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Post by kiwi on Jul 29, 2010 1:29:21 GMT -5
hey VB, you can get it anyhow. Matter of fact I've got it now.. A hard earned thirst needs a big cold beer, and the best cold beer is Vic.. Victoria Bitter  James Boags is better! You are right.. Boags is better........and if you are in Brisbane XXXX is not too bad ;D I think I need something stronger than a beer after all that's going on Youz guys need NZ pure ;D |
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Post by JO on Jul 29, 2010 1:49:29 GMT -5
Peter as Pope is the result of misinterpreted scripture.
Matthew 16 (Amplified Bible)
13Now when Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, Who do people say that the Son of Man is?
14And they answered, Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.
15He said to them, But who do you [yourselves] say that I am?
16Simon Peter replied, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17Then Jesus answered him, Blessed (happy, fortunate, and [d]to be envied) are you, Simon Bar-Jonah. For flesh and blood [men] have not revealed this to you, but My Father Who is in heaven.
18And I tell you, you are [e]Peter [Greek, Petros--a large piece of rock], and on this rock [Greek, petra--a [f]huge rock like Gibraltar] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the [g]infernal region) shall [h]not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it].
19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind (declare to be improper and unlawful) on earth must be what is already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose (declare lawful) on earth [j]must be what is already loosed in heaven.(B)
d.Matthew 16:17 Alexander Souter, Pocket Lexicon.
e.Matthew 16:18 The rock on which the church is built is traditionally interpreted as either Peter's inspired confession of faith in Jesus as the Messiah, or it may be Peter himself (see Eph. 2:20).
f.Matthew 16:18 Kenneth Wuest, Word Studies.
g.Matthew 16:18 Kenneth Wuest, Word Studies.
h.Matthew 16:18 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
i.Matthew 16:19 Charles B. Williams, The New Testament: A Translation: "The perfect passive participle, here referring to a state of having been already forbidden [or permitted]."
j.Matthew 16:19 Charles B. Williams, The New Testament: A Translation: "The perfect passive participle, here referring to a state of having been already forbidden [or permitted]."
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Post by guest from NSW on Jul 29, 2010 4:23:46 GMT -5
I hope the letter gets sent to NSW friends, there have been some CSA cases there in the past. (discussed on this list)
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Post by from Vic on Jul 29, 2010 4:41:08 GMT -5
Have you seen the letter yet? we've not received it but I read it on Wings.
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Post by JO on Jul 29, 2010 5:21:18 GMT -5
Do any of you Aussies know what's going on with Australian overseers?Thanks everyone for praying for our overseers. As well as D&R, has another divide grown amongst us and preventing world unity? Several states in Australia now have a policy of instantly excommunicating any young woman (or man I suppose, but women have been the targets so far) who happens to marry an "outsider" (ugh, dreaded terminology). Where is the scripture? (I know I know about not being unequally yoked, but excommunication?) What encouragement could this be to a young married person? What witness is it to the unprofessing partner? Is it abuse of the young married person? Are workers aware of the displeasure amongst many of the professing people resulting from their actions? What support do they imagine they have? Workers who do this need prayers, and a blinding flash of vision.
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Post by rational on Jul 29, 2010 5:44:32 GMT -5
I was responding to your statement that his faith did not fail. It actually did. Peter did as Jesus said and then sank as expected. All I said is that his faith failed him. There are several ways to spin the story but at the end of the day you have the words of Jesus saying that Peter's faith failed him. When you quote something and post it it is assumed that it is something with which you agree. That you are using someone's writing to support your point of view. |
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elle
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Post by elle on Jul 29, 2010 6:29:56 GMT -5
any update on this letter?
Has the letter been sent? I'm presuming not because we haven't heard a thing about it yet in SA, the neighboring state. Has the alleged perp been to other states for conventions/visits?
Why didn't the overseer send it, as happened in the US? This would have carried a lot more weight with the Friends.
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jimmy
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Post by jimmy on Jul 29, 2010 8:06:00 GMT -5
Don't know any details of whats going on here but do know that the overseer in Vic/Tas is very unwell and would not be able to send any correspondence. As far as I've heard, noone has stepped into his place, waiting to see how he recovers.
Tragic if what is being reported here and on WINGS is true - assume it is. Prayers are with those affected and those workers that are true servants of God.
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aus1
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Post by aus1 on Jul 29, 2010 8:06:02 GMT -5
I agree Elle. I would have imagined this news would have spread like wildfire troughout each state, but it seems unusally calm.
maybe Scott could enlighten how the letters got distributed, from the USA or posted in Australia.
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aus1
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Post by aus1 on Jul 29, 2010 8:16:33 GMT -5
Jimmy, is JR the elder in Vic/Tas??
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Post by Linford Bledsoe on Jul 29, 2010 8:22:09 GMT -5
I agree Elle. I would have imagined this news would have spread like wildfire troughout each state, but it seems unusally calm. maybe Scott could enlighten how the letters got distributed, from the USA or posted in Australia. I agree back up what you state. My famous word credibility. |
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jimmy
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Post by jimmy on Jul 29, 2010 8:23:21 GMT -5
Yep JR is elder Vic/Tas
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Post by StAnne on Jul 29, 2010 8:31:18 GMT -5
All I said is that his faith failed him. There are several ways to spin the story but at the end of the day you have the words of Jesus saying that Peter's faith failed him. When you quote something and post it it is assumed that it is something with which you agree. That you are using someone's writing to support your point of view. Haydock Ver. 30. He was afraid. As long as Peter had his eye and faith fixed on Christ, the liquid element yielded not to his steps; but the moment he turns his thoughts on himself, his own weakness, and the violence of the winds and waves, he begins to lose confidence, and on that account to sink. Again his faith saves him; he calls upon the Lord, who stretcheth forth his arm, and takes hold of him. (Jansenius) --- By his confidence in God, we learn what we can do by the divine assistance; and by his fear, what we are of ourselves: also, that no one receives from God the strength he stands in need of, but he who feels that of himself he can do nothing. (St. Augustine, serm. 76.) haydock1859.tripod.com/id32.htmlWhen you quote something and post it it is assumed that it is something with which you agree. That you are using someone's writing to support your point of view.Wasn't mine entirely--it was quoted from Scripture Catholic link.
And that is why I added the entirely qualifier. |
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Post by StAnne on Jul 29, 2010 8:35:52 GMT -5
Peter as Pope is the result of misinterpreted scripture. Matthew 16 (Amplified Bible) 13Now when Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, Who do people say that the Son of Man is? 14And they answered, Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. 15He said to them, But who do you [yourselves] say that I am? 16Simon Peter replied, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17Then Jesus answered him, Blessed (happy, fortunate, and [d]to be envied) are you, Simon Bar-Jonah. For flesh and blood [men] have not revealed this to you, but My Father Who is in heaven. 18And I tell you, you are [e]Peter [Greek, Petros--a large piece of rock], and on this rock [Greek, petra--a [f]huge rock like Gibraltar] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the [g]infernal region) shall [h]not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it]. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind (declare to be improper and unlawful) on earth must be what is already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose (declare lawful) on earth [j]must be what is already loosed in heaven.(B)
d.Matthew 16:17 Alexander Souter, Pocket Lexicon.
e.Matthew 16:18 The rock on which the church is built is traditionally interpreted as either Peter's inspired confession of faith in Jesus as the Messiah, or it may be Peter himself (see Eph. 2:20).
f.Matthew 16:18 Kenneth Wuest, Word Studies.
g.Matthew 16:18 Kenneth Wuest, Word Studies.
h.Matthew 16:18 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon.
i.Matthew 16:19 Charles B. Williams, The New Testament: A Translation: "The perfect passive participle, here referring to a state of having been already forbidden [or permitted]."
j.Matthew 16:19 Charles B. Williams, The New Testament: A Translation: "The perfect passive participle, here referring to a state of having been already forbidden [or permitted]."Adding--because in a few posts following we have been politely asked to take the Catholic discussion to another thread--I will give a brief response to the anticipated response from JO. I have PM'd JO with my response. The issue of small rock and large rock is nothing more than a translation from the Aramaic spoken by Jesus (rock would have been Cephas) to a written translation in Greek. Explanations at the links--along with more background on the significance of the name change from Simon to Peter (rock) in one of the links. www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9811chap.asp www.catholic.com/library/Peter_the_Rock.asp www.catholic.com/library/Peter_and_the_Papacy.asp |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2010 8:45:53 GMT -5
StAnne, I am not Catholic of course, but I do admire your determination to stick up for your church.
We must interpret scripture for ourselves. To my reading Peter was simply one of the apostles. He had a hard time of it because he wanted to please James, the leader of the Jewish Christians and also please Paul, leader of the Gentile Christians. I don't see him as being a leader of anything, really.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 29, 2010 8:45:38 GMT -5
I agree Elle. I would have imagined this news would have spread like wildfire troughout each state, but it seems unusally calm. maybe Scott could enlighten how the letters got distributed, from the USA or posted in Australia. From the original posting on this thread: The following is an excerpt from a letter that will be sent to friends in Victoria and Tasmania, and also will be posted in its entirety on WINGS in the near future
It is referencing a worker that was discussed on another thread here on the board.
This excerpt is from the final copy based on knowledge of those professing folks that we have been assisting in this matter.
Those of you from the area in question may have been hearing about this, and how the workers there have been asking families if they have any knowledge of abuse which may have occurred to any family members. The workers have been working with the abuse survivors who have come forward, and the worker in question has been removed from the work.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
An open letter to Friends in Victoria and Tasmania
From WINGS staffxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx WINGS really hasn't been involved in any way other than assisting the professing folks that contacted us, and in posting this letter as requested. We will not be involved in the mailing of this letter, and the letter will be sent out by members of the church in the area. I personally do not know if the letter will be coming from the workers or from the friends, although of course it would preferable that that the workers send it out. As mentioned above, the overseer of that area has been sick and was not involved with the actions taken My understanding is that he has had a stroke and has been under medical care for that condition. Some names that I have heard of that are taking care of this are Peter Doecke (from the state W.A) and Bob Corbet (from Queensland) along with Victorian brother David Leitch. I should point out that those names came to me as the ones that have been contacting people about this, and not from the professing folks that reported this and asked to be put in contact with workers for help in this matter. Again, any mailing of this letter will be done by church members that are located there and not from WINGS. WINGS has simply assisted as asked. I WOULD like to point out that the workers have expressed that they are dedicated to taking care of this whole issue of abuse that was reported, and that their actions have backed up their words. They are to be highly commended for their diligence and hard work in taking immediate action when notified about this. I will keep you informed as to any mailing that may be going out and who it will be sent if I am informed. In the meantime, feel free to share the information or copy it and email it to those you feel should know about this issue. Scott  edit: I was told that it is Ray and not Bob..... So.... I could have a mistake in the names there..... sorry about that.... |
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Post by Scott Ross on Jul 29, 2010 8:49:17 GMT -5
Any chance that the Catholic church discussion could be done on a more appropriate thread?
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Post by StAnne on Jul 29, 2010 8:59:53 GMT -5
StAnne, I am not Catholic of course, but I do admire your determination to stick up for your church. Thanks Bert. |
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jimmy
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Post by jimmy on Jul 29, 2010 9:06:04 GMT -5
Thanks for update Scott.... those you hear are helping are workers I have the highest respect for and consider true servants of God.
Am quite upset at these developments as the worker I think is involved has been one I have had a bit to do with.... but am encouraged by the fact that this is being dealt with appropriately and not ignored as has happened too often in the past.
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aus1
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Post by aus1 on Jul 29, 2010 9:12:29 GMT -5
Peter Doecke is from Vic/Tas. So will be familair with all involved. This will really rock him as i am sure he has been quite close to the perpertrator for many years
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Post by Rob Sargison on Jul 29, 2010 15:11:20 GMT -5
You won't hear from the Vic workers this week. They're too busy obsessing about the rampant form of the AB's preceding their clash with the Wallabies in Melbourne Saturday night.
In fact I think they've called an extraordinary special Panic Meeting to discuss the issue.
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Post by aus guest on Aug 4, 2010 4:23:07 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the letter has been sent. i know PD and can hardly imagine him sending out such a letter.
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jimmy
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Post by jimmy on Aug 4, 2010 8:11:04 GMT -5
Does a letter need be sent? Have thought a lot about this case of recent days. I'm very saddened and shocked by this as I know the perpetrator moderately well. I've spent some soul searching moments and my thoughts have been with the victims.
The perpetrator has been removed from the work and it seems the meetings also which I believe is the appropriate course of action and any involvement of authorities should be supported. The issue has not been ignored and I am thankful for that.
However, I was thinking, is it in any ones best interest that his crimes/sins are displayed publically? I'm not sure that this sits with my christian beliefs. What would Jesus do in this situation? And I'm not sure it does any ones soul any good to dwell on the failings of another however atrocious these failings are.
My prayers are with those affected.
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mrws
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Post by mrws on Aug 4, 2010 17:59:32 GMT -5
exactly my thoughts
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Post by fellow aus on Aug 6, 2010 5:50:14 GMT -5
I also feel the same, very sad. i have heard E speak at conv and always enjoyed his message and delivery. What i can't understand is how is this gone on unoticed and unreported for so long. It is similar to SW who was in Singapore for many years. how did his companions never notice, or did they turn a blind eye. He was another good speaker who held your attention and had a refreshing message, but there was a hidden dark side to him. alll very sad for all concerned.
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Post by spiders on Aug 6, 2010 6:13:42 GMT -5
Does a letter need be sent? Have thought a lot about this case of recent days. I'm very saddened and shocked by this as I know the perpetrator moderately well. I've spent some soul searching moments and my thoughts have been with the victims. The perpetrator has been removed from the work and it seems the meetings also which I believe is the appropriate course of action and any involvement of authorities should be supported. The issue has not been ignored and I am thankful for that. However, I was thinking, is it in any ones best interest that his crimes/sins are displayed publically? I'm not sure that this sits with my christian beliefs. What would Jesus do in this situation? And I'm not sure it does any ones soul any good to dwell on the failings of another however atrocious these failings are. My prayers are with those affected. If you read the whole letter you would understand that its primary purpose is to alert people to the fact that a worker molested young children over many years and that parents need to talk with their children to see if inappropriate behaviour had taken place. There could be many people suffering silently and that knowing that others have come forward might give them the opportunity to begin a healing process. The victims can be highly traumatised and our primary concern is for their welfare. We also need to remember that what the perp has done is a criminal offence and that he is not above the law as Romans 13 makes clear. |
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Post by spiders on Aug 6, 2010 6:31:50 GMT -5
I also feel the same, very sad. i have heard the perp speak at conv and always enjoyed his message and delivery. What i can't understand is how is this gone on unoticed and unreported for so long. It is similar to SW who was in Singapore for many years. how did his companions never notice, or did they turn a blind eye. He was another good speaker who held your attention and had a refreshing message, but there was a hidden dark side to him. alll very sad for all concerned. It is bad enough to have CSA amongst the workers, but it is another thing to have it covered up by other workers. If this is happening on a wide scale then the whole fellowship is flawed. We need to realise that this is a serious criminal offence and not to treat it lightly. It is only when this is treated seriously that our fellowship can move forward. |
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Post by aus guest on Aug 6, 2010 8:02:17 GMT -5
Tasmania had about 500 people proffessing I guess. It cd be possible that every family unit here has a victim. I visited there about 20 years ago, lots of young families
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Prayers for all who have requested prayer, or for whom prayer has been requested.
