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Post by Asking on Oct 7, 2007 11:39:18 GMT -5
In 2007, do the workers still give "worker talks" to young people who date or marry outsiders? Can a professing young person "take part" if they are in love with someone who isn't "professing?" There are so few professing youth in some fields in Eastern North America. Eric Hahn has been warning young people against "yoked with unbelievers" in convention sermons.
Workers shouldn't try to hijack a love affair just because one member isn't professing. I know some happy homes where one member professes and the other member doesn't profess.
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Post by oh my on Oct 7, 2007 13:03:07 GMT -5
I am from the east coast and have someone in my life that does not profess. I have been toying with the thought of telling the workers about this man, but do not want to be reprimanded. I know how they feel about the yoking, I hear it constantly from my family. I don't not want to leave the fellowship either. At one point I would have quit seeing this man, but now have fallen in love. I should be brave and do what is right by talking to the workers but can not bring myself to do it. I have been informed that privileges have been taken away from young professing folk who have done this, and know of 2 cases where they just stopped attending meeting. How have we gotten to this point of allowing the workers to rule our lives?
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Post by well on Oct 7, 2007 13:58:56 GMT -5
I should be brave and do what is right by talking to the workers but can not bring myself to do it. How have we gotten to this point of allowing the workers to rule our lives? Why would you have to tell them? Focus on your relationship with this man. Make sure he respects your decision to continue in this religion, or any other that you choose in the future if that happens. Also make sure you respect his choices whether he joins or not. As per your last question: yes, how can you allow it?
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Post by ScholarGal on Oct 7, 2007 14:42:25 GMT -5
If you are professing, and fall in love with someone who is not professing, you must ask yourself a few questions.
Do you believe your current fellowship is the only way to heaven?
Does your significant other believe in God? In Jesus? Attending church regularly? Have you attended your significant other's worship service?
Money is another major issue for couples. How much do you give to charity and the workers? How much does he give to charity and his church? Will you be able to agree on these matters? Do you agree on other types of charitable giving and volunteer work?
My definition of unequally yoked is being married to someone you think is destined for lost eternity because of beliefs or actions.
As a professing woman, I was astounded at the reaction when I announced that I was engaged to a non-professing man. Some people were horrified, they looked like I had just told them I would die of cancer next week. Some people treated me normally. Some people were ecstatic and wanted to throw parties because they thought I had found a good man.
Unfortunately, the most vivid memories of my engagement will always be the devastated looks I got from the people who thought I was making a terrible mistake. It hurts even though I know my Christian non-professing husband won't leading me straight to hell!
The workers in my field were kind, not judgmental. They asked a few questions: Will he allow you to go to meetings? (Yes.) Will he welcome the workers in your home? (Absolutely yes.)
Your relationship with God is more important than your relationship with your significant other or the workers. Remember that, and consider the situation in prayer.
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Post by las logged out on Oct 7, 2007 15:18:52 GMT -5
In 2007, do the workers still give "worker talks" to young people who date or marry outsiders? Can a professing young person "take part" if they are in love with someone who isn't "professing?" There are so few professing youth in some fields in Eastern North America. Eric Hahn has been warning young people against "yoked with unbelievers" in convention sermons. Workers shouldn't try to hijack a love affair just because one member isn't professing. I know some happy homes where one member professes and the other member doesn't profess. The geace of God no 2x2 could bar
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Oct 7, 2007 15:49:41 GMT -5
All I know is that if I was in love, in the 2x2 fellowship and wanted to get married...no one would be telling me who I could or could not marry. That's a very personal life decision and not meant to be made by anyone but the two individuals in question. Simple as that, to me. M.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Oct 7, 2007 16:26:37 GMT -5
As Scholargirl mentioned, our relationship with God is most important. Therefore, it is of prime importance that you pray about your relationship with this man and ask God if this union is HIS will. Ask God for a sign - He will show and direct you if you ask Him from the perspective of what is best for His Kingdom and His purpose for your life.
If after you have brought your relationship before God and if he gives you peace and reassurance that it is right, then that is all that matters. It doesn't matter whether the workers approve or disapprove. It is between you and God. On the other hand, if he disproves of your union, you must be willing to walk away from it.
Scholargal brought up another good point - "Does your significant other believe in God/Jesus?" According to scripture we are only unequally yoked if the other is an unbeliever.
IMO it is important that both of you love God and therefore it behooves you to observe your partner's love for God. Why? Because in time the way he loves and serves God will be reflected in the way he loves and serves you.
Marriage should be full of the love of Christ, with Christ at the center. Without that I don't think there can be true happiness and joy. "Can two walk together, except they be agreed." Amos 3:3
We can fool ourselves into thinking we can make a difference (if our partner is not on the same spiritual journey as we are) but this will only lead to resentment and discourse between you. Marriage is hard enough without having to deal with that as well!
Now is the time to make the right choice. Don't be a fool like I was when I left God out of my choosing (I thought love and passion were enough!).
I think the most beautiful thing to God must be when two people join together with the same passion for Christ, who can grow together and share together in all His goodness.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Oct 7, 2007 17:50:42 GMT -5
How would you really KNOW if God disapproved of it, Wings? M.
(I appreciate your posts, so I'm not trying to make light of anything you wrote...I thought it was an excellent post, actually. Just curious....I don't seem to know, honestly, how God would feel about my relationships....)
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Post by well on Oct 7, 2007 18:06:09 GMT -5
All I know is that if I was in love, in the 2x2 fellowship and wanted to get married...no one would be telling me who I could or could not marry. That's a very personal life decision and not meant to be made by anyone but the two individuals in question. Simple as that, to me. M. WTBWG, You've said it better than I did. I tried anyway..
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Oct 7, 2007 18:12:42 GMT -5
Heh, ty. Just to make it clear, I believe in God, and don't "worker worship," BUT at that very same time, I do have high regard for the workers and what they do, how they live, what they stand for. As any intelligent person knows, some bad apples don't represent the entire group. I only mean that in marriage....it's wayyy too personal of a thing to have someone telling me who I should or should not marry> That includes workers, my parents, (who I have all the love and respect in the world for), my friends (who have been there for me through a lot and I also hold in high regard) and anyone else. It's going to be the two of you in the relationship....not the rest...so why should they have a say?? M.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Oct 7, 2007 18:44:27 GMT -5
How would you really KNOW if God disapproved of it, Wings? M. (I appreciate your posts, so I'm not trying to make light of anything you wrote...I thought it was an excellent post, actually. Just curious....I don't seem to know, honestly, how God would feel about my relationships....)
Excellent question Mich! There are a few things I consider when questioning whether it's God speaking to me or not. First, its how I am praying. Am I taking time to listen for Him? Am I asking him in sincerity and honesty and without doubt? If I have the right spirit in prayer, we will hear Him speaking to us.
Do you remember the first time God spoke to you? Do you remember what it felt like? We just knew without a shadow of a doubt that it was God putting something on our hearts. I dont really know how we know but we just do!
When I am praying about something BIG, I do ask God for a sign so that I will know it is His will. When God told Gideon that he was to lead Israel into battle against their enemies, Gideon put a fleece out on the ground in order to receive a sign that God was really speaking to him. We too can ask God for a sign but it must be with a humble attitude and not a spirit of testing Him. If we pray for God to reveal His will and carefully watch the circumstances that relate to that decision.
I went through an experience where I was in bitter turmoil and didn't know what to do (not my decision to leave meetings, but another one!). Everyone was telling me something different and I wanted to make sure that what I decided to do was God's will. I prayed and prayed and searched the scriptures, and I asked God to show me whether what I felt was the right thing to do was His will or not. I asked him to either close the door or open it, that something would happen that would show me without a doubt whether what i was about to do was His will or not.
I waited for 3 months and just when I was starting to feel differently about the situation something catastrophic happened and it was like "oh my goodness, that's God speaking to me!" The next day a door was opened and when I went through it, I had the most incredible sense of peace I had ever felt before. I just knew I had done what God had desired of me and he has reaffirmed that many times since.
If we're still not sure, we should go to His Word and see if what is on our hearts aligns with His will. There will be no discord between what He tells us and what we read in the scriptures.
It's a hard one to explain Mich and very subjective I think.
Anyone else want to add how they know God is the one speaking to them?Mich, I think your question deserves a new thread so I started one.
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Post by betty on Oct 7, 2007 18:46:49 GMT -5
As far as I understand most churches are opposed to missionary dating , with non-Christians
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lizzy
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Post by lizzy on Oct 7, 2007 21:39:49 GMT -5
The bible tells us not to be unequally yoked. I married for love over 30 years ago and have never regretted it, but I am unequally yoked. My mate goes to meeting with me out of respect for what I believe. We went to the workers before marrying. While they didn't give us their blessing, they agreed he had a lot more to him than many "professing" men
I never prayed about this, but let my heart lead me. I would marry the same person again because I love and respect him, but there is no spiritual oneness.
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Post by CherieKropp on Oct 7, 2007 21:54:53 GMT -5
RE: A warning regarding knowing the direction God wants you to take
If you put out the fleece, so to speak, I recommend not speaking out loud what it is you want/need from God. Pray about it internally. Do not discuss the "test" to know God's will out loud with anyone.
This is why I say that. The devil can't read your thoughts, but he can hear your words. So don't let him know anything that he could use against you, or use to trick you into making a wrong decision. Satan could arrange for doors to open etc., if he knows what you're expecting or looking for God to show you. So mums the word.
I messed up once and told a worker about the fleece I had put out - and totally took a wrong turn (a 2 year detour) as a result.
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Post by Scott Ross on Oct 7, 2007 21:59:00 GMT -5
By 'fleece' I assume you are speaking of what Gideon did as a test? I just read that today about him. Scott
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Oct 7, 2007 23:56:00 GMT -5
lizzy....I have a hard time understanding why the workers would not give you their blessing. For one, if he had "a lot more" than some professing, wasn't that a testament to his spirit?? and also....isn't the point to draw people in, not to shun people? I kind of understand...but on the other hand..no. M. whatever the case, I'm glad you made the right decision for you...and after 30 years, it quite obviously was the RIGHT one.
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do not live in fear
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Post by do not live in fear on Oct 8, 2007 6:01:38 GMT -5
I am from the east coast and have someone in my life that does not profess. I have been toying with the thought of telling the workers about this man, but do not want to be reprimanded. I know how they feel about the yoking, I hear it constantly from my family. I don't not want to leave the fellowship either. At one point I would have quit seeing this man, but now have fallen in love. I should be brave and do what is right by talking to the workers but can not bring myself to do it. I have been informed that privileges have been taken away from young professing folk who have done this, and know of 2 cases where they just stopped attending meeting. How have we gotten to this point of allowing the workers to rule our lives? When we get in front of our Heavenly Father we will not have a worker beside us. There will be none of the friends there to throw in a word or two. There will be no one but us. There is nothing scriptural that indicates we should be asking "men" about our lives for direction. We are instructed to go to God with it. Jesus died for you so that you can do this without anyone else involved. There was a reason for that. It is not anyone else's business but your own. You need to pray and get your direction from God. I am not sure why you fear what will happen if you don't go to the workers. You ask "why are we allowing the workers to rule our lives." This is an individual choice that you have made concerning your family and the workers. You can either give them the power or not. They can not control you if you do not allow it. It is harder than it sounds for some, I know, but we are instructed that God be in control of our lives--NOT MEN. God already knows about this man of yours. I also think right now you should be thinking about the fact of being involved in a fellowship that uses fear to control and are so quick to judge a situation just because the person is not a part of the fellowship. Do you agree with this and believe this is what Jesus taught? I think you are seeing some things here. This may be a start of a special path that God has planned for you. Remember you are a shining example of the Holy Spirit or as my mom has always told me "Remember who you belong to." You represent God first--not a group or a fellowship. Just so you know I am one half of a professing/non professing couple. If you love someone and both are very honest about the expectations of the other concerning your needs and wants for the relationship then you should be fine. Just make sure you make it clear about your fellowship and what that may or may not involve for you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2007 6:26:34 GMT -5
I can well understand "oh my's" fears. The F&W's fellowship instills a culture of doing what is acceptable to the workers in particular and to the fellowship as a whole. This mindset is more deep-rooted in some than it is in others. For some, it can border on the paranoid and really screw them up.
Sometimes just standing up for what you believe and want can part the waves. Other times it seems like it backfires. Best to be yourself "oh my" and take things to God. Be reasonable with yourself. You are just as important as any worker. Think things through with a clear and reasonable mind and ask yourself if the expectations of others are "reasonable." God has given you a mind to reason things out with, not blank your own reasoning out. He expects a reasonable service and those around you should be reasonable, able to reason with, expecially family, friends and workers. Beware of the cultic belief of "fitting in," i.e. doing things to be acceptable to others and what "they" want.
Demand a reasonable approach and response from those who would question you. If you don't get that then they are being "unreasonable" and not worth taking on board.
Your life is yours. You will have to live with your own mistakes (some of which may be missed Joy), not workers or the friends.
Hey, I'm sounding like an old granny now ! I just wish I had had an old granny who sounded like this. I might not have fallen into the pit so often ?
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3
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Post by 3 on Oct 9, 2007 8:54:01 GMT -5
Lizzy wrote: 'I would marry the same person again because I love and respect him, but there is no spiritual oneness. "
In OUR experience, it wasn't until my husband and I (both fervent 2x2er's) left the 2x2 way that we began having spiritual discussions. And we had a Sunday a.m. meeting in our home!
Looking back, we thought we were having spiritual discussions when, in reality, the discussions entailed upholding the do's and the dont's of the way, chatting about the workers, convention, meetings or attempting to understand some obscure verse in as it pertained to a Wed nite meeting. We did not share our thoughts about God's love, Jesus' sacrifice, etc. etc. with each other.
Our spiritual openess came AFTER we left the fellowship.
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Post by caith on Oct 10, 2007 4:09:39 GMT -5
I am from the east coast and have someone in my life that does not profess. I have been toying with the thought of telling the workers about this man, but do not want to be reprimanded. I know how they feel about the yoking, I hear it constantly from my family. I don't not want to leave the fellowship either. At one point I would have quit seeing this man, but now have fallen in love. I should be brave and do what is right by talking to the workers but can not bring myself to do it. I have been informed that privileges have been taken away from young professing folk who have done this, and know of 2 cases where they just stopped attending meeting. How have we gotten to this point of allowing the workers to rule our lives? From my experience - if you want to remain an 'innie' - it would be better to tell the workers before you get married. I never got past the "should be brave and do what is right by talking to the workers" stumbling block - and of course in the meantime the (quiet) marriage took place. Afterwards, during my Come Here And Talk To Us meeting, the only question I was asked about my new husband was "has he been married before?". Looking back I sometimes wonder just who did tell them. Wasn't me, as they never visited me in the 6 years or so I lived (alone) in that city and went to the various meetings. In fact, they seemed so unaware I existed that it must have been someone from my Sunday morning meeting who passed on the scandalous news ... c
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Oct 10, 2007 15:08:22 GMT -5
Lizzy wrote: 'I would marry the same person again because I love and respect him, but there is no spiritual oneness. "
There is nothing wrong with natural love and it can last a lifetime! However, imo if we have a choice whether to marry someone for love or for love AND spiritual oneness, then the latter would be preferable. Natural love can only take us so far. Spiritual love/oneness on the other hand can bring our natural love to a whole new level!
I often think of natural marriage being a picture of our relationship with the bridegroom (God). He desires us to be "one" with him.
"He who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit. " 1Cor.6:17
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Oct 10, 2007 15:22:58 GMT -5
I think if a man cant 'love and cherish his wife' as Christ did he shouldnt be a husband ever. .
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