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Post by happy on Oct 11, 2004 13:43:04 GMT -5
Has there been a discussion on this board about this subject? I am curious about opinions.....If you know of a discussion, do you have any idea of the catagory on the board and the approximate month/year? I wish there was a "search" on here! Thanks, Happy
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Post by Bertine Louise on Oct 12, 2004 19:15:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure anymore whether there has been a discussion, but i know I once considered starting one! I was a big Harry Potter fan. I didn't like the last book much though. I used to be very sceptical about a children's bookseries that was devoured by the masses. But Harry eventually put his spell on me too..
What exactly did you wanna talk about?
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Post by botany on Oct 12, 2004 20:02:28 GMT -5
Hairy potter: A person, with an unusual amount of hair covering their body, that transplants plants into pots. Hairy potherb: An edible vegetable that exhibits a large amount of pubescence. Hairy pothead: A marijuana smoker who doesn't shave. Hairy putter: A golf putter covered with hair, or, a golfer with lots of hair. Harry potheads: What the governments does to people that smoke marijuana. (shame on the govt!) andy
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Post by happy on Oct 13, 2004 17:40:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure anymore whether there has been a discussion, but i know I once considered starting one! I was a big Harry Potter fan. I didn't like the last book much though. I used to be very sceptical about a children's bookseries that was devoured by the masses. But Harry eventually put his spell on me too.. What exactly did you wanna talk about? Bertine, Thanks for responding. I posted on the PMB and got some feedback there as well. Basically, I don't have time to read the first HP book right now and wasn't sure if I should allow my kids to read them. I remember and see currently, a lot of hoopla about it being witchcraft. I loved fantasy as a kid and wanted to know the difference. I have borrowed the first book on tape from the library and am listening to it on my commutes. I decided to just form my own opinion. Thanks, Happy
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Cindi
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Posts: 311
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Post by Cindi on Oct 14, 2004 16:02:36 GMT -5
I loved the movies. My niece loved the books also.
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Post by happy on Oct 15, 2004 9:24:01 GMT -5
About the movies....I am not against them. We have/watch TV. However, I am pretty selective about what my kids watch. I have one who has a photographic memory and internalizes scarey scenes. Then he has nightmares. So...I find that books are much safer at this time as we create our own pictures in our mind. Also, being an "educator", I believe one should ALWAYS read the book before the movie! Eventually, the I'll venture to the movies.... Thanks for you thoughts!
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Post by Heather on Oct 15, 2004 11:20:05 GMT -5
My "professing" neice LOVES the Harry Potter books and she hasn't turned into a witch yet..so.. I never read them myself but can't see how they would be any different than any other fantasy book. We can read about magic in basic fairy tales like Snow White or Cinderella.
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Brenda
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Posts: 652
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Post by Brenda on Oct 15, 2004 11:46:28 GMT -5
Loved the books and the movies!! My whole family has read them and also my professing mother-- cant wait to read all of them
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 15, 2004 13:02:13 GMT -5
There are so many edifying things that I would like to surround my children with but I don't see a diversion into the occult based fantasy world of HP as one of them.
How about reading about real men like Moses, King David, Jesus, George Washington, Jonathon Edwards, Stonewall Jackson, Davy Crockett, etc? How on earth can we afford time for such silliness (HP) with all the benificial knowledge that can be gained?
Robb
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Post by Quite a group on Oct 15, 2004 14:02:12 GMT -5
There are so many edifying things that I would like to surround my children with but I don't see a diversion into the occult based fantasy world of HP as one of them. How about reading about real men like Moses, King David, Jesus, George Washington, Jonathon Edwards, Stonewall Jackson, Davy Crockett, etc? How on earth can we afford time for such silliness (HP) with all the benificial knowledge that can be gained? Robb You have named a murderer, a couple of adulterers, some drunks, and at least one cruel racist. Holding these people up as heros is just as much a myth as HP.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 15, 2004 15:26:56 GMT -5
First, the term used was "real men", not heros. Second, you are correct if you are suggesting all of these men were deeply flawed and sinfull (except Jesus of course), that is part of what makes them "real men". Studying thier lives gives evidence of God's work in them and His grace dispite thier own sinfulness. This gives me hope for my life.
I wonder if you will reveal your own ignorance by stating who it is amoung those men that you consider to be a cruel racist.
Robb
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Post by Heather on Oct 16, 2004 8:46:16 GMT -5
I see nothing wrong with letting my children experience the magic of childhood. Some of my best memories are sitting down with my Mom reading Snow White or Cinderella.
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 16, 2004 9:02:01 GMT -5
I agree. Lets not keep them from the magic of learning about other real people in other times and places.
Did you enjoy Snow White and Cinderella more than the Elsie Dinsmore series, Mary of Plymouth, or the Laura Ingalls Wilder books that she read to you?
Robb
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Post by Heather on Oct 16, 2004 9:53:49 GMT -5
I liked Laura Ingalls Wilder too. It doesn't have to be an either/or, children can enjoy both types of stories.
I actually got to where I felt real empathy for Laura Ingalls Wilder because when I started elementary school kids would tell me that I looked like her since I had those dratted braids and dresses all the time.
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Cindi
Senior Member
Posts: 311
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Post by Cindi on Oct 16, 2004 11:58:02 GMT -5
lol Heather! I never thought of that!
Little house girls. Yes we would have looked similar.
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Post by MG on Oct 16, 2004 20:11:59 GMT -5
I liked Laura Ingalls Wilder too. It doesn't have to be an either/or, children can enjoy both types of stories. How true!
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Post by botany on Oct 17, 2004 2:02:48 GMT -5
There are so many edifying things that I would like to surround my children with but I don't see a diversion into the occult based fantasy world of HP as one of them. How about reading about real men like Moses, King David, Jesus, George Washington, Jonathon Edwards, Stonewall Jackson, Davy Crockett, etc? How on earth can we afford time for such silliness (HP) with all the benificial knowledge that can be gained? Robb "All work, no play..." Drives people crazy! All seriousness with no outlet drives people insane. Or into depression -- which hurts families, friends, neighbors, co-workers, and many more people. To limit yourself to only the "real men" is living in a fantasy world where only the "good" guys live. Know what I say to that? REVERT TO YOUR CHILDHOOD, YOU FREAKIN' SQUARE! Yes, I agree that children tend to live in the "good guys" world, but they sure as hell do know how to have fun and live life. We can all learn a huge lesson from watching kids play. Their imagination is astounding, not limited by what "higher" education does. Take sandboxes for example. How many hours can a pile of sand entertain an adult? How many hours can that same pile of sand entertain a child? Or how about a bunch of little blocks? Or how about Legos? Or combine Legos and the blocks? Pretty soon we get on the level of days, weeks, months. The toys can keep children coming back to them for a very long time, all because they are not limited to the confines of what they can learn from some historical person through questionably accurate sources. All work and no play...... andy
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 17, 2004 20:58:25 GMT -5
What about those of us who consider our work to be play? Actually, you have totally missed the point, Andy. The question is not about work vs play, its about fantasy vs reality. When our children are playing, are you suggesting that it is better for our children to be pretending to be Harry Potter casting spells and flying around the school yard than George Washington fighting for his country? Do you have a problem with our children pretending to drive a John Deere tractor that is "just like daddys" instead of pretending to fly on a broom stick that is "just like Harry's"? I wonder if one reason that so many are enamored with fantasy is that they feel ill equipped to deal with reality. Let's help equip our youngsters to face reality rather that hide from it in their make believe fantasy worlds... and yes, that includes what they see and read and therefore what they play. Robb
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King of the Wild Frontier
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Post by King of the Wild Frontier on Oct 17, 2004 21:51:45 GMT -5
First, the term used was "real men", not heros. Have your children read the pablum that is being served as history and these real men will become their heros. I am not suggesting it at all. I am saying that is what history has shown to be the case. You must have read different histories than I have. I see you are doubting. How would pointing out the cruel racist reveal my ignorance? Knowledge is now a sign of ignorance?
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 17, 2004 23:20:41 GMT -5
Yes, based upon your posts I am doubting your knowledge of history. Of course I was just setting you up to reveal your ignorance as you attempted to show your knowledge. I assumed that you would bite and spew the pro union, anti south, revisionist retoric that you learned in the govt schools, but maybe I assumed wrong. Robb
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Post by You dont say on Oct 17, 2004 23:57:50 GMT -5
Yes, based upon your posts I am doubting your knowledge of history. Of course I was just setting you up to reveal your ignorance as you attempted to show your knowledge. I assumed that you would bite and spew the pro union, anti south, revisionist retoric that you learned in the govt schools, but maybe I assumed wrong. Robb Which historical inaccuracy led you to this conclusion?
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 18, 2004 8:54:43 GMT -5
As you can see, the unnamed poster has wisely not made the "cruel racist" accusation against anyone in particular yet (they just said there was a "cruel racist" in that list of men). Based upon this, I really don't know which specific historical inaccurancy the unnmamed poster has bought into. I only know that there is no real evidence to suggest that any of those men were "cruel racists", despite the desire of many to rewrite history in regards to these men.
Robb
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Post by Cruel racists on Oct 18, 2004 9:58:11 GMT -5
As you can see, the unnamed poster has wisely not made the "cruel racist" accusation against anyone in particular yet (they just said there was a "cruel racist" in that list of men). Based upon this, I really don't know which specific historical inaccurancy the unnmamed poster has bought into. I only know that there is no real evidence to suggest that any of those men were "cruel racists", despite the desire of many to rewrite history in regards to these men. Robb A racist is one who holds the belief that differences in human character or ability are due to race. They also believe that a particular race is superior to others. This would be the case with any slave holder. Slaves were routinely tied and beaten. Perhaps not cruel by your standards. The indian wars in Florida, under the command of Andrew Jackson were racist and the victims were treated often mutilated by the soldiers and guides. There are records that Crockett, under the command of Uriah Blue, on occasion joined in. Do you really believe that the US army's fight against the natives was not racist and cruel?
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Post by Robb Klaty on Oct 18, 2004 10:47:17 GMT -5
You are making a false assumption that a slave holder is always a racist. Revisionist historians would like to paint all slave owners as racists, but the truth does not bear this out. Of course, depending on ones definition of "cruel racist", it could be argued that people like Jesse Jackson fit the label due to their desire to keep black people in bondage to the government master rather than truly freeing them and expecting them to succeed in our country independant of their government master. True and cruel. However this does not mean that anyone on the list did this. Are you suggesting that someone did? If so, who? I love how you attempt to connect the dots with your own brand of logic, however your agument is actually illogical. I am sure there were components of racism on both sides... that is human nature. But again, the fact that racism exists does not itself prove any specific person who lived at that time or fought in a particular war is therefore a "cruel racist". Btw, what does Andrew Jackson have to do with this conversation... I don't believe he was on the list. Robb
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Post by happy on Oct 18, 2004 12:04:41 GMT -5
What about those of us who consider our work to be play? Actually, you have totally missed the point, Andy. The question is not about work vs play, its about fantasy vs reality. When our children are playing, are you suggesting that it is better for our children to be pretending to be Harry Potter casting spells and flying around the school yard than George Washington fighting for his country? Do you have a problem with our children pretending to drive a John Deere tractor that is "just like daddys" instead of pretending to fly on a broom stick that is "just like Harry's"? I wonder if one reason that so many are enamored with fantasy is that they feel ill equipped to deal with reality. Let's help equip our youngsters to face reality rather that hide from it in their make believe fantasy worlds... and yes, that includes what they see and read and therefore what they play. Robb Robb, This post struck a cord with me. I think you have a very valid point. Today's kids are lacking valid role models. It is sickening to me that many would like to have dinner with Britney Spears or M&M. Many kids don't have parents who spend time with them and are role models to them. I can see where fantasy could be an issue in cases like this. Not that I've made my decision yet....I'm still on book one.....but you make a good point here... Happy
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Post by Reality on Oct 18, 2004 17:23:36 GMT -5
When our children are playing, are you suggesting that it is better for our children to be pretending to be Harry Potter casting spells and flying around the school yard than George Washington fighting for his country? George Washington wouldn't likely measure up to your standards if you knew more about him. "FORD FAMILY:There are several known sex scandals associated with George Washington. John C. Fizpatrick's, "The George Washington Scandals", Manuscript Division of Library of Congress" page 389 discussed these scandals in a 1927 article. These scandals have not been proven as fact, but have been bandied about for years. The scandals consist of "Sweet Kate" the mulatto, washer-woman's daughter who may have slept with Washington. George Washington's use of ciphers next to various female slaves listed in several of his diaries have also been circumspect; and that his fatal illness of December 13, 1799, was the result of an assignation with an overseer's wife. Many historians will now concede George Washington's love for Sally Fairfax, his best friend's wife. In Thomas Flexner's book, "George Washington – The Forge of Experience" page 198, depicts a letter George Washington wrote to Sally Fairfax in which he states his unrequited love for her. " www.westfordlegacy.com/mvmtg/qa.htmlGenerations of children have been exposed to and dealt with both reality and fantasy. You cannot stop a child, or adult, from having and exercising their imagination.
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Post by Gee on Oct 18, 2004 17:41:03 GMT -5
You are making a false assumption that a slave holder is always a racist. You are right Rob. The slave holders felt that the negroid race was in every way equal to the white race.
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Post by botany on Oct 18, 2004 23:21:31 GMT -5
What about those of us who consider our work to be play? If your work is play, then is it really work? Pretending to be Harry Potter or G. Washington... what's the difference? Both are pretending. Washington killed people. Harry Potter solved mysteries. Quite a difference. As a kid I played with hockey sticks pretending they were muskets after learning about the Revolutionary War. I was pretending to kill people. Is that really all that much better than pretending to cast spells? Nothing wrong with pretending to drive a John Deere. I remember my bicycle being an 18-wheeler, a motorcycle, a cop car... you name it. Quite the versatile bike, if you ask me. Did you read fiction books while growing up? What books did you read? How did they affect your ability to cope with reality? My ability to cope with reality has evovled largely from life experiences. I don't know about your ability to cope with reality, but I highly suspect it came much the same way. And I'm willing to bet that is the same case with billions of people. Why force kids to "face" reality when they're kids?! Let kids be kids. Let them enjoy life, and play, and pretend. They'll [hopefully] have plenty of their life ahead of them to deal with reality, but for the love of the children, let them enjoy being children!andy
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