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Post by fissure on Nov 14, 2007 1:20:54 GMT -5
I guess it's pretty common in dysfunctional families for one person in the family (usually a child) to be the focus of the family's dysfunction... someone who has obvious problems that everyone can focus on; drugs, alcohol, rebellious behavior, etc. So this person "causes all of the problems" and everyone else is fine.. if only that one family member would get back in line. Of course, everyone is not fine. In fact, the one with the obvious problems is usually the most fine, because their problems are at least working their way to the surface. In my family, it was my brother; sneaking out of the house when he was 12, ending up in prison, etc. And my poor parents... with the rebellious son. But the dysfunction really lies within the family unit and the parenting style. One child is generally the first to crack. But in the dysfunctional family, it's much easier to focus on the one rebellious child and ignore the problems within. To this day, if my mom is having a particularly bad time of it emotionally, either my brother or I will get a call involving all manner of criticism. So where does the problem lie in the situation that's been laid out before us? It's much easier to focus our anger and frustration on the one person who won't toe the line than to look within ourselves for the lies, personal deception and things that need to be addressed. If you, the reader, are a current 2x2er, you may not want to read this. This thread is aimed toward exes primarily. I am not looking for an argument; I am looking for advice. As parents grow older, is there anything we can, should, or should not do when the parents have never looked deeper into the problem and become problems themselves? Some parents do not acknowledge problems in the family but definitely realize certain children have issues. Sometimes the parents do not imagine the children's upbringing had anything to do with their issues. Some parents were difficult years ago, thinking they were raising their children properly within the 'truth' but continue to be difficult whether still 'professing' or not. Some characteristics of the parents may have been passed on from their own dysfunctional families but it may be likely that the cause of dysfunction is because of the 'truth'. When there are obvious problems and the parents are at the point in life that life could cease within a few years, what do children do? Should children let verbal and emotional abuse continue or . . . what? (I am not trying to be vague - it comes naturally.) Like Juliette implied, the children are not always the real problem. There may be underlying issues that have never been resolved. If communication ends up in argument, conversing about the issues is pointless.
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Post by juliette on Nov 14, 2007 1:46:17 GMT -5
I wonder if there are different phases to this. I'm probably still in the setting and enforcing boundaries phase. This means distance to keep me healthy. My parents aren't that fond of this. My brother is still in the "stay engaged and take what they have to dish out until you flip out and loose it" phase. I think maybe there's another phase where you can engage and keep your own self intact. One of my problems is thinking that I should and can fix everything. So I thought my parents and I needed some family therapy. But my therapist said (wisely, I think) that I'm not responsible for fixing everything. So now I'm okay with the way things are, and I'm grateful for my husband and kids and the family we've created.
I personally found it easier to set boundaries once I had kids of my own. Things that had been okay for me to deal with were not okay for my kids.
I have tried to talk to my mom lately a bit, but you're right.. it's hard to talk around the elephant in the room. The way my parents chose to raise us is inextricably entwined in the 2x2 system and their view of God. Since not much has changed on that front, it's hard to get anywhere. Whenever my mom and I have a conversation she lapses into "truth speak"... or phrases that are so loaded with vague meaning that you can't have a real conversation.
You ask some interesting questions, I'm interested in reading what others have to say.
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Post by aussiegal on Nov 14, 2007 1:51:30 GMT -5
One thing I've learnt... we can't change anyone else but ourselves. I've had to look very deeply into some of my families characteristics... unfortunately I have to overlook those things that my family does... First you need to acknowledge what the issue/problem is. Address the issue/s (unfortunately in my case it was met with denial from my parents). Come to the table with at least 1 positive solution. In my case, my mother has family that don't talk to her - I feel that yes it's because of the "truth". My mother has always been a hard-line truther. The judgemental, self-righteous attitude is evident to most people that meet her. Not intending on doing a personal attack here... but that's been my experience, and those that I know of in my circle of friends. I found myself being exactly that same way - and had to change that characteristic myself. I'm now very aware of when I start to feel judgemental and I try to change my attitude before it progresses. I'm not sure of the context that you say "should children let verbal and emotional abuse continue or... what?" But no you shouldn't let verbal and emotional abuse continue in any case. If you're now an adult - it's time for you to set boundaries yourself.
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Post by fissure on Nov 14, 2007 1:54:55 GMT -5
Yes, keeping distance is easy until they move into your backyard . . literally. I have already stated some boundaries but I doubt they last since my opinion is and always has been negated.
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Post by aussiegal on Nov 14, 2007 1:59:56 GMT -5
Yes, keeping distance is easy until they move into your backyard . . literally. I have already stated some boundaries but I doubt they last since my opinion is and always has been negated. maybe build a big fence? Sorry... couldn't resist that one! I actually had to live with my parents for approx 2 years after I stopped professing... married and with our young child! Another big thing has been to get mum to stop trying to indoctrinate my children now. I've tried to set the boundaries too... but she's ignored that and now said that it's a "given" that she WILL talk to my kids about her beliefs! Stick to your ground... boundaries need to be respected and if not... consequences need to be spelled out. (And then actioned if it continues)
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Post by juliette on Nov 14, 2007 2:00:54 GMT -5
Yes, keeping distance is easy until they move into your backyard . . literally. I have already stated some boundaries but I doubt they last since my opinion is and always has been negated. I can relate. I found the initial phase of setting boundaries to be very intense... imagine two grown 2-year olds who don't like to be told no. I had spent most of my adult life keeping more of a physical distance without telling them why and without setting specific limits. My mom would constantly want to know why we didn't spend more time with them. I finally said the obvious "why would I want to when all you do when I'm around you is criticize me?". Her answer was funny in retrospect... something about parents having the right to say things to their children. So maybe sometimes the only healthy thing to do is to not be around them for a while. When you say that they are literally in your backyard... what do you mean? Did they move in with you? Do you have kids?
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Post by fissure on Nov 14, 2007 2:14:20 GMT -5
They own the property but have never lived here. They intend to live nearby within daily driving distance. The pilot has just been lit so the flames have not yet reached the burner. But we expect ignition soon. No kids on this side of the fence.
The only way to 'not be around them for awhile' will be staying away from home. Moving is an option I suppose but, as everyone knows and learned as teenagers, it does not solve the ultimate problem.
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Post by decarg on Nov 14, 2007 8:55:47 GMT -5
Hi This is ecarg. The board won't let me have my name back :(So I had to tweek it a little bit. Just my thoughts on this issue. I've always held to the thought that our children come "through" us, not "to" us. That they are first and foremost "God's Children" and that we are entrusted to care for them but they are not really "ours" so to speak. With that said, I came "to" my parents ( I'm adopted ), but ultimately I'm a child of God's. SO........I have to do what I feel is right within my heart, mind, spirit and physical being. I had to physically remove myself from my 2x2 family to emotionally figure things out. ( worker sexual abuse being high on the list ) . I can't talk to my parents about most things IF I want a back and forth conversation. I've learned to tell them only what I want them to know, I've learned to not talk to them when I'm struggling with my own issues, and I've learned to say NO to the pot-luck/convention invitations. I was raised to not tell the truth, but to bury my head in the sand and only see what I choose to see. So when they ask WHY I don't come around sometimes, It's hard to be honest. And when I am.............they don't hear it anyway. But we must be honest NOT because it will change them, but because we need to HONOR ourselves. What they do with the information is their business. I have to remember that, even though I do not choose to function this way any longer, THEY STILL DO. I've learned to "love them where they are at". AFTER I WAS ANGRY FOR AWHILE. It's like going through the stages of grief. Because when you walk away from the 2x2 way, especially if you have grown up in it, it is like a death to the way your life was. You will experience the stages of grief. It's a daily struggle, but I try to look at my parents for who they are, remember who I am ( child of God ) and as Juliette said, SET UP MAJOR BOUNDARIES. They might have to be very big at first, but you can change them after you take care of yourself. You will not change your family. That is like going insane. INSANE means to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Trying to change people will drive you INSANE. I've learned to love my parents in a very different way. Change is very hard for some people. 2x2 ways are perfect for those that cannot take "change". "Same today, yesterday and forever"? Sound familiar? I believe in Education. When we know better we do better. This requires change. So, we will never see eye to eye. When it comes to my kiddos, I just make sure I'm around to watch a listen to how my parents treat them. And I counter their beliefs with my own. It makes for great discussions with my children and I know that one day, they too might set up healthy boundaries with me and decide to make decisions that I don't agree with. But again...............they came through me, not to me and I must allow them their own space to figure out life for themselves. ;DI've missed some good holiday food over the past years ( setting up boundaries ) but I've stayed slim ;D ;D ;D And I don't drink as much or do other self destructive behaviors. But the way I see it? As long as my parents are in the 2x2 way, I will always be expected to reach out and step into THEIR world, but they will never reach back and step into MY world. Because, you see, my world is of THE WORLD and I'm a sinner, going to hell. When you mix religious beliefs into how you treat your family, I will always take second place to meeting people. It's a fact of life. Maybe I should marry a 2x2 man..................then I could have a better relationship with my family again. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D TOTALLY KIDDING! That's a thread in itself!!!!! ;D
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Post by Brick on Nov 14, 2007 9:04:21 GMT -5
This is very interesting, but sad to think of setting boundaries between yourself and your families. But I'm also glad that you have found coping mechanisms that allow you to still have a functional relationship.
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Post by Sylvestra on Nov 14, 2007 21:51:03 GMT -5
I wonder if there are different phases to this. I'm probably still in the setting and enforcing boundaries phase. This means distance to keep me healthy. My parents aren't that fond of this. My brother is still in the "stay engaged and take what they have to dish out until you flip out and loose it" phase. I think maybe there's another phase where you can engage and keep your own self intact. One of my problems is thinking that I should and can fix everything. So I thought my parents and I needed some family therapy. But my therapist said (wisely, I think) that I'm not responsible for fixing everything. So now I'm okay with the way things are, and I'm grateful for my husband and kids and the family we've created. I personally found it easier to set boundaries once I had kids of my own. Things that had been okay for me to deal with were not okay for my kids. I have tried to talk to my mom lately a bit, but you're right.. it's hard to talk around the elephant in the room. The way my parents chose to raise us is inextricably entwined in the 2x2 system and their view of God. Since not much has changed on that front, it's hard to get anywhere. Whenever my mom and I have a conversation she lapses into "truth speak"... or phrases that are so loaded with vague meaning that you can't have a real conversation. You ask some interesting questions, I'm interested in reading what others have to say. Dear Juliette, My professing parents live with us, and when my mom goes into "truth speak" and the vagueness you mention, I tell her to explain in different words what she means by that in an effort to have a "real" conversation where words have real meanings. She gets mad when I do this and won't talk any more. To me this is very revealing, because if she explains what she means in different words, she sees how fraudulent much of what she says actually is! Very, very sad, I think, but necessary. I never allow either of my parents to use "truth speak" and act like I know what they're talking about. It is a language that I don't want to get sucked into again! Best! Edy
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Nov 15, 2007 2:37:08 GMT -5
I don't have any advice to offer but only wish to say this....whatever you do, do try to do SOMETHING to allow you to have some sort of functioning (and hopefully good!!) relationship with your parents. We all make mistakes and you may (or may not..people are different after all!) regret it one day if you don't. I assume you do want to--thus, the thread. I hope you continue to search out a way to have a relationship. Though I no longer attend meetings and haven't for many, many years (and my parents do) we are very close. While I very much stand on my own two feet (for also many years now!), I can't imagine not having a good relationship with my parents. I understand, for various circumstances, that just isn't possible for some people, and that fact makes me very sad for those people. Good luck with a solution that will allow you to have that relationship (at least some sort--it sounds as though your parents are difficult, so you may have to be the "bigger person," which can be wearing after a while!) and still keep your own self esteem intact. Michelle
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Post by Dont go away mad on Nov 15, 2007 11:14:25 GMT -5
It can be hard to have a conversation with our families (or anyone) about the state of our relationships. We take things personally, we get upset, we fall into old patterns from childhood, and we lose our temper sometimes.
Try to remember that as an adult you have tools at your disposal and one of them is the "adjournment" tool. It's okay to get upset and lose your composure. It's healthy to recognize when you need to take a break. So take one. But do come back in.
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