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Post by ccx on Aug 9, 2006 9:08:38 GMT -5
It seems like weak saints are leaving the fellowship in Iowa rather than make waves there. I don't think it is the workers there (apart from their doctrine) but older friends who are so supportive of the system . It is hard to break the rules on dress and entertainment and escape the gossip machine. I personally know Jeff (from his Indiana days) and considered him to be a nice man.
I believe some of these older families are so hellbent upon preserving the fellowship's old ideas and tendencies that they will not accept any moderation or change.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2006 9:22:39 GMT -5
ccx - wot are these "fellowship's old ideas" that you refer to?
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Post by Zorro on Aug 9, 2006 9:32:13 GMT -5
It seems like weak saints are leaving the fellowship in Iowa rather than make waves there.Riiiiiggghhhhtttt
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Post by happy on Aug 9, 2006 9:43:38 GMT -5
That term "weak saint" needs to be put out on the curb. Anyone with Jesus as their saviour is far from weak. God is the judge, thankfully.
I've enjoyed the discussion here. I can relate to so much of what is being said.
FWIW, I've been told by several workers that this way of fellowship is the ONLY way to heaven. Anyone outside will be lead to the way if God wants them saved. Two of the workers are overseers.
Happy
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Post by GuestS on Aug 9, 2006 11:26:06 GMT -5
It is "tough to profess" in any state!!! It is a lifestyle based on lies and expectations of man. There is NO scriptural basis for a method or a ministry. Jesus said, "I am THE way....THE truth....THE life....NO man comes to the Father but by Me." Do you see any mention of the word "worker" in that verse? ??
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Post by guest5 on Aug 9, 2006 17:53:13 GMT -5
To Happy - Does making 2 of them overseers make whatever was said more correct? I doubt it. Are they supposedly smarter than the others? I doubt it also. They are just humans like the rest taking their duties handling the state's business seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2006 21:39:51 GMT -5
"It seems like weak saints are leaving the fellowship in Iowa rather than make waves there."
I'd hardly call any of them weak- on the contrary, they have shown great courage, love, respect, and tenacity- many of them are learning, contributing to others- those that I know are great people, who are an encouragement to me in Christ.
Karl
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Post by bowhunter on Aug 9, 2006 22:32:12 GMT -5
:oWEAK??!! As lacpastor said,and I have experienced,it takes great stregth,courage,love,etc; and guts(all from God) to walk away from the 'saints' and follow what God lays on your heart.
But you are right - it is (was) difficult to 'profess' in Iowa. We tried making waves - the ripple effect takes time to hit the far shores. Leaving was the most effective avenue for change.
Let freedom ring!!
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Post by happy on Aug 9, 2006 22:41:50 GMT -5
To Happy - Does making 2 of them overseers make whatever was said more correct? I doubt it. Are they supposedly smarter than the others? I doubt it also. They are just humans like the rest taking their duties handling the state's business seriously. In my experience, if the upper management believes strongly in pink shoes, all those below them wear pink shoes.
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Post by been there on Aug 17, 2006 23:36:42 GMT -5
Oh yes - leaving is NOT for the weak. It takes unbelievable strength and courage (and only by God, is it possible). Thanks be to Him for freeing us to learn how to truly worship.
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Post by Gene on Aug 18, 2006 0:27:34 GMT -5
In my experience, if the upper management believes strongly in pink shoes, all those below them wear pink shoes. Yes. I miss that.
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Post by happy on Aug 18, 2006 8:29:37 GMT -5
Gene, It is lime green now, just so you know. ;D Happy
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2006 9:37:07 GMT -5
Happy, about this "That term "weak saint" needs to be put out on the curb" Paul mentioned those who were weaker in faith, and the need to help them. Some in the bible were obviously stronger in faith than others - what is your problem with that?
And this business of pink shoes. Paul laid out the standards of the church, ie moderation in all things, rejecting the fashions of the world, being grave, sober, honest, upright etc. You are not mocking the workers, you are mocking what they read of Paul's doctrine and Jesus' life.
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Post by seekingtruth on Aug 18, 2006 9:57:16 GMT -5
Bert, you're in fine form today. Anyone who disagrees with the workers is a "weak saint" but you wouldn't know about that because you would never dare to do anything less than bow down to the workers even if you, perish the thought, knew you were bowing to just a human.
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Post by The problem on Aug 18, 2006 9:57:25 GMT -5
Happy, about this "That term "weak saint" needs to be put out on the curb" Paul mentioned those who were weaker in faith, and the need to help them. Some in the bible were obviously stronger in faith than others - what is your problem with that?
The problem is that the premise was that just because someone left - they were weak. That's false.
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Post by ex-teenager on Aug 18, 2006 9:59:20 GMT -5
Happy, about this "That term "weak saint" needs to be put out on the curb" Paul mentioned those who were weaker in faith, and the need to help them. Some in the bible were obviously stronger in faith than others - what is your problem with that?The problem is that the premise was that just because someone left - they were weak. That's false. Would you not agree that it could be true? btw, I have not heard of someone leaving and being branded a 'weak saint'.
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Post by las logged out on Aug 18, 2006 10:01:37 GMT -5
You can see Teenager in America everyone gets taken for a ride? No they wouldn't dare try and pull anything in Ireland
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Post by ex-teenager on Aug 18, 2006 10:04:03 GMT -5
You can see Teenager in America everyone gets taken for a ride? No they wouldn't dare try and pull anything in Ireland Im not sure what you mean?
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Post by To Bert on Aug 18, 2006 10:07:51 GMT -5
And this business of pink shoes. Paul laid out the standards of the church, ie moderation in all things, rejecting the fashions of the world, being grave, sober, honest, upright etc. You are not mocking the workers, you are mocking what they read of Paul's doctrine and Jesus' life.
Maybe you can tell us about the standard regarding black stockings. Or do you prefer to pretend that's another bit of history that is better to just forget about and maybe it will go away. Do you honestly feel a group could error so grievously on one issue of "standards" and somehow hit the spiritual bullseye on everything else. The fact is that you still believe in "black stockings" - they just have different forms ( now they look like buns and dresses, among other things).
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Post by Iowa ex on Aug 18, 2006 10:17:35 GMT -5
Would you not agree that it could be true? btw, I have not heard of someone leaving and being branded a 'weak saint'.
I'm from Iowa and know most of the people have left, and wouldn't classify ANY as weak. As far as not hearing of someone leaving being branded as "weak" - just read the first post.
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Post by ex-teenager on Aug 18, 2006 10:20:01 GMT -5
Would you not agree that it could be true? btw, I have not heard of someone leaving and being branded a 'weak saint'. I'm from Iowa and know most of the people have left, and wouldn't classify ANY as weak. As far as not hearing of someone leaving being branded as "weak" - just read the first post. I would'nt classify them as weak either. The first post could have been made up by anyone, ofcourse I've read about 'weak saints' just like I've read the term '2x2' online, but never heard it otherwise.
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Post by regularreader on Aug 18, 2006 10:59:37 GMT -5
Happy, about this "That term "weak saint" needs to be put out on the curb" Paul mentioned those who were weaker in faith, and the need to help them. Some in the bible were obviously stronger in faith than others - what is your problem with that? And this business of pink shoes. Paul laid out the standards of the church, ie moderation in all things, rejecting the fashions of the world, being grave, sober, honest, upright etc. You are not mocking the workers, you are mocking what they read of Paul's doctrine and Jesus' life. Bert, I know you aren't going to like this, but could you PLEASE find the verses that you are getting your ideas from for your second paragraph. I can NOT find any verses about rejecting the fashions of the world. I no longer feel comfortable hearing a statement, such as your post, without comparing it to the scripture for accuracy. It isn't that I don't trust you, but I want to have things correct, right, and scriptural in my mind and heart. I don't want to rely on hearsay or man's ideas. Please quote the verse/verses. About weak saint Tell me how shunning is helping a weak brother. There has been ample discussion on how people have been treated when they leave meetings. Would you please quote the verse for the first paragraph also.
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Post by happy on Aug 18, 2006 21:53:12 GMT -5
Happy, about this "That term "weak saint" needs to be put out on the curb" Paul mentioned those who were weaker in faith, and the need to help them. Some in the bible were obviously stronger in faith than others - what is your problem with that? And this business of pink shoes. Paul laid out the standards of the church, ie moderation in all things, rejecting the fashions of the world, being grave, sober, honest, upright etc. You are not mocking the workers, you are mocking what they read of Paul's doctrine and Jesus' life. First of all, I know there are those weaker and stronger. Is it really fair to label someone as "weak" because of their lack of compliance to outward norms? It is fair to label them as "weak" because they stop attending meetings? No. Get to know them, hear them pray. Some of God's strongest are judged "weakest" by humans. Second....I wasn't talking about shoes in a literal sense. If workers say it is okay to wear tan hose, women wear tan hose and throw out the black. Same with seamed or non seamed stockings and red shoes. (Ah..the shoes again!). When workers said men weren't required to wear hats, men everywhere stopped hat wearing. If they said beards and facial hair are okay or not okay....basically, they set the norms and those norms change. The Bible doesn't. What Jesus taught stands firm and is there for all of us to read. People are judged "hearty" or "weak" based on compliance to the group norms. It is the oddest thing. Happy...barefoot
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Post by HUCK on Aug 19, 2006 14:34:05 GMT -5
Barefoot? Is that pink or red toenail polish? Manicured or sober and upright?
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Post by happy on Aug 19, 2006 16:24:01 GMT -5
French pedicure, Huck. Have you ever known me to be horribly sober? Nah....upright, but not uptight.
Your eyes are going to get stuck midway up one of these times, you know.
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Post by las logged out on Aug 19, 2006 16:27:51 GMT -5
It is good to see the 2x2 error...the 2x2's are not of sound doctrine NOT
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Post by HUCK on Aug 19, 2006 16:42:06 GMT -5
Your eyes are going to get stuck midway up one of these times, you know. Uh....they usually are anyhow....aren't yours centered too?
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Post by happy unplugged on Aug 19, 2006 21:43:39 GMT -5
Huck, Are we bored? LOL.
Centered is good. Stuck mid roll is not.
Happy, unplugged
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