Long Lost Friends

[cowgirl]

Hi everyone

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to chime in here... I appreciate any comments, but especially those from a professing perspective!

Ever since I quit going to meeting 4 years ago, I've encountered a lot of misunderstanding, awkwardness, and loss in my relationships with those who still profess. A lot of it, I know, is simply due to that fact that I don't see a lot of the people I used to see because I'm not in meetings with them anymore - so naturally any bond we had is apt to fade a little - but I'm really saddened by the number of true friends that I seem to have lost. Obviously with me no longer professing there is a big common thread between us that no longer exists, but I don't think that should mean an end to our relationships. Any discussion I've attempted on this subject has been met with denial, defensiveness, or changing of the subject. Am I doing something wrong? If so, what can I do differently? I miss these people a lot, so hopefully there's something that can be done to salvage our friendship.

Thanks so much,
cg

[mrleo]

How much emotional energy do you have? You're going to have to be relentlessly patient, friendly and loving, probably be the initiator of most interaction...and you still may not succeed. Just know that if you don't succeed it's probably not because you did something wrong - you're just attempting something incredibly difficult.

[otto2]

I think you may find they feel unable to have a deep friendship with you (or they have been instructed not to), because as you're no longer professing you represent "the world", and they must "come apart and be separate" from the world.

Equally; they may feel at risk of excommunication if they associate too freely with you.

I think it depends on whether you are leaning towards returning to "the fold", in which case they may well have considerable enthusiasm for the project. If that's not the case I fear they will remain polite but distant.

[ooT]

Lack of times to interact is definitely a part of it. In addition, are your interests now a bit different from theirs?

Try thinking of the f&w as a family you were in because of marriage (Bride/Bridegroom). Now you have separated yourself from that particular family. If you separated yourself from a natural family, say by divorce, would you expect the relationships to remain unchanged?

[someguy]

Aug 7, 2008 10:17:55 GMT -5 cowgirl said:

Am I doing something wrong? If so, what can I do differently? I miss these people a lot, so hopefully there's something that can be done to salvage our friendship.

cowgirl

Don't bring stuff up as best as you can to avoid controversy. I still go to meetings and I get along fine with all my friends who no longer go. However, I have found that in order for me to maintain my friendship with others who still attend meetings, I don't talk about certain things. I guess I see problems but I can live with them and I still attend meetings. However, even for myself I can strain certain friendships because some people don't want to talk about things or discuss potential issues. They would rather keep their heads buried in the sand. As long as you are fine with that I am sure you can rekindle your friendships. Just my opinion.

[Where did the workers go]

I am bummed that they aren't writing on here anymore. They were so helpful in their comments.

Were they told not participate?

[Scott Ross]

Howdy,

I am bummed that they aren't writing on here anymore. They were so helpful in their comments.

Were they told not participate

No..... They are doing worker stuff such as attending conventions and taking care of other issues that are important to being a worker. They have NOT been told not to participate.

There is still an 'unidentified' worker who is posting on the main board, but has not chosen to reveal their worker status. It allows them to participate in discussions without the added pressure of pointed questions and demanding attitudes. Besides this person I know of, I think there are a couple of other workers also....

I was told in an email that it would be a while before we would see much input from them on this part of the board because of worker business... I would continue to post worker questions here though.

I think it is great that workers are participating here on the TMB, and hope that more of them have the courage to share their thoughts and beliefs with us here.

Scott

[Agonizing reappraisals]

Aug 7, 2008 10:17:55 GMT -5 cowgirl said:

Am I doing something wrong? If so, what can I do differently? I miss these people a lot, so hopefully there's something that can be done to salvage our friendship.

Don't beat yourself up! As you go through life, you'll be surprised (and maybe disappointed) to learn how many of our friendships are friendships of convenience. That is to say that people enjoy being pleasant with each other when they are put together on a regular basis, but it shouldn't necessarily be interpreted as friendship.

How many of your school chums do you still see on a regular basis? Yet, knowing them back them certainly enhanced the school experience. And after you retire from your job, how many from the coffee group will still make the time to get together?

Friendships of convenience come and go with the changing of our circumstances, but true friendships stand the test of time. Most folks will find that they are fortunate indeed if they have just a handful of true friends.

When you are in a social club, such as the Friends and Workers, there is the illusion that you have many friends. As long as you stay in the social club, you can maintain that illusion. But when you step outside, reality sets in. It may be a time of agonizing re-appraisals for you.

[cowgirl]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post; your insights are really helpful to me, even though the whole situation is a bit disheartening. As much as I may disagree with their point of view in many cases - such as why they shouldn't be friends with me - I can understand where they're coming from, which does help in the coping and moving-on aspect of things. I've tried the "relentlessly patient, friendly and loving, probably be the initiator of most interaction" thing as mrleo mentioned and I just don't have the energy for it, nor did I seem to make much headway. I think it's pretty clear to them that I'm not leaning towards a return to "the fold" so that definitely limits their enthusiasm for associating with me. The family analogy that ooT presented really made sense to me, although I can't help but wish that the family in question was the family of God and not the family of the Truth. In any case I've come to the conclusion that it's not something worth sweating over too much.

Thank you all for your helpful posts If any workers are out there and would care to reply I would be really interested for your perspectives!

[one more]

Aug 8, 2008 9:17:22 GMT -5 cowgirl said:

Thanks to everyone who responded to my post; your insights are really helpful to me, even though the whole situation is a bit disheartening. As much as I may disagree with their point of view in many cases - such as why they shouldn't be friends with me - I can understand where they're coming from, which does help in the coping and moving-on aspect of things. I've tried the "relentlessly patient, friendly and loving, probably be the initiator of most interaction" thing as mrleo mentioned and I just don't have the energy for it, nor did I seem to make much headway. I think it's pretty clear to them that I'm not leaning towards a return to "the fold" so that definitely limits their enthusiasm for associating with me. The family analogy that ooT presented really made sense to me, although I can't help but wish that the family in question was the family of God and not the family of the Truth. In any case I've come to the conclusion that it's not something worth sweating over too much.

Thank you all for your helpful posts If any workers are out there and would care to reply I would be really interested for your perspectives!

You would like to hear the workers' perspectives? Maybe ecause you don't feel free to talk with workers in your area? The workers' posting here is like Scott said, once identified as a 'worker' the attitude changes and the demands toward the responses increase- so it seems less likely that you will get openly declared 'workers' to answer much which is too bad.

You didn't say why you left the fellowship - that might make a difference in how others are feeling in continuing the friendship - but in general, I think you have the answer in what you posted .

Obviously with me no longer professing there is a big common thread between us that no longer exists, but I don't think that should mean an end to our relationships. Any discussion I've attempted on this subject has been met with denial, defensiveness, or changing of the subject.

The common thread is broken - I also liked what somone posted - it's like a divorce - you chose to leave - so there is something broken there. You mentioned trying to attempt a discussion on this subject - do you mean "Why we aren't friends any more?" - that would be a touchy subject - as it's like they are not what they should be, rather than, what can I do to keep our friendship alive, inspite of the choices I'm making that are taking me further away from our friendship. The basis of your friendship with most of the friends was your faith - common to what they believed - and now you have changed in some aspects, whether it's right or wrong, that's up to you to decide, but there is a change, and that's affecting the basis/foundation of the friendship/fellowship that you knew with them. . . so you have to just keep feeding what is left - common interests, care for them and their family, etc. . . .good luck . . . .

[cowgirl]

Thanks for your input, one more. Obviously the workers are very busy, especially at this time of year - and especially if they're on this board - so I understand completely if I don't hear from them. I have considered speaking to the workers in my area, but I'm not familiar with them (lots of changes since I quit) so haven't felt comfortable doing so.

To clarify on my attempted discussions: I've tried very hard to approach this subject in a positive manner and not point fingers, cast blame, or express any negative opinions I may have for fear it will cause offence. I left because the Truth did not feel like the right place for me - not because I had a grudge, was bitter, etc. - and I've been very open about that. Baically, I have turned myself inside-out trying to make things better, and it's been fruitless. I hate to take the attitude that "if this is how they're going to treat me then I'm better off without them" because I genuinely care about them and miss them, but I can't live my life chasing after something that isn't out there.

[Same Here]

Same Here-----

About a year after I left meetings, some of my professing kinfolks had come to visit and stay with other professing relatives because it was convention time. I went over one evening (I was previously invited) just to visit-----like family should do. Well, I wasn't very well received and some of my professing kinfolks said that they were uncomfortable around me because I no longer had anything in common with them anymore. We ALL use to be very close before when we ALL had been going to meeting. I could not believe it. And, its not like we had ever talked about anything spiritual anyhow----had NEVER happened.

I know for myself that after I left-----the so-called "friends" treated me as if I had turned red, grown horns and a pointy tail. In my area if one leaves meeting-----GET READY----- the so-called "friends" are horrible, they let you know straight up that you are scum and you are certainly going to HELL. I even believe that some of them will hand you the HANDBASKET to help you get there. I often wonder what kind of a God they serve.

[eyedeetentee]

Some people are simply shallow. If you are not in their clique, you are nobody. Find intelligent friends and you will not have that problem.

[one more]

Cowgirl,

I hate to take the attitude that "if this is how they're going to treat me then I'm better off without them" because I genuinely care about them and miss them, but I can't live my life chasing after something that isn't out there.

I hope my post didn't sound attacking of you - It wasn't meant to be - I was just wondering how the visits had gone - thanks for more details - sounds like you have the right attitude - DON'T take the attitude 'I'm better off without them" - just as others have said, move on, and let it go -

As said already, some people are shallow, and are threatened by the many who DO leave bitter - and thus they are afraid of how you might approach them . . .I hope you have found what is right for you - - - -and some new friends as well . . ..

[Rob O]

Aug 11, 2008 12:26:18 GMT -5 @Same Here said:

In my area if one leaves meeting-----GET READY----- the so-called "friends" are horrible, they let you know straight up that you are scum and you are certainly going to HELL. I even believe that some of them will hand you the HANDBASKET to help you get there. I often wonder what kind of a God they serve.

Any more posts like this will be deleted without warning. We requested that this area be kept civil and respectful and argument be taken to the main board. You can disagree all you like and as stridently as you like - on the main board.

I understand your pain because I went through the same thing. However, there is whole board to discuss such issues. Please respect this one.

[HUH]

Aug 11, 2008 23:33:13 GMT -5 Rob O said:

Aug 11, 2008 12:26:18 GMT -5 @Same Here said:

In my area if one leaves meeting-----GET READY----- the so-called "friends" are horrible, they let you know straight up that you are scum and you are certainly going to HELL. I even believe that some of them will hand you the HANDBASKET to help you get there. I often wonder what kind of a God they serve.

Any more posts like this will be deleted without warning. We requested that this area be kept civil and respectful and argument be taken to the main board. You can disagree all you like and as stridently as you like - on the main board.

I understand your pain because I went through the same thing. However, there is whole board to discuss such issues. Please respect this one.

Excuse the HELL outta me. Good Grief.
I posted this from the 50 most recent posts page. It showed that it was from the main board. Whatever-----

[cowgirl]

Aug 11, 2008 22:06:42 GMT -5 @one more said:

Cowgirl,
I hope my post didn't sound attacking of you - It wasn't meant to be - I was just wondering how the visits had gone - thanks for more details - sounds like you have the right attitude - DON'T take the attitude 'I'm better off without them" - just as others have said, move on, and let it go -

As said already, some people are shallow, and are threatened by the many who DO leave bitter - and thus they are afraid of how you might approach them . . .I hope you have found what is right for you - - - -and some new friends as well . . ..

Don't worry, one more, I didn't feel attacked at all. You made some excellent points and I really appreciate your input in the dicussion.

I understand where the stereotype of the bitter ex comes from, so I can see how they could be nervous about what I might say, the attitude I might have, etc. I don't fit that mold at all, but I can see how they still might be leary of me.

Bottom line, I guess, is that people can and will think what they want -- no matter what I do. I wholeheartedly agree with what others have said about some people being shallow, and I'm starting to see that this issue may be more about that than the professing/non-professing dynamic.

Since I quit I have found what's right for me, new friends included. I miss my old friends, and probably always will, but we never know what life will throw at us next, do we?

[mrleo]

If you need a boost, watch the movie Antonia and Jane. Very funny and touching movie about "old friends".

[friend1]

I guess I'm on the other end of the stick.

When I was a teenager, there were many of us kids of about the same age that professed, many of us stood up over a few weeks at the same Gospel meeting series.

We had a lot of fun together, mostly good, some not quite so good, but nothing troubling -- just completely normal young folks. We talked a lot about our futures, even discussed what it might be like to be in the work.

Then the magic age of 18 hit us and graduation from the several high schools in the county. Each of us then went our own way, a few kept professing but most left, some immediately and others later on. Now over 40 years have passed. I attended the funeral of one. Several I haven't seen since our teen years. Several I see occasionally at funerals, weddings, etc.

We are always cordial and friendly, even among those of us who are sharply polarized concerning our faith. But our lives are individual and personal. Even among the few who still remain faithful to the fellowship, I have little in common except for the old times and the events of the fellowship. And even that is somewhat remote because we all live in different areas where we aren't acquainted with mutual friends, our careers are diverse and our earthly interests have diverged. (It was interesting that I met one at a convention who was driving an almost identical car model as I have and it is not a common one!)

My understanding is that in the human form we are all so limited in time and energy. For myself, I feel like I have barely enough to spread around among my immediate family and closest friends. The toils of the day, both physical and mental extract just about all I've got. I wish I could gather in more friendships but perhaps that is what eternity is all about.

Perhaps this growing distant from those friends who left the fellowship is for a reason. Perhaps it is God's way of helping me to realize that unless I maintain a close relationship with Him, in that great judgment day he may say, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

[NYC]

IMO it has to do with "family values," personal friendships and local workers
Growing up in the 2x2, it seemed like there was usually 'outsiders' at any family/local gathering and I never learned that I was to "shun those who left."
Personal freindships weren't limited to the 2x2, we vacationed with 2x2 and 'worldly folks' alike. And now being an ex, I still vacaction with 2x2 and co-worldly folks.
None of this was hidden from the workers.

If you separated yourself from a natural family, say by divorce, would you expect the relationships to remain unchanged?

For the most part, yes. Still keep in contact (but I guess I was left out of the latest family photo )

Am I doing something wrong?

Maybe nothing. But remember, you are the one who has changed so don't expect them to 'follow you.'

If so, what can I do differently?

If they haven't tried to keep in contact with you, you are going to have to take the lead.
What did you do that wasn't strickly 2x2 (if anything). Hike, scrapbook, ride? Something where you aren't forced to talk and stare at each other. And remember, sometimes there are real reasons that the timing to get together is wrong, working long hours, going on vacation, etc.

))) Sorry, with your handle, I thought of the Pace commercial (((

[pianoman]

Cowgirl, I think that in every post here there is a bit of truth that applies to some of the people that act that way towards those of us that have left. Here is another prospective that you might consider. When B & R in the "truth" many people are shy and not real "people persons". A lot of it is from being shielded so much, I think. I truely believe that those that are like that can get comfortable with you when you are "one of them", but when you choose to leave, it makes it awkward for them in their shyness, and they truely have this terrible feeling that you are "losing out" and they probably would like to say something to help you "find your way back" but don't know how and don't want to risk pushing you away, so they say nothing in their awkardness and it seems they are shunning you. I think that this is a small group, but they really do exist and really have your best interest at heart, even though they may not see things as you do now. These people are to be pitied for their poor people skills, but not put down. I also believe that this is a small group. As I said, all of the rest are described here too.
I will tell you of a couple that have been going to meetings all their lives and still do, and they are a family that I consider my best friends. They live about 2000 miles away and we never go too long without talking, and I have always been welcome in their home no matter what state I was in. They have been supportive of me in all my choices, and that is what I consider true christians, and good friends. My circumstances for leaving meetings are a little different, but I don't hate all of the people and hold a grudge against the organization, but there sre some folks that I never care to see again both F & W, but we all have our stories. Just be yourself around them and the ones that are going to respond will and don't sweat the others. I will tell you that if you have one friend in particular, that you miss, contact them and you may be surprised at what happens. Just remember that a friend is a person that knows you really well and likes you anyway!! Good luck!

[otto2]

Good post pianoman, thank you

[ddowdy]

Sorry Cowgirl, but you are being SHUNNED. It happens more often than not to persons in your situation. Anyone familiar with this cult who is willing to be honest with you will tell you the same. I will say though that Otto and even to some extent pianoman are correct in that hopefully you can take each person on an individual basis and perhaps find some bonds of friendship that are strong enough to survive your exit from the fold. There are some very fine people who unfortunately are entangled within the cult and many of them are capable of forming and maintaining friendships outside of the group even when the word to exclude someone has come down from the workers.

As an aside...I bet if you put the word out that you might be interested in reenlisting they would be on you like cold on ice. Anyway, best of luck to you and keep in mind that maybe this is a good thing...the friends you do maintain a strong friendship with are most likely good and true friends indeed.

[maggsmagpie]

cowgirl I have posted some comments eleswhere but being cut off is the thing that I find hard to deal with but most are good people and had I stayed I would have been the same it si culture and beleif that you cant change. I dont need two hands to count those who cared even though after 45 years there is not a week goes by without thinking of those I cared so much for more than my own brothers. Not onr worker ever contacted me. maggsmagpie

[upatree]

While traveling during work a couple of years back I stopped at my cousins house who professes and also has a daughter that is in the work.

While I was eating lunch with her, a couple of male workers stopped by, as they where reaching to shake my hand during introductions she said my father was Stan and they pulled back their hands before touching me.

I felt bad at the time more for her then myself!

During family funerals I have had a least less dramatic reactions, and when asking where certain family members where a couple of Dads of my friends where judgemental toward thier own children that didnt profess.

[ronhall]

Just thinking -- I might do the same if someone made such a comment while my hand was in mid-air. I think my attention would be momentarily redirected to consider your relationship or association with Stan before completing the hand shake.

For me, most would probably consider it an inability to chew gum and walk at the same time. In person I tend to come across somewhat as a klutz, marginally rather than terminally. I actually can chew gum and walk at the same time, however I have been accused otherwise.

Don't know about the workers. You wouldn't think this might be some conditioned response they have been trained for, do you?

[Sharon]

I'd wonder if the workers slowness to shake hands might come from not really knowing how Stan's son might perceive the workers....it wouldn't be unthinkable if Stan's son hated workers, he might just take that handshake right on into a move that flattens a worker on their back! It all depends on Stan's reaction and action toward the workers in the past and the question in the workers' mind wondering just how "tight" Stan's son is with Stan! I think anyone would be cautious under those circumstances when they don't know anything about this "Stan's son".....I think your cousin would have been the questionable one, if she had any idea of the ill will between Stan and the workers, she'd been far better advised to at least kept Stan's name out of the introduction, JMO

[eyedeetentee]

To base an opinion of one on the actions or words of another is simply ignorant and preposterous. Even siamese twins are individuals.