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Post by selah on Oct 7, 2007 12:31:55 GMT -5
Matt. 17:19-21 19Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, "Why couldn't we drive it out?"
20He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
These verses used to trouble me because it seemed that on the one hand, Jesus said their faith was too small, yet on the other hand, He says that faith as small as a mustard seed could move mountains.
Last night as I read these verses again something occurred to me. Maybe Jesus was saying, "Because you know that your faith is small, you think you are limited in what can be accomplished, but I tell you, even your small faith can accomplish great things."
What are your thoughts?
Blessings, Linda
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Post by a friend in christ on Oct 7, 2007 12:51:31 GMT -5
That statement "oh ye of little faith" brings back the turning point of my leaving the fellowship. I thought all was well until I had an unannounced visit from the head worker and he made this statement. I always thought the statement referred to the fact that we needed to be more childlike in the eyes of the Lord and be as young children always willing to accept the things we were told as the truth and to never question. When the statement was directed toward my faith, or lack of it, I really began to question the staff and pay attention to the hierarchy of the faith. IMO the workers should worship us, not the other way around. Good grief, if it were not for the followers how would they ever survive? Oh ye of little faith is used way to often by the workers and it would be something if they truly understood what they spoke about. I may of had "little faith" while in the fellowship, but now I am bubbling over with faith and without the guidance of the workers.
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shushy
Royal Member
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Post by shushy on Oct 7, 2007 13:11:12 GMT -5
I think Jesus is trying to encourage and show that it doesnt take a lot of faith. However when it comes to extending our faith it can be difficult. For me its always in the area of finance I find myself praying/believing/struggling/but If I pray and "believing all stand on the prayer" and not allow doubt to come I get 'break throughs'. Right now Im believing for more money to feed more people with my giving. I call it extending my tent boarders. Being stretched. It isnt unpainful either. But thats ok.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2007 14:03:44 GMT -5
In my view "faith" is about "trust." All too often in the F&W's fellowship "faith" was a "maybe" thing, often linked to our own efforts, rather than a "positive trust in Him!" Either we will be given grace to climb the mountains in life, or they will be moved out of our road as we move forward in Him with a positive trust in his ability to see us through.
I have a feeling the Disciples at that time lacked that positive trust. There were times they were so taken up with their own greatness that perhaps they were relying on their own abilities to cast out the demons rather than doing so through a positive trust in God.
F.A.I.T.H. = For All I Trust Him !
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Oct 7, 2007 15:11:44 GMT -5
Perhaps they (Disciples) were taken up by their own greatness, as ram has pointed out. They had the power to cast out devils before and now couldn't understand why they couldn't. It appears that they took this power for granted and thought it was a power that had somehow become "theirs" to have and to hold! They failed to realize that all powers come from God and only when HE deemed it necessary on an as-needed basis.
Perhaps their trust/faith did not lie completely with God, but in themselves. Therefore they were unable to perform the miracle.
I think the main point for me out of this is that we mustn't worry about what we can or cannot do, but instead trust in Him that He will provide and/or perform miracles if it is HIS will. We needn't worry how the details of how a thing will come about or how God will provide, but rather just have the faith to believe that He will, in His own time, if it it His will.
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Post by freedom on Oct 7, 2007 23:09:35 GMT -5
I suspect he is talking about the same principal that is found in "The Secret". They had lost the actual thing. But to have even a tiny grain of the real thing (faith, or belief), is where we get unbelievable power. This can (symbolically) remove mountains in our lives. Just my opinion here.
Freedom
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2007 6:38:07 GMT -5
It is good to remember that "faith" and "belief" are one and the same word in biblical Greek. Always. Another form of the word, a verb rather than a noun is translated "believe."
Now who actually has enough belief to believe they could say to a mountain, "be moved" and it would be moved, even cast into the sea? The lesson I am convinced that the Lord was teaching was that NONE, bar NONE have even as much belief as a mustard seed in comparison to what the Lord believed.
Nonetheless, can anyone remember where a mountain before some was "moved" by belief in the OT? They had faced a mountain long enough and belief in God's word and direction caused them to turn away, northward: in effect, moving a mountain for them by belief.
Some believe God, and in God more than others, then we wonder why they seem to posses something special. I know I don't have the belief in God which would literally "move" a mountain into the sea. Does anyone posting here? I thought not.
Working tonight to live with pain, lest I too become addicted to pain medications for which many have been and are faulted. Pain would constantly keep me from sleeping, and now have finally had to accept forms of oxycontin/oxycode to get rest. When pain IS so severe due to truly dying or diseased nerves, it is easy for me to understand involuntary addiction to certain drugs.
"Belief." I admit to not having enough "belief" to block intense pain that literally forces one to cry out, waking them from sleep and keeping sleep at bay. Thankfully that pain is not yet totally constant for me, even though periods last into hours. I've been with some who are kept drugged continually to keep them from wailing/screaming in pain.
During those long dark hours on the cross, The Lord who had enough belief to end such pain for himself, chose NOT to use it for that reason. Rather, He focused His attention upon the needs of others, loving them to the end, despite what they did to Him. AND He chose not to even use the pain medication of that day which might have eased His conscious suffering. Yet, He had "belief" greater than that small seed.
Think of those long dark hours HE spent in agony, the man alone and not with that part of the Godhead which had been with Him in life. Not only was there the agony from the cross and His scourging, but from the sins of all mankind for whom He was dying to redeem. Hard enough sometimes to bear our own sins much less those of someone else, yes? The "cross" to those who perish (do not believe?,) foolishness: but the power of God to those who are saved (do believe?) Was what the Lord brought and Paul preached "exclusive?" Surely to those who perish in unbelief or are saved by the power of God!
Sincerely,
Dennis J
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chris
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Post by chris on Oct 9, 2007 7:23:38 GMT -5
Dennis,
Thank you so much for posting your thoughts. I really appreciated them.
I'm so sorry for your sufferings but glad to know you have come to the realization that at a certain point pain meds are necessary. I have been down this road with my husband as he has gone through a few surgeries over the years.
Praying that you continue to have good days.
Chris
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