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Post by disgusted on Aug 27, 2006 18:27:18 GMT -5
Have you ever heard a worker put the friends as a group into their place? As if they are closer to God and their decisions are made by God and not "man"!
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Post by Uhm no on Aug 27, 2006 18:30:34 GMT -5
No.
Have you?
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Post by déjà vu on Aug 27, 2006 18:51:00 GMT -5
No , but I have heard workers say the are servants to us!
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Post by Bert unlogged on Aug 27, 2006 19:25:05 GMT -5
Don't know - You will have to give us the situation and we will take it from there.
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Post by GuestS on Aug 27, 2006 20:51:20 GMT -5
Have you ever heard a worker put the friends as a group into their place? As if they are closer to God and their decisions are made by God and not "man"! YUP
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Post by ithascome on Aug 27, 2006 22:25:01 GMT -5
I have heard workers correct friends at convention. noise control... clean up, lights out and the like.
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Post by guest who on Aug 27, 2006 22:28:58 GMT -5
At convention years ago, I was informed that my polo shirt, which sported a business logo, was not consistent with the non-commercial spirit of convention, and should be changed.
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Post by fair on Aug 28, 2006 0:01:08 GMT -5
At convention years ago, I was informed that my polo shirt, which sported a business logo, was not consistent with the non-commercial spirit of convention, and should be changed. fair enough should have been burnt ;D
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Post by Bert unlogged on Aug 28, 2006 0:35:18 GMT -5
Re Polo shirt - how does that make a Worker feel superior?
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Post by catch a clue on Aug 28, 2006 0:46:52 GMT -5
At convention years ago, I was informed that my polo shirt, which sported a business logo, was not consistent with the non-commercial spirit of convention, and should be changed. Actually, a shirt with a business logo is probably not consistent with what should be worn to ANY church.
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Maggie
Senior Member
Posts: 347
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Post by Maggie on Aug 28, 2006 6:36:00 GMT -5
This is a doctrine believed by and taught very clearly by Willis Propp and also believed and taught by many F&W in US and Canada. Willis described very specifically for many years that first is God, then angels, then workers, then elders (and others with "responsibility") then regular folk. I'm not sure how the heirarchy of superiority went after that. "Superior" is the correct word but some workers when asked about it will equivocate and dance around with word play suggesting that being closer to God doesn't necessarily mean superior. Although the ascending ladder to God is then described with workers higher on the ladder.
This also seems to be the opinion of most workers I've ever met, in many different countries but most keep this teaching in a very low key way. They believe it but do not want to be seen promoting it.
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Post by jxr on Aug 28, 2006 7:29:57 GMT -5
At convention years ago, I was informed that my polo shirt, which sported a business logo, was not consistent with the non-commercial spirit of convention, and should be changed. Actually, a shirt with a business logo is probably not consistent with what should be worn to ANY church. Only if it says "Wechsel" or "Pidgeons for Sale".
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Post by Brick on Aug 28, 2006 9:15:23 GMT -5
This is a doctrine believed by and taught very clearly by Willis Propp and also believed and taught by many F&W in US and Canada. I have never heard this message preached. But I don't know Willis P., either. I certainly have had the acquaintance of some workers who considered themselves to be the elite of God's kingdom based on their actions and attitude. I won't say that is the majority, but unfortunately, there are some. It has been my pleasure the last few years to have some really nice workers in our region. And we work hard to keep them that way!
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Post by jh62 on Aug 28, 2006 9:19:34 GMT -5
;DToo funny!
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Post by mrtindrucvionging on Aug 28, 2006 10:55:13 GMT -5
The workers and elders R the spiritual leaders of the 'truth'; and that's just the way it is. [but the elders usually answer to their wives, -haha-, and hold their church in high esteem and love, etc....] My attutude has changed trememdously toward workers the older I get. I do not consider them to be superior to non-workers whatsoever. And if truth be known, I really don't think MOST of them want to viewed that way either. I don't know about the old days, but these days, I guess the elders have just as much say-so in the group as workers when it comes to decisions that need to be made. It's really give and take and mutual esteem, as it should be...............
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Post by YUper on Aug 28, 2006 10:57:46 GMT -5
The workers and elders R the spiritual leaders of the 'truth'; and that's just the way it is. [but the elders usually answer to their wives, -haha-, and hold their church in high esteem and love, etc....] My attutude has changed trememdously toward workers the older I get. I do not consider them to be superior to non-workers whatsoever. And if truth be known, I really don't think MOST of them want to viewed that way either. I don't know about the old days, but these days, I guess the elders have just as much say-so in the group as workers when it comes to decisions that need to be made. It's really give and take and mutual esteem, as it should be............... Yuper, we know KN KN KN.
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Post by mrtindrucvionging on Aug 28, 2006 11:03:40 GMT -5
.......People instinctively look for and to leaders in any group; someone to lead and GUIDE, [hopefullynot dictate.] But to lead and guide in a loving/firm fashion; that is what people crave. Children crave it with parents and teachers and role models, patients crave it with caregivers, church members in ANY church crave it too. People want guidance, but we ultimately want to walk with God and have a personal relationship with Him and we get help to do that from others, be they any kind of brethren. .
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Post by Yes they do on Aug 28, 2006 11:20:10 GMT -5
Workers do think they are superior .....closer to GOD than the friends. Some have stated such.
A male worker informed me that they are the final authority, before one can get to GOD.
Incredible, he eliminated Jesus all together.
But honestly I laughed so hard I about doubled over, and when I could straighten up, I told him there was one mediator between GOD and man and His name is Jesus.
My question though, when they leave the work and begin to attend meetings as a former worker.... or should I say just one of the friends, ...do they maintain their "superior" standing or are they reduced to a lesser standing?...... hmmmm.....
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Post by guest who on Aug 28, 2006 11:28:37 GMT -5
Re Polo shirt - how does that make a Worker feel superior? I didn't say it did.
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Post by guest who on Aug 28, 2006 11:34:02 GMT -5
Only if it says "Wechsel" or "Pidgeons for Sale". I don't get it. Actually it just had the Amway logo on it.
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Post by Brick on Aug 28, 2006 11:36:32 GMT -5
My question though, when they leave the work and begin to attend meetings as a former worker.... or should I say just one of the friends, ...do they maintain their "superior" standing or are they reduced to a lesser standing?...... hmmmm..... It decreases over time. Sort of like coming down with a parachute. You know that they have landed when you see them at convention, not dressed in a workers' uniform, but spreading their feathers to entice the opposite sex.
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Post by Gene on Aug 28, 2006 14:01:17 GMT -5
Only if it says "Wechsel" or "Pidgeons for Sale". I don't get it. Actually it just had the Amway logo on it. I KNEW it! And in that case I'm afraid I would side with the worker, but would probably question the motive of the wearer before outright denouncing it. If the purpose of wearing it was to advertise one's association with Amway for the purpose of gaining prospective new recruits or as a conversation starter, then it was inappropriate to wear it there imo.
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Post by rewards on Aug 28, 2006 14:11:39 GMT -5
In their "works based" system, a worker wins more "reward points" due to having given up more than "the friends".
The "friends" may well have given up drinking and gambling, but in addition to those things, the workers have given up sex, marriage, and family.
An A-one, hearty friend can never hope to get the reward that even the lowlyest worker is entitled to.
There will be many mansions, but the worker mansion will be better than the friend mansion.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 28, 2006 14:14:51 GMT -5
Personally, I dont think there's anything wrong with the whole polo shirt/business logo. My dad wears his business logo polo shirts to wednesday night meeting and other places... not because he's promoting his workplace, but because the shirts are very nice, comfortable shirts. I mean, most polo shirts have some kind of logo on them, usually a label's logo (like a man riding a horse, a giraffe, a bird... or some kind of lettering). I notice this on all the big name brand shirts- and even the not so famous ones. Whats the difference between a business logo and a clothing logo, really?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2006 14:38:27 GMT -5
As one who has: 1. experienced some of the worst times alone as a "worker" because of being very low on the social order among "workers;" and,
2. who could no longer accept "workers" were indeed "apostles" of the New Testament kind, (being unable to demonstrate even one of those signs that marked such in the NT); and,
3. who observed exactly such worker superiority as referenced here grow in many, if not all of us: and,
4. who then left that work believing it was simply their own fault for such observations and convictions and being bothered by them; the premise any has a parachute landing appears to me as only for those who spend some time "resting" or "caring for health before they leave." There may indeed have been a few who were not concerned with how LONG someone was a "worker," but rarely among "workers," as their hierarchy was(is?) most frequently determined by gender, time in the work and ability to assert themselves just as in any other "profession."
When I first became a worker, I was taken aside by an older worker and told that "the work" in "God's family" was accomplished in much the same way as the military. From experience I know that was indeed true. "Workers" as "apostles" and anointed by God Himself were like "officers" both amongst themselves and amongst the entire group of "enlisted."
That type of social status and hierarchy was the rule, rather than "the chiefest among believers" becoming the greatest by truly setting servant behavior as a true pattern for all. Now this is not to be said there was not an outward "show" of serving one another, there simply was, and most likely is to the present.
There were indeed many who "said, but did not." There were a few who appeared "toadies" to me, and indeed I probably was also forseeing "power" would fall to me in merely a matter of a few years, making my life much more "comfortable." THEN it became obvious to me that such was NOT what I wanted in my life and to dictate my choices in life.
So anyone who remains ignorant of such things would naturally deny them. I would have and probably did. Truth like light cannot be hidden forever.
Regards,
Dennis J
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Post by mrtindrucvionging on Aug 28, 2006 16:50:20 GMT -5
The workers and elders R the spiritual leaders of the 'truth'; and that'sworkers when it comes to decisions that need to be made. It's really give and take and mutual esteem, as it should be............... Yuper, we know KN KN KN. Mind my asking: what is 'yuper', what is "KN"?
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Post by sowht on Aug 28, 2006 17:32:44 GMT -5
withopeneyes - Would you put your whole face photo on here or someplace? With eyes like that, WOW!
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