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Post by jhjmr on Nov 19, 2008 23:16:49 GMT -5
Anyone that influenced the allegations, will have to be addressed after the girls are able to answer questions. The treatments center thought they would have the girls competent in about the 3 months that they ask for the girl to adjourn the case for so, in 3 months, every will see what the Dr. has decided and if they can then go ahead with the trial or if more treatment will be necessary. The girls have different judges and lawyers and will appear at different times which is good. That way, it is hoped that more information can be forth coming.
If the court feels there was influencing, I am sure they will then decide what route to take to address that problem. Of course, the ex workers are to testify that the girls did lie according to court documents. So, maybe that will be a wake up call for the girls to start talking as they do not think that the ex workers that were so much with them and helping them and taking reports to the police for them would ever be against them. But the ex worker have to say they lie, because if they don't, they are then wide open for a slander suit. So, they have themselves also pinned against a wall. They have incriminated themselves in court documents. So, much discovery to be made.
Hopefully the domino's will fall, one by one clear to the top who was behind every call made. But, that is totally necessary. To many people were fooled to believe things that were wrong. It will just take time to get the digging done and then the puzzle will be solved.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Nov 20, 2008 7:03:08 GMT -5
Things still of concern: Will the head worker in Michigan acknowledge the wrongs done there? Will he rectify the wrong? Will he take courage and take measures against the bishops that kept the false rumours going and reinstate those that were striped of there place? As there were some that took the rap for doing what was right. Will he help with the huge debt left to the parents or even allow funds to be raised? These matters are only a few of many.
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Post by lin on Nov 20, 2008 8:38:14 GMT -5
Scott
I didn't mention the family being reunited (without supervision) because I do not have anything official at my disposal to use, nor have I seen anything in any official form. Therefore, much as in any issue surrounding this case, I did not feel I should post a statement.
I thought you were in direct contact with these overseers at all times,and that you had access to info we don't even know.
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Post by Scott Ross on Nov 20, 2008 8:49:02 GMT -5
lin, I thought you were in direct contact with these overseers at all times,and that you had access to info we don't even knowI am referring to court documents. I have heard the same information about this from about 5 people now. I am sure that you also have access to information which 'we don't even know'. Not real sure what you are referring to with that statement. In regard to being in 'direct contact'. The overseers that I have dealt with have all told me to give them a call/email if there is something I feel the need to share or discuss with them. I am pretty sure this is their response to anyone who treats them respectfully and doesn't abuse that invitation. Scott
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Post by lin on Nov 20, 2008 8:54:25 GMT -5
Scott Thanks for that clarification.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Nov 20, 2008 21:52:03 GMT -5
Anyone that influenced the allegations, will have to be addressed after the girls are able to answer questions. The treatments center thought they would have the girls competent in about the 3 months that they ask for the girl to adjourn the case for so, in 3 months, every will see what the Dr. has decided and if they can then go ahead with the trial or if more treatment will be necessary. The girls have different judges and lawyers and will appear at different times which is good. That way, it is hoped that more information can be forth coming. If the court feels there was influencing, I am sure they will then decide what route to take to address that problem. Of course, the ex workers are to testify that the girls did lie according to court documents. So, maybe that will be a wake up call for the girls to start talking as they do not think that the ex workers that were so much with them and helping them and taking reports to the police for them would ever be against them. But the ex worker have to say they lie, because if they don't, they are then wide open for a slander suit. So, they have themselves also pinned against a wall. They have incriminated themselves in court documents. So, much discovery to be made. Hopefully the domino's will fall, one by one clear to the top who was behind every call made. But, that is totally necessary. To many people were fooled to believe things that were wrong. It will just take time to get the digging done and then the puzzle will be solved. I think if I have heard correctly the domino's are going to fall faster.
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Post by jhjmr on Nov 22, 2008 10:25:12 GMT -5
It would be very interesting to see a ratio of Frandle followers versus Jesus followers. Does anyone have an idea what that ratio could be?
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Nov 28, 2008 21:57:31 GMT -5
To Whom It May Concern: Regarding, the, MI. case. As I, stated, on Nov 18 2008. The case regarding the FAMILY is over. It has however been brought to my attention about those who can not accept this fact, in Michigan. That persistently spread false rumours against the parents. IN short; to those bishops that insists on fanning the flames. THERE IS NO RESTRAINING ORDER BETWEEN THE PARENTS: there never was nor will there be. The restraining order for domestic violence in 2000 was cited against the Guardian Ad Litem. Nor did the wife at any time, have the husband removed from the home. Hope this will help clear up any confusion. If, I could, name, names, causing these disturbances. I would! I know who you all are, AS others here have already been made aware. Now may I add let the healing process begin for the family. THANK YOU WK.
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Post by jhjmr on Nov 30, 2008 8:35:01 GMT -5
The very fact that more lies are being told against the family, sheds a lot of light on the spirit of those who are telling the lies. How fast lies spread among the faith.
Only two people, that are from the faith were present at the final hearing other than family and one acquaintence of the family. So, it is not hard to know where the story began. The parents lawyer asked the judge to make a ruling on a motion about the Guardian Ad Litem, the lawyer that represented the children. There is a lot of issues about this lawyer, that are public records, regarding past behavior. A motion was filed in regards to this lawyer representing any child, because it would not appear that a person with these behavior problems would be one that you would want to represent any child. The domestic abuse that was mentioned in 2000, was stated that it became knowledge after the motion had been filed with the court. The judge ruled, using the name of the GAL and stating that he was a lawyer but he felt he was a good lawyer and denied the motion. From this came the lie that it was the father of the family that was accused of domestic abuse. Then the rumor became so good, someone added that the family had even split. This spread throughout Michigan like fire. How people want to make someone evil! What a shame on them.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Dec 2, 2008 22:35:39 GMT -5
Well done jhjmr.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on May 31, 2009 6:10:51 GMT -5
This was on page 37
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 1, 2009 21:05:37 GMT -5
Have we answered your questions yet or better still have you found your answers yet?
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Post by pianoman on Jun 2, 2009 0:29:36 GMT -5
Are there questions that haven't been answered yet, WK?
That would seem that some may have something to hide, such as identity, and involvement in the case?
Just my mindless "speculation"......................................................................MrPianoman to some
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 3, 2009 20:36:04 GMT -5
bandtroll: thank you for your hypothetical answers and admitting admonition to others,while burying other more prominent questions left unanswered. And if I may ask, as I seem to fail to understand your thought in the accusation of a mob. From the side I/others stand, we are the accused protecting our selves. We have been very forthcoming in the events leading up to, during and right onto this very hour. So now it seem to be an integrity issue. This is what Leeds us to believe you are from the inside on the other side. So maybe you can dispel the myth by answering a few simple questions. Were you at any of the hearings? Are you professing? How well do you know JF and have you ever advised him in any of this MI. situation? Have you ever advise anyone in this MI. situation? How well do you know the accusers? How well do know the family and or others involved in this case? These are the question you keep burying. Don't need to ask me any further question as I/we have already clarified them throughout all the threads. Thanks again for your participation throughout this situation. Sincerely:WK
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 3, 2009 20:54:57 GMT -5
bandtroll: IS really that hard to answer the questions? Not at all and it's nothing personal, but May 7, 2009, 8:40pm, bandtroll wrote:
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 3, 2009 21:01:50 GMT -5
That doesn't cut it bandtroll.
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Post by bandtroll on Jun 3, 2009 21:12:32 GMT -5
It's a message board, I choose not to reveal who I am.
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 3, 2009 21:55:46 GMT -5
It's a message board, I choose not to reveal who I am. Don't need to worry you already have, and we all know which side your on.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 3, 2009 22:09:35 GMT -5
Don't need to worry you already have, and we all know which side your on. I am not sure that Pat T even knows this board exists.... I find this pretty funny that you guys are so convinced you know who bandtroll is... Scott
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White Knight
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Post by White Knight on Jun 3, 2009 22:20:01 GMT -5
Don't need to worry you already have, and we all know which side your on. I am not sure that Pat T even knows this board exists.... I find this pretty funny that you guys are so convinced you know who bandtroll is... Scott then since you want to help bandtroll maybe you can answer these question on it's behalf : Were you at any of the hearings? Are you professing? How well do you know JF and have you ever advised him in any of this MI. situation? Have you ever advise anyone in this MI. situation? How well do you know the accusers? How well do know the family and or others involved in this case? These are the question you keep burying. Don't need to ask me any further question as I/we have already clarified them throughout all the threads. Thanks again for your participation throughout this situation. Sincerely:WK When one is so adamant to pull us apart or pick on us then one should be able to answer these questions, thank you very much.
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White Knight
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THE SHADOW KNOWS. In the shadow of the highest is a refuge from all fear.
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Post by White Knight on Jun 3, 2009 22:22:02 GMT -5
I'll leave this for you to ponder over. Good night
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 3, 2009 22:42:18 GMT -5
I'll let bandtroll answer questions for themselves. Here are my answers to the same questions: Were you at any of the hearings?Nope. I have talked with and communicated with several that were however. Are you professing?Nope. Was once upon a time though How well do you know JF and have you ever advised him in any of this MI. situation?I've talked with Jerome on the phone. I never advised him of anything concerning the Michigan situation. I was simply discussing the letter he sent that is posted on WINGS. I agreed to add what the authorities asked be added concerning the letter. Have you ever advise anyone in this MI. situation?Yes. I have advised several that they needed to report anything they may feel had a bearing on the case to the authorities and to let the authorities investigate and to wait for the courts to complete their process. How well do you know the accusers? I don't know the twins at all. How well do know the family and or others involved in this case?I have communicated with quite a few who are involved in the case. This includes family members, workers, authorities, accused, elders, regular professing folks and people from other countries that knew people in Michigan. Of course you are one of those I talked to on regular basis. Doubt if that helped with your questions to bandtroll, but those are how I would answer the questions! Scott
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Post by jhjmr on Jun 4, 2009 8:53:29 GMT -5
I have a question-------How with you living in Minnesota were you ever asked questions about the Michigan case from authorities? You don't know that family, you have talked to family members and some of the accused, but why, you? This is not a sexual abuse case that was covered up and needed to be revealed. You talked to Jerome about the letter. So, he wasn't capable of informing people of a problem? If you persuaded him to let people know, that was good but the details were very remote. I just don't get your involvement with a case in Michigan that really had nothing to do with anyone except the family and of course, Michigan F & W that got involved for moral support for a overseer that was blinded by authority and lack of knowledge, wisdow and spirit. Those people had no connection to the family life of anyone but made it their business to gossip and spread hate and lies. So, did they contact you to get your expertise on what? Love to have an answer. Wings had no connection with the family so why would authorities be checking with anyone about a family problem? Could it be anything to do with that long list of names that were made available by someone someplace. I don't have any authorities asking me questions about anyone I'm not involved with. Why would anyone ask you if they should report anything or why would you have to advise people to report things? Lots and lots of questions!!
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 4, 2009 10:07:52 GMT -5
I have a question-------Looks like more than one..... How with you living in Minnesota were you ever asked questions about the Michigan case from authorities?Through my involvement with WINGS I was contacted by various people. If you look at the very first post on this thread you will see: If you have information about the case, you can contact:
Michigan State Police Sandusky Satellite Post 90 W. Sanilac Sandusky, MI 48471 (810)648-2233
For those who are uncomfortable about reporting directly to the state police, they can funnel information through the WINGS site at:
wingsfortruth.info/
Or feel free to contact me at my email address:
bescottross@aol.comThat explains why/how I was contacted. You don't know that family, you have talked to family members and some of the accused, but why, you?See above. I was just a contact point. This is not a sexual abuse case that was covered up and needed to be revealed. You talked to Jerome about the letter. So, he wasn't capable of informing people of a problem?Actually, I think there was plenty of stuff that was covered up (or attempted) by many people. Jerome contacted me because the authorities asked that he do so to see if WINGS would be willing to point out an issue concerning the letter he sent out. wingsfortruth.info/jerome1.pdfPLEASE NOTE that the letter below contains an error. This letter suggested that children should be questioned thoroughly BEFORE contacting the police. The Michigan state police have subsequently advised Mr. Frandle that the CORRECT way to deal with suspected child abuse is to immediately report it to the nearest law enforcement agency (not to question the children thoroughly) so that trained investigators can question the child. Mr. Frandle asked WINGS to make this notation to his letter on April 23, 2008; therefore, a line has been drawn through the erroneous phrase.I never 'advised' Jerome on any matters concerning this case. He did ask that I call him if I had any concerns which he could answer, and gave me his cell phone number. If you persuaded him to let people know, that was good but the details were very remote. I just don't get your involvement with a case in Michigan that really had nothing to do with anyone except the family and of course, Michigan F & W that got involved for moral support for a overseer that was blinded by authority and lack of knowledge, wisdow and spirit. Again, any involvement by myself was from the position as a member of WINGS. Working to INform Guide and Support. It was simply doing the stated function of WINGS. Those people had no connection to the family life of anyone but made it their business to gossip and spread hate and lies. So, did they contact you to get your expertise on what?Not sure who you mean by 'those people'. I have communicated with professing folks who had concerns about the workers referred to in Jerome's letter. (not just from Michigan), members of the family involved in the case (as you would know), people who were accused by the twins, workers who were asking for information, professing folks from around the country (and other countries) who were wanting to offer support to the family. (I believe I sent you a couple of requests/offers of support to pass on) Were there some that simply wanted to gossip or pass on 'what they had heard'? Yes. But for the most part, those that contacted me were voicing concerns for the church, the kids, the family or just needed an opportunity to voice their frustrations (whether about workers, the family or the court system) Love to have an answer. Wings had no connection with the family so why would authorities be checking with anyone about a family problem? Well... through family members I DID have a connection with the family. I was glad for that connection, as it gave me a glimpse into how the family (the whole extended family) was suffering through this whole case. The authorities weren't checking with me about a family problem. Any contact was professional, and was in the form of asking how to get a hold of someone, or concerning how people with information could contact the authorities. Could it be anything to do with that long list of names that were made available by someone someplace. Not sure how many times I will have to mention this, but WINGS DID NOT GET THAT LONG LIST OF NAMES!!! And we have no desire to have that list. I don't have any authorities asking me questions about anyone I'm not involved with. Why would anyone ask you if they should report anything or why would you have to advise people to report things? As a public web site with contact info, WINGS regularly gets things reported to them. We are always willing to cooperate with any authorities in any investigation. Our intent is not to give out information about a specific individual in question, but rather point the authorities to other cases involving the individual in question. With the consent of the person (or people) that passed information to us, we put them in contact with the authorities. Any information we have would be considered hearsay, so we put the authorities in contact with those who may have information to share with them. As always, when we get information we ask that the information be reported to the proper authorities, or ask when the information was reported. Lots and lots of questions!! And you began by saying you had A question!!! Scott
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Post by jhjmr on Jun 4, 2009 11:10:30 GMT -5
Wings is posted on the web. The people that it involved is people that go to meeting or did go to meeting. It is not a known web for outsiders to find and use for help. So, since one ex worker was so interested in Wings, we know who would have told the authorities to contact you. But, Wings would NOT having anything to do with children being removed from the house for supposedly abuse. They are for sexual abuse. Now, that is right back to who told who and why would authorities contact you. Since Jerome was supposedly unable to write a letter to let people know that there was a problem, many moons before the Mi. case ever came up on one person, and the second person was named in the famous list, I would think he needed a lot of help trying to pretend this was a problem he just gained knowledge of. Since Wings had a issue with the Minn. case and was involved in it with Lyle, I'll bet we know why Jerome wanted to appear that he needed help or if you had questions, just call. Better not get any feathers ruffled up on his issues too. And how sweet that people wanted to voice concerns to you instead of the family. Seems Minn is a long way from Mi. and since that is where the problem was, they surely did go around a long way. And since you don't know the family, or was involved in the case with the family, it is to bad you couldn't pass on those concerns to the family. And since the authorities knew Jerome and how to contact him, why could they not just go to him and ask questions? Wouldn't you go to people who are from Mi. and knew certain people to get information? And, you could point the authorities to other cases of people that go to meeting. But, how did they know these people went to meeting? And if they weren't charged, but had incidents, how would Wings have those names and what the incident was and be on contact with people that named those names to authorities. Suppose the names were given with the knowledge that Wings has those names and knows about those people. To bad the authorities didn't ask when those names were turned in if they even had ever met those people. Two people out of the four could have held up their hands and it wasn't the twins. There are a lot of people that go to meeting, that I have no knowledge of names, addresses, their activities or anything. Most people that are even old and have professed for years never heard of any incidents with workers and etc. We know that things were covered up and upreported, but to keep track of all of these people, there is a list some place. Who has the list? Who reads the list? Who made the list? And most usually someone just can't keep such good stuff quiet. To many names made known without reading the report that was turned in. So, I'm asking A BIG QUESTION!!!
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Post by jhjmr on Jun 4, 2009 11:18:49 GMT -5
One other note: By the time Wings posted anything about the case or was supposedly involved in helping whoever, the first hearing was over and any accusations made were dismissed and proven lies. The accusations then took a turn and involved different garbage that was just papers filling a worthless file. It was a while before the sexual abuse came into play. Now maybe the ex workers would try to get the authorities to contact you for a specific issue, but there was no reason before that except, that family went to meeting and that is what Wings is involved in, people that are in or out of the meetings! But, were involved in the meeting sometime in their life.
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Post by Scott Ross on Jun 4, 2009 13:08:34 GMT -5
Hi again. I think I answered most of your concerns in my above post. I am a bit curious about this: One other note: By the time Wings posted anything about the case or was supposedly involved in helping whoever, the first hearing was over and any accusations made were dismissed and proven lies. Although we knew what was going on, nothing was posted and our 'involvment' began with the start of this thread. This is what I posted in part: Two Russian females allege abuse by SUSAN YOUNGER staff reporter
BROWN CITY—Two Russian born females, both 19, are alleging they are victims of criminal sexual abuse involving their adoptive parents.That posting included the TV news story which is from Monday March 31st 2008. My post was on also on March 31st. I am not real sure how you feel that the accusations were dismissed and proven as lies. I'm a bit confused on that issue.....: abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=news/local&id=6052914Could you be specific about the dismissed accusations? I believe that the parents were charged and that they pled no contest to charges, but I am not sure I ever heard that any charges were actually 'dismissed'. My understanding was that the parents complied with all court ordered instructions, and that they were able to get the children back. Perhaps I have those facts wrong. For wanting the whole issue to go away, I am surprised that it is kept alive by so many. In your previous post you mentioned: And how sweet that people wanted to voice concerns to you instead of the family. Seems Minn is a long way from Mi. and since that is where the problem was, they surely did go around a long way. And since you don't know the family, or was involved in the case with the family, it is to bad you couldn't pass on those concerns to the family Actually I asked a family member if they would be willing to give me the email address of the parents so I could pass those concerns on to them, but that was declined. I did forward a few through another family member. Not sure how you feel people from out of state would be able to show their support if the means to do so were not available??? Scott
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Post by jhjmr on Jun 4, 2009 14:04:16 GMT -5
When the parents first went in on was on charges that the twins made. Thy were the first to be answered. They all appeared in court, plus the people that always was there for a witch hunt, and the first twin was questioned. It was then determined that there were many lies told and all those charges which were pages were all dropped and found untrue. When it came to the four minor children the parents were advised by one attorney to plead uncontested so that they could get the children back sooner. That is very common. But of course the other attorney said that was a mistake, because there was never any proof of any abuse, no marks, no records, included dr. dentist and everyone that was in contact with the children. Teachers also. The mother said she spanked them with a belt and did put one in a room, like a closet with door open, for lying to her. That went against them. Because the court considers that abuse. So, how many of us abused our children? Jerome told me he got whipped with the belt all the time and should have had more. Now this is the man that is so involved in the abuse of the children. So, yes, the parents loved the children and did anything in their power to have them returned which the court did with high regards for how much the parents loved the children and how hard they tried to do anything to have their children returned. Be terrible if anyone sitting in that court repeated that, wouldn't it.
The family is not stupid. Why would they give their email to anyone that put out information about them or their family. That seemed very judgmental and hurtful. Many comments are put on the board and anyone that wants to show their support can do so by putting them on the board. Even the article about the family was FINALLY removed from Wings but nothing was put on it to let anyone the outcome. Rebuttals should be put on as much as accusations. If an article is written about the outcome when everything is settled, are you going to put that on Wings?
The reason this just keeps going on is because facts are strewn to a degree of disgust. People are involved for no good reason except self gratification. The lives affected will always be hurt because of the evil intentions of many. And better yet, a religion that is suppose to be a big happy family full of lies, hatred, gossip and bewilderment. That is who posts. Shock may be a better word!
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