|
Post by fyi on Aug 21, 2006 18:32:34 GMT -5
When the things of the world can hardly satisfy the people of the world, how could it ever satisfy the people of God? - Our physical body is subjected to serve our spirit but so often it is our master. - We can build altars but we will recieve no blessing if we fail to sacrifice. - Instead of feeling burdened with having to sacrifice, consider your sacrifices as your greatest investments. - God doesn't grudgingly pour out blessings. He does it because he loves our choices. - Everything in the world will one day lead to dissapointment. This may make it difficult to extend trust to God but he knows who trusts in Him. - Our souls need to be clean before the Lord and the only cleansing agent is the blood of Christ. - Unwillingness, not weakness, hinders our walk. - It's hard to be encouraged by the journey so we need to keep focused on the goal. - Even the smallest hint of light affects vast darkness. - Rearrange s-i-l-e-n-t and you get l-i-s-t-e-n. They go hand in hand. - Peace making is a far greater sacrifice than peace keeping. - There's blessing from God in going the second mile. - Do we have the urge to be our brothers keeper? - Are we feeding on the things we've left behind or the things that God is providing for us? - There is no point in waiting to act once God as revealed his will. - We choose our friends. We can choose the world but it gives nothing back. - When we bear our burdens in unity with Jesus, our burden is light. - God responds to us saying, "I can't do it" with, "But can't WE do it?" - When the burden comes from the heart it is light. If it's a burden of the mind, it is heavy. - It's most effective to work on one project, one change in our life, at a time. - The Lord hears the cry of a lost sheep and will move heaven and earth to save him. - We want to change our cries from, "Why me?" to, "Help me!" - Jesus went into the garden to pray with two wills but left with only one. - Remember the cost. - We decieve ourselves when we are hearers but not doers of the word. - Conventions are likened unto mirrors. If we get a glimpse of our image and after leaving, forget what we look like, it was a waste of time. We need to remember what we look like to make a change. - Are we living in a way that can invite people to meetings solely on our life? - God will not answer our prayers when we aren't willing for the response. - Don't forget to pray for the harvest field.
|
|
|
Post by Brick on Aug 21, 2006 18:37:57 GMT -5
Thanks. Good job distilling all of these into bullet form.
|
|
|
Post by a believer on Aug 21, 2006 19:11:37 GMT -5
So much about our sacrifice and little about the sacrifce of Jesus included as gems...
What does remember the cost mean? To a Christian the cost is the price Jesus paid, in meetings it usually refers to us having to do something. That is the problem with taking something out of context like this.
Jesus went into the garden with 2 wills and came out with one? Where did the worker get this idea from? Jesus had one will and that was to do the will of the Father. It was like Jesus had his own will that he had to overcome, i.e. a sinful nature which he had to get rid of. How scriptural is that?
When the burden comes from the heart it is light. If it's a burden of the mind, it is heavy... where did he get this from? Doesn't make sense, but just a play with words...
God doesn't answer prayers if we are not willing for the response...-- now that gets me.... so if we don't get an answer to prayer it is because we aren't willing for the response... someone prays that God will heal them from cancer but God does not heal her because they aren't willing...the worker needs a lesson in compassion?? blessings fall on the just and unjust,,, God answerrs prayers to plenty who are not willing... God can change anyones heart ....
again words that tickle the ears but no substance..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2006 19:32:22 GMT -5
To "a believer" (sic) Search your bible, you will find references to everything bulleted above.
|
|
|
Post by RobO unlogged on Aug 21, 2006 20:11:32 GMT -5
Interesting bit about sacrifice.....I did a study on it while still a 2x2 and discovered that sacrifice in the biblical meaning is totally different to the version of 'sacrifice' espoused by 2x2ism.
Sacrifice in the NT includes such things as prayer and praise to God, the singing of hymns/psalms/music to God, the offering of material wealth to those in need, etc. It never meant "doing without" or "self-imposed hardships" or "giving up the things of the world". This is a distortion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2006 20:44:29 GMT -5
Hi Rob, long time no read. I can't figure out how mere singing, prayer and praise can be seen as "Sacrifice." Sacrifice means just that - sacrifice. This involves the giving of your time, the surrender of your will, forgoing your own ideas, accepting rejection from others who don't love God, putting others first and generally not engaging in things which have no relevance beyond the grave.
|
|
|
Post by scripture on Aug 21, 2006 21:05:07 GMT -5
Hebrews 13 15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. 16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2006 21:09:57 GMT -5
And what is "sacrifice of praise"? Praise is praise (even false praise.) Sacrifice of praise is praising God by sacrifice.
|
|
|
Post by RobO unlogged on Aug 21, 2006 22:18:01 GMT -5
Bert,
You can't see because you're operating under a non-biblical definition of "sacrifice".
Go look up every instance of "sacrifice" in the NT that doesn't refer to what Jesus did. You'll soon learn that it has nothing to do with the things you've mentioned. You're doing what's called anachronism - reading a modern idea back into the scripture instead of reading scripture for what it actually says.
Sacrifice means "offering".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2006 22:22:00 GMT -5
Hey RobO - where have you been?
|
|
|
Post by a believer on Aug 21, 2006 23:37:44 GMT -5
Bert, tell me where it says in the Bible that Jesus went into the garden with 2 wills and came out with 1?
Tell me where it says that if a burden comes from the heart it is light if its a burden from our mind it is heavy?
Tell me where it says God will not answer our prayers if we are not willing for the response.
Why do you choose to put sic after "a believer." Are you stating that you don't consider me a believer?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2006 0:10:00 GMT -5
To "a believer"
Jesus went into the garden with 2 wills and came out with 1 Havent heard it put that way before. Do you believe that Jesus had the final triumph over his own human will at that point?
a burden comes from the heart it is light if its a burden from our mind it is heavy? Can you believe it when Jesus said for us to take his yoke upon us, for his burden is light? We have a hymn which says "strength joy and willingness comes with the sight." Did Jesus present burden, or did he present joy?
God will not answer our prayers if we are not willing for the response This is a common theme throughout the entire bible. Don't you believe this?
Are you stating that you don't consider me a believer? You don't believe in these things?
|
|
|
Post by a believer on Aug 22, 2006 2:22:42 GMT -5
So you agree that you are unable to show me where these things are in the Bible.
I am a believer in Jesus, not the workers words.
Seems like you only see a person as a believer if they believe in the workers words over the Bible. The Bible is the inspired words of God not the workers.
Again, you have been unable to remotely show me where these gems are in the Bible. The final triumph of Jesus was not over his own will. He didn't go to the Cross to triumph over his will he went to the Cross for you and me. He was already perfect and spotless. Jesus makes our burden light, and that is nothing to do with what the worker wrote in which they said, a burden from the heart is light,.,,,,,, again you are twisting scripture to try and fit into the workers teaching.
A common theme throughout the Bible is that God answers prayer, and his answers are not based on whether we are willing or not. Many people were unwilling and God saved them.... God wills is not ours. You are saying if we pray for a car then God will answer that if we are willing.... no I don't agree with that. But someone else God does not heal because they were not willing.
I am a believer because I believe in the sacrifice of Jesus not because I believe in the words of the workers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2006 6:27:57 GMT -5
Rob - one point: burden from the heart is light,.,,,,,, again you are twisting scripture to try and fit into the workers teaching.
Actually, most of the things in that list are not direct quotes from the scripture, but observations/reflections/summaries of it as seen from the experience of the speaker.
If someone says "God is love" I wouldn't be sure there is such a quote in the bible. I understand that is the preacher's word and I recognise it as a theme of the bible.
Now, if someone claims such and such a text was taken straight from the bible - that would be different.
The first quote, for instance, that our bodies want to be master and not the servant, is one of the major themes of the bible - beginning with Adam. I may not find a verse with these exact words.
We believed in what Paul said to the Colossians, that He triumphed over the world, and to the Phillipians that He found himself as man he humbled himself and became obedient unto death.
I have never heard of anyone in my faith praying for a car. If some have then they don't understand what prayer is for.
And many of these sayings are not just "worker's words" but life's reflections. For instance, the "burden from the heart is light" is found often in our culture. I recall the Holley's sang a famous song "He aint heavy, he's my brother" to emphasise that very point.
|
|
|
Post by scripture on Aug 22, 2006 7:08:12 GMT -5
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
|
|
|
Post by scripture on Aug 22, 2006 7:10:52 GMT -5
Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
|
|
|
Post by jxr on Aug 22, 2006 7:24:50 GMT -5
God will not answer our prayers if we are not willing for the responseThis is a common theme throughout the entire bible. Don't you believe this? This is patently not true. In Mark 10:16-18, didn't Jesus provide an answer that was rejected?
|
|
|
Post by jxr on Aug 22, 2006 7:29:36 GMT -5
Hi Rob, long time no read. I can't figure out how mere singing, prayer and praise can be seen as "Sacrifice." Sacrifice means just that - sacrifice. This involves the giving of your time, the surrender of your will, forgoing your own ideas, accepting rejection from others who don't love God, putting others first and generally not engaging in things which have no relevance beyond the grave. Bert, Are you blind? Can you not see that singing and offering praise to God is sacrifice? By singing praises and entering into prayer, you are deferring your own interests over that of God's. Is singing and prayer not good enough for you. Do you have to feel pain and loss for anything to be sacrifice? If you think that, then your service is worthless.
|
|
|
Post by ringaround on Aug 22, 2006 10:00:31 GMT -5
Bert, This issue has been addressed with you before on another thread. It is unwise to trust someone's word-just because they say so. I want to be able to see the scripture validate the words, thoughts-these gems . Over the years listening to the workers speak we realize that they prooftext. They take a scripture, take it out of context and twist it to mean what they want it to mean. That does not present the scripture in the truest sense.
These little gems are worthless unless they are backed up with verses. Your comment, "This is a common theme throughout the entire bible" lends no substance to the actual scripture.
Verses, cite the verses.
The Bible isn't built on themes. It is broken into books and verses. We need the verses that back the words.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2006 10:39:41 GMT -5
Bert said
"Now, if someone claims such and such a text was taken straight from the bible - that would be different."
How would it be different? As in your understanding and response to it, or?
Karl
|
|
|
Post by GuestS on Aug 22, 2006 11:17:49 GMT -5
"Conventions are likened unto mirrors. If we get a glimpse of our image and after leaving, forget what we look like, it was a waste of time. We need to remember what we look like to make a change."
Yes, please take a good LOOOOOOOOOOOONG look at how foolish you look in your bun and skirt. This whole life-style is a WASTE of time... not just convention!
|
|
|
Post by sjg on Aug 22, 2006 11:28:58 GMT -5
Mic 6:8 ........ and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
The convention "gems" are man's thoughts....not God's. Why do the workers spend so much time trying to come up with something cute and clever for the "friends" to jot down in their notes rather than TEACHING from God's holy Word?
|
|
|
Post by scripture on Aug 22, 2006 14:39:44 GMT -5
2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 7:29:26 GMT -5
To Rob and Karl. Wonder if you would be prepared to put your own church sermons on line here? I have never heard a sermon containing pure biblical verse unless someone was doing a direct reading.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2006 7:40:13 GMT -5
I would, but they are not transcribed. I can send you some audio though... I do comment and explain- but only within the text, usually an entire unit of thought, never- rarely on a single verse, or a few verses out of context. Here's a sermon that is online, about 40 min. media.putfile.com/Romans-12-14-13-14-june11-06Karl
|
|
|
Post by hrl on Aug 23, 2006 13:17:04 GMT -5
"Conventions are likened unto mirrors. If we get a glimpse of our image and after leaving, forget what we look like, it was a waste of time. We need to remember what we look like to make a change." Yes, please take a good LOOOOOOOOOOOONG look at how foolish you look in your bun and skirt. This whole life-style is a WASTE of time... not just convention! Whoa......pretty harsh words there..........and whole WASTE of time? Hmm> Are you saying that no one in a bun and/or skirt has any love, joy, or peace? Beside, buns and skirt can look very classy and stylish. Hmm..>>It's not nice to criticize people based upon outward appearances...Sure, some of the buns look silly, those types might look better with their hair down and styled pretty with curls and stuff. There are many young girls in the truth who are nothing short of beautiful and not afraid to let it show!
What are women supposed to look like?
|
|
|
Post by amazed on Aug 23, 2006 13:27:41 GMT -5
lacpastor I am listening to your sermon as I write. What is your story? What is your church? How long have you been a pastor? Where you in the F&W? How long? How long ago? Sorry. I'm just really curious. Amazed
|
|
|
Post by a believer on Aug 23, 2006 15:19:41 GMT -5
Bert, no one speaks 100% in Bible text unless they are reading the Bible, but what they preach lines up with the Bible. Some of what the workers preached in gems above did not line up with the Bible, that was my point.
LIke Jesus went into the garden with 2 wills and came out wiht one.
That God does not answers prayer if we are not willing.
etc
|
|