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Post by ts on May 9, 2011 23:58:33 GMT -5
I think from all accounts,TG has been widely mis-understood. I admire his strength to stand up for what he believes even if the liberals want to cut it down to nothing. He is by no means perfect, but has had a very tough year - one which a man half his age would struggle greatly with. Can you elaborate on how tough his year has been? I can tell you some CSA victims of workers who have had more than one tough year. We are supposed to bear one another's burdens. Is Tommy getting persecution for righteousness' sake? Then he can count it all joy. Is he taking heat because his brothers are doing wrong in the work? Then that is not suffering for righteousness' sake. Many cases of sexual activity among workers are getting exposed. In some cases these activities have been going on for many years. Hopefully TG as well as other overseers are getting more discernment about who they allow to be in the work and who they allow to continue in the work. No more hiding the misconduct. Rather have one honest worker than 1000 dishonest ones.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2011 10:36:59 GMT -5
Having known my share of abusive companions and overseers, I have constantly been reminded of the validity of this quote wherever it occurs:Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The more power bestowed, the closer one gets to absolute power. Many have sold out for power and come to crave absolute power. This is why the LORD taught in HIS Kingdom such things simply were not to be, while they would remain so amongst those gathering tares into bundles. [/size][/color]
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Post by emerald on Jul 26, 2011 17:05:40 GMT -5
Even as a broad generalisation, I think it works. Stop thinking of it being directed at workers and think of politicians for example.
It's easy to say its a broad generalisation, therefore has no merit but as most of us will never experience power to any great degree, it's impossible to say that any of us are less likely to abuse absolute power.
As for Tommie Gamble, I'd say he has absolute power. One well-respected senior worker (now dead) refused to attempt to address a problem concerning lies some friends had told another about he, the senior worker as TG had not given (and did not give) him the authority to do so.
Has the absolute power gone to his head? It's difficult to say as he's ruled with rod of iron since returning to take the position of head worker and has been intractable with everyone I've known to have attempted to discuss or resolve an issue.
I do know that he's attempted to wield his influence over a non-professing person regarding the paedophile under his authority repeatedly insisting she didn't report the abuse to the police. What does that tell you about Tommie Gamble, noels? A measure of corruption perhaps?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2011 17:29:17 GMT -5
I presume you post this with reference to the subject of the thread...TG? Never mind that noels ..... did you vote man, did you vote!!!!? Matt10
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Post by emerald on Jul 26, 2011 17:46:18 GMT -5
Interesting, you consider that broad generalisations work?.....maybe that will worthy of a Bert's posts of the month? anyway that aside I appreciate this much of your post you write "I'd say....." fair enough, appreciate your honesty in that. I wonder what God says....? Wonder if it is what you and others say? maybe? maybe not? Anyway I'd imagine TG would be chuckling away if he knew how he was being 'dissected' here on TMB?.... 'Sticks and stones will hurt my bones but words (on TMB posts) will never hurt me'? Is that a reality? noels Broad generalisations manifest themselves simply because they are just that. In other words, a trend develops which indicates a greater percentage follows the trend thereby allowing "broad generalisations". An astute person like yourself will figure that not all follow the trend; that is why it is a "broad" generalisation, not an absolute given. With that out of the way, I didn't say that ALL generalisations work. I said that I thought this particular generalisation works for me and I base that on my many years of observing human nature. You didn't answer my question though. What do you think was Tommie Gamble's motivating factor for insisting the abuse victim didn't report her abuser to the police? A simple Yes or No will do. Do you think it is corruption?
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Post by emerald on Jul 27, 2011 6:40:48 GMT -5
To be able to give a credible answer to your question I would need to be able to get more than your 'slant' on it. If I spoke to Tommie and others who are/were directly in the matter you refer to I would then answer your yes no question in a meaningful manner. If you wish to take this to me a 'cop out' from me, I have no problem with that. It could be as true and as straight forward as you state it? How can I fairly answer a yes/no question from you; an anonymous poster on a public forum that may cast an incorrect/false aspersion on a man?... Maybe you would do such....I don't. There's no slant, noels. The facts are just as stated: the victim was told repeatedly by Tommie Gamble not to report the abuser to the police. Tommie Gamble is not hard to locate should you wish to check the facts with him. I find it interesting that you choose to fudge around the issue - what is the root of the demands not to inform the police? Corruption? Stupidity? Anarchy? As for an anonymous person on a public forum, you are just that to me too only you claim to be a worker.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 8:27:39 GMT -5
There's no slant, noels. The facts are just as stated: the victim was told repeatedly by Tommie Gamble not to report the abuser to the police.
Emerald, I hope this is not true ?
It is one thing for a worker not to report an abuser to the police. It is a far more serious matter to dissuade a victim from reporting the matter to the police. In fact it may well constitute an attempt to pervert the course of justice, depending on the circumstances.
If you are correct, Tommie could well face ex-communication from society for a little while ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 16:20:40 GMT -5
If so.....let the law take its course. Ah but we are in the age of grace.
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Post by emerald on Jul 27, 2011 16:34:58 GMT -5
If so.....let the law take its course. And if the victim feels intimidated by Tommie Gamble, enough that she doesn't go to the police, where does that leave us? I know of many that were molested by this same man and few will tell the workers, none will go to the police. This thread was started questioning TG's leadership and for many years I though TG did a tough job in a tough manner but maybe it was necessary. Now when I learn of his handling of the self-confessed paedophile worker and his insisting a victim didn't go to the police, I believe it is time for him to step down. He has not grasped the magnitude of child abuse in spite of it being all over the papers in Ireland since c.1995 (the south at least but the North is not so insulated that the news cannot have travelled) owing to the horror of catalogues of abuse by Catholic priests. The Catholic church has been forced to address the issue and some progress is being made (in spite of the findings of the Cloyne report and Enda Kenny (taoiseach/prime minister) tearing stripes off the Pope) but who in the meetings will stand up to Tommie Gamble and make the move to report the paedophile?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2011 16:42:29 GMT -5
It's not a case of standing up to Tommie Gamble, it is a case of standing up to the system. Oor Tam for all his power and authority is just another victim of the Irvinistic system to which he is in subjection. The system comes before anything and everything, anyone and everyone, and as we have seen, even Jesus !
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Jul 28, 2011 0:44:30 GMT -5
And if the victim feels intimidated by Tommie Gamble, enough that she doesn't go to the police, where does that leave us? I know of many that were molested by this same man and few will tell the workers, none will go to the police. This thread was started questioning TG's leadership and for many years I though TG did a tough job in a tough manner but maybe it was necessary. Now when I learn of his handling of the self-confessed paedophile worker and his insisting a victim didn't go to the police, I believe it is time for him to step down. He has not grasped the magnitude of child abuse in spite of it being all over the papers in Ireland since c.1995 (the south at least but the North is not so insulated that the news cannot have travelled) owing to the horror of catalogues of abuse by Catholic priests. The Catholic church has been forced to address the issue and some progress is being made (in spite of the findings of the Cloyne report and Enda Kenny (taoiseach/prime minister) tearing stripes off the Pope) but who in the meetings will stand up to Tommie Gamble and make the move to report the paedophile? With regard to TG - I would guess he cares, but is confident that his handling of the case is complete and sufficient. I find that scary. However, I would feel that for ******'s victims it's hard to do anything alone - with or without TG in the situation.Until all the 2x2 ladies get together - to stand up and speak publicly with one voice - I don't believe the abused ones can expect to get the type of resolution they want/need. I wasn't one of ******'s victims but I know while I was a 2x2 I would never have had the courage to stand up by myself and say (for everyone to hear and gossip about) "----- abused me". I would not have been confident that people would come to stand beside me, as it were - to say "Yes, so were we". Or even "We support you". I would have dreaded being told "Yes we hear you. And you know what - the responsibility is yours to get over it because X says "he's sorry" and that's enough to mean you now need to forgive him." 2x2 Ladies - where is your support network ? Where do you get together to draw strength from each other ? Where is your common concern for each other and the need to (keep) clean the Workers list of such predators ? TG can ignore Mrs X, or Miss Y, but the collective power of 2x2 womanhood would truly be a force to be reckoned with c now climbing creakily down from her soap-box
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2011 10:25:08 GMT -5
There's no slant, noels. The facts are just as stated: the victim was told repeatedly by Tommie Gamble not to report the abuser to the police.Emerald, I hope this is not true ? It is one thing for a worker not to report an abuser to the police. It is a far more serious matter to dissuade a victim from reporting the matter to the police. In fact it may well constitute an attempt to pervert the course of justice, depending on the circumstances. If you are correct, Tommie could well face ex-communication from society for a little while ? May be, just may be TG was being guided by what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 6: 1-7.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2011 11:46:37 GMT -5
There's no slant, noels. The facts are just as stated: the victim was told repeatedly by Tommie Gamble not to report the abuser to the police.Emerald, I hope this is not true ? It is one thing for a worker not to report an abuser to the police. It is a far more serious matter to dissuade a victim from reporting the matter to the police. In fact it may well constitute an attempt to pervert the course of justice, depending on the circumstances. If you are correct, Tommie could well face ex-communication from society for a little while ? May be, just may be TG was being guided by what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 6: 1-7. Particiant, you are aware that Paul was referring to more minor matters" like kine straying onto a brother's land, not serious criminal matters ? In other words, matters which brother should be able to settle with brother through discussion and reasoning. TG like everyone else is subject to the laws of the land, especially so in criminal matters. Paul would have directed TG to go to the law in such matters, or to ensure his informants did so. If TG was guided by the passage you quote, he was either misguided through lack of understanding of that passafe, or he was looking for an excuse.
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Post by emerald on Aug 1, 2011 18:13:51 GMT -5
I heard today that the worker has been excommunicated. Anyone else hear this?
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Post by quizzer on Aug 2, 2011 15:04:11 GMT -5
Oh, I hope so! Is there EVER a bad time to slap down a CSA offender?
...and if that CSA offender is a worker, slap them twice...
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Post by justasiam on Sept 18, 2011 2:26:50 GMT -5
Probably it is too much to expect Tommie Gamble to acknowledge his failure to deal with many issues appropriately in the past and to step aside in favor of someone completely new that will not owe his appointment to such a failure? Many world-wide already feel this is urgently needed. The latest episode of summarily excommunicating a 93-old man forever, seemingly just to protect t.g's own back, was done in such a way that neither the victims nor perpetrator will ever have the opportunity for the kind of closure that Jesus taught and was possible even in the Old Testament. It is essential that those responsible for the failures of the past are no longer part of the organization's decision-making system. Apparently it is a known fact amongst some that Mr Gamble is dishonest and deceitful and is still covering up for some of his favorites in different ways. Many hold the view that he has repeatedly failed in his duty both legally and morally and therefore rather than being seen as having a part to play in Christ-like solutions, Mr Gamble is now seen as having been part of the problem and is continuing to bring trouble down upon "his" flock. His position would be completely unsustainable in any other organization. Do you also think it is time for him to go? Does he need a push?
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