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Post by wondering on Sept 28, 2007 9:50:41 GMT -5
Is anxiety and depression more prevailant among those professing & those in similar sects?
Or do those in the Truth ignore signs of depression so they won't look bad in front of the workers for seeking help from worldly counselors?
Does the work based doctrine increase a feeling of lonliness and insecurity plus the inability to forge close friendships among the unprofessing folks. Something to think about...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2007 9:54:48 GMT -5
quote - "Is anxiety and depression more (sic) prevailant among those professing & those in similar sects? No, in fact it is considerably less.
quote - "Or do those in the Truth ignore signs of depression so they won't look bad in front of the workers for seeking help from worldly counselors?" No
quote - "Does the work based doctrine increase a feeling of lonliness and insecurity plus the inability to forge close friendships among the unprofessing folks. Something to think about... I think what you wrote is stupid.
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Post by jh62 on Sept 28, 2007 9:59:06 GMT -5
Maybe you could scan in your research on this Bert, and post it on your website? Or even here on the message board? How many test subjects did you have? What kind of variables were there? I'm anxious to see the results of your research and testing.
Seriously though, I believe depression, anxiety, etc. are probably common among all very strict religions. I have noticed among those 2x2's who are close to me, an anxiousness to move from this life to the next which disturbs me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2007 10:24:30 GMT -5
quote - "Maybe you could scan in your research on this Bert, and post it on your website? Or even here on the message board? How many test subjects did you have? What kind of variables were there? I'm anxious to see the results of your research and testing." From the top of my head. Mental problems occur in about 52% of Americans, as opposed to about 25% for recent immigrants. The reason is that immigrants still have strong family, social and religious bonds - but these quickly break down. We too have strong bonds. And we don't have the same extent of drug, alcohol and divorce problems.quote - "Seriously though, I believe depression, anxiety, etc. are probably common among all very strict religions." You may be right. But I always thought it was secular people who had the problems.quote - "I have noticed among those 2x2's who are close to me, an anxiousness to move from this life to the next which disturbs me." ;D I don't want to die!
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Post by jh62 on Sept 28, 2007 10:28:36 GMT -5
Thank goodness you don't want to die Bert! I don't think depression is exclusive to secular or religious people, however you do have to take into account the pressures that are put on those in extreme or very strict religions. Out of curiousity, how do you KNOW that those in the 2x2's don't have the same extent of drug, alcohol and divorce problems that those in other religions have? If you figured it up per capita, you may be surprised!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2007 10:37:40 GMT -5
I think that if we had a 52% mental health issue, testified by drug or alcohol addiction, or marital breakdown, it would look fairly obvious.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 28, 2007 10:38:24 GMT -5
Sorry Bert... not sure where you got your research from but the facts are: An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older (about one in four adults) suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year. When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people.
Added: Have you considered that the immigrant statistics may be attributed to the fact that many don't have health insurance, and therefore have never seen a Dr. let alone a psychiatrist?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2007 10:45:01 GMT -5
Hey! No checking up on the internet! I read these figures about ten years (pre-net) in a Time magazine. They stuck in my mind because the headline stated that "most Americans" had mental problems! I used to quote them verbatim!
ps I love your avatar!
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 28, 2007 10:45:44 GMT -5
I think that if we had a 52% mental health issue, testified by drug or alcohol addiction, or marital breakdown, it would look fairly obvious. Divorce is not a mental health illness Bert. It may be a contributing factor but it is not a diagnosis!!! Addictions are included in the statistics I relayed in previous post.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2007 10:50:56 GMT -5
Sure, divorce is not a mental issue. But it often leads to such. I don't think the article I quoted used divorce statistics in such a direct way.
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Post by jh62 on Sept 28, 2007 10:59:29 GMT -5
There's only one problem with comparing those with mental problems who belong to the 2x2's to other religions, Bert. There haven't been any studies done on 2x2's! Also, if you think you can tell who suffers from depression or mental problems merely from appearances (whether or not they appear to be happy), you might be way off base!
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 28, 2007 11:06:49 GMT -5
Hey! No checking up on the internet! I read these figures about ten years (pre-net) in a Time magazine. They stuck in my mind because the headline stated that "most Americans" had mental problems! I used to quote them verbatim! ps I love your avatar! I have so many mental health stats here Bert I could post all day.... :-) You have to look at the facts before you can assume a correlation.
Let's say that recent immigrants do have health insurance and therefore can be diagnosed: it could very well be true that their social/family ties are stronger than many individuals because that is all they have to hold onto that is familiar to them. Support is essential to our well-being, you are correct in that.
When I came to this country first, I became very involved in the Irish community here because it was familiar to me and connected me to home. I professed shortly after my arrival but I never felt the same bond with other professing people. Yes we had fellowship together but everyone kept to themselves in between. There was a disconnect between our meeting time and our day to day lives. I think that may be a contributing factor as to why there is depression/anxiety amongst friends and workers. Yeah we can get together with them socially but I found that the friends put up a wall when it comes to emotional support.
For many years we were told to pray about our problems and that we didn't need to seek professional help for our mental health. This is changing now thank goodness. Many friends and workers do seek professional help. However, this could also be due to the fact that there has been such a stigma on mental health in general in the US. I think the more people are educated on mental health issues (friends and workers included), more professional help will be sought.
Glad you like my "giraffe"!! He keeps me smilin' ;D
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Post by diet coke on Sept 28, 2007 11:26:34 GMT -5
Is anxiety and depression more prevailant among those professing & those in similar sects? Or do those in the Truth ignore signs of depression so they won't look bad in front of the workers for seeking help from worldly counselors? Does the work based doctrine increase a feeling of lonliness and insecurity plus the inability to forge close friendships among the unprofessing folks. Something to think about... Yes, there is a stigma among the friends about "outside" counseling of any type, and that's too bad. My extended family has a history of depression, myself included. Depression isn't talked about much in the truth, so my family are the only ones I can speak intelligently about. Most of my family is professing. But I would estimate that the depression problems are rather equally divided between the professing and non-professing. ergo, I'm no help at all to the discussion.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 28, 2007 11:32:37 GMT -5
I think the "stigma" in the Truth regarding mental health issues is partly because of accepted social beliefs as a nation in general, as well as the internal belief that God is our answer to everything, including our ailments.
As I said before, if our leg is broken, we go to the Dr. It should be no different when it comes to mental health issues.
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sms
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Post by sms on Sept 28, 2007 13:17:32 GMT -5
Wondering wrote:
Is anxiety and depression more prevailant among those professing & those in similar sects?
How would anyone know? There would need to be a scientific study to answer this question - and I don't believe one has been done. Bert has been extrapolating from other studies to support his opinion - but this is not at all scientific - and does not accurately answer your question.
I have seen depression and anxiety both in and out of the 2 x 2s faith. I have seen some reluctance within the 2 x 2 way to not seek counseling/medication for these issues as some members feel that Jesus/faith should be able to "cure" these issues. However, others among the 2 x 2s have sought counseling/medication for their depression and anxiety. I don't feel this is different than other faiths - I've seen folks in the hospital refusing even blood pressure medications, feeling that God/Jesus/faith will cure their high blood pressure without medications/lifestyle changes. So it just depends.
So, again, this question is not possible to answer definitively.
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Sept 28, 2007 23:41:56 GMT -5
quote - " quote - "I have noticed among those 2x2's who are close to me, an anxiousness to move from this life to the next which disturbs me." ;D I don't want to die! ..when you gain understanding of what's awaiting us.....why in the Heck would anyone want to stick around here? . . .I don't necessarily look forward to the act of dying..death can sometimes be painful or messy..but I so absolutlely am looking forward to and anticipating what comes next that it's a physical desire and wanting in my flesh to be gone from this world and on to the next. If there's one book other than the Bible I'd say is mandatory reading for a believer..."Heaven", by Randy Alcorn. . ..... .it has completely transformed my understanding of what awaits us..how physically real and alive heaven will be for us..read it!
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 29, 2007 0:07:47 GMT -5
I think the "stigma" in the Truth regarding mental health issues is partly because of accepted social beliefs as a nation in general, as well as the internal belief that God is our answer to everything, including our ailments.
As I said before, if our leg is broken, we go to the Dr. It should be no different when it comes to mental health issues. Eh, I've been to counseling in the past. Not ashamed to admit it either. Like you said, when you have a problem, you fix it. By the way, ..... M.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2007 5:59:44 GMT -5
The conjecture that f&ws have fewer depression and similar challenges may be true, but for different reasons that what bert suggests, citing the "supportive" social aspect.
In reality, there is a constant sorting process going on. People with depression, mental illness and personality disorders get treated cooly, or without outright meanness. They eventually leave or get kicked out, thereby by improving the estimated statistics for fewer f&ws with these challenges.
If we were a highly godly church, our numbers for folks with these kinds of problems would be higher than the average for society, not lower. It would be proof that people were getting help being associated with our church.
I have a lot of admiration for the Salvation Army church which probably has more people with these kinds of problems than any voluntary group in society.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 29, 2007 7:57:33 GMT -5
I think the "stigma" in the Truth regarding mental health issues is partly because of accepted social beliefs as a nation in general, as well as the internal belief that God is our answer to everything, including our ailments.
As I said before, if our leg is broken, we go to the Dr. It should be no different when it comes to mental health issues. Eh, I've been to counseling in the past. Not ashamed to admit it either. Like you said, when you have a problem, you fix it. By the way, ..... M. OH....... emm...... thanks!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2007 8:06:26 GMT -5
I have another slant on this: I attended a NSW Anglican church this year. I was surprised at the number of handicapped people and social misfits present. You may see that as being fine, and I have no problem with it - but I wondered to myself, "where is the mainstream?"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2007 8:21:51 GMT -5
I have another slant on this: I attended a NSW Anglican church this year. I was surprised at the number of handicapped people and social misfits present. You may see that as being fine, and I have no problem with it - but I wondered to myself, "where is the mainstream?" Jesus neither came for nor died for the righteous, but the sinners and misfits. Our church engages in a sorting process in its envangelizing process. We seek the righteous, we seek those who are a lot like ourselves, and you simply don't get in if you are not deemed good enough. Then later, heaven help you if you develop mental and emotional problems, you're ignored or history. Be thankful bert that you live in a backwater part of the country, you probably don't see this going on in your area.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2007 8:44:06 GMT -5
I am not talking about my church here. I refer to churches which seem to have lost their mainstream congregation. You often see it - the extremely religious and the extreme outcasts, but nothing in the middle. Where has mainstream society gone?
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 29, 2007 9:20:58 GMT -5
I am not talking about my church here. I refer to churches which seem to have lost their mainstream congregation. You often see it - the extremely religious and the extreme outcasts, but nothing in the middle. Where has mainstream society gone? They're at MY church!! ;D
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Sept 29, 2007 9:28:56 GMT -5
No, mine!
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Sept 29, 2007 9:31:49 GMT -5
lemme correct that..shoulda said. ." and at mine!". ..kinda hard to be depressed/anxious with all the great music, singing, preaching goin' on!
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 29, 2007 15:34:56 GMT -5
Wings it was strictly a joke...I promise!! Sorry I didn't make that more clear..... you know, MY "imaginary friend" thinks YOU have probs? ;D Politely...cute av!!!! ;D
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 29, 2007 15:48:05 GMT -5
Wings it was strictly a joke...I promise. You know MY "imaginary friend" thinks YOU have probs? ;D LOL.... I know. I'll have to get me one of those!! ;D
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 29, 2007 15:50:11 GMT -5
Hehehe. good...I thought YOU thoughtI was insulting you. If anyone was, it was my imaginary friend. and I apologize on his behalf. Lol. (but I don't think he was) ;D
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