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Post by twosweetnaive on Sept 23, 2007 3:36:15 GMT -5
has anyone read The Secret by Rhonda Byrne ? or watched the documentary ? what do you think about it ? what has it done for you? and is it a form of brainwashing, or just a form of positive reinforcement ? how does it relate to the truth? does it change people in negative ways as well as positive ways ? is it a good thing or can i get the same thing from my Amway sponsor ?
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Post by More on Sept 23, 2007 8:02:55 GMT -5
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 23, 2007 9:10:30 GMT -5
OR....don't bother and just have a positive attitude in your life. Same thing. M.
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Post by ranman unlogged on Sept 23, 2007 14:16:33 GMT -5
i am using the powers of the SECRET to get back in the chatroom.... i am visualizing syd letting me back in.... we shall soon see if the power of the SECRET works. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by ranman visualizing on Sept 23, 2007 14:19:06 GMT -5
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Post by Not David Schirmer on Sept 23, 2007 16:35:30 GMT -5
i am using the powers of the SECRET to get back in the chatroom.... i am visualizing syd letting me back in.... we shall soon see if the power of the SECRET works. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Yeah ran but you're not doing it right: www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbNJMUZSwoJust send me the cheque and i'll get Dave to visualize with you.. wow what power!
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 24, 2007 9:04:42 GMT -5
I have read "the secret" and it's more than about just having a positive attitude. Its a simplified version of what is "the intention experiment" by Lynne McTaggart. TIE goes into more detail of how it works and the experiments that prove it. I have no doubt that our minds have an incredible power. We are all made up of atoms/molecules/energy and surrounded by energy fields. Our energy can manipulate the energy around us. If you watch "what the bleep do we know" you will get a glimpse of how quantum physics works and how we are affected by and can affect our energy fields etc.
It comes with the belief that something already "is". Its not wishful thinking. Its believing that you have and you are.
One example might be how we stub our toe getting out of bed in morning and we are instantly in a bad mood. We think "oh this day is going to be bad".... so guess what.... it snowballs... next we know we cant find our car keys, we get into an accident on the way to work, the babysitter calls to say one of the kids is throwing up all over the place, and our boss gives us a right telling off for being late. With each incident we are confirming in our minds what we believe about the day.. its bad and going to get worse! Negative energy attracts negative energy like magnets. Second scenario.... we get out of bed, stub our toe and say to ourselves "ouch that hurt but its not going to effect my day... in fact im going to have a great day today. Positive energy attracts positive energy. We can manipulate our day by how we think. It works... ive done it.
Know what ive done too? When I go to the mall... i dont think "oh i bet ill never find a parking space". No "i believe im going to find one right up front... rockstar parking for me!" I even envision myself pulling in right up front. Guess what..... since ive been doing that i have found a space within the first 10 spots in a crowded parking lot. Try it out for yourself! Im not sure how things rearrange themselves... its not like a car will jump out of a space just because i want that one! But it works and i dont know how. While we do have the ability to control/manipulate our energy field, it should not take the place of God in our lives. Some think that "the secret" is all we need and leave God out of it.
I give praise to God for being such a wonderful creator of such a complex universe!
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Post by Not David Schirmer on Sept 24, 2007 9:22:15 GMT -5
Know what ive done too? When I go to the mall... i dont think "oh i bet ill never find a parking space". No "i believe im going to find one right up front... rockstar parking for me!" I even envision myself pulling in right up front. Guess what..... since ive been doing that i have found a space within the first 10 spots in a crowded parking lot. Try it out for yourself! Im not sure how things rearrange themselves... its not like a car will jump out of a space just because i want that one! But it works and i dont know how. Wingsofeagle, David wants to give you some advice on those parking spaces. Don't do it like these guys: www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbNJMUZSwoSafer to fly! Your advice about not leaving God out is spot on. The Secret is all about having faith in "the universe" (in reality, the power of faith is not in how strong ours is, but how powerful is the one in whom we place our faith.. ie. God). And The Secret reminds you to be thankful, to.. the universe. Like you say, we thank God. Even for that parking space He provides, like every other detail of our lives where He works powerfully as we trust him (just as Abraham and Jacob etc did through life).
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 24, 2007 10:24:46 GMT -5
Hilarious video! The key is to not take things into your own hands like these unlearned persons but to allow it to happen for you.
Like when we put our lives in God's hands... "let go, let God". Everything just lines right up better than if we had tried to do it ourselves. :-)
You are right.... when we have faith in God, we also have faith in the universe because he is in all things and the creator of all things. When we believe in these "phenonema" we are also believing in Him.
I love that song by Chris Tomlin "How Great is our God".... such awesome praise for an awesome God!
"unlearned" was supposed to be i d i o t s!!!!
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Post by Please explain on Sept 24, 2007 10:40:54 GMT -5
TIE goes into more detail of how it works and the experiments that prove it. Do you have a reference for these proofs? Do you have an example how any energy field a human produces manipulates any other energy field? What is the form of the energy? How strong is it, say 1 meter from the source? How many calories does it take to keep the energy field active? If you describe an energy field you will quickly find that the idea of a human producing any field that can do as you claim is somewhat far fetched. Energy fields require energy to be produced. They are capable of doing work. Doesn't it seem odd that the energy fields you are talking about cannot be sensed or measured by instruments designed expressly for measuring energy fields? Sort of like forcing the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? It almost sounds like you are saying the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is one part of the quantum physics world that would work directly against what you are claiming. This would be almost exactly how magnets do not work. The opposite qualities attract. You would think your negative energy (wherever it is produced) would keep other negative energy away. I mean, try to stuff a coulomb worth of charge into a leyden jar! What happened to the accident? The ill children? You are saying that your thoughts cure infection? Correct the driving habits of other people? I am guessing selective memory. You are excited when it works. Remember those times. On the other hand - a health tip: Having to walk a few rows to the mall is not the worst possible fate. Do you not see the flaw in your reasoning? It cannot work. What happens if everyone envisions themselves in the first 10 spots? Why not? If you are controling the forces in the universe you are controlling the universe. That seems to me to be the definition of God. How many times has God got you a "10 spot" parking place?!? And then believe you can control it.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 24, 2007 12:47:47 GMT -5
While I appreciate what you wrote, Wings, (as far as how your day will go depending on how you think it will go) etc....I just still don't buy into it. Certain things will happen in your life whether you have a wonderful attitude or a crap one, etc. I've always been a pretty uplifted, bubbly person for the most part, but....eh. n/m. If I say too much I might have a bad day... (and I'm just teasin...not bein' snarky!) Hehehe. I will just have to agree to disagree on this one. M.
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Post by as i c it on Sept 24, 2007 13:16:52 GMT -5
Please explain makes some good points (and some good sense here).
No one wishes to have a child born with great health or mental problems.
And no one wishes to receive news that their child has died--or will die.
All those big and negative choices aren't within our power to decide.
But there are (also) many areas of our lives where a positive belief and attitude will work for our lives--which is also scriptural: and which we are encouraged to do.
I believe God gave us some power--but--our power is not and was never meant--to be used to challenge His!
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 24, 2007 15:55:26 GMT -5
TIE goes into more detail of how it works and the experiments that prove it. Do you have a reference for these proofs? Do you have an example how any energy field a human produces manipulates any other energy field? What is the form of the energy? How strong is it, say 1 meter from the source? How many calories does it take to keep the energy field active? If you describe an energy field you will quickly find that the idea of a human producing any field that can do as you claim is somewhat far fetched. Energy fields require energy to be produced. They are capable of doing work. Doesn't it seem odd that the energy fields you are talking about cannot be sensed or measured by instruments designed expressly for measuring energy fields? Sort of like forcing the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? It almost sounds like you are saying the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is one part of the quantum physics world that would work directly against what you are claiming. This would be almost exactly how magnets do not work. The opposite qualities attract. You would think your negative energy (wherever it is produced) would keep other negative energy away. I mean, try to stuff a coulomb worth of charge into a leyden jar! What happened to the accident? The ill children? You are saying that your thoughts cure infection? Correct the driving habits of other people? I am guessing selective memory. You are excited when it works. Remember those times. On the other hand - a health tip: Having to walk a few rows to the mall is not the worst possible fate. Do you not see the flaw in your reasoning? It cannot work. What happens if everyone envisions themselves in the first 10 spots? Why not? If you are controling the forces in the universe you are controlling the universe. That seems to me to be the definition of God. How many times has God got you a "10 spot" parking place?!? And then believe you can control it. I dont have a degree in this field so im sorry I cannot give you a more detailed answer. I described my experience. It doesn't have to be yours. I will look up the references for the "intention experiment" and let you know.
There is a mind/body connection.... what we think is what we are. How can we measure exactly how the mind effects the body? We can't but it does exist. We will have all the answers someday.
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Post by Heather on Sept 24, 2007 16:07:29 GMT -5
I loved "The Secret". I think the world would be a better place if more people watched/read it.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 24, 2007 16:20:00 GMT -5
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 24, 2007 16:34:31 GMT -5
HEF Electromagnetic Field Studies
Dr. Robert Becker - of Upstate Medical School. mapped a complex electrical field on the body that was shaped like the body and the central nervous system. He named this field "The Direct Current Control System" in his publication of the same name in 1962. He found that this field changes shape and strength with physiological and psychological changes. Continuing his experiments through 1979, he found particles the size of electrons moving through this field.
Dr. Zheng Ronliang of Lanzhou University in China, in "Scientific Research of Qigong", measured the Qi radiated from the human body by using a biological detector made from a leaf vein connected to a photo quantum device. He studied the Qi emissions of a Qigong master, and the energy field emanations of a clairvoyant. The energy pulses emanating from the hands of the Qigong Master are very different in nature from that of the clairvoyants. At Shanghai Atomic Nuclear Institute of Academia, Sinica, it was shown that some vital force emanations from Qigong masters seem to have a very low frequency fluctuating carrier wave. Sometimes, Qi was detected as a micro particle flow with a particle size of 60 microns in diameter, and velocity of 20-50 cm/sec.
Dr. Dejan Rakovic and Gordana Vitaliano MD - have conducted extensive experiments in Yugoslavia studying the biophysical nature of consciousness. Dr. Vitaliano is now in Boston, where she founded the Mindwaves' Institute. Dr. Vitaliano's primary research program is Neural Networks, Brain Waves, and Ionic Structures: A New Biophysical Model for Conscious Systems Processing.
In papers published in the January, 1, and January 15, 1996 issues of 21st Link, Dr. Racovic & Dr. Vitaliano discussed the possibility of HEF being associated with a low dielectric ionic structure with embedded ultra low frequency electromagnetic field. They also discussed the development of a new consciousness-exhibiting, brain-like biocomputer which would have a similar ionic neural network.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 24, 2007 16:49:07 GMT -5
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Post by Not David Schirmer on Sept 24, 2007 17:53:22 GMT -5
Hilarious video! The key is to not take things into your own hands like these unlearned persons but to allow it to happen for you.
Like when we put our lives in God's hands... "let go, let God". Everything just lines right up better than if we had tried to do it ourselves. :-)
You are right.... when we have faith in God, we also have faith in the universe because he is in all things and the creator of all things. When we believe in these "phenonema" we are also believing in Him.
I love that song by Chris Tomlin "How Great is our God".... such awesome praise for an awesome God!"unlearned" was supposed to be i d i o t s!!!! wings, love your sense of humor! It's very funny (the video), not "unlearned" nor "i d i o t s" but Aussie larrikins! And appreciate your trust and praise for our awesome God. Blessings!
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Sept 26, 2007 15:51:00 GMT -5
Has anyone read The Truth Behind the Secret?
The man who wrote it preached at our church once... and I also bought the book. Pretty darn interesting!
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Post by selah on Sept 26, 2007 17:16:34 GMT -5
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Post by diet coke on Sept 26, 2007 17:44:50 GMT -5
I loved "The Secret". I think the world would be a better place if more people watched/read it. I think it would, too. I don't pretend to understand how a positive attitude works, though, and I think a disclaimer would be appropriate: A positive attitude (sorry about the obvious oversimplication) sometimes helps, but not always. The stars don't just align perfectly every time because you "believe", as the book/movie would lead a person to think. There are fields of influence beyond our own selves at work. Positive thinking, self-confidence, self-belief, etc. is really just an additional tool you'll find in the toolbox of most successful people.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 26, 2007 18:46:43 GMT -5
well put, diet coke. PS...I was looking through some icons last night (I love to have different ones....they make me laugh.) and I found one that made me think of your user name. Will post it later when I get home (I'm at work and will be quite late...groc shopping after work!) (not that you needed to know that.) ;D
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Post by On the flip side on Sept 26, 2007 19:20:34 GMT -5
Breaking Through the Barriers of Darkness: Recognizing the Cult of Qigong for What It Is www.chinaforjesus.com/resources/qigong/chap8.htm_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1. Wu Caiyun, "A Clinical Analysis of 76 Cases of Qigong-induced Mental Disorder Characterized Mainly by Hallucination and Delusion," Journal of Clinical Psychological Medicine (Linchuang Jingshen Yixue Zazhi), 1991, 2:7. 2. Xu [characters unclear], "A Discussion of Several Questions Relating to the Forensic Assessment of Mental Disease," Shanghai Archives of Psychiatry (Shanghai Jingshen Yixue), 1999, (New) 11:9. 3. Zheng Zhanpei, "On the Evaluation of Degree of Mental Injury, and Some Issues for Attention in Practical Work," Chinese Journal of Psychiatry (Zhonghua Jingshenke Zazhi), 2000, 1:6. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Qigong (ancient Chinese practice) Yan Xin, a Chinese Qigong master known to most of the over one billion people in China, gave a talk in San Francisco in 1991. Seventeen hundred devotees, most of them Chinese, showed up at the Masonic auditorium to listen to Yan. The San Francisco Chronicle on 5/16/91 reported that "minutes into his talk, several began experiencing what Yan Xin calls spontaneous movements." The Chronicle reporter said that "before long, the scene resembled a Pentecostal prayer meeting with many people waving their arms and making unintelligible sounds." Yan told his audience, "Those who are sensitive might start having some strong physical sensations - or start laughing or crying. Don't worry. This is quite normal." The article said that "since 1985, when a Qigong revival started sweeping China, 50 to 60 million Chinese have gone to see Yan."
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Post by Falun Gong on Sept 26, 2007 19:28:49 GMT -5
The qigong boom was a mass movement involving tens if not hundreds of millions of Chinese from the early 1980s through the early 2000s. Led by charismatic masters, the movement promised miracle cures and supernormal powers, to be obtained through physical exercises, meditation, visualisation, trance, and/or speaking in tongues. Parallel phenomena in the West would be called new religious movements or new age movements.
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Post by Spoof FUNNY on Sept 26, 2007 20:08:26 GMT -5
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 26, 2007 20:11:28 GMT -5
LOL. Yeah, that was funny...thanks. Mich
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Post by rational on Sept 26, 2007 22:23:51 GMT -5
1) Continuing his experiments through 1979, he found particles the size of electrons moving through this field. 2)Sometimes, Qi was detected as a micro particle flow with a particle size of 60 microns in diameter, and velocity of 20-50 cm/sec. I haven't been following this closely but there seems to be a collection of pseudo scientific jargon. In the first statement one would have to wonder how "electron sized" particles could be seen. Being only one thousandth the diameter of a proton, there should be some details on how these particles could be observed. I am guessing the observations are as valid as Percival Lowell's observations of the canals on Mars. Statement 2 puts the particle size at 60 µm. A human hair is about 70 µm. This presents a problem because that is a visible particle so anyone could see these. They would also pile up as they moved to where ever they are going. If all living organisms have these particles why can't they be seen? Any time I hear about energy fields that cannot be sensed by any instruments but can be seen by only some people or can be manipulated by people I have to wonder how that could be.
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Post by freedom on Sept 27, 2007 0:20:10 GMT -5
has anyone read The Secret by Rhonda Byrne ? or watched the documentary ? what do you think about it ? what has it done for you? and is it a form of brainwashing, or just a form of positive reinforcement ? how does it relate to the truth? does it change people in negative ways as well as positive ways ? is it a good thing or can i get the same thing from my Amway sponsor ? When I watched The Secret, I was very excited, as these were the very same truths that I had learned through my association with the network marketing business I am in. These are the same truths taught by people like Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, Earl Nightingale, Bob Proctor, and Anthony Robbins. The list could go on and on. These are truths that I believe have been discovered by all the great thinkers throughout the ages. I love this subject, and feel like I need to go back and watch it again, or listen to it, or read it, to be reminded of how to apply it to my life. I believe that these principles underly success or failure in business or our personal life. Our belief system is there, and either brings us success or failure. We have the power to change our beliefs to bring about positive changes in our lives. I have experienced applying these principals in my personal life. I was empowered to get out of a bad marriage, and a couple years later found a wonderful man, with whom I am now very happily married. I believe a major turning point was being in a Tony Robbins Seminar. We did board breaking. If you ever have a chance to do this, it is an awesome, breakthrough experience. One person holds up a board, and you try to break it. We were to write on it first--what I wrote, was "I am loved, and I am Lovable". A person cannot break the board with brute strength. But somehow, when a person becomes entirely focussed, or fully believing, or something. It's been so long ago, I can't quite remember exactly why, but your hand just sails through the board as if it were a toothpick. I did break my board, after several unsuccessful attempts. It was such an empowering experience. I think I still have that broken board. I also put up that affirmation, along with a few more, inside a kitchen cupboard that I open often. The affirmations included one that said "I have a happy marriage and family life". When I wrote these down, I really was hoping for my marriage at that time to improve. But it soon became apparent that that was impossible. I remember thinking that I needed to end this marriage sooner rather than later, because I wanted to get on with my life, and find someone with whom I could have a healthy, satisfying relationship. I believe those affirmations became part of my subconscious beliefs, that put me on a journey which resulted in finding my present husband, and recognizing that he was right for me. There was also personal growth within me, that enabled me to open myself up to be loved, and to love. It all began with a belief that it was possible. It can't be a wishy washy belief, but a belief strong enough to give your hand power enough to sail through a 3/4 inch pine board. Now I need to apply this principal to other areas of my life, also, mainly my business. As far as if you can get the same thing from your Amway sponsor? I would rather doubt it, unless s/he has "The Secret". It is my understanding that Amway encourages you to get all their business/self help and personal growth tapes etc. from them. This is sad because there is such a wealth of information to be gotten from other great teachers, including "The Secret". Freedom
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