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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 16:53:09 GMT -5
You write it and I'll "try it." (whatever that means!) It needs to be written by an innie for it to have credibility with the F&Ws... Send me a copy when you're done. If its shocking yet TRUE--I can deal with it. Try the pamphlet Cherie. You might get the shock of your life. You might be the one who needs the nurse. Why does it have to be an innie? You're the one with the "facts"...try it.....the letters that went out before perhaps didn't have the "facts" in them very well if at all!
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Post by CherieKropp on Feb 20, 2009 16:53:37 GMT -5
Sharon wrote:
I couldnt disagree more, but it seems we must agree to disagree on this issue. One of my highest priorities/values is TRUTH - apparently it is not yours. IMO, you're just too blind to see it. It IS happening right now--GOD's TIME IS RIGHT NOW. Reminds me of where Jesus asked: "but can ye not discern the signs of the times?" Judgment IS being rendered on the lie that was perpetuated by the system to strong-hold its members; i.e. the only way lie. The system is having to pay for its "sins." It's losing credibility, losing members and members are losing faith in the system. It's ALWAYS time to realign ones life and beliefs with TRUTH. Jesus said he was the way, the TRUTH and the Life." Realigning with TRUTH is always the very BEST way to go IMO.
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Post by Happy Feet on Feb 20, 2009 16:54:57 GMT -5
Sharon, I feel you have falsely accused Cherie of trying to take people out of meetings. She is offering facts - would you prefer her to keep quiet? I do not see anything in her post to suggest that she is trying to make exes. People are entitled to facts. Maybe it is the workers who are to blame for people leaving when they hear the information not Cherie.
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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 16:59:56 GMT -5
I guess Willis Propp excommunications could be placed in the same category as William Irvine with him excommunicating people. Modern day William Irvine. What some workers fail to understand is that God has never given them the right to hire and fire on his behalf. They are given the power (by man) to hire and fire on behalf of their organization, but God knows those who are his and their names are written in heaven. When Jesus opens the door no man can shut it. And when Jesus closes the door no man can open it. No man, not even a very responsible man with the rank of overseer. What about those who were sent home just recently because of accusations of CSA and in about 30 plus cases, was false accusations? And some were not ever proven elsewise either! Narcisstic persons getting the overseership can sure lead to chaos in a hurry...it may have been wise to send those "accused" home for a visit until an investigation and court dealings were finished but in the meantime, keep helping them financially....it cannot be easy to suddenly be sent home from the work and have NO moneys! Then if allegations are proven false, let the poor folks make a choice whether they want to continue on or not. Most would not likely go back into the work, because they'd feel their effectiveness was gone!
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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 17:02:58 GMT -5
Sharon wrote: I couldnt disagree more, but it seems we must agree to disagree on this issue. One of my highest priorities/values is TRUTH - apparently it is not yours. IMO, you're just too blind to see it. It IS happening right now--GOD's TIME IS RIGHT NOW. Reminds me of where Jesus asked: "but can ye not discern the signs of the times?" Judgment IS being rendered on the lie that was perpetuated by the system to strong-hold its members; i.e. the only way lie. The system is having to pay for its "sins." It's losing credibility, losing members and members are losing faith in the system. It's ALWAYS time to realign ones life and beliefs with TRUTH. Jesus said he was the way, the TRUTH and the Life." Realigning with TRUTH is always the very BEST way to go IMO. Don't take your frustrations at the slowing down of exits on me, Cherie......I don't know where this thing is going to go, but preserve me from being a destructive force!
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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 17:07:58 GMT -5
Sharon, I feel you have falsely accused Cherie of trying to take people out of meetings. She is offering facts - would you prefer her to keep quiet? I do not see anything in her post to suggest that she is trying to make exes. People are entitled to facts. Maybe it is the workers who are to blame for people leaving when they hear the information not Cherie. believer, it is ones like you that make me feel like I do...you seem to be holding an anger against the workers of today....it was not their fault that the lie or dishonesty was perpetuated any more then it is mine. As I said, when it opens up I tell what I know that is truth about the whole affair, but I will not beat people over the head with the facts that they do not want to hear...CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT? Believer, I had the "facts" about some of the issues within this program of "truth" forced down mine throat about 1 and half years ago....and those "facts" I HAD NO BUSINESS WITH! That much I know! I was in No position or business to help where those who needed help were....I would have done more harm then good....but that didn't keep the "fact pusher" from pushing that off onto me...unwilling recipient I was.....NOW if I had been a very weak person...those "facts, that were pushed" on me could have been very detrimental to me in many many ways.....but again, God saw me through that veil of the shadow of death and if you do not believe there is more then one veil of the shadow of death, then you're one lucky human! JMO
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Post by JO on Feb 20, 2009 17:12:56 GMT -5
I don't see a frustration in the slowing down of exits.
Exits are not even in Cherie's mission statement.
For me, I would like the fellowship and ministry to enjoy a spiritual prosperity that it hasn't known for a long time.
That won't happen until there is openness, honesty, and repentance around the history of the movement.
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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 17:17:25 GMT -5
I don't see a frustration in the slowing down of exits. Exits are not even in Cherie's mission statement. For me, I would like the fellowship and ministry to enjoy a spiritual prosperity that it hasn't known for a long time. That won't happen until there is openness, honesty, and repentance around the history of the movement. Are you joining in with the repentance around the history of the movement? To one and all? Think about it, please! Why does anyone have to repent for something that was perpetuated 100 plus yrs. ago by a troubled personality? Why? Can we not all, react to it as we see fit...and give the next person that right. The historical facts are available through several search engines and even by accidental discovery. The only thing that should not be done now, is those who are aware of the perpetuated problem to continue in the telling of it. And remaining open to any opportunity to correct when it may be spoken about in front of oneself. That's JMO
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Post by Happy Feet on Feb 20, 2009 17:43:39 GMT -5
Sharon, I feel you have falsely accused Cherie of trying to take people out of meetings. She is offering facts - would you prefer her to keep quiet? I do not see anything in her post to suggest that she is trying to make exes. People are entitled to facts. Maybe it is the workers who are to blame for people leaving when they hear the information not Cherie. believer, it is ones like you that make me feel like I do...you seem to be holding an anger against the workers of today....it was not their fault that the lie or dishonesty was perpetuated any more then it is mine. As I said, when it opens up I tell what I know that is truth about the whole affair, but I will not beat people over the head with the facts that they do not want to hear...CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT? Believer, I had the "facts" about some of the issues within this program of "truth" forced down mine throat about 1 and half years ago....and those "facts" I HAD NO BUSINESS WITH! That much I know! I was in No position or business to help where those who needed help were....I would have done more harm then good....but that didn't keep the "fact pusher" from pushing that off onto me...unwilling recipient I was.....NOW if I had been a very weak person...those "facts, that were pushed" on me could have been very detrimental to me in many many ways.....but again, God saw me through that veil of the shadow of death and if you do not believe there is more then one veil of the shadow of death, then you're one lucky human! JMO Seems like you are now falsely accusing me of being angry - so please stop yelling. Who is asking you to beat people over the head with the facts? Seems like you are the one who is angry and are projecting that onto us. You are obviously angry at the way the facts were pushed onto you. Cherie or I are not pushing anything onto any one. People have a choice if they want to read her website or this message board. No one is pushing it onto them. Deal with your own anger. You are making unfound accusations when you are the one who obviously needs to deal with the issues. Don't project your anger and insecurity onto us please. The present day workers have a responsibilty to put the past right, if you put it that way, but instead many are still claiming they were never started by any man, although they know to the contrary. I have first hand experience of this. I am concerned about this.
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Post by JO on Feb 20, 2009 17:59:17 GMT -5
I don't see a frustration in the slowing down of exits. Exits are not even in Cherie's mission statement. For me, I would like the fellowship and ministry to enjoy a spiritual prosperity that it hasn't known for a long time. That won't happen until there is openness, honesty, and repentance around the history of the movement. Are you joining in with the repentance around the history of the movement? To one and all? Think about it, please! Why does anyone have to repent for something that was perpetuated 100 plus yrs. ago by a troubled personality? Why? Can we not all, react to it as we see fit...and give the next person that right. The historical facts are available through several search engines and even by accidental discovery. The only thing that should not be done now, is those who are aware of the perpetuated problem to continue in the telling of it. And remaining open to any opportunity to correct when it may be spoken about in front of oneself. That's JMO As I said before, I doubt the lie has been around 100 plus years. I think it evolved over time. I see it as an organizational issue rather than an individual issue. However organizations are made up of individuals. Organizational repentance will happen one person at a time. We have to accept that its spiritual wickedness to have people putting their faith in a lie. Then we have to repent of any part we have played in maintaining the lie. Otherwise we are fooling ourselves to expect God's blessing on our collective church.
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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 19:10:10 GMT -5
"Cherie or I are not pushing anything onto any one."
believer, speak for yourself, please!
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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 19:12:36 GMT -5
[quote author=believer boar
The present day workers have a responsibilty to put the past right, if you put it that way, but instead many are still claiming they were never started by any man, although they know to the contrary. I have first hand experience of this. I am concerned about this. [/quote]
If you have first hand experience with this, then that is where your responsibility begins....not mine, not anyone else's.....That's what I'm trying to say...when the "window of opportunity" opens, then that is when our responsibility begins.
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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 19:13:58 GMT -5
believer, it is ones like you that make me feel like I do...you seem to be holding an anger against the workers of today....it was not their fault that the lie or dishonesty was perpetuated any more then it is mine. As I said, when it opens up I tell what I know that is truth about the whole affair, but I will not beat people over the head with the facts that they do not want to hear...CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT? Believer, I had the "facts" about some of the issues within this program of "truth" forced down mine throat about 1 and half years ago....and those "facts" I HAD NO BUSINESS WITH! That much I know! I was in No position or business to help where those who needed help were....I would have done more harm then good....but that didn't keep the "fact pusher" from pushing that off onto me...unwilling recipient I was.....NOW if I had been a very weak person...those "facts, that were pushed" on me could have been very detrimental to me in many many ways.....but again, God saw me through that veil of the shadow of death and if you do not believe there is more then one veil of the shadow of death, then you're one lucky human! JMO Seems like you are now falsely accusing me of being angry - so please stop yelling. Who is asking you to beat people over the head with the facts? Seems like you are the one who is angry and are projecting that onto us. You are obviously angry at the way the facts were pushed onto you. Cherie or I are not pushing anything onto any one. People have a choice if they want to read her website or this message board. No one is pushing it onto them. Deal with your own anger. You are making unfound accusations when you are the one who obviously needs to deal with the issues. Don't project your anger and insecurity onto us please. The present day workers have a responsibilty to put the past right, if you put it that way, but instead many are still claiming they were never started by any man, although they know to the contrary. I have first hand experience of this. I am concerned about this. Cherie asked that an "innie" produce the pamphlet! Now if that's not asking for someone to push it, I don't know what you're thinking! Pardon me!
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Post by Happy Feet on Feb 20, 2009 19:47:27 GMT -5
"Cherie or I are not pushing anything onto any one." believer, speak for yourself, please! .....and you speak for yourself and don't make insinuations based on your own feelings about me please. Talk about speaking for someone else, the conversation about the pamphlet was between lin and Cherie - not you, but of course anyone is free to join in I am sure. This also means that this board is public and i will respond to what ever post I choose without being told what I can or cannot do by you. 'Asking' is not 'pushing' someone to do something. Asking gives the person a choice, pushing does not.
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Post by CherieKropp on Feb 20, 2009 19:47:45 GMT -5
Get real Sharon! I didn't not ask for a pamphlet to be written. I SUGGESTED it in lieu of the platform idea whivch you objected to violently. I well know there is about one chance in 100 that it could ever be written. I have no power over any of that. Its entirely up to your workers and you know it.
I really dont care what happens to your church...I do care about those who are unhappy in your church; especially those who stay there due to a lie they were told and believe and would prefer to not be in the confines of your church.
I'm not pushing/forcing anything on anyone. I have a website that people can find on their own and read, as you said. No one has to come on this board or stay on it and read whats on it, or what I or believer or anyone else writes. It's all read voluntarily. Nothing is pushed on people--who dont allow it themselves; and who could not stop it at any time by not reading here.
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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 20:05:20 GMT -5
quote"How about a pamphlet explaining the origins given to all F&W? Would you prefer that?
Try the pamphlet Cherie. You might get the shock of your life. You might be the one who needs the nurse. Report Post - Link to Post - Back to Top Logged CherieKropp Royal Member
member is offline
Ask: Who was Wm Irvine?
Joined: Jul 2003 Gender: Female Posts: 2,868 Location: USA Re: FOUNDER part II « Reply #580 Today at 11:09am »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You write it and I'll "try it." (whatever that means!) It needs to be written by an innie for it to have credibility with the F&Ws...
Send me a copy when you're done. If its shocking yet TRUE--I can deal with it.
Another quote:
Actually I dont care what the workers do--booklet, platform, private talks or nothing. I intend to keep true to my vow to make the 2x2 history common knowledge to everyone ever associasted with that church. "
A vow intends to push something, doesn't it...there isn't a not caring if there's a vow, is there?
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Post by todd on Feb 20, 2009 21:20:11 GMT -5
Todd wrote: Just because you cant think of "how else" or another better way for WmI to excommuicate John Long and get WmI's "This is God's Only True Way on Earth" message out there to his lay people doesn't mean one doesn't exist. PROVIDED JL's excommunication had really been a necessary action, which it was not (It was a HUGE mistake) it could have been done in private. Several innies on here freaked out over the thought of a worker even telling about the start-up of your church from the platform--and here you are implying it was perfectly OK for WmI to excommuicate his co-worker from the conv. platform--in front of all these people? How would you feel if the workers in OZ excommunicated someone from the platform at your next convention? Do you have Double Standards??? By no means was I suggesting that is was OK, what WI did. Have a look what I said... "WI did a very horrible thing to JL in front of all those people". How can you think that I was suggesting that it was OK for WI to do this? It would have been the most humiliating experience for JL. But WI wanted to be the king pin and make himself the 'boss', so how else was he to do that than kick JL out and turn everybody against him? That is a question by the way... I am not suggesting that this was WI's only option to acheive what he wanted, but it was very effective. Just very wrong also. But that's WI for you. Too much pride. Thought he was the authority. Wanted others to believe that. It worked in some cases. There are still people today that believe that. But he forgot that a higher power was in control. And that was his demise. Even after he was gone, he was still trying to restore some pride and ownership of it by saying that it was just an experiment. Despite that these words were spoken by a man who was ticked of that he no longer had control, people still believed him. They take this as the truth. Sad.
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Post by todd on Feb 20, 2009 21:25:11 GMT -5
I guess Willis Propp excommunications could be placed in the same category as William Irvine with him excommunicating people. Modern day William Irvine. What some workers fail to understand is that God has never given them the right to hire and fire on his behalf. How did you find out this?
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Post by todd on Feb 20, 2009 21:33:22 GMT -5
FWIW, I haven't met an ex yet who wasn't extremely glad they learned the truth about the origins-even tho they may have been shocked at first. Some thank God every day for this knowledge. How people react to the shock is their perogative...I'm just responsible to expose the falsehood. If I went into a town and told them all that a meteorite is heading their way, they would be shocked at first, but then extremely glad that that I told them... until they realised that I wasn't telling the truth
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Post by JO on Feb 20, 2009 21:34:54 GMT -5
What some workers fail to understand is that God has never given them the right to hire and fire on his behalf. How did you find out this? Prayer, reading the bible, seeking the Spirit's leading.
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Post by JO on Feb 20, 2009 21:37:36 GMT -5
FWIW, I haven't met an ex yet who wasn't extremely glad they learned the truth about the origins-even tho they may have been shocked at first. Some thank God every day for this knowledge. How people react to the shock is their perogative...I'm just responsible to expose the falsehood. If I went into a town and told them all that a meteorite is heading their way, they would be shocked at first, but then extremely glad that that I told them... until they realised that I wasn't telling the truth Get used to it Todd, salvation is in Jesus who is the way, the truth and the life. It never was in a one-true-way religion.
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Post by CherieKropp on Feb 20, 2009 21:42:53 GMT -5
Your version of the history is better than mine. You wouldn't like mine. My version is too positive. I think you're just too lazy to write one...
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Post by lin on Feb 20, 2009 22:03:18 GMT -5
Be careful your hate is showing.
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Post by todd on Feb 20, 2009 22:14:01 GMT -5
So true, Lin! However as there are religious buffs, there are history buffs in this world we live in.....and if a history is to be finalized, maybe it is wise to make sure that it is as near correct as possible....maybe I'm a bit of one too much of giving credit where credit is due, but then since it's purported that a lie has already been aired for over 100 yrs. about the truth's fellowship...I feel personally that to get it right the second 100 yrs. might be more helpful....I could be wrong, often am! I doubt the lie has been going anywhere near that long. Here's why: When early workers spoke of "what is from the beginning" they were not referring to the mission that William Irvine started. When they first started claiming "we did not start this Jesus' way" they were not referring to the mission William Irvine started. When they first started speaking of "the way of God" they were not referring to the mission William Irvine started. Still today, when the workers talk about the way of God, they are talking about the way of God. I have never heard them mention WI's name when talking about the way of God. Please accept that the workers are working for God. They are preaching about his way. God's way didn't start 111 years ago. If it was OK for the first ones to say that they didn't start anything new but that this way was from the shores of Galilee, at what point does it become not ok for future workers to say this? Could you name that worker? Maybe we are starting to get closer to narrowing down the founder of what people are calling the 2x2 or F&W. If at that point people think it became a religion or man made that they couldn't say it began with Jesus, then that would be the start of it, because the others said that they weren't starting anything. It seems like we have been looking at the wrong generation to find a founder. What a waste of time. We are never going to find out what should be put on Cheries pamphlets Anyway, I happen to know that this isn't a religion that I am part of. I have never had membership and it isn't even possible to have membership. You just have to serve God. This is all about following the way of God. Anybody who thinks that the way they are following started 111 years ago is following the wrong way. The way that we should be following, was being followed in Galilee many years ago, and if you have been fooled into thinking otherwise, then you have been serving and following the wrong things. If you mistakenly thought that the workers were wrong when they said that there is only one way, and you tried to believe that that this one way is not exclusive, then you are also looking at the some other way than this. This way is very exclusive, and it is the only way. If you are outside this way on the judgement day, you will not be saved. So, my questions to Jesusonly are... At what point did the workers saying "This way started with Jesus" become to mean something else, that it then became a lie? Why can't it always mean the same thing?
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Post by todd on Feb 20, 2009 22:23:43 GMT -5
How did you find out this? Prayer, reading the bible, seeking the Spirit's leading. Can you quote some of the verses? I have read places in the bible were God did use workers to 'sack' people.
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Post by Sharon on Feb 20, 2009 23:54:19 GMT -5
I doubt the lie has been going anywhere near that long. Here's why: When early workers spoke of "what is from the beginning" they were not referring to the mission that William Irvine started. When they first started claiming "we did not start this Jesus' way" they were not referring to the mission William Irvine started. When they first started speaking of "the way of God" they were not referring to the mission William Irvine started. Still today, when the workers talk about the way of God, they are talking about the way of God. I have never heard them mention WI's name when talking about the way of God. Please accept that the workers are working for God. They are preaching about his way. God's way didn't start 111 years ago. If it was OK for the first ones to say that they didn't start anything new but that this way was from the shores of Galilee, at what point does it become not ok for future workers to say this? Could you name that worker? Maybe we are starting to get closer to narrowing down the founder of what people are calling the 2x2 or F&W. If at that point people think it became a religion or man made that they couldn't say it began with Jesus, then that would be the start of it, because the others said that they weren't starting anything. It seems like we have been looking at the wrong generation to find a founder. What a waste of time. We are never going to find out what should be put on Cheries pamphlets Anyway, I happen to know that this isn't a religion that I am part of. I have never had membership and it isn't even possible to have membership. You just have to serve God. This is all about following the way of God. Anybody who thinks that the way they are following started 111 years ago is following the wrong way. The way that we should be following, was being followed in Galilee many years ago, and if you have been fooled into thinking otherwise, then you have been serving and following the wrong things. If you mistakenly thought that the workers were wrong when they said that there is only one way, and you tried to believe that that this one way is not exclusive, then you are also looking at the some other way than this. This way is very exclusive, and it is the only way. If you are outside this way on the judgement day, you will not be saved. So, my questions to Jesusonly are... At what point did the workers saying "This way started with Jesus" become to mean something else, that it then became a lie? Why can't it always mean the same thing? todd, some of us have been lucky in that we never heard workers say that the truth's fellowship came all the way from the shores of Galillee....however, in all fairness some say that they heard it said that way! Now I am not going to say they're sadly mistaken because I wasn't there and they had the experience, and the experience has affected them adversely and I'm very sorry about that! My heart goes out to them. Maybe If I give this little example of what I mean....when I was in nurses' training some years ago...we were told by our instructors to never question a patient's complaint of pain...because that is a subjective thing, they are the ones experiencing it and thus it isn't our place to question it. So I believe that for any person's subjective experience....they say it, they have experienced all the effects that experience might have on their lives.....sometimes negatively and sometimes positively. At the same time, I'd like for them to grant others the same freedom of expression of experience....it takes all kinds to make the world go around, doesn't it?
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Post by JO on Feb 21, 2009 4:10:25 GMT -5
I doubt the lie has been going anywhere near that long. Here's why: When early workers spoke of "what is from the beginning" they were not referring to the mission that William Irvine started. When they first started claiming "we did not start this Jesus' way" they were not referring to the mission William Irvine started. When they first started speaking of "the way of God" they were not referring to the mission William Irvine started. Still today, when the workers talk about the way of God, they are talking about the way of God. I have never heard them mention WI's name when talking about the way of God. Please accept that the workers are working for God. They are preaching about his way. God's way didn't start 111 years ago. If it was OK for the first ones to say that they didn't start anything new but that this way was from the shores of Galilee, at what point does it become not ok for future workers to say this? Could you name that worker? Maybe we are starting to get closer to narrowing down the founder of what people are calling the 2x2 or F&W. If at that point people think it became a religion or man made that they couldn't say it began with Jesus, then that would be the start of it, because the others said that they weren't starting anything. It seems like we have been looking at the wrong generation to find a founder. What a waste of time. We are never going to find out what should be put on Cheries pamphlets Anyway, I happen to know that this isn't a religion that I am part of. I have never had membership and it isn't even possible to have membership. You just have to serve God. This is all about following the way of God. Anybody who thinks that the way they are following started 111 years ago is following the wrong way. The way that we should be following, was being followed in Galilee many years ago, and if you have been fooled into thinking otherwise, then you have been serving and following the wrong things. If you mistakenly thought that the workers were wrong when they said that there is only one way, and you tried to believe that that this one way is not exclusive, then you are also looking at the some other way than this. This way is very exclusive, and it is the only way. If you are outside this way on the judgement day, you will not be saved. So, my questions to Jesusonly are... At what point did the workers saying "This way started with Jesus" become to mean something else, that it then became a lie? Why can't it always mean the same thing? Todd, you are correct – God’s way started a very long time before William Irvine’s mission that George Walker, the Carrolls, Wilson McClung, Eddie Coonie, Gaylen Van Loon, James Abbott, Andrew Abernethy, Ed Alexander, Alan Anderson, Bertie Anderson, Clarence Anderson, Edgar Asplund, Barry Barkely, Uel Boyd, Harry Brownlee, William Bryant, Horace Burgess, Weldon Burgess, Hubert Childers, Tom Clark, Kenion Coleman, Young Coleman, Richard Cornell, Milas Crapps, Carson Cowan, John Denniker, Kenneth Dissmore, Dennis Fenton, Jerome Frandle, Tommy Gamble, Glenn Gasser, Clinton Goff, Leonard Hawkes, Norman Henderson, Ira Hobbs, Joe Hobbs, Sydney Holt, Duane Hopkins, Garrett Hughes, Jack Jackson, James Jardine, Nichol Jardine, Harry Johnson, Evan Jones, Sam Jones, Johan Kotze, Roy Lacy, George Lee, Ken Lerwick, Leroy Lerwick, William Lewis, Stanley March, Nathan McCarthy, Sam McCracken, Richard Middleton, Alton Mose, Jack Mulkey, Howard Nussbaum, Erling Omdal, Ken Pagington, George Peterson, Willie Pollock, George Poole, Frank Porter, Jim Price, Don Reynolds, Gilbert Ricter, Ernest Robinson, Irving Ross, Randy Satterfield, Dale Shultz, Ralph Sines, Leo Stancliff, Charles Steffen, Everett Swanson, Charles Thain, Jeff Thayer, Ron Thomke, Horace Toddhunter, Tom Turner, Frank Tyson, James Walden, Carson Wallace, Leslie White, Lloyd Wilson, Taylor Wood. Haakon Ausenhus, Mildred Ausenhus, Harold Bennett, Alan Blonke, Arnold Blonke, Harriet Borthwick, Marion Crawford, Andrew Drummond, Eddie Drummond, Dale Ford, Lloyd Haugen, Rowland Jackson, Willie Jamieson, Ruth Lindman, Ruby Long, Mary Manning, Howard Mooney, Ernest Nelson, Willis Propp, Jack Price, Frances Saunders, Helen Sharp, Paul Sharp, Tharold Sylvester, Eldon Tenniswood, Dorothy Tessman, Tom Young et al worked in. Believe it or not Todd, many people place their faith in the church group these folks represented, and even refer to it as the truth and way! Of course, you and I know that Jesus Christ himself is the way, the truth and the life. When workers say things like “This way started with Jesus” and people interpret that to mean “this ministry, this Christian group started with Jesus”, then it’s a lie because “this ministry” started with William Irvine while he was a worker with the Faith Mission and the meeting/convention system evolved from that mission. If workers wanted to minimize confusion they would explain that their ministry movement started around the turn of the 20th Century but that is not where our faith rests. Our faith is in Christ himself.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2009 8:00:10 GMT -5
The solution is really that simple.
The average person does not want all the details, just the simple truth. There will always be some who are interested in the details and as siwells suggested, perhaps it would be a good idea to have a concise history written up by someone, perhaps a professional historian. But at least we should start with the simple truth.
It's remarkable that more than a quarter century after "the news" of the beginnings of the ministry group came out in the Secret Sect, we are still unable to simply acknowledge the beginning of the mission around 1900. Had we humbled ourselves and acknowledged the truth back then, there would not be hundreds and hundreds of posts on the subject here today, nor would there be hundreds of people leaving the meetings because they felt lied to.
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