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Post by just me on Aug 8, 2006 16:52:21 GMT -5
1 corinthians 10:13 13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. Now whats this have to do with the posted question?? Just this, perhaps you do have the self-control to abstain from sex, BUT, as it is now ( you two living seperately) you have a built in "out", ergo, when things get too hot, one of you can LEAVE and go home for a cold shower. If you are living together, whats your "out" ?? The quoted verse has two parts to it 1) GOD's promise to us to PROVIDE a way out and 2) WE ARE RESPONSIBLE for seeking and USING that out. just food for thought Also, as for trusting GOD to keep you pure, check out 1 Corinthians 10:9 9 We should not test the Lord, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes. saying GOD will keep us pure and NOT doing your part to AVOID the temptation.................. 1 Corinthians 6: 18-20 18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. Whatever you ultimately decide, go into it with your eyes WIDE open, do NOT do something you will look back on and regret, and keep in mind, someday you may have kids and when they ask you this question, how do you respond? ??
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appearances are just that
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Post by appearances are just that on Aug 8, 2006 18:04:18 GMT -5
IMO, appearances are not something to base your decision on. It seems to me that in our society it is assumed that people dating already have sex before marriage. Our movies, TV shows, music, magazines, etc all tell us this... so why worry about convincing people that you are not having sex when they probably already assume you are??
One other thing: people always toss out the verses that talk about fornication, which is one translation of the Greek word, "porneia", which has a broader definition than simply "sex before marriage".
From Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries:
G4202 πορνεία porneia por-ni'-ah From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication.
So does the bible REALLY say you shouldn't have sex before marriage?
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Post by mrtindrucvionging on Aug 8, 2006 18:15:13 GMT -5
Emily !! ! Have you no forgiveness in your dear dear heart for a man gone and done wrong; ?
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Post by mrtindrucvionging on Aug 8, 2006 18:16:33 GMT -5
The only scripture that I have found that seems to give any direction on this is the 1st Corinthians 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry. In the spirit of the way it is being said here, I wonder if it could be directed at anyone not just the young. If a person feels inclined toward another, let them marry. I would also agree with "witheyesopen" that you need to enjoy this time you have if you can't get married, to do the dating thing. Getting to know a person is a beautiful process. How they react to things you do and how the don't react is sometimes very telling. I would hesitate to rush into any co-habitation situation for any reason whither there is the s e x ual aspect included in the relationship or not. To me there was a reason for the traditions of dating and all in the past, and I don't think we have evolved past the need to know a person better before we marry them. So, please take your time, enjoy the company while dating, learn from her, about her, and don't be afraid to share your desires for the future with her. You will not be disappointed if you do and you marry later, and if you don't get married, you will glad you took the time to know her better. Best of luck. I agree ; enjoy your NON-married time cuz marriage ain't no cakewalk; and some folks are better off single, sex or no sex. ;D
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Post by fornication on Aug 8, 2006 20:52:50 GMT -5
One other thing: people always toss out the verses that talk about fornication, which is one translation of the Greek word, "porneia", which has a broader definition than simply "sex before marriage". There is a simple meaning: illicit sexual intercourse that might be: sex outside of marriage, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with close relatives, intercourse with animals etc. Covers all the bases.
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Post by purity on Aug 8, 2006 22:44:35 GMT -5
I believe you can abstain from sex if you are living together but my thoughts are this... if you move in with your girlfriend/fiance you would be bringing the suspicion on both of your heads. If you want to bring honor to your fiance and keep any hint of stain from her purity (and yours) you wouldn't want to live together.
Believe me... she will love you more for respecting her purity. Whatever the circumstances, living together first isn't worth it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2006 0:46:32 GMT -5
I believe you can abstain from sex if you are living together but my thoughts are this... if you move in with your girlfriend/fiance you would be bringing the suspicion on both of your heads. If you want to bring honor to your fiance and keep any hint of stain from her purity (and yours) you wouldn't want to live together. Believe me... she will love you more for respecting her purity. Whatever the circumstances, living together first isn't worth it. Just a thought -- Joseph was instructed directly by God NOT TO BE CONCERNED about the 'appearance of evil' regarding Marys pregnancy. Jesus was quite clear in his different expressions of aversion for the typical fanatic religious obsession of determining the course of life on the basis of appearance. Another question --- Where is there any Christian indication that any particular moral 'purity' lies in chastity? -- I realize the idea is ultra Victorian as well as fanatical religious -- but a direct mockery of the basics of Christianity!!
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Post by jxr on Aug 9, 2006 7:57:14 GMT -5
Living together without hanky panky? Can you honestly pray "Deliver me not into temptation?" Don't just leave it up to God. Do your part to deliver yourself. And think on this: You are shacking up. Who do you think will accept that you are not having sex? Do you think ANYONE will accept that? Think of the example that you are setting. You are saying one of two things: Fornication is okay or fornication is a sin but I don't care. If you are professing to be a Christian, you are literally taking God's name in vain by giving the impression that you have no respect for his commandments. Don't do it. Isn't shacking up a commitment as in a common-law marriage? I still fail to understand this F&W obsession for legal paperwork where marriage/sex is concerned, whereas there is not any form of certificate to document one's spiritual status (i.e. baptism). Add to that, the willingness to avoid municipality regulation where convention facilites are concerned, and it all smacks of double-standards. Pharisees, anyone?
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Post by Brick on Aug 9, 2006 8:11:16 GMT -5
So does the bible REALLY say you shouldn't have sex before marriage? I hear you plainly. I have heard you many times before. I heard you ask Eve in the garden, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Get thee behind me, Satan! And all who would alter the words of God for their own purposes.
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Post by jxr on Aug 9, 2006 8:23:14 GMT -5
So does the bible REALLY say you shouldn't have sex before marriage? I hear you plainly. I have heard you many times before. I heard you ask Eve in the garden, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Get thee behind me, Satan! And all who would alter the words of God for their own purposes. A photo of brick (a.k.a. Adam)
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Post by Brick on Aug 9, 2006 8:26:30 GMT -5
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Post by A thought on Aug 9, 2006 8:31:43 GMT -5
Isn't shacking up a commitment as in a common-law marriage? In some US states, Colorado comes to mind, a common-law marriage may be established by proving cohabitation and a reputation of being married. In Kansas a man and woman to form a common-law marriage if they have the mental capacity to marry, agree to be married at the present time, and represent to the public that they are married. So if you are of age, move in together, and tell people you are married, you are married.
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Post by hrl on Aug 9, 2006 9:40:07 GMT -5
I believe you can abstain from sex if you are living together but my thoughts are this... if you move in with your girlfriend/fiance you would be bringing the suspicion on both of your heads. If you want to bring honor to your fiance and keep any hint of stain from her purity (and yours) you wouldn't want to live together. Believe me... she will love you more for respecting her purity. Whatever the circumstances, living together first isn't worth it. This is a beautiful, although rare, thought in this day and age, IMO. But, I agree. I think it is entirely possible to abstain from sex. And I think too many people write that off as just 'not an option'. I like the idea of respecting one's purity...that's also almost unheard of in our sex obsessed society. Too many relationships are primarily about sex /physical chemistry / flesh and don't evolve on a higher spiritual level that they should.... Respecting one's purity? Huh? Is that cool? It's way better than COOL, I think.
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Post by hrl on Aug 9, 2006 9:48:54 GMT -5
Living together without hanky panky? Can you honestly pray "Deliver me not into temptation?" Don't just leave it up to God. Do your part to deliver yourself. And think on this: You are shacking up. Who do you think will accept that you are not having sex? Do you think ANYONE will accept that? Think of the example that you are setting. You are saying one of two things: Fornication is okay or fornication is a sin but I don't care. If you are professing to be a Christian, you are literally taking God's name in vain by giving the impression that you have no respect for his commandments. Don't do it. Isn't shacking up a commitment as in a common-law marriage? I still fail to understand this F&W obsession for legal paperwork where marriage/sex is concerned, whereas there is not any form of certificate to document one's spiritual status (i.e. baptism). Add to that, the willingness to avoid municipality regulation where convention facilites are concerned, and it all smacks of double-standards. Pharisees, anyone? It's not just F & W that have standards with regards to premarital sex, etc. Most Christian churches do and actually are quite open about the importance of purity in sermons. Do you realise that there are many churches out there that are far more strict/restrictive[?] than the truth about various things, down to what movies and books you should NOT partake of. In the 'truth', many of these 'things' just aren't talked about by the leaders. It is left up to the parents or individual. Maybe there needs to be more openess, I don't know--maybe that would only add more structure where there is already enough structure. Some people THRIVE on structure. Some wilt under it. Are the workers equipped to objectively give advice about sex/living together/purity, etc? I don't know.--
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Post by hrl on Aug 9, 2006 10:02:11 GMT -5
IMO, appearances are not something to base your decision on. It seems to me that in our society it is assumed that people dating already have sex before marriage. Our movies, TV shows, music, magazines, etc all tell us this... so why worry about convincing people that you are not having sex when they probably already assume you are?? One other thing: people always toss out the verses that talk about fornication, which is one translation of the Greek word, "porneia", which has a broader definition than simply "sex before marriage". From Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries: G4202 πορνεία porneia por-ni'-ah From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication. So does the bible REALLY say you shouldn't have sex before marriage? Here's a verse I found about appearance . :
2Cr 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he [is] Christ's, even so [are] we Christ's.
And so we have verses that say to avoid even the appearance of evil and another verse that exhorts for looking to the outward appearance. Again the importance of CONTEXT affects the message that was intended. And what message do you think was intended? Here's my take: Purity is highlighted and avoiding even the apprearance of evil may help to keep one pure. But focusing only on the outward appearance IS NOT GOOD EITHER, detracts from the inward part of a person, which is truly the most important part.
I believe that society is so appearance-based . You can point the finger at the F&W for having their fair share of Phariseeism, but it's really a reflection of humans in general and if you take a really good look around you at society, you see a far greater obsession with appearance. [/color][/b]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2006 10:07:37 GMT -5
In Sweden probably 85% - 95% of younger committed couples choose to disregard any ritual or formality of legal or cultural ceremony to 'certify' their relationship. -- at least for 5-10 years into family life. Legally, the ceremonial aspect makes very little difference.
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Post by botany on Aug 9, 2006 11:31:03 GMT -5
I read somewhere that "it isn't living together before marriage that raises the chances of divorce, it's dating before marriage". There's a lot of truth to that statement- think about it. Hmmmm... well..... er.... Either this is a joke and I'm not getting it, or I'm just not getting it. Dating before marriage increases the chances for divorce? Where did you read this? --------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL! Yes, quite true. One of those funny, "well, yeah" type of statements! andy
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Post by Narrow Viewpoint on Aug 9, 2006 11:39:14 GMT -5
I read somewhere that "it isn't living together before marriage that raises the chances of divorce, it's dating before marriage". There's a lot of truth to that statement- think about it. Hmmmm... well..... er.... Either this is a joke and I'm not getting it, or I'm just not getting it. Dating before marriage increases the chances for divorce? Where did you read this? --------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL! Yes, quite true. One of those funny, "well, yeah" type of statements! andy From my very narrow viewpoint I have difficulty in grasping the issue of purity. Having sex before the state says you are married or after. Does a signed document make the person pure or impure? This seems like an arbitrary rule that when examined has about as much validity as saying someone does not accept Jesus until they sign papers at some church. Are you living to be accepted by society or are you living according to what you believe is right?
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married a long time
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Post by married a long time on Aug 9, 2006 12:31:43 GMT -5
You might as well have sex if you move in together. People will think you are anyways. Oh, by the way, enjoy sex while it's in the relationship. Like a hot bath, it cools down. Eventually it becomes pretty cold.
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Post by entropy on Aug 9, 2006 14:35:57 GMT -5
You might as well have sex if you move in together. People will think you are anyways. Oh, by the way, enjoy sex while it's in the relationship. Like a hot bath, it cools down. Eventually it becomes pretty cold. Like everything else, its entropy increases over time unless you put energy into it. This is true of the bath, your sex life, the stars, and the pile of rocks behind your house.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2006 14:47:28 GMT -5
You might as well have sex if you move in together. People will think you are anyways. Oh, by the way, enjoy sex while it's in the relationship. Like a hot bath, it cools down. Eventually it becomes pretty cold. Like everything else, its entropy increases over time unless you put energy into it. This is true of the bath, your sex life, the stars, and the pile of rocks behind your house. There are a hundred different aspects of privilege and beauty in a living personal family relationship - intimacy is only one of them. Although time, circumstance and oppurtunity does shift the focus between them -- it must be regarded as a failure and disaster if any aspect of a loving relationship completely loses its luster (and becomes cold and empty). I am becoming quite an old man, but I don't recognize the description in post #46 -- and I hope I never do.
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Post by k on Aug 9, 2006 16:49:35 GMT -5
Maybe you should try calling Dr. Laura
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Post by Point of View on Aug 9, 2006 16:55:54 GMT -5
Maybe you should try calling Dr. Laura Is that to get the hypocritical point of view??
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Post by just me on Aug 9, 2006 17:30:04 GMT -5
Maybe you should try calling Dr. Laura Is that to get the hypocritical point of view?? Is that because she is PRO-family, PRO faith, PRO-life, and would tell him that "living together" is a foolish idea? ??
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appearances are just that
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Post by appearances are just that on Aug 9, 2006 18:23:49 GMT -5
So does the bible REALLY say you shouldn't have sex before marriage? I hear you plainly. I have heard you many times before. I heard you ask Eve in the garden, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Get thee behind me, Satan! And all who would alter the words of God for their own purposes. oye! so i be the devil now... beware then, boys and girls! if ye be havin' sex before ye sign yer papers, I'll be comin' for yer souls! bwa ha ha ha ha!!! *sigh*
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Post by Nope on Aug 9, 2006 21:44:34 GMT -5
Is that to get the hypocritical point of view?? Is that because she is PRO-family, PRO faith, PRO-life, and would tell him that "living together" is a foolish idea? ?? It is because she 'proclaims' to be PRO-family, PRO faith, and PRO-life.
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Post by jxr on Aug 10, 2006 6:49:36 GMT -5
Isn't shacking up a commitment as in a common-law marriage? I still fail to understand this F&W obsession for legal paperwork where marriage/sex is concerned, whereas there is not any form of certificate to document one's spiritual status (i.e. baptism). Add to that, the willingness to avoid municipality regulation where convention facilites are concerned, and it all smacks of double-standards. Pharisees, anyone? It's not just F & W that have standards with regards to premarital sex, etc. Most Christian churches do and actually are quite open about the importance of purity in sermons. Do you realise that there are many churches out there that are far more strict/restrictive[?] than the truth about various things, down to what movies and books you should NOT partake of. In the 'truth', many of these 'things' just aren't talked about by the leaders. It is left up to the parents or individual. Maybe there needs to be more openess, I don't know--maybe that would only add more structure where there is already enough structure. Some people THRIVE on structure. Some wilt under it. Are the workers equipped to objectively give advice about sex/living together/purity, etc? I don't know.--My point is that, by living togther with the intent to get married (so-to-speak) the couple has, in effect, made that commitment to each other and so are de-facto married. Any sex they have after this point is, in my opinion, no longer pre-marital. Fornication, on the other hand, is simply wonton sexual adventures without commitment to the sexual partner.
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Post by hrl on Aug 10, 2006 21:44:03 GMT -5
It's not just F & W that have standards with
My point is that, by living togther with the intent to get married (so-to-speak) the couple has, in effect, made that commitment to each other and so are de-facto married. Any sex they have after this point is, in my opinion, no longer pre-marital.
Fornication, on the other hand, is simply wonton sexual adventures without commitment to the sexual partner. I agree with you about what fornication is. Living together with the intent to marry is one thing, but there are so many people who don't follow that and are not TRULY committed and/or married to each other in essense in their hearts. To me, sexaul immorality is about the wanton/wonton sexual adventures ; ie; sleeping around. I understand that there are some people who have real clinical problems with sexual addictions and that is sad as it is destructive behaviour and should be treated as any other addiction such as drugs or gambling. Also, I feel it is not good for people to just DIVE into intimate relationships just because they just have to have someone in their lives to feel good about themselves. It's good to be alone and to be yourself and to like who you are as a person alone. Too often, though I see people just jumping around from person to person seemingly on some quest to feel good? Really, when we are feeling good about being alone ; that is when the highest quality people seem to enter into our lives. me, just rambling. bye
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