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Post by bryan2 on Oct 27, 2004 14:53:22 GMT -5
My guess is that Kerry will win...
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Post by botany on Oct 27, 2004 16:00:21 GMT -5
Kerry will win by a slim margin, but Cheney will follow soon afterwards with an all-out attack on the nation, tracking down everybody who voted for Kerry and killing them for being terrorists. Then, he will accuse Kerry and Edwards for being terrorists, and execute them. With the "throne" being vacated, Cheney will then assume control as the supreme dictator for life of the U.S. Or, perhaps that won't happen. Sounds kind fun, though. We haven't had a good war on American soil for over 100 years. It's about time. Back to my peace pipe... andy
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Post by Bush on Oct 27, 2004 16:35:53 GMT -5
I am not giving up hope. BUSH, please.
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Post by p on Oct 27, 2004 16:49:07 GMT -5
Ohio and Florida are the problems. Especially Ohio. Bush should have gone after Kerry's liberalism. Don't make so many new videos. Just hammer the same ones over and over again about Kerry's liberalism.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 27, 2004 21:53:52 GMT -5
Yea, smoke another one.
Robb ;D
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Post by HA on Oct 28, 2004 2:31:45 GMT -5
Who will win ?? Bush will as he already started cheating ... Fla. County Says Absentee Ballots Missing Wed Oct 27, 4:26 PM ET FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - Up to 58,000 absentee ballots may never have reached the Broward County voters who requested them more than two weeks ago, election officials said, and state police are investigating. Hundreds of people have called the county elections office to complain that they never got their ballots. The phone system was so overwhelmed some frustrated voters could not get through. The county election office said the problem involved ballots mailed on Oct. 7-8, though the number of those actually missing was uncertain. Some absentee ballots mailed on those dates have already been returned to be counted. "We are trying to determine what occurred and whether there was any kind of criminal violation," said Paige Patterson-Hughes, spokeswoman for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. The county blamed the U.S. Postal Service. "That is something beyond our control," Deputy Supervisor of Elections Gisela Salas said. "We really have no idea what's going on." Postal officials said the post office was not to blame. "We have employees that we assign to handle the absentee ballots that come in," said Enola C. Rice, a Postal Service spokeswoman in South Florida. "So all the absentee ballots that are received by the Postal Service are processed and delivered immediately." Absentee voters who did not receive a ballot can request another, which officials said would be sent by overnight mail. In 2000, Broward gave Democrat Al Gore (news - web sites) his biggest margin among Florida counties. He received 67 percent of the vote there, while losing the state to George W. Bush by just 537 votes. From story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=718&e=10&u=/ap/20041027/ap_on_re_us/missing_absentee_ballots
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Post by HA on Oct 30, 2004 11:32:04 GMT -5
A crisis of trust: dirty tricks on both sides mean result is likely to be decided in the courts again
By Andrew Gumbel in Los Angeles 30 October 2004
Three days before America's most important election in decades, the country is praying that chaos will not ensue this time, and the world's so-called beacon of democracy will not have to ask the Supreme Court again to decide who will be President.
Things have already started to go wrong. In Florida, 60,000 absentee ballots in a predominantly Democratic county have vanished without trace, and are only partly being replaced after a public outcry.
In Ohio, the Republican Party is trying to have 35,000 new voters thrown off the rolls on the mere suspicion their paperwork is not ship-shape. In Nevada and Oregon, police have pulled the voter registration forms of hundreds of declared Democrats out of rubbish bins, where they were allegedly thrown by employees of a Republican consulting firm posing as a non-partisan voting rights organisation.
In several states, the Republican Party intends to post thousands of vote "challengers" in polling stations, a technique historically associated with efforts to suppress the black vote in the segregationist Deep South. In Michigan, which has a huge urban black population, a Republican state senator has said: "If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election."
Welcome to the presidential race of 2004, where the stakes are so high and the fighting so fierce the system is starting to break down before a single vote has been counted. Unlike last time, when a nail-bitingly close race in Florida led to a 36-day legal battle, the lawyers are out in force well ahead of election day and the lawsuits are already flying 11 in Florida alone.
With them has come a torrent of accusations of vote fraud, voter suppression and abuse of power by election officials. Problems seem inevitable, not only because of the furious battles waged over the management of absentee ballots, provisional ballots, voter rolls and other bureaucratic arcana, but also because the new generation of electronic voting machines replacing the reviled old punchcards have been shown to be unreliable, unverifiable and alarmingly prone to malicious intervention.
What we do not yet know and cannot know until Tuesday night is whether the dysfunctions of the world's most powerful democracy will interfere with the outcome of the presidential contest. At first blush, it seems most improbable that the election could turn, once again, on a few hundred votes in a crucial swing state.
On the other hand, the polls indicate a race every bit as close as Bush versus Gore. And it is important to remember that Florida was far from the only problem last time.
In four states Florida, New Hampshire, New Mexico and Oregon the number of disqualified ballots exceeded the margin of victory, making them ripe for recount battles. The reason we heard only about Florida was the others did not control enough electoral votes to sway the outcome.
Overall, two million votes went uncounted in 2000 because of spoiled, unmarked or uncounted ballots. When you include the number turned away from the polls for reasons of bureaucratic incompetence or intimidation, the number of voters barred from exercising their franchise mushrooms to between four and six million.
Could it be as bad this time? In some ways, it could be worse, especially if the race is tight and the margins of victory in two or more swing states are below 0.5 per cent. With thousands of lawyers fanned out across the country, there is every prospect that this election will, like the last one, be settled in court.
Some things have improved since 2000. Every state is now obliged to organise provisional balloting in case of questions about a voter's eligibility on polling day. Early voting has expanded enormously, relieving the pressure on election day. Perhaps most importantly, people are more aware of the problems and are monitoring the process with vigilance.
But any trust between the parties has been poisoned. The Republicans accuse the Democrats of trying to fatten the voter rolls with non-citizens, felons, dead people, fictional characters and cats; Democrats accuse Republicans of trying to suppress legal votes and using racist tactics to keep black voters away.
Both sets of accusations are probably accurate to some degree, but in terms of sheer numbers it is the Democrats who have the more legitimate grievance. Take the vote challenger issue. In Kentucky, which is not a swing state, the Republican Party agreed not to post challengers after its own black supporters said it was an openly racist tactic. In Ohio and Florida, however, the Republican leadership has actively encouraged it.
"I don't think it will cause problems," Florida Governor Jeb Bush, the president's brother, said earlier this week. Democratic Party spokeswoman Christine Anderson countered: "It seems to us the Republicans are making a very proactive and blatant strategy to discourage turnout and deny citizens the right to vote."
But one Associated Press poll found most voters assume voting will conclude with a legal battle. Two-thirds of Democrats and 56 per cent of Republicans expect to wake on Wednesday to find the race unresolved.
VOTER REGISTRATION Get-out-the-vote drives by both camps will attract hundreds of thousands of new voters. But will their names be on the rolls in time? Meanwhile, the Republicans claim that many voters have been fraudulently or incorrectly registered and are challenging 35,000 new registrations in Ohio alone. In Oregon and Nevada, a Republican-linked firm has been accused of throwing away thousands of new Democrat registrations.
INTIMIDATION In 2000, it was alleged that police officers were used at polling stations to scare away voters from Democrat-leaning minority groups. This time, both parties will dispatch crowds of volunteers to polling stations, in theory to monitor the process. But each side says the other will use them to scare away rival voters. "If no signs of intimidation have emerged yet, launch a pre-emptive strike," advises one Democrat handbook.
TOUCH-SCREEN VOTING After the "hanging chads" nightmare in 2000, many states have invested in electronic voting machines. But these may introduce new problems. None has been tested in a presidential election. In the event of recounts, few produce a paper record of votes, which will make verification difficult. Other risks include malfunctioningmachines or computer servers, and the possibility that outsiders could hack into the system.
ABSENTEE BALLOTS Record numbers of absentee ballots are being returned from overseas. Counting them could attract a landslide of challenges. But what happens in states where Ralph Nader has only recently been disqualified although thousands have already voted for him? In Florida,it was alleged this week that 60,000 Broward Countyballots were never delivered. Officials are scrambling to send them out again. Will they arrive in time? Will some people get two?
PROVISIONAL BALLOTS A new federal law encourages states to issue provisional voting status to people whose status as bona fide voters is for some reason in dispute (say, if their names are not on the rolls) on election day. But some details have not been settled. For instance, if a provisional ballot is cast at the wrong precinct, should it count or not? Lawsuits are already flying in both directions in several states over this particular issue.
PURGE LISTS Civil rights groups say some states are using "purge" lists (which bar anyone with a criminal record from voting) that will also prevent legitimate voters from casting ballots. About five million Americans have had their voting rights stripped in this way. Florida tried to revamp its purge list after flaws were revealed in 2000, but gave up. More than 2,000 Floridians are now challenging determinations that they cannot vote.
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Post by HA on Oct 30, 2004 11:34:54 GMT -5
What a nice democracy ! Even some African states may be more honest and democratic. And the USA wants to dictate its will to the rest of the world ...
HA HA HA - what a joke !
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 30, 2004 22:01:35 GMT -5
HA,
Your hatred and/or ignorance is again rearing its ugly head. FYI, the US is a Republic not a democracy.
Robb
PS I am predicting a Kerry win. I wonder if it may be a time of judgement on our nation for our many, many sins (abortion and sodomy, etc).
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Cindi
Senior Member
Posts: 311
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Post by Cindi on Oct 30, 2004 22:32:17 GMT -5
I think he spent his advertising bucks better - nothing more. His nasty nasty throw it in your face campaign will maybe win him the office.
All I have to say is if he wins - his PLAN had better be a plan that works for all "regular" people as he said. Or he will have spent his only 4 yrs (if he lasts that long) in the oval office.
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Post by Repulsed on Oct 31, 2004 3:37:25 GMT -5
But any trust between the parties has been poisoned. The Republicans accuse the Democrats of trying to fatten the voter rolls with non-citizens, felons, dead people, fictional characters and cats; Democrats accuse Republicans of trying to suppress legal votes and using racist tactics to keep black voters away. Both sets of accusations are probably accurate to some degree, but in terms of sheer numbers it is the Democrats who have the more legitimate grievance. Take the vote challenger issue. In Kentucky, which is not a swing state, the Republican Party agreed not to post challengers after its own black supporters said it was an openly racist tactic. In Ohio and Florida, however, the Republican leadership has actively encouraged it. "I don't think it will cause problems," Florida Governor Jeb Bush, the president's brother, said earlier this week. Democratic Party spokeswoman Christine Anderson countered: "It seems to us the Republicans are making a very proactive and blatant strategy to discourage turnout and deny citizens the right to vote." VOTER REGISTRATION Get-out-the-vote drives by both camps will attract hundreds of thousands of new voters. But will their names be on the rolls in time? Meanwhile, the Republicans claim that many voters have been fraudulently or incorrectly registered and are challenging 35,000 new registrations in Ohio alone. In Oregon and Nevada, a Republican-linked firm has been accused of throwing away thousands of new Democrat registrations. INTIMIDATION In 2000, it was alleged that police officers were used at polling stations to scare away voters from Democrat-leaning minority groups. This time, both parties will dispatch crowds of volunteers to polling stations, in theory to monitor the process. But each side says the other will use them to scare away rival voters. "If no signs of intimidation have emerged yet, launch a pre-emptive strike," advises one Democrat handbook. Republicans cheated in 2000. They are outdoing themselves this time.
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Post by bryan2 on Oct 31, 2004 3:55:06 GMT -5
Republicans cheated in 2000. yes yes yes... we are evil.... we cheat... we steal... we make grandmas eat dog food... we put guns into the hands of children... and we will do anything to keep our holy power...
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Post by HA on Oct 31, 2004 9:45:34 GMT -5
Your hatred and/or ignorance is again rearing its ugly head. FYI, the US is a Republic not a democracy. Sorry Robb - the picture shows today's USA. The photographer is neither hating it nor ignoring it. It is the people of the USA (at least some of them) who chose to hide their heads in the sand. And how real you are - a republic (like Rome) not a democracy (like Athens).
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Post by face it on Oct 31, 2004 13:22:30 GMT -5
Both sides are overstating the fraud thing. This election will be free and fair. Both men are good men who plan on doing the best for our country. We just have to learn not to depend upon government for the solutions to our problems. America will thrive and survive regardless who is elected. The office is powerless. Power rests in the hands of Congress. Kerry and Bush are both fine men and should have our support.
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Post by bryan2 on Nov 3, 2004 12:35:49 GMT -5
My guess is that Kerry will win... Sorry... I was wrong... Please forgive me...
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Cindi
Senior Member
Posts: 311
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Post by Cindi on Nov 3, 2004 12:40:15 GMT -5
I am glad that you were wrong Bryan. Have a great day.
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Post by happy on Nov 3, 2004 12:43:46 GMT -5
YEA!!! Bryan was wrong! yippee. (no offense to you, Bryan...you know what I mean!)
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