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Post by Guest New to Posting on May 6, 2006 12:32:10 GMT -5
It is sad for me to realize that because I am not professing anymore, my husband would not choose to marry me if he had to do it all over again. Because of his beliefs, he will never leave and claims to love me, but says it is one thing to love another and another thing to choose to live with them. I love the man I married years ago and would do every day over again even though there have been good and bad times. Now I am forced to deal with the knowledge that he would choose someone else if he could do it again. It is sad that religious beliefs can lead a person to this point. My religion teaches me to love, not to divide.
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Post by Irma on May 6, 2006 13:17:21 GMT -5
I have not been identified with the 2x2 for 35 years but my ex-husband who has been out for the same time feels he must return to the "Way" before he dies. Never under estimate the power they hold over someone. A number of his family who have died in the past 10 years have all returned to it before death.
The brain washing has so very much power over those folks. Since they are not allowed to increase their knowledge, they remain in bondage for extended periods of time.
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Post by oh yeah on May 6, 2006 13:23:15 GMT -5
I have not been identified with the 2x2 for 35 years but my ex-husband who has been out for the same time feels he must return to the "Way" before he dies. Never under estimate the power they hold over someone. A number of his family who have died in the past 10 years have all returned to it before death. The brain washing has so very much power over those folks. Since they are not allowed to increase their knowledge, they remain in bondage for extended periods of time. Now, what flavor of brainwashin' do you subscribe to??
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Post by kepper on May 6, 2006 15:52:43 GMT -5
"The brain washing has so very much power over those folks. Since they are not allowed to increase their knowledge, they remain in bondage for extended periods of time. "
This is utter tripe. There's no brainwashing, and no restrictions on knowledge.
There are some idiots among us, and you husband sounds closer to that than brainwashed.
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Post by Guest New to Posting on May 6, 2006 17:23:02 GMT -5
I do believe he has been brainwashed. It is very subtle, but he was raised in it. I come from a very open minded family and was not raised in it. I "professed" for a time when we first got married but could never buy into all of it. I guess I'm not as brain-washable. Unfortunately though this leaves us with a huge divide in our life. We have children as a common bond, but they are teenagers and are becoming more independent. I know they don't advocate divorce, so I imagine he will stay even after the children are gone, it's just really sad for me to have him verbalize these feelings. It makes it pretty hard to enjoy looking at our wedding pictures knowing he would not choose me again.
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Post by Not Tripe on May 6, 2006 17:24:11 GMT -5
"The brain washing has so very much power over those folks. Since they are not allowed to increase their knowledge, they remain in bondage for extended periods of time. " This is utter tripe. There's no brainwashing, and no restrictions on knowledge. There are some unlearned persons among us, and you husband sounds closer to that than brainwashed. I was firmly and strongly rebuked because I had some book on bible studies. One book was apologetics and a study guide was from a different church. I was strongly told that my heart was not in the right place because I did not need these books. Another time I was rebuked was when we were having small private bible study for some invited friends. We read bible verses and then the worker discuss it. When I spoke up to share my thoughts the workers were not happy. I was told in very clear terms that they should be the ones to explain it. So how do you interpret this. Control and restrictions on learning.
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Post by Guestta on May 6, 2006 17:44:30 GMT -5
Your husband makes it sound like he is doing you a great big favor by staying married to you. In truth, it's probably the other way around.
Continue to get clear on your own spiritual path. He will either come or he won't. But don't let him convince you he is doing you a favor. There are a bazillion ways to live life.
The kids are smart. They are probably so relieved you are your true self. Ask them what they think. I asked mine. What an eye opener. They are not fooled like the adults, into only way thinking.
Check with your heart. If it is singing and happy, then you are on your right path. My joy level has never steered me wrong. And my connection to God is stronger than ever.
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Post by sjg on May 6, 2006 18:12:42 GMT -5
Test Yourself Please answer the following questions honestly.
Do you feel that no matter how hard you try, the "good deeds" you perform for your group are never quite enough? As a result of this do you often feel plagued with feelings of guilt?
What are you motivated by? Is it genuine love for God and the group etc., or is it fear of not meeting the desired standards?
Is questioning the group, or the group leaders, discouraged or frowned upon?
Does the group you belong to believe that it is an elite and exclusive organization which alone has ‘the truth’ and answers to life’s questions? ·
Does the group pour scorn upon, attack, and mock other Christian churches and their interpretation of the Bible?
Is reading any literature critical of the group discouraged? Many cults will warn members not to read anything critical of the group, especially if written by an ex-member (who are called names by the cult such as "apostate", "hardened", or "of the devil" etc.). This is a well known information control technique to stop the member from discovering the clear and documented errors of the cult. Members abilities to think for themselves is effectively disarmed in this way. Instead, they will think more and more as the rest of the group thinks.
Take a look at the way the group looks and acts. Does everyone dress, act, and talk more or less the same? One observer, speaking of his particular involvement with a cult, said that the group encouraged its members "to do everything in exactly the same way - to pray the same, to look the same, to talk the same. This in psychology is a classic example of group conformity. Its purpose is to ensure that no one tries to act differently or become dissident, thus nobody questions the status quo. Does the group discourage association with non-members (except, maybe, for the possibility of converting them to the group)?
Does the group give you "black and white" answers--what the group agrees with is right and what the group disagrees with is wrong? Does everyone in the group believe exactly the same things (i.e. what the group leaders tell them to believe)? Is there no room for individual belief, or opinion even in minor areas?
Does the group wear "two faces"? On the one hand, does it attempt to present itself to potential converts and the public at large as a group of people who are like one large family, full of love and equality? But in actuality, does the group have many members that inwardly feel unfulfilled and emotionally exhausted?
Have you attempted to disable your own God given critical thinking abilities by "shelving" various doubts about the group or group’s teachings etc.
Are those in the group who do not conform to the requirements of the movement’s teaching treated with suspicion, as if they are second-class members?
Does the group tend to withhold certain information from the potential convert? Are the more unusual doctrines of the group not discussed until an individual is more deeply involved in the movement?
Do you feel fearful of leaving the group? Many cults use subtle fear tactics to stop members from leaving. For example, the group may imply that those who leave will be attacked by the Devil, have a nasty accident, or at least not prosper because they have left "the truth".
If you answered "yes" to most of the questions on the previous pages, the group which you are involved with is certainly using manipulative mind control techniques. Now that you know this, what will you do?
1. You need to realize that whatever group you are part of does not have a monopoly on God. For many people in mind control cults, leaving the movement is usually considered the equivalent of leaving God Himself and forfeiting one’s salvation. However, the truth is that there are Christians in all denominations who have found salvation in Christ alone, and not the church group itself. Many people who are trapped in a spiritually abusive religious system often feel as though they would have nowhere else to go even if they did manage to make the break from the group. The answer is found in what Jesus said in the Gospel of Matthew 11:28: "Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest."
2. You need to leave the group. This may be difficult, but by staying you will only continue to be spiritually and mentally abused. You will also be contributing to a system which, in your heart, you know to be wrong. Don’t let pride keep you from leaving the group.
3. Don’t feel as though you will be alone in your decision to leave. There are many individuals who have been in the same situation as yourself. These people come from many different religious groups, but have all been victims of the same dominating mind control techniques. Today, many are living new lives of liberty, security, and hope.
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Post by drainbrainedwashed on May 6, 2006 19:27:31 GMT -5
I do believe he has been brainwashed. It is very subtle, but he was raised in it. I come from a very open minded family and was not raised in it. I "professed" for a time when we first got married but could never buy into all of it. I guess I'm not as brain-washable. Unfortunately though this leaves us with a huge divide in our life. We have children as a common bond, but they are teenagers and are becoming more independent. I know they don't advocate divorce, so I imagine he will stay even after the children are gone, it's just really sad for me to have him verbalize these feelings. It makes it pretty hard to enjoy looking at our wedding pictures knowing he would not choose me again. I just brainwashed myself to believe that I wouldn't be typing this post right now, if it wasn't for you brainwashing others to believe that you know something. You sound ignorant, to me, and even the ignorant can be considered wise when they keep their mouth shut-up. It doesn't sound like you are the same person that you were when your hubby marrried you, so why would you think he'd marry someone that has become as brainwashed as you have become??
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Post by jxr on May 10, 2006 8:15:02 GMT -5
Ahh. We could coin a new perjorative term for the F&W. The Great Brainwashed
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Post by MsMarie on May 10, 2006 8:39:54 GMT -5
All exclusive religions do a fair amount of brainwashing because their power lies in telling people that they have lost their salvation if they leave, ie they are not given an option to leave and choose another way of worship. When I left Catholicism to become a 2x2, I struggled to overcome the teaching that I would now not go to heaven but to hell and was excommunicated. This gradually wore off as the 2x2 way took firm hold for over 20 years.
Now as I look back, the same feeling has to be overcome because the 2x2 teaching about lost salvation is extremely strong and a niggle of fear can remain for quite a while. Some never overcome it and return eventually. It is true brainwashing by every definition. But some struggle through it to enjoy a real freedom, going on to serve God in contentment and enjoying real peace of mind.
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Post by chiquilla on May 10, 2006 8:53:22 GMT -5
To the lady struggling with her husband's rejection: hang in there. I can't imagine how hurt you feel right now. But if you stay true to what you believe and continue to serve God outside the F&W, there is hope. Keep praying for him, and I will too!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2006 9:15:30 GMT -5
To the lady struggling with her husband's rejection: hang in there. I can't imagine how hurt you feel right now. But if you stay true to what you believe and continue to serve God outside the F&W, there is hope. Keep praying for him, and I will too! Another little comment to the lady struggling with what she feels would be her husbands rejection. --- Love is a stronger force that most people understand- Don't be so sure that it wouldn't be powerful enough to "pop up through the pavement". It is one thing to think theoretically -- but another if the actual choice ever had to be made again. If the love is genuine, I'd place my bets on love!!!
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Post by amazed on May 10, 2006 13:11:50 GMT -5
A thought came to mind when reading through this thread. From my experience, many f&ws feel that they would be nothing if they were not a part of the f&w church. How sad this is. God does not hang our salvation or our worth upon being a part of any particular group other than the church of Christ. If we obey the Gospel, we are enough. It's not a group of "believers" that makes it so.
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Post by eeex on May 10, 2006 13:17:08 GMT -5
One must ask why is this.
Answer - they believe that the fellowship is the visible true church of God and that leaving the fellowship is the same as leaving God. And since we are nothing without God, it is very easy to see why they would believe this.
Why would someone leave God if they believed in God?
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Post by none on May 10, 2006 13:19:36 GMT -5
How many current 2x2s on here will admit to this. Its just not true any more.
Let one current 2x2 identify with this today?
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Post by Not brainwashing on May 10, 2006 16:53:39 GMT -5
Ahh. We could coin a new perjorative term for the F&W. The Great BrainwashedThis is an excuse. "I couldn't leave, I was brainwashed" is just another way of saying "I am too damn lazy to think for myself but I need someone to blame for the idiotic decisions I have made."
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Post by beat the censor on May 10, 2006 16:55:50 GMT -5
is the censored version of i d i o t i c
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Post by Guest new to posting on May 11, 2006 13:57:20 GMT -5
Thank you EdgarMassey. Your words have helped. I am trying to live in the present and just believe in love. I will hold on to this thought, that is why I posted here, because I was hoping for encouragement and you have given it.
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Post by just me on Aug 25, 2006 22:50:52 GMT -5
It is sad for me to realize that because I am not professing anymore, my husband would not choose to marry me if he had to do it all over again. Because of his beliefs, he will never leave and claims to love me, but says it is one thing to love another and another thing to choose to live with them. I love the man I married years ago and would do every day over again even though there have been good and bad times. Now I am forced to deal with the knowledge that he would choose someone else if he could do it again. It is sad that religious beliefs can lead a person to this point. My religion teaches me to love, not to divide. Up till a few months ago, I would have thought this post rediculous, I mean c'mon telling your wife you wouldnt choose her again now that you arent of the same religion? BUT now I see how it can happen, I dont know if brainwashing is the correct term, but I cant think of a better one at the moment. I would hope and I will pray that as your walk with GOD strengthens and you continue pray for your hubby ( you are praying for him right? ) , his eyes will be opened to the fallacy of his thinking.
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Post by To None on Aug 26, 2006 6:41:12 GMT -5
re: "they believe that the fellowship is the visible true church of God and that leaving the fellowship is the same as leaving God"
Quote from 'none': How many current 2x2s on here will admit to this. Its just not true any more.
Let one current 2x2 identify with this today? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can identify plenty who think this way. My parents. My in-laws. My former meeting group.
Maybe your country is more advanced than mine in this regard. However, I do not know of one current 2x2 in my country of Oz who believes anything other than I have left the system, therefore I have left God.
Of course, they wont be on here to admit this to you...
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Post by faith on Aug 26, 2006 7:03:25 GMT -5
To none, I am a current 2x2 and although I personally don't believe "that the fellowship is the visible true church of God and that leaving the fellowship is the same as leaving God", almost all of the 'friends" I know do belive this. Most do not know about the history or if some have heard anything about it they don't believe it. They believe it is just a story concocted by bitter exes. I also live in Oz.
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Post by Im there now on Aug 26, 2006 10:53:34 GMT -5
The Bible says we are not to be unequally yoked. Of course it affects a marriage when two people are not on the same wavelength concerning their spiritual life.
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Post by To Guest New to posting on Aug 26, 2006 17:34:38 GMT -5
The Bible says we are not to be unequally yoked with UNBELIEVERS, the same Bible ALSO says, if an unbelieving spousE is content to remain with the believing spouse then they should remain "yoked."
What seems to be the case in the start of this thread is a difference of belief with respect to certain doctrine.
I want to encourage the wife here, pray and study your Bible and seek GOD with all your heart and continue to love your husband inspite of his ..... new attitude. and trust GOD.
Don't try to convince your husband to leave the F&W's. You don't want to be controlling or hindering his spiritual growth. Also you certainly don't want to create an environment of choose "me or them." That would be relegating GOD to the back burner as well as giving the F&W's incredible control over your marraige.
Trust the GOD who brought you two together. He will keep you together if you both want it.
He is amazing!
In His Care
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Post by forever young on Aug 27, 2006 12:30:45 GMT -5
I often think of the verses in the bible that talks of two in the field. one will be taken, the other left. Two people can Go through life married. Everything is wonderful. All kids professing. Everyone loves them. They appear so righteous that everyone thinks they are wonderful. But at the end of their life God knows that what really counts is a personal relationship with him. Do you think that both of these people should go to heaven? they appear OK. You see, what looks good to us can look far different to God. He knows the hearts of men and women. My advice to the lady that started this thread is: Enjoy the marriage to your husband. Tolerate the differences between beliefs. You are together and the past cannot be redone so you or your husband can theorize all you want if this happened or that happened but the fact is you are still together. The only thing that really matters is your personal relationship with God.
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