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Post by diet coke on Sept 28, 2007 21:38:21 GMT -5
GIT is no more a representive of the average f&w member than I am, or Bert is, or Brad was. I'd be surprised if anybody here was "mainline 2x2". Yet GIT is one of the few on this board that l always read. I suppose his devotion or arrogant manner might weigh on people after a while, and I hate that he often stoops to the level of his detractors, but he has a lot of thought-provoking things to say. Ignore the preaching and enjoy the lessons.
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Post by Bluenoser on Sept 28, 2007 21:47:53 GMT -5
You're right Bluenoser. I just couldn't help myself. After following the link to all of his posts, and reading until I became nauseated, I just had to say something in reaction to his astounding arrogance. BTW, doesn't that particular quality seem odd in someone who is professing? I have met a lot of the F&W, and don't recall EVER meeting anyone like GIT. Perhaps because the majority stay off of the internet? ? (But, as WTBWGod says, he is devout and I also admire that.)
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Post by boring as heck on Sept 28, 2007 21:56:04 GMT -5
Gloryintruth:
You must lead one boring life...if I were your husband or wife (or boyfriend or girlfriend or brother or sister, etc.), I would move to another continent: see excerpt below...
"This is a topic that I have addressed repeatedly for some time. It's a topic of interest to me recently, ...:
Anyone who begins a topic with "repeatedly" must be SO DANG BORED with their life they have to "repeat" it.
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Post by truthisnotalie on Sept 29, 2007 5:28:53 GMT -5
This is my first post here and I would like to add a comment concerning the following post that I read.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GIT,
I think the discussion about free will vs. God's sovereignty is incomplete in itself, and can come to no absolute conclusion that makes complete sense without considering the difference between salvation and reward and the calling of overcomers vs the "just saved". Further, I believe we have to look at the possibility that "hell" (hades) is simply a place of rest in the grave and not an eternal torment in the "lake of fire" and the possibility that God will save everyone at some time in the ages to come.
In the process we have to look at the true meaning of "eternity" , "whole world", and "end of the world".
So, it would really take a BOOK-length discussion to cover it, in my opinion.
Best! Edy
I don't think that "hell" (hades) is eternal torment in the "lake of fire". nor can it be described as simply a place of rest in the grave.
I believe it can perhaps be desribed as "having to spend eternity outside the will and presence of God." Cut off from the fellowship of God and his heavenly family. Where there is no happiness or fullfillment, in love and joy and peace, cast out in loneliness for eternity.
People sometimes say that everything ends with death and therefore there's nothing further to worry about. But Christians both true and untrue know that the spirit goes on for eternity. As we see from biblical writings that there will be no crossing the gulf between the true and untrue after death. No second chance. I have heard people say 'Well if I go to hell I'll have plenty of friends there" but I believe it will be a very solitary, lonely spiritual existence forever.
The thought of what is ahead after death should make us want to be true to our Heavenly Father, make us want to "make our calling and election sure"
It will be a terrible eternal existence for those who are found outside the will of God at the day of death.
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 29, 2007 5:42:05 GMT -5
You must lead one boring life...if I were your husband or wife (or boyfriend or girlfriend or brother or sister, etc.), I would move to another continent: see excerpt below...
Conspictuous by their absence are the howls of protest at this gratituous nastiness.
Anyone who begins a topic with "repeatedly" must be SO DANG BORED with their life they have to "repeat" it.
I notice you didn't interact with my genuine issue of faith as regards these doctrines. I suspect you probably did not even bother to read what I had to say, but launched immediately into a hostile comment.
You suggest I must be bored and that is the only reason why I would come again and again to the one issue. I find it significant that you either cannot imagine, or else you refuse to attribute, any higher motive for dedicated investigation of a doctrine other than entertainment. Ergo, because I'm investing time into serious private study I must lead a thoroughly boring existence.
What about a craving to know the truth? Or a thirst to settle a matter that has weighed on my mind for several years? What about the hunger to know God and be known of Him and to get a truthful perspective of the reality that forms this life?
I'm guessing, given your very uncharitable remarks, that you have never dedicated yourself to soul-searching, prayer, fasting, meditation and reading to truly know the stuff of truth; the substance of existence.
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Post by Not Impressed on Sept 29, 2007 7:08:28 GMT -5
GIT is no more a representive of the average f&w member than I am, or Bert is, or Brad was. I'd be surprised if anybody here was "mainline 2x2". Yet GIT is one of the few on this board that l always read. I suppose his devotion or arrogant manner might weigh on people after a while, and I hate that he often stoops to the level of his detractors, but he has a lot of thought-provoking things to say. Ignore the preaching and enjoy the lessons. Sorry Diet Coke, I just don't see any "lessons" from GIT being worth the space they're written in. Unless you value the pious, arrogant, self serving ramblings of an ego maniac, I just don't see the value. For GIT: Of all the posts in this thread and the previous "I'm still shaking", I find it interesting, and very telling, the posts you choose to respond to. It goes a long way toward proving my point.
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timber
Senior Member
Posts: 249
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Post by timber on Sept 29, 2007 9:07:19 GMT -5
I wonder, GIT, if you were not a part of the Fellowship, if you would be Catholic. Perhaps a scholar within its fold.
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Post by the reality on Sept 29, 2007 12:51:39 GMT -5
I have published numerous apologetics writings all over the internet. I might also include the corpus of my other private writings, including the textbooks I have written and actually issue to real live students, my string of research papers on different fields of Education which I produced for my postgraduate degree under real live professors. This is rather suspect. Until you can cite any of your so-called publishings, this entire quote is empty and void of substance. Some further reading is here and hereAnd then there is the following "literary output" from GIT on a Catholic forum: I often find these forums a complete waste of time because the sorts of posts that people seem to like putting up are those that contain nothing but carping and slander. One would think that someone might actually mention some of the errors that James White has made so as to point out his shortcomings from real evidence. After all, using reason and common-sense are part and parcel of real theological discussion - demonstrating with sound argumentation from concrete evidence that James White has got it wrong - as opposed to simply hammering on the cradle crying, "He doesn't like our church!"
In the past I have tried to engage in discussion and debate with Roman Catholics about their doctrines and dogmas on various forums. I find it surprising that even very educated people - like the celebrated Dr. Clay Randal (MD) who runs a website in which he lambasts Protestantism - cannot mount a coherent defence of their own beliefs. When confronted with exegesis of the Bible, when even the words of popes and church doctors are simply quoted back to them, so many Roman Catholics seem to throw their arms into the air and become hostile.
I can remember a debate online in which a certain Roman Catholic apologist, in defending the concept of Purgatory, stated that Job was a perfect example of vicarious atonement - that Job's offerings were made on behalf of others. When I pointed out that (1) Job's children were destroyed for their sins, (2) Job's children were unrepentant and continued in their sins, (3) Job's sacrifices for his children accomplished nothing for their spiritual or temporal estate, and (4) the clear teaching that the blood of bulls does not satisfy God - "sacrifice and offering I did not desire", the apologist shut down. Despite claiming a superior case to Reformed Protestant beliefs, it always amazes me the blatant failure of Roman Catholics to carry their apologetics through to the end.
James White in my view is a remarkable man. His works have changed my thinking and my theology dramatically. I am a Reformed Protestant today, partly due to his efforts. White recieves abuse and silly gimmicky stunts like "pray and fast for his conversion" (I mean, really, who could take this kind of rhetoric seriously?) on a daily basis. Yet how often do we find him biting back with ad hominem argumentation? Never. White does what I think is a very Christian thing: he asks - "show me my errors, demonstrate from plain reason and the clear teaching of scripture my shortcomings, and if you can do so I will change my beliefs and words in a flash".
I think he will be waiting for a while though.
I added the bold emphasis only to make the following point: GIT never puts this into practice for himself.
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Post by Bluenoser on Sept 29, 2007 15:23:18 GMT -5
Maybe he should leave the debates with Catholics to the workers...or be a worker himself.
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Post by GIT Jason Landless on Sept 29, 2007 21:11:37 GMT -5
Are GIT and Jason one in the same?
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Post by depends on Sept 29, 2007 21:29:28 GMT -5
Depends on whether or not he is honest enough to tell us his name.
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 30, 2007 6:21:05 GMT -5
This is rather suspect. Until you can cite any of your so-called publishings, this entire quote is empty and void of substance.
Ironic that of your posts in the last couple of days, you seem dedicated to bashing me. An unknown personage on the internet is hardly the kind of audience to which I would send any of my personal links. And even if you were not unknown, you're the last person in the world I would share anything of mine.
Some further reading is
Ah yes, the old let's-post-links-to-six-year-old-political-debates. Which follows hard on the "let's-trawl-the-internet-for-anything-connected-to-GIT" act. Like this is all so relevant. But I guess it gives fodder to the hatemongers, and deflects attention from theological issues. And then there is the following "literary output" from GIT on a Catholic forum:
Funny how I don't trawl the internet fishing for other the writings of the exes, but you do. For someone who bears the moniker "The Reality", yet hides all his details, but happily blasts away at the Google search engine using what he knows about me, I think your version of reality is obviously a bit different from mine.
I added the bold emphasis only to make the following point: GIT never puts this into practice for himself.
Says the expert on my private spiritual life. How do you know? I guess you must be slavering over your keyboard at this rich treasure trove of my writings - which I do not consider formal writings. You've found something which you can use to bash; you can't demonstrate ANY (theological, historical or moral) error with my writings on THIS forum, you can't demonstrate ANY point in which I have lied or distorted the truth, and you can't demonstrate ANY stridently objectionable commentary - as opposed to my alleged "arrogance" which nonetheless, everyone seems reluctant to furnish examples.
So when all else fails, and you can't tear open the body of your opponent to scoop out the softer parts within, you must go to Plan B, and hope they've tripped up elsewhere on the net.
Happy hunting. You've apparently got more a lot more time to waste than I do. And you obviously care way more about my contributions across cyberspace, than I do about yours.
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Post by Brick on Sept 30, 2007 6:55:41 GMT -5
I suspect you probably did not even bother to read what I had to say... That would be me. I'm sorry, GIT, but your lengthy dissertations bore me to the point that walking the plank off my ship in shark infested waters begins to appeal to me as a form of entertainment.
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Post by Bridge on Sept 30, 2007 15:53:43 GMT -5
What's the matter Brick? You get rid of your TV?
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 30, 2007 15:55:08 GMT -5
Awwww Brick, be nice. I skim too, and sometimes skip altogether....depends on whether or not the topic is of interest to me but c'monnnnnnnn.
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Post by same here on Sept 30, 2007 16:16:53 GMT -5
I suspect you probably did not even bother to read what I had to say... That would be me. I'm sorry, GIT, but your lengthy dissertations bore me to the point that walking the plank off my ship in shark infested waters begins to appeal to me as a form of entertainment. Same here. GIT bawls like a baby that we don't show him where his errors are. GIT is the most stuck up person I have ever run across.
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Post by gosh on Sept 30, 2007 16:19:27 GMT -5
And you obviously care way more about my contributions across cyberspace, than I do about yours. Gosh, we're so honored that his emminence took the time to pause and look down his nose at us peons. We are so honored!
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Post by Brick on Sept 30, 2007 17:14:34 GMT -5
To Bridge: No. But TV is pretty boring to me too. Although I have a few, I'm not a watcher.
To Wannabe: And GIT: It is not my intention to be nasty. Sorry. I think I pretty well know GIT's general theme and don't have the time or attention span to waste on lengthy repetitive posts.
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 30, 2007 17:36:54 GMT -5
Same here. GIT bawls like a baby that we don't show him where his errors are. GIT is the most stuck up person I have ever run across.
Whether you think I am stuck-up, arrogant or unpleasant is beside the point if you intend to accuse me of gross error, distortion of the truth, promotion of falsehood and other assorted shortcomings.
I keep coming back to the same point: if accusing me of error, please furnish examples from this forum of those errors. Surely if I spend all my time writing falsehoods then finding those numerous errors would be an easy thing to do, right? And if you lay it out in the open, then I am refuted and shown to be an awful excuse for a human being, and your theological position is vindicated. Yet so far, no one has risen to this challenge which implies by default that I have written nothing untrue or false, but have the angst of people anyway.
Let's be absolutely clear about one or two things. I "get" that you don't like me already. I appreciate that you (along with others) percieve of me as being arrogant and "stuck-up". That's fine. I'm a disagreeable person. I have recieved the message.
But if your entire argument is based on the thesis "I don't like GIT" you have proved absolutely nothing about the Church to which I belong, and to which others formerly belonged.
Do you see how ad hominem argumentation achieves nothing?
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 30, 2007 18:29:31 GMT -5
just razzin' ya, Brick
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Post by there is on Sept 30, 2007 18:45:50 GMT -5
you have proved absolutely nothing about the Church to which I belong there's nothing left to prove. The only one who doesn't get THAT is you.
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Post by Not Impressed on Sept 30, 2007 20:08:00 GMT -5
Same here. GIT bawls like a baby that we don't show him where his errors are. GIT is the most stuck up person I have ever run across.Whether you think I am stuck-up, arrogant or unpleasant is beside the point if you intend to accuse me of gross error, distortion of the truth, promotion of falsehood and other assorted shortcomings. I keep coming back to the same point: if accusing me of error, please furnish examples from this forum of those errors. Surely if I spend all my time writing falsehoods then finding those numerous errors would be an easy thing to do, right? And if you lay it out in the open, then I am refuted and shown to be an awful excuse for a human being, and your theological position is vindicated. Yet so far, no one has risen to this challenge which implies by default that I have written nothing untrue or false, but have the angst of people anyway. Let's be absolutely clear about one or two things. I "get" that you don't like me already. I appreciate that you (along with others) percieve of me as being arrogant and "stuck-up". That's fine. I'm a disagreeable person. I have recieved the message. But if your entire argument is based on the thesis "I don't like GIT" you have proved absolutely nothing about the Church to which I belong, and to which others formerly belonged. Do you see how ad hominem argumentation achieves nothing? I'm glad that you get that people percieve you as arrogant (although that's only the beginning). Just wanted to get that out of the way. I haven't been reading here long, but I have noticed that you simply ignore the posts that successfully refute your assertions. I'm not going to quote them all here, but there are a few posts in particular in the thread "I'm shaking right now", by "wingsofaneagle" that beg a response. Then there's the response to your McDonalds analogy. Obviously everyone thought that was a "home run". Where is your response? I can easily see why none of the ex 2X2 members would want to debate the "fellowship's" theology with you. As you said, you're a disagreeable person, and you're also condescending, but make no mistake, people HAVE successfully refuted your assertions here, and recently.
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Post by further on Sept 30, 2007 20:27:34 GMT -5
GIT claims to have a doctorate degree. One could safely think that with such advanced education the man would have the ability to read and comprehend research. However, when it comes to 2x2 history, GIT is dishonest with himself. If GIT cannot be intellectually honest with himself, then it cannot be expected that he would be honest with others. He's already lied to himself. Such a person has no personal integrity.
As long as we're discussing higher education, perhaps GIT could tell us how he actually uses his degree. With such a closed-minded approach to history, it's a wonder he completed a doctorate. And further yet, it's a greater wonder that his employer retains such an intellectually dishonest lecturer on faculty.
Perhaps I could place some import on what he has to say on this forum, but I cannot. Doing so with require that I be intellectually dishonest with myself.
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Post by further on Sept 30, 2007 20:29:16 GMT -5
Correction to last sentence:
Doing so would require...
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Post by Attention span on Oct 1, 2007 9:29:18 GMT -5
Gloryintruth: You must lead one boring life...if I were your husband or wife (or boyfriend or girlfriend or brother or sister, etc.), I would move to another continent: see excerpt below... "This is a topic that I have addressed repeatedly for some time. It's a topic of interest to me recently, ...: Anyone who begins a topic with "repeatedly" must be SO DANG BORED with their life they have to "repeat" it. I am sure this is true, both of the above cases, for all who have the attention span of a gnat. Try to understand some people can be interested in more than the headlines, the 10 second nightly news blast, and the Classic Comic version of the great novels.
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Post by Brick on Oct 1, 2007 10:00:42 GMT -5
More power to you, Lovey. I admire your tenacity. However, pirating requires management in a situationally fluid environment where your focus must be brief on everything. I have lost my ability for deep, contemplating thinking. I guess there is something for everyone here. I can choose to skip GIT's posts because they are too long, but you can read them because you enjoy them. And we are all one big happy family, complete with family feuds, etc.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Oct 1, 2007 16:42:01 GMT -5
Lol. Welcomeeeeeeee to the Family Feuddddddddddddd. On this side we have the blahblah family. They want to take home the ...bl.ahalbhal. hehe.I love that show.
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Post by this on Oct 2, 2007 12:50:30 GMT -5
Lol. Welcomeeeeeeee to the Family Feuddddddddddddd. On this side we have the blahblah family. They want to take home the ...bl.ahalbhal. hehe.I love that show. This reminds me of a GIT post.
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