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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2010 5:08:23 GMT -5
A rare opportunity to formally express one's views on Tommie Gamble's leadership.
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Post by fred on Jul 19, 2010 4:23:37 GMT -5
Some years ago Tommie was in Australia on convention rounds. I was lucky enough to hear him once - out of the blue came this diatribe about girl's wedding dresses ... " ..they must be dresses that you could wear to the meetings after the wedding..... and that is sound doctrine...."
Those were his words, and to this day I have heard nothing that would alter the opinion I formed that day.
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Claire
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Post by Claire on Jul 19, 2010 7:05:40 GMT -5
I dare someone to wear a burkha to one of the Irish conventions. Needn't even be a woman - who could tell anyway
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Post by Gene on Jul 20, 2010 20:23:29 GMT -5
One's significantly better half (OSBH) says: Disband all forms of human control and as the family of God on Earth are individually in communion and fellowship with the Father in Heaven, they become collectively one as led by the Holy Spirit without any need for human control. This was first said by EC and OSBH says it is as relevant today as it was then. Ed Cooney?
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Post by hope on Sept 2, 2010 5:10:24 GMT -5
I heard some of the professing friends this year describe the irish meetings as Tommie's Popery...
Does anyone have any idea why it is just him at the top and not several elder of equal rank.... ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2010 10:11:42 GMT -5
Probably Tom's Thumb!
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Post by blankets on Nov 2, 2010 13:11:49 GMT -5
Disturbing that 9 professing people, according to this poll, believe that TG should quit. I don't believe that any of us have the right to contest God's place for another. If God wills that somebody else take the responsibility, so be it. If not, far be it from we humans to advise it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2010 2:52:03 GMT -5
Disturbing that 9 professing people, according to this poll, believe that TG should quit. But perhaps not quite as disturbing as the fact that twice as many people want to beat him with a stick as think he shouldn't quit. Matt10
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Post by fred on Nov 7, 2010 5:53:17 GMT -5
Disturbing that 9 professing people, according to this poll, believe that TG should quit. I don't believe that any of us have the right to contest God's place for another. If God wills that somebody else take the responsibility, so be it. If not, far be it from we humans to advise it. Indeed that is so blankets...................... oh for the wisdom to discern God's will.
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Post by Gene on Nov 7, 2010 8:06:58 GMT -5
Is it possible that God is expressing his will through this TMB poll? Why not? TG, take note.
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Post by ts on Nov 7, 2010 11:41:56 GMT -5
Disturbing that 9 professing people, according to this poll, believe that TG should quit. I don't believe that any of us have the right to contest God's place for another. If God wills that somebody else take the responsibility, so be it. If not, far be it from we humans to advise it. So do you think it was God's will for IH to be overseer of Texas after molesting children for 30 years or so? Or did IH manipulate his way through the man made rules in a man made system and convince everyone that he had a "right spirit" according to those rules? Who dethroned IH? God or men? He was considered spiritually helpful just on week before he was discovered. He spoke from the platform at convention that year. Why is he suddenly considered unhelpful? Did his words change after he was discovered? Did his spirit change? If TG were caught in an affair, who would dethrone him? Or would they just let it go because of his power and place? The same people who would dethrone him if he were guilty of sexual misconduct are the same people who should get together and dethrone him for draconian and unchristlike behaviour that hurts others and destroys faith. Any excuses they make about "not lifting my hand against God's anointed..." is cowardice. It is this cowardice that hurts the weak ones among us.
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Post by blankets on Nov 7, 2010 12:01:00 GMT -5
Disturbing that 9 professing people, according to this poll, believe that TG should quit. I don't believe that any of us have the right to contest God's place for another. If God wills that somebody else take the responsibility, so be it. If not, far be it from we humans to advise it. So do you think it was God's will for IH to be overseer of Texas after molesting children for 30 years or so? Or did IH manipulate his way through the man made rules in a man made system and convince everyone that he had a "right spirit" according to those rules? Who dethroned IH? God or men? He was considered spiritually helpful just on week before he was discovered. He spoke from the platform at convention that year. Why is he suddenly considered unhelpful? Did his words change after he was discovered? Did his spirit change? If TG were caught in an affair, who would dethrone him? Or would they just let it go because of his power and place? The same people who would dethrone him if he were guilty of sexual misconduct are the same people who should get together and dethrone him for draconian and unchristlike behaviour that hurts others and destroys faith. Any excuses they make about "not lifting my hand against God's anointed..." is cowardice. It is this cowardice that hurts the weak ones among us. I don't know who IH is. I don't want to know who he is, either. Sounds like he's a man who was in the work who acted badly. A 'bad apple', as it were. They're in all walks of life. I'm not going to compare him with TG, just because they have both been in the work. Would you compare yourself with this man IH, because you used to be in the work? Don't think so. When and how did you get to know TG? I assume you know him, since you claim that his behaviour is "draconian and unchristlike". You claim to be a christian, TS. Where is the love? And - you know what? Jesus told us to love our brother and sisters in the faith. And our neighbours. And our enemies. I agree that it sounds like you've been treated wrongly, but life needs to go on. Forgive and forget. Turn the other cheek. Jesus was wrongly treated. I sympathise with you, but it's in your own interest to forgive. Jesus told us that if we did not forgive, our own sins wouldn't be forgiven, either. In the meantime, maybe stop making allusions that all workers and overseers are child molesters. It's not going to do any good to anybody. As I said, I agree that from what you said, you have been treated badly. But what does the Bible teach us to do about it? Shout it from the rooftops? No. Go to the person who the problem is with, and speak to them first, alone. You know the procedure given. It's in Matthew 18. blankets
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Post by ts on Nov 7, 2010 12:43:03 GMT -5
So do you think it was God's will for IH to be overseer of Texas after molesting children for 30 years or so? Or did IH manipulate his way through the man made rules in a man made system and convince everyone that he had a "right spirit" according to those rules? Who dethroned IH? God or men? He was considered spiritually helpful just on week before he was discovered. He spoke from the platform at convention that year. Why is he suddenly considered unhelpful? Did his words change after he was discovered? Did his spirit change? If TG were caught in an affair, who would dethrone him? Or would they just let it go because of his power and place? The same people who would dethrone him if he were guilty of sexual misconduct are the same people who should get together and dethrone him for draconian and unchristlike behaviour that hurts others and destroys faith. Any excuses they make about "not lifting my hand against God's anointed..." is cowardice. It is this cowardice that hurts the weak ones among us. I don't know who IH is. I don't want to know who he is, either. Sounds like he's a man who was in the work who acted badly. A 'bad apple', as it were. They're in all walks of life. I'm not going to compare him with TG, just because they have both been in the work. Would you compare yourself with this man IH, because you used to be in the work? Don't think so. When and how did you get to know TG? I assume you know him, since you claim that his behaviour is "draconian and unchristlike". You claim to be a christian, TS. Where is the love? And - you know what? Jesus told us to love our brother and sisters in the faith. And our neighbours. And our enemies. I agree that it sounds like you've been treated wrongly, but life needs to go on. Forgive and forget. Turn the other cheek. Jesus was wrongly treated. I sympathise with you, but it's in your own interest to forgive. Jesus told us that if we did not forgive, our own sins wouldn't be forgiven, either. In the meantime, maybe stop making allusions that all workers and overseers are child molesters. It's not going to do any good to anybody. As I said, I agree that from what you said, you have been treated badly. But what does the Bible teach us to do about it? Shout it from the rooftops? No. Go to the person who the problem is with, and speak to them first, alone. You know the procedure given. It's in Matthew 18. blankets Your reasoning is typical for meeting folk. I have gone the Matt. route and the overseers are not approachable and the DO cover for their own. I am not on equal footing because they are more spiritual and more powerful. "forgive and forget" That doesn't help our brothers. The lady that IH molested as a girl was told the same thing. She persisted and he finally got removed from the place that enabled him to molest others. Yes, we were hurt. That is fine. The workers tried to cover over their misdeeds but they cannot close doors that God has opened. He uses weak people like ourselves to confound the wise and prudent. The "bad apples" are causing a LOT of harm because some of those bad apples are overseers and workers. They are in a place of authority and, by their lives, they are teaching child molesting and other unhealthy sexual relations. Their sexual deviation is understandable given their unmarried, "sacrificial" lifestyle. They should be pitied but their sexual deviations should never be tolerated. I do not say all of the workers are deviant. But many many workers who are not deviant are covering for or turning a blind eye to the deviance. Then they accuse, like you, the victims of their abuse for "not forgiving" when they speak out against the abuses. Like Elijah said to Ahab, "I am not the one troubling Israel. YOU are." It is not me who is causing problems in the kingdom. It is the deviant workers. It is too easy to play the system and reach the top. Sexual predators are generally intelligent and know how to manipulate people. The meeting folks are so focused on outward appearance and so accustomed to the "different" worker lifestyle, they do not recognize or acknowledge when a worker is a threat. They do not have the liberty to say, "I do not feel comfortable with you. You may not come to my house or be around my children." If they said that to an overseer, they would get vilified and otherwise punished. Abuse is not tolerated. I can tolerate confession, repentance and forgiveness. But the scriptures must be followed. It goes both ways, also. If you have something against your brother, go to him. If your brother has something against you, go to him. I definitely have something against my brothers. I have gone to them. They refused to hear. I am here. They haven't come to me. They are the ones who are not acting according to scripture. But because they are in the work, you believe them before you will believe me. That isn't a just measure. You are judging me but you will not judge them equally.
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Post by ts on Nov 7, 2010 12:51:52 GMT -5
Oh, yes. I do not know TG. I think I have met him, though. Long ago. I do believe the report of so many. Oddly enough, the report is consistent with other situations that I have seen in the work. An overseer is largely untouchable. Unless he has done something illegal and been caught, he is unquestionable.
I had one overseer that every overseer knew was abusive. No one would confront him or stand up for the weak. He ruined a lot of lives with his abuses. A lot of unnecessary suffering...supposedly for the gospel's sake. His rule was supposed to be furthering the gospel. I have yet to see it. The focus is on the hierarchy and obedience to man's authority.
Of this same worker, an elderly and well respected sister worker told me that it seems like we are serving xxx instead of God. She was right. That is the expectation. Serving the overseer is equivalent to serving God. If you protest abuse, you are speaking against God's anointed. Never mind that the overseer intimidated his way to the top.
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Post by blankets on Nov 7, 2010 13:33:55 GMT -5
Your reasoning is typical for meeting folk. I have gone the Matt. route and the overseers are not approachable and the DO cover for their own. I am not on equal footing because they are more spiritual and more powerful. "forgive and forget" That doesn't help our brothers. The lady that IH molested as a girl was told the same thing. She persisted and he finally got removed from the place that enabled him to molest others. Yes, we were hurt. That is fine. The workers tried to cover over their misdeeds but they cannot close doors that God has opened. He uses weak people like ourselves to confound the wise and prudent. The "bad apples" are causing a LOT of harm because some of those bad apples are overseers and workers. They are in a place of authority and, by their lives, they are teaching child molesting and other unhealthy sexual relations. Their sexual deviation is understandable given their unmarried, "sacrificial" lifestyle. They should be pitied but their sexual deviations should never be tolerated. I do not say all of the workers are deviant. But many many workers who are not deviant are covering for or turning a blind eye to the deviance. Then they accuse, like you, the victims of their abuse for "not forgiving" when they speak out against the abuses. Like Elijah said to Ahab, "I am not the one troubling Israel. YOU are." It is not me who is causing problems in the kingdom. It is the deviant workers. It is too easy to play the system and reach the top. Sexual predators are generally intelligent and know how to manipulate people. The meeting folks are so focused on outward appearance and so accustomed to the "different" worker lifestyle, they do not recognize or acknowledge when a worker is a threat. They do not have the liberty to say, "I do not feel comfortable with you. You may not come to my house or be around my children." If they said that to an overseer, they would get vilified and otherwise punished. Abuse is not tolerated. I can tolerate confession, repentance and forgiveness. But the scriptures must be followed. It goes both ways, also. If you have something against your brother, go to him. If your brother has something against you, go to him. I definitely have something against my brothers. I have gone to them. They refused to hear. I am here. They haven't come to me. They are the ones who are not acting according to scripture. But because they are in the work, you believe them before you will believe me. That isn't a just measure. You are judging me but you will not judge them equally. I'm not judging you, or them. I am not trying to belittle the abuse that has happened, and may be still happening. What am I doing, then? Just trying to draw your attention to the fact that forgiveness is expedient for any child of God, be they in or out of the meetings. I'm not going to get into the matter of abuse. Not because I don't care about it, but because I know nothing I write on here will change anything. Praying about it will, though. I have faith to believe that. If those who you have issues with have not responded to your trying to solve the situation with them, that is a shame. The ball is in their court now. BUT - forgive them. Don't wait until they come to you asking forgiveness; they may never come. It won't mean that they have forgiven you, if you forgive them. But it will mean that you can then have forgiveness for your sins through Jesus. Continue to seek change in the abuse, if that's what God has put on your heart. But forgive them. I'm not going to waffle on about this...you know all the examples given in the Bible about forgiveness as well, or in fact probably better than I do. If you feel that I'm judging you, I'm sorry. All I can do is assure you that I'm not. I tell you this out of concern for your soul, no other reason. Not because I look down on you because you are not a worker. Not because I like to preach at people. Just because God doesn't wish that any should perish...and as someone serving Him, trying to make His will mine...nor do I. with love in Him, blankets
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Post by ts on Nov 7, 2010 14:00:11 GMT -5
I am not waffling either. Whether they come to me or not, I have forgiven them. However, I will not be silent when other are being abused by a minority who is intimidating a majority.
I also pray for them.
The way you are presenting "forgiveness" is very typical of the friends and workers. It is worker taught, not scriptural. What you are preaching is ENABLING abuse to continue.
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Post by blankets on Nov 7, 2010 15:56:53 GMT -5
I am not waffling either. Whether they come to me or not, I have forgiven them. However, I will not be silent when other are being abused by a minority who is intimidating a majority. I also pray for them. The way you are presenting "forgiveness" is very typical of the friends and workers. It is worker taught, not scriptural. What you are preaching is ENABLING abuse to continue. Oh, ts. I did not say that you were waffling. I said that I - me - blankets - would not continue MY waffling.
What is not scriptural about how I present forgiveness? Please reply to this as I thought that all of Jesus' teachings would have been considered as scriptural...evidently not. I am not preaching that you should enable abuse to continue. It appears from what you say about some people on here, that you have NOT forgiven those people. But I must have misinterpreted, please forgive me. Also, try to read what I said to you as if it had been written by somebody who isn't professing. You'll find that there is NOTHING in there that is not scriptural. I'd appreciate if you read what I said for what is IN it, and not just write it off because it was written by a professing person. blankets
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Post by ts on Nov 7, 2010 16:06:42 GMT -5
I am not waffling either. Whether they come to me or not, I have forgiven them. However, I will not be silent when other are being abused by a minority who is intimidating a majority. I also pray for them. The way you are presenting "forgiveness" is very typical of the friends and workers. It is worker taught, not scriptural. What you are preaching is ENABLING abuse to continue. Oh, ts. I did not say that you were waffling. I said that I - me - blankets - would not continue MY waffling.
What is not scriptural about how I present forgiveness? Please reply to this as I thought that all of Jesus' teachings would have been considered as scriptural...evidently not. I am not preaching that you should enable abuse to continue. It appears from what you say about some people on here, that you have NOT forgiven those people. But I must have misinterpreted, please forgive me. Also, try to read what I said to you as if it had been written by somebody who isn't professing. You'll find that there is NOTHING in there that is not scriptural. I'd appreciate if you read what I said for what is IN it, and not just write it off because it was written by a professing person. blankets Believe me, I have said the same thing to non professing people. I am not writing to professing or non professing people. I am writing to members of the body of Christ of which we both are. I do not think that it is a just measure to "forgive" the workers who are abusive and vilify the victims of the abuse. Forgiveness is not the operative word. There are issues that need to be sorted out and the workers have the power to do it...but they are not doing it. Meanwhile, people are getting hurt. The end result is destructive. The workers, like yourself, urge "forgiveness" in order to sweep things under the rug. Where there is destruction, you will not find Biblical and godly principles being carried out. The perpetrators as well as those who cover for them need to come clean. Otherwise more people are going to be hurt. I am gong to do my best to prevent that from happening. Prayer and action are both necessary. There are many more people who are much more capable and much stronger to do what we are doing. However, if they do not move, nothing will be done. God delights to use the weak things of this world to confound the wise and prudent. That is what we preach. I can honestly say that you can't get much weaker than we are and have been. Yet, we have been in a place to bring awareness to some very damaging workers. Hopefully we have prevented them from operating as freely as they have in the past.
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Post by blankets on Nov 7, 2010 16:49:32 GMT -5
Oh, ts. I did not say that you were waffling. I said that I - me - blankets - would not continue MY waffling.
What is not scriptural about how I present forgiveness? Please reply to this as I thought that all of Jesus' teachings would have been considered as scriptural...evidently not. I am not preaching that you should enable abuse to continue. It appears from what you say about some people on here, that you have NOT forgiven those people. But I must have misinterpreted, please forgive me. Also, try to read what I said to you as if it had been written by somebody who isn't professing. You'll find that there is NOTHING in there that is not scriptural. I'd appreciate if you read what I said for what is IN it, and not just write it off because it was written by a professing person. blankets Believe me, I have said the same thing to non professing people. I am not writing to professing or non professing people. I am writing to members of the body of Christ of which we both are. What is it that you have said to non professing people? That their advice to forgive is not scriptural? That their advice is "typical for meeting folk"? I do not think that it is a just measure to "forgive" the workers who are abusive and vilify the victims of the abuse. I think it is a just measure to forgive. Matter of fact, so did Jesus. Follow it up, yes. But forgive first. Forgiveness is not the operative word. There are issues that need to be sorted out and the workers have the power to do it...but they are not doing it. Meanwhile, people are getting hurt. The end result is destructive. The workers, like yourself, urge "forgiveness" in order to sweep things under the rug. Where there is destruction, you will not find Biblical and godly principles being carried out. Yes, there are issues to be sorted out. The workers can do it and I hope that they will. But all I was saying was that you need to forgive them. The perpetrators as well as those who cover for them need to come clean. Otherwise more people are going to be hurt. I am gong to do my best to prevent that from happening. Prayer and action are both necessary. So is forgiveness. Pray that God will help his children to forgive. I can only pray about the situation in my place. When I said that, I wasn't suggesting that action was unnecessary - I was making the point that there is nothing I can do but pray about it, being on the other side of the Atlantic.There are many more people who are much more capable and much stronger to do what we are doing. However, if they do not move, nothing will be done. God delights to use the weak things of this world to confound the wise and prudent. That is what we preach. I can honestly say that you can't get much weaker than we are and have been. Yet, we have been in a place to bring awareness to some very damaging workers. Hopefully we have prevented them from operating as freely as they have in the past. Hopefully so, and I'm glad that God has been able to use you. Still looking forward to hearing from you what is not scriptural about forgiveness.
Blankets
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Post by ts on Nov 7, 2010 17:08:02 GMT -5
I speak to meeting folk differently because I was called into meetings, know their doctrines well and there is definitely a certain paradigm they work from. Others may have the same paradigm but I wasn't called to preach in the Baptist church. I was as blunt with you as you were with me. I can back off of being blunt if you like.
There is nothing unscriptural about forgiveness, of course. Jesus did map out ways of dealing with issues. It is important to deal with them. It is better that a millstone were hanged about a persons neck than that he should offend one of these little ones.
If you want to work from the presupposition that I haven't forgiven, you are going to always be on the moral high ground.
I do not think the workers are any more or less human or any more or less important than anyone else. I am a workers myself. A sent man with a calling. They don't have any more or less authority than the next person with a calling. We are given certain ones in our lives over whom we have influence and authority. The workers are abusing that authority and hurting weak people.
The gospel is to take care of the weak. That is what I am doing. How you get "unforgiveness" out of "caring for the weak" I do not know. Perhaps it is the fact that the abuses that I have seen make me angry and I am vocal about it. If you call that unforgiveness, then, yes, I have unforgiveness. Whatever it is, I am unrepentant of it and will remain that way. I just know that your view of forgiveness breeds apathy. I also was once apathetic and let some situations go uncontested. I saw the damage that was done knowing I could have made a difference. I was afraid of losing my place by standing up for the weak. Now God has been merciful enough to show me that He loves me and needs me to stand up for the weak. The results of standing for the weak outweigh the persecution and accusations that come with the stand.
So heap your accusations on. I have heard it all before. "unforgiveness" "bitter" "wrong spirit"...can you think of any others that would fit? "self righteous"... Any others?
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Post by blankets on Nov 7, 2010 17:36:15 GMT -5
I speak to meeting folk differently because I was called into meetings, know their doctrines well and there is definitely a certain paradigm they work from. Others may have the same paradigm but I wasn't called to preach in the Baptist church. I was as blunt with you as you were with me. I can back off of being blunt if you like. There is nothing unscriptural about forgiveness, of course. Then why did you say this:
The way you are presenting "forgiveness" is very typical of the friends and workers. It is worker taught, not scriptural. [/i] Jesus did map out ways of dealing with issues. It is important to deal with them. It is better that a millstone were hanged about a persons neck than that he should offend one of these little ones. If you want to work from the presupposition that I haven't forgiven, you are going to always be on the moral high ground. I think you know you're being unreasonable. Here is what I said about you forgiving... "It appears from what you say about some people on here, that you have NOT forgiven those people. But I must have misinterpreted, please forgive me."
I do not think the workers are any more or less human or any more or less important than anyone else. I am a workers myself. A sent man with a calling. They don't have any more or less authority than the next person with a calling. We are given certain ones in our lives over whom we have influence and authority. The workers are abusing that authority and hurting weak people. The gospel is to take care of the weak. That is what I am doing. How you get "unforgiveness" out of "caring for the weak" I do not know. Oh, come on. Those words are completely your fabrication. Perhaps it is the fact that the abuses that I have seen make me angry and I am vocal about it. If you call that unforgiveness, then, yes, I have unforgiveness. As I already mentioned, I thought you hadn't forgiven because of your anger. But I said a few posts ago that I must have been wrong and misinterpreted, and I apologised. Oh well, for what it's worth, sorry again.Whatever it is, I am unrepentant of it and will remain that way. I just know that your view of forgiveness breeds apathy. My view of forgiveness? I wasn't aware that I'd given my view of forgiveness. Please post what I said about it, that was not quoting what Jesus said, in your reply.I also was once apathetic and let some situations go uncontested. Do you suggest that I hop on a plane to an unknown state to sort out this unknown man IH, and people like him? I would have thought praying for the issue, in my place, was all I could do.I saw the damage that was done knowing I could have made a difference. I was afraid of losing my place by standing up for the weak. Now God has been merciful enough to show me that He loves me and needs me to stand up for the weak. The results of standing for the weak outweigh the persecution and accusations that come with the stand. So heap your accusations on. I have heard it all before. "unforgiveness" "bitter" "wrong spirit"...can you think of any others that would fit? "self righteous"... Any others? I never called you bitter. I never said you had a wrong spirit. I never called you self righteous. I said that I MISTAKENLY thought you hadn't forgiven somebody, and apologised. [/quote]
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Post by ts on Nov 7, 2010 22:15:31 GMT -5
ok. we are on the same page, then. If you look at my effort you can see that I am indeed standing up for the weak. You are welcome. I know that that is your sincere desire also. Forgiveness is indeed what Jesus taught. I agree with it. It is the application of "forgiveness" that I disagree with. It is a typical knee jerk reaction from some of the friends and workers to assume that I am not forgiving because I don't let abuses just slide by and sweep it under the rug when they say, "Let God handle it."
Yes, pray. And act. Sometimes there are things to do.
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Post by emy on Nov 7, 2010 22:56:24 GMT -5
ok. we are on the same page, then. If you look at my effort you can see that I am indeed standing up for the weak. You are welcome. I know that that is your sincere desire also. Forgiveness is indeed what Jesus taught. I agree with it. It is the application of "forgiveness" that I disagree with. It is a typical knee jerk reaction from some of the friends and workers to assume that I am not forgiving because I don't let abuses just slide by and sweep it under the rug when they say, "Let God handle it." Yes, pray. And act. Sometimes there are things to do. Ever have the feeling of having some doors closed to you? Acts 16:6 Next Paul and Silas traveled through the area of Phrygia and Galatia, because the Holy Spirit had prevented them from preaching the word in the province of Asia at that time. 7 Then coming to the borders of Mysia, they headed north for the province of Bithynia, but again the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them to go there. 8 So instead, they went on through Mysia to the seaport of Troas.Now before you say that it's not the Spirit preventing you, be sure that others are not being used of that Spirit to change your focus. (My apologies for mixing this in with the T Gamble thread.)
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Post by ts on Nov 7, 2010 23:15:07 GMT -5
ok. we are on the same page, then. If you look at my effort you can see that I am indeed standing up for the weak. You are welcome. I know that that is your sincere desire also. Forgiveness is indeed what Jesus taught. I agree with it. It is the application of "forgiveness" that I disagree with. It is a typical knee jerk reaction from some of the friends and workers to assume that I am not forgiving because I don't let abuses just slide by and sweep it under the rug when they say, "Let God handle it." Yes, pray. And act. Sometimes there are things to do. Ever have the feeling of having some doors closed to you? Acts 16:6 Next Paul and Silas traveled through the area of Phrygia and Galatia, because the Holy Spirit had prevented them from preaching the word in the province of Asia at that time. 7 Then coming to the borders of Mysia, they headed north for the province of Bithynia, but again the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them to go there. 8 So instead, they went on through Mysia to the seaport of Troas.Now before you say that it's not the Spirit preventing you, be sure that others are not being used of that Spirit to change your focus. (My apologies for mixing this in with the T Gamble thread.) If I were prevented, then perhaps I would have to consider that. However, the workers are being prevented. If I look at their resources and power compared to mine, there is no question that God is doing something. They have been hiding the truth and it has been hurting people. If the workers excommunicate someone, reprimand them for having pants or beards or long hair, tvs...If they take the meeting away from someone, No one says that they are being "unforgiving". However, if a weak person brings up that a worker is womanizing and lying and hurting others or being an ungodly influence, they do NOTHING. In fact, the accuser gets accused of being UNFORGIVING!!! Now go figure. An overseer can be caught with a woman and get moved somewhere else, remaining in the work and another person can have a beard, a stable marriage, good children and be excommunicated. It makes no sense at all.
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Post by blankets on Nov 8, 2010 16:31:33 GMT -5
ok. we are on the same page, then. If you look at my effort you can see that I am indeed standing up for the weak. You are welcome. I know that that is your sincere desire also. Forgiveness is indeed what Jesus taught. I agree with it. It is the application of "forgiveness" that I disagree with. It is a typical knee jerk reaction from some of the friends and workers to assume that I am not forgiving because I don't let abuses just slide by and sweep it under the rug when they say, "Let God handle it." Yes, pray. And act. Sometimes there are things to do. Ok Thank you, I'm glad. I will. Oh to be more and more sensitive to the Spirit's promptings! blankets
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Post by ts on Dec 5, 2010 8:54:13 GMT -5
Disturbing that 9 professing people, according to this poll, believe that TG should quit. I don't believe that any of us have the right to contest God's place for another. If God wills that somebody else take the responsibility, so be it. If not, far be it from we humans to advise it. If God will that the friends get together and boot the guy out of there, so be it. Funny how God's will seems to be in favor of the workers even when the workers are booting innocent people out of meeting. Somehow, I just don't think that abusive workers are a part of what God wills for His people. Seems more to me like it is the will of the people to have abusive spiritual leaders.
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Post by JO on Dec 5, 2010 13:41:28 GMT -5
Somehow, I just don't think that abusive workers are a part of what God wills for His people. Seems more to me like it is the will of the people to have abusive spiritual leaders. This was the thought going through my mind as I read this thread. Thank you for expressing it so succinctly.
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Post by ex-teenager on May 9, 2011 12:25:51 GMT -5
I think from all accounts,TG has been widely mis-understood. I admire his strength to stand up for what he believes even if the liberals want to cut it down to nothing. He is by no means perfect, but has had a very tough year - one which a man half his age would struggle greatly with.
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