. If someone is born with homosexual tendencies, I believe it to be an abnormality, but not a sin. To act on the tendencies would be a sin according to my understanding of the Bible. Sometimes, I've thought of the homosexual lifestyle to be cult-like in some ways. I realize I know little about this, so bear with me. I'm just writing what I've thought about. I knew a man who wanted out of the lifestyle so bad, but psychologically he just couldn't do it. He said he wasn't sure that he'd been born homosexual, but when he was introduced to the lifestyle it appealed to him. There is a lot of stigma for one who has gone into it and then later wants to go straight. This man eventually killed himself. A friend of mine, and brother in the Lord, lived the homosexual lifestyle until he accepted Jesus, and then he completely changed. One more friend of mine, in his fashion, sometimes expresses himself as male, female and sometimes both at the same time. He uses a different name depending on which sex he desires to portray. An acquaintance is undergoing a sex-change operation. He was married with grown children, and now has decided to become a woman. Do I understand these complicated and very personal life situations? Do I have enough information to really make broad statements? No and No. All I really do know is what I read in the Bible, and even there, my understanding is limited. Can a Christian engage in homosexual behavior? Can a Christian lie? Can a Christian commit adultery? At this point I will say I do believe that a deliberate choice to engage in homosexual activity is a sin. I believe that sex, even heterosexual sex, outside of marriage is sin. And I do not believe in redefining marriage to include anyone other than one man and one woman. My heart is filled with compassion for those who, beyond their own will, have found themsleves having to deal with such difficult choices in their lives. I think it's just plain sad that born homosexuals would have to restrain themselves all their lives from relationships, to prevent the "sinner" label; however, I don't know how to reconcile the lifestyle with scripture. It is a dilemma. I have not had to deal with homosexuality in my own life, or in the lives of my family members. I wonder how I would deal with that? I wonder if my views would change? I wonder if I would investigate more thoroughly? I wonder.... ? Blessings, Linda i have to say i agree with most of your idea on homosexuality. i am probably a little more certain then you appear to be to say its a sin (the act) like any other sin.. fornication, lieing, and adultry. so making a choice to engage in homosexual acts is choosing sin. i think the whole thing that says people are born with homosexual tendacies is fairly irrevelant. we are all born with a human nature and tendancies that directly against what God desires for our life. if we werent, serving him would be easy. it would not be a life of dying to our human nature. i do acknowledge that homosexuals do have a tough road in turning from the sin that is their vice.. but such is a persons lot in life. we have all weaknesses.. and god wants to help us overcome them in our service to him. just my opinion.
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Post by selah on Jul 7, 2006 13:12:57 GMT -5
I do believe that enaging in homosexual acts is sin. My only hesitation is the possibility that I have somehow misunderstood scripture. As I understand it right now, yes...I believe it is a sin.
I thought that the concept of some homosexuals being born that way was relevent to the discussion, because there is so much misunderstanding on this topic.
Yes, I agree, we are all born with tendancies to sin. However, we are not all born with an overpowering desire to have same-gender sex. Some are though. These have a greater battle than I do with this issue, and I wanted to make it clear, that there but for the grace of God go I.
Blessings, Linda
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Post by lloydswanson on Jul 7, 2006 14:34:28 GMT -5
homosexual activity starts in abottle
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Post by mrleo on Jul 7, 2006 14:34:43 GMT -5
Linda, I appreciate your thoughtful consideration of this issue...I would just like to add that as a gay person, I don't feel an overpowering desire to have sex. Certainly, I have a sex drive, but I don't believe it's any more revved up than the average person's. One of the challenges of being respected as a gay person is getting past the common perception that all gay people have a constant desire to, in all bluntness, "get laid"--that, to many people, is all that "gay" means, and they refuse to consider it in more complex terms. In reality (or at least in my reality), I want the same things most every human wants in terms of love and relationships: to love and be loved, to be romantic, to have a best friend (with and without benefits), to feel safe, to feel attached and responsible to and (in some ways) responsible for someone, for better and for worse, in sickness and in health, etc. and to share that person with the other people in my life that I love (my family and friends). How sickening is that?
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Post by depends on Jul 7, 2006 16:26:57 GMT -5
In reality (or at least in my reality), I want the same things most every human wants in terms of love and relationships: to love and be loved, to be romantic, to have a best friend (with and without benefits), to feel safe, to feel attached and responsible to and (in some ways) responsible for someone, for better and for worse, in sickness and in health, etc. and to share that person with the other people in my life that I love (my family and friends). How sickening is that? depends who want to have that relationship with.. now homosexuality is pretty accepted and ok.. years ago it was considered demented and insane. there was an article about a guy who loves his horse and wants to marry it. we consider him insane. will one day this be mainstream? no matter how you want to spin it.. homosexuality (just like fornication and adultry) is not ok with god
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Post by selah on Jul 7, 2006 16:30:47 GMT -5
Hi mrleo, Thanks for mentioning that, because you said what I meant better than I could. I really didn't mean my post to say that gay people have an over-powering sex drive. I meant that the attraction for same sex was stronger than for opposite sex...if there is a desire for opposite sex at all. I really don't know. And yes, I think many have over-powering "imaginations" concerning the lives of homosexual people.... Thanks and blessings, Linda
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timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Jul 7, 2006 20:37:35 GMT -5
Linda:
I just want to say that your responses and thoughts about homosexuality are among the most compassionate that I've read on this thread. Indeed - how can we understand completely such a complex issue.
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Post by Terry on Jul 7, 2006 21:04:25 GMT -5
Aren't all of the biblical references to homosexuality in the Old Testament--concurrent with the references to eating pork, drinking milk while eating meat, etc? I don't know of any reference to homosexuality in the NT. If we are to follow the OT teachings concerning Homosexuality shouldn't we also follow them concerning dietary rules? I, very recently, had a co-worker (professional not spiritual) arrested for exposing himself to men in a park soliciting sex. I was appalled--not because he was gay--I was pretty sure of that before--but because of his actions. I would have defended his right to be gay--but not his endeavors to find a partner. Exactly how I would have responded had he tried the same tactic with a female. If we take the OT laws literally--then we have to take them all literally--we can't pick and choose.
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