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Post by pianoman on Jun 10, 2009 15:23:28 GMT -5
Bandtroll, you are a unique creature. You ask for facts, then distort them.
I would hate to live in your legal world where every statement is literal and fact, or fiction.
JHJMR says that the girls are not to see the workers, only the Doctor and the Attorneys, and you can turn that into "they can't see anyone else". You either have no common sense or intelligence, or have "legal brain damage", or perhaps your diversion tactics are just kicking in.
White Knight posted facts from the court records. He showed his, let's see yours.
You have not posted one fact on here that can be backed up on paper, or post what you have.
Could it be possible that you are running interference so you can find out what the "other side" has, so you can be prepared to beat feet out of town, or try to avoid legal recourse?
You will find out everything you need to know in discovery in the civil case.
Unfortunately for those reading, there are facts on paper that can not be put on here right now, but will be made available if and when possible.
If those of you reading can see how Bandtroll has twisted JHJMR's words as I stated in this post, you can figure out who has real facts and who is blowing smoke.
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 10, 2009 16:03:00 GMT -5
Bandtroll, you are a unique creature. You ask for facts, then distort them. Not distorting, just asking for clarification. And I would hate to live in yours, where 'close' seems to be close enough. Yes, based on "ONLY THE DOCTOR AND THE ATTORNEYS." She did not state that the restraining order was only against the ex-workers. Why was I supposed to assume anything other than what was said? Just real careful about what I'm willing to assume. (Back to the game of 'Guess Who.) I would not expect anyone planning on filing any kind of suit to be posting everything they know on the WWW. A simple "No comment on that" would do those filing suit better than all the assumptions (IMO) that have been posted here. No smoke here ...
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Post by pianoman on Jun 10, 2009 16:04:32 GMT -5
Bandtroll, to answer your question, I quote you:" (And in what way am I living wrong, by believing in 'innocent until proven guilty?)"
You have to be dumber than a stick to believe that someone can go to trial and be found innocent.
That doesn't happen, and will not happen as long as folks like you pound your "facts theory" drum so hard.
I have only heard of these verdicts. 1) guilty 2) not guilty 3) guilty with considerations (insanity, and the like)
Not guilty, once again, simply means that the prosecution could not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.
There is no Innocent verdict. Read a law book, ask a prosecutor, get a clue.
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Post by pianoman on Jun 10, 2009 16:12:49 GMT -5
Do I have compassion for the twins? Yes
Do I have compassion for the accused? Yes
Do I have compassion for those that are manipulating the facts, either directly or subversively? Hmmm. I feel sorry for them in the long run that they can be involved in this mess that way.
Bandtroll, as far as your " (Back to the game of 'Guess Who.)" and " A simple "No comment on that" would do those filing suit better than all the assumptions (IMO) that have been posted here." I really feel sorry for you.
You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you on the nose.
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 10, 2009 16:51:30 GMT -5
Bandtroll, to answer your question, I quote you:" (And in what way am I living wrong, by believing in 'innocent until proven guilty?)" You have to be dumber than a stick to believe that someone can go to trial and be found innocent. That doesn't happen, and will not happen as long as folks like you pound your "facts theory" drum so hard. I have only heard of these verdicts. 1) guilty 2) not guilty 3) guilty with considerations (insanity, and the like) Not guilty, once again, simply means that the prosecution could not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. There is no Innocent verdict. Read a law book, ask a prosecutor, get a clue. Re-read the post. It does not say anything about being "found innocent."
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Post by sharon on Jun 10, 2009 18:25:57 GMT -5
It's a very sad fact that in a legal suit of any kind, there are NO winners! Can not people get this into their heads? People think "Oh, I'm going to push legal issues here and I'm going to win"!
Think again, Folks!
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Post by pianoman on Jun 11, 2009 5:52:53 GMT -5
Sharon, there are clearly no winners here. The only thing that can happen is that civil action will prevent this from happening again.
IF, it is proven that there were others behind this, and that they manipulated the twins, they need to be made an example of.
IF, the twins acted entirely on their own, a lawsuit is not even a consideration.
Let us just say, there will likely be a civil suit. Draw your own conclusions.
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Post by pianoman on Jun 11, 2009 5:57:26 GMT -5
Bandtroll, nice try, but I do remember your previous posts talking about people that were accused and not charged, not being affected much by this.
I also recall your attitude, as you stated " I have been accused" and there is nothing you can do.
You have tried diversion again, and I am not going to go back through all of your posts to find where you have said that if they are not guilty, they are innocent.
You go back and prove you didn't say it. You have more time than I do, and you want to defend that statement. Prove it. Pull up your posts and YOU re read your own posts.
You need to start wearing slip on shoes so you won't get confused while tying your shoes.
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Post by sharon on Jun 11, 2009 7:34:53 GMT -5
Sharon, there are clearly no winners here. The only thing that can happen is that civil action will prevent this from happening again. IF, it is proven that there were others behind this, and that they manipulated the twins, they need to be made an example of. IF, the twins acted entirely on their own, a lawsuit is not even a consideration. Let us just say, there will likely be a civil suit. Draw your own conclusions. Pianoman, in no way did I mean that there shouldn't be further lawsuits.....what I'm trying to get most people out here reading and even those who think they have nothing to lose...please think again.....there are no clear winners in any lawsuit. True, some may come out ahead of someone else, but then that still does not indicate them as clear winners. I hope for something of a legal nature to progress beyond the twins' part for sure so that that which seems to be hidden will be made known on this side of eternity, at the least. Perhaps to remind people again what my very wise Gram told me...."It is better to reckon with our evil or sinful deeds this side of life then on the other side!" And I see the wisdom in what she said.....it is needful, it is helpful!
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 11, 2009 8:52:15 GMT -5
P.S. can someone put UK01 on one of those lists---I need some money-- ;D Just kidding--I don't want any part of that mess. But are you willing to share in the cost if you/they loose? (or even if they win?)
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 11, 2009 9:31:32 GMT -5
But are you willing to share in the cost if you/they loose? (or even if they win?) What do you mean (you/they)? I have nothing to do with this mess nor have I ever had anything to do with this mess---exception reading about it on this forum. Didn't mean to imply that you did. Just pointing out that those who are (likely to) bring a suit sound like they have already spent a bunch of money, and will be spending even more money if this goes to court. And even if they win, that still does not put the money in their hands. Someone has to foot that bill.
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Post by rjs on Jun 11, 2009 16:17:33 GMT -5
Like many, I have already paid a high price in the shunning and backbiting from this group when they expunged me from the group. The cost of hurt from this nasty group of people has no price limit. *** Yes the group can be nasty. Loving as long as you conform to rules of man. NASTY when you stand up to spiritual bullying.
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Post by jhjmr on Jun 11, 2009 16:24:14 GMT -5
Who is doing the sharing? And if they win, no money? Intimitation is a form of cowardness. Are you worried? Spent money for justice is a sweet reward. The loosing end was a false accusation and proving who made the false accusations and also who passed them around is a win no matter how you put it. So, justice will prevail and in a sooner or later time and all will realize, better watch what you say and when and about whom. A humbling experience for people with no regard or respect for others would be better than any money. So, that would be a great WIN!!
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Post by sharon on Jun 11, 2009 18:37:40 GMT -5
A young woman and her first husband lost their firstborn baby about 3 days old...the baby was fullterm, but extremely tiny at 3.1 lbs for a nine month pregnancy. Mother had continued to party and smoke all during her pregnancy.
The young couple sought to sue all the medical personnel and the medical facilities over the ordeal and come out on "top"....rich as croesus....however, because of the records and the evidence showing the mother and father were just as "negligent" in their "care" of the unborn fetus for the whole pregnancy and even before, they got very little money....a minimal amount so that the lawyers could write the whole case off so there would be no further lawsuits of any kind.
The young couple started another baby very shortly after that and spent many many dollars in going to name brand medical facilities about 2500 mi. away and even went about a month before it necessary for the repeat caesarean to be done and rented a hotel suite for their own use....they billed their employers' insurances for nearly half a million dollars...BUT they were very careful in their own "care" of the unborn fetus the second time around.
They had a very healthy 8 lb girl and that little girl grew up and turned 18 the day before she was to graduate at the midterm high school year.....on the day of graduation she and a few other young folks were out partying before graduation( close to Christmas also) and went drag racing down the highway close to their hometown.....one of the cars flipped and threw several of the young folks free and the auto landed on this particular 18 y/o girl and killed her instantly!
The other sad fact was just a few short months after this 2nd baby was born, mom and dad divorced! Mom remarried to an abusive husband the 2nd time around....then ended up raising the "bonus baby" at her mother and father's home. Nothing wrong with that.
But all the manipulations they went through, to end up losing that bonus baby the day after she turned 18 had to be one of the hardest lessons that girl's parents ever went through....she was an only child btw!
My heart went out to them in their plight and inspite of all the manipulations for their own profits they'd gone through...there's no way could I have wished such an ending to their life's dreams. But I have noticed that 9 times out of 10 when one doesn't humble themself and make for a personal accountability in their own wrongs, then horrible things happen. Also I've noticed that people who win large sums of money in a lawsuit never seem to really get much joy out of it either. So winning such a lawsuit shouldn't be about the money, but about the setting things to right again or at least bringing out the hidden evil. JMO
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Post by pianoman on Jun 12, 2009 0:02:59 GMT -5
Bandtroll, I will allow you to show your intelligence.
Post on here what "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" means. Is that absolute?
Shouldn't it say 100% guilty, no doubt, even an reasonable or unreasonable one?
That seems to be what you are implying.
If not, how can anything be fact, if there is any room for doubt?
I will eagerly wait to read your explanation.
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White Knight
Senior Member
THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
Posts: 510
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Post by White Knight on Jun 12, 2009 6:31:37 GMT -5
I hear name removed received a rather large sum left behind by her grandmother, guess she being the king or should that be the queen pin in this matter won't mind sharing some?
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Post by pianoman on Jun 12, 2009 6:46:53 GMT -5
White Knight, I am shocked.
Are you suggesting that there may be a money trail to follow, to see that someone may have had some ulterior motives here?
Are you suggesting that maybe the twins weren't alone and maybe were pawns in a big hoax?
Gadzooks, is that possible.
I am sure that Bandtroll will straighten this out for us......
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 12, 2009 6:53:29 GMT -5
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 12, 2009 6:58:37 GMT -5
If not, how can anything be fact, if there is any room for doubt? IF a civil case goes to court and those filing the civil suit loose or have the case thrown out, will they ever apologize? Will they go to the other side and say we want to put things behind us on 'your terms?' SAME QUESTIONS IF a civil case goes to court and those defending against the civil suit loose, will they ever apologize (Other than what would be ordered by the court)? Will they go to the other side and say we want to put things behind us on 'your terms?' Or is this a case where the verdict will only confirm what the winners think and the losers will still insist the facts are on their ( the losers ) side?
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 12, 2009 7:08:02 GMT -5
WARNING - OFF TOPIC POST I would hate to live in your legal world where every statement is literal and fact, or fiction. You have more time than I do. In my 'literal world' we both have 24 hours. (I'm not sure what math you can use to prove that my 24 hours is greater than your 24 yours.) RE:
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Post by rjs on Jun 12, 2009 7:55:11 GMT -5
I think Dietcokes anti-Christian comments should be moved to one of the other boards. Fair is fair!
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 12, 2009 8:48:54 GMT -5
Since bandtroll is negative, does that carry the weight of those who actually have a stake in this investigation? Who is someone so important that they can determine what they think should be told and how it effects those that are part of this mess? Sorry if facts are to much for anyone to handle! Not sure why this post ended up on the Advising Admin Team of Issues thread.
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Post by pianoman on Jun 12, 2009 14:39:34 GMT -5
Yeah, really after all this is no big deal.
No blood, no foul.
when the domino's start to fall, who will be the last one?
It is no secret that I have been around and been through the court system. When someone is doing dastardly deeds for others, they will fold like a house of cards when caught. There isn't enough money, that the friends are willing to shell out in that case, so those that are in the wrong, and know what they are doing better be stocking up.
The twins are really victims in this too. Victims of whom? Time will tell
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Post by sharon on Jun 16, 2009 19:55:07 GMT -5
Well, more truth leaks out.....I've said all along that it seemed to me the worst of the problems were caused by "the love of money...which we know is the root of all evil."!
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Post by emy on Jun 16, 2009 21:01:31 GMT -5
Sharon, can you explain this last post? You have heard something more?
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Post by pianoman on Jun 17, 2009 8:17:19 GMT -5
Some questions that may enlighten some people on money and what may really be going on here.
How do two "ex-workers" have the money to "rent" a double wide mobile home, pay all of the deposits for gas and electric and water and whatever else, have cars to drive, and not really miss a beat, financially.
After my divorce, I had to live with my daughter for a short time, and work to save enough money to get my own place. I did not have a car, due to finances until nearly a year and a half later. I had to ride the bus. I did not have to pay deposits because I had good credit from paying utilities, when I was married and paying my utilities.
I have said it once and will say it again, follow the money.
Anyone that thinks that there is no corruption in this fellowship, lives in a very small world, and is probably wearing blinders, that cover the entire eye and brain.
This does not mean that there are those that are sincere and good intentioned people, but where there is money, there is corruption. It is that simple.
When you read this start thinking of how you would start over, if you had no income, and suddenly were "cut off" from the source that was supporting you.
Maybe that source is not so cut off, or there are those that are taking things upon themselves.
Yep, all speculation, but I would love to hear some answers, especially from the ones on the "other side" of this case.
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Post by ScholarGal on Jun 17, 2009 14:00:31 GMT -5
Given the current economic situation in Michigan, rent might be less expensive than normal.
Some people that leave the work have friends or family that help them with immediate expenses to start a new life. (Sometimes these friends and family aren't even professing people.)
Whatever your opinion of the workers, most people who join the work do it because they feel God calling them to a ministry. I've never met any workers who went out because they thought it would be a cushy lifestyle. If someone has given months or years in service to a church, it would be a shame if no one helped them when they left the work.
Jesus taught that we should love and care for our neighbors. That includes ex-workers, resting workers, widows, orphans, struggling young families, people getting divorced... Even the guy who goes to jail for robbing a bank deserves compassion and care as he faces the consequences of his actions!
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Post by jphillips on Jun 18, 2009 8:41:26 GMT -5
I hear xxx received a rather large sum left behind by her grandmother, guess she being the king or should that be the queen pin in this matter won't mind sharing some? So she's in the 'courting mode,' now! Any address as she now has a dowry? Come to papa!
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