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Post by las logged out on Sept 20, 2007 13:58:19 GMT -5
I have changed my view on Infant baptism I now accept it along with the other ...! For the longest time I never accepted Infant baptism but you can call it a change of heart or call it a revelation if you like..read the denomination Link I also posted on another thread
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Post by las logged out on Sept 21, 2007 9:14:24 GMT -5
I take it no one has a problem then!Fine
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Post by las logged out on Sept 21, 2007 9:49:02 GMT -5
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Post by hawk on Sept 22, 2007 0:40:55 GMT -5
I disagree but you already know that as I have stated on another board. I am getting sick of switching between four boards. Someone get my attention or I'll just go find something else to do like work sudoku. (Currently watching other unrelated boards.)
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Post by think2much on Sept 22, 2007 3:47:49 GMT -5
I have changed my view on Infant baptism I now accept it along with the other ...! For the longest time I never accepted Infant baptism but you can call it a change of heart or call it a revelation if you like..read the denomination Link I also posted on another thread Yep, dunk them little 'uns and get 'em saved while you can, yessiree! Don't want 'em stuck out there in Limbo, now do we?! Personally, I just hang a few cloves of garlic above my door and chant to Playteximus Maximus, the goddess of infant protection, to keep my kids from evil...
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Post by las logged out on Sept 22, 2007 8:10:57 GMT -5
To deny Infant baptism is to deny the power of God as you cannot do anything in any way shape or form to earn your salvation it is a gift from God..It is grace ..my message to the critics is do you not think that God can work in a baby life?Don't you think a baby knows when his/her mother kisses the baby?
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Post by jh62 on Sept 22, 2007 10:01:40 GMT -5
I wonder if there's any instance in the bible where an infant was baptised? Does anyone know?
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Post by las logged out on Sept 22, 2007 14:08:09 GMT -5
I wonder if there's any instance in the bible where an infant was baptised? Does anyone know? No the scriptures don't come right out and say babies were baptised No..but the scriptures leave the implication that several times the whole household was baptised which included the children
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Post by las logged out on Sept 22, 2007 14:12:48 GMT -5
This ex2x2 is sold on Infant baptism after a long long time of an other wise thinking
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Post by las logged out on Sept 22, 2007 14:19:24 GMT -5
The question should perhaps be looked at this way...the bible doesn't say anything against Infant baptism !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2007 3:25:58 GMT -5
Las I must admit to having two minds on this subject.
However, John the Baptist, whom I understand was a bit of an authority on baptism, told the people to "bring forth fruits meet for repentence." This implies a conscious change in lifestyle, a new life, something which is beyongd the capabilities of an infant or new born babe.
Jock was warning the masses that baptism itself would not save them from the wrath to come, but the new life in the Christ to come. There appears to be a "preparation" of mind and spirit associated with baptism, kind of like Stephen with the Ethyopian Eunuch ?
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Post by las logged out on Sept 23, 2007 13:34:38 GMT -5
Las I must admit to having two minds on this subject. However, John the Baptist, whom I understand was a bit of an authority on baptism, told the people to "bring forth fruits meet for repentence." This implies a conscious change in lifestyle, a new life, something which is beyongd the capabilities of an infant or new born babe. Jock was warning the masses that baptism itself would not save them from the wrath to come, but the new life in the Christ to come. There appears to be a "preparation" of mind and spirit associated with baptism, kind of like Stephen with the Ethyopian Eunuch ? I'm sure the baby will realize that repentance isn't a one time thing when older....because even a older person will need repentance all there life long eh? Baptism doesn't save you because of good works? we are saved by grace..and don't get confused with those pharisees because that was the very thing they needed in the first place was repentance which they didn't have John knew that
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Post by las logged out on Sept 23, 2007 13:41:59 GMT -5
Those Pharisees wern't right in the first place they never accepted Jesus to the most part John no doubt knew this...At that time folks could decide if they wanted to be a follower of John or a follower of Jesus John knew he couldn't hold any back who wanted to cross the line
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2007 14:58:12 GMT -5
Las, for me the jury is still out on this issue. It is one of those things that I haven't got around to properly examining yet. I was 2x2 mind on this and the fact that I now attend a Baptist Church hasn't brought up anything that would cause me to study this issue so far.
However, for me, baptism signifies a death to the old life and a resurrection in the new life in Christ, which suggests to me the person being baptised should be of an age they can understand this. However, I've no doubt there are other aspects of this that in time I should consider.
I can't recall where, but somewhere in the NT it is mentioned that children are saved or sanctified by the faithfulness of their parents, even grandparents ? Now for me, that offers an explanation for "whole households being baptised," i.e. children are covered by the faith/faithful acts of their parents (until they reach an age of understanding and responsibility for themselves).
Just my "ram"blings for the moment.
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Post by las logged out on Sept 23, 2007 16:10:24 GMT -5
What are you saying Infant baptism is wrong?
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Post by las logged out on Sept 23, 2007 16:12:34 GMT -5
I never condemed a believers baptism there both alright does anyone know a church that allows both Infant & a believers baptism !Eh I know one Jesus did
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2007 16:45:20 GMT -5
Las, as I said the jury is still out on this issue. I haven't looked into it properly yet. So far I've had no cause to.
My background is 2x2 followed by Baptist Church, both of which support adult baptisms, not infant ones.
At the present time I lean towards this belief, however, due to my overturning many of my other former beliefs (indoctrinations !) in recent times, I do have in mind that the same could occur with this issue in the future.
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Post by las logged out on Sept 23, 2007 17:22:40 GMT -5
The scriptures indicate the whole household was baptised that would include Infants and/or small children along with the adults...Jesus didn't discriminate
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cat
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Post by cat on Sept 23, 2007 19:44:58 GMT -5
Hey, Though I was never in the 2x2's I was heavily influenced by their "doctrine" Yes, I know that's not the proper word for it but Im tired and the brain isnt totally sparking ;D. I believed in the age of accountablility for a long while. Then, slowly over the years I drifted first to the Lutheran Church, then to the Catholic Church. We believe that Baptism is a Sacrament, which is an outward sign of Gods grace. Since we believe in original sin, be believe that Baptism literally washes away that sin....by Gods grace. Not by some mystical mumbo jumbo the Priest does. So if Baptism actually washes away original sin, why not Baptise babies? Why not give them the best start they can have. God gave parents charge over their children. We are resposible for their religious upbringing. We are the ones who are resposible for getting them to Heaven. Again, why not give them the best chance they can have? Since they are Baptised when they are young, we then, in jr. high or High School, have Confirmation. Which is also a Sacrament. But it gives the teen a chance to then proclaim that the Catholic church is where they want to belong. Ok, sorry about giving a church history, but I wanted to give another perspective on infant Baptism. And some times I can prattle on And by no means am I an expert on Catholic apologetics. Christ's Blessings Cat
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 23, 2007 20:08:58 GMT -5
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Post by diet coke on Sept 23, 2007 20:45:08 GMT -5
I would hate to take away from anyone the personal choice of baptism, and hopefully the life-changing new direction it entails. So, if infant baptism precludes a second, more meaningful baptism later, than I guess it's "wrong". But if not, it seems harmless and may cause the parents to take their parenting more seriously, since their child now belongs to God. In other words, I guess it's more of an event for the parents than for the child.
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Post by ScholarGal on Sept 23, 2007 22:22:07 GMT -5
I witnessed an infant baptism at my husband's Presbyterian church this year. The baptism signified a promise by the parents and the church to nurture the children in spiritual faith.
It was a touching ceremony which reminded me of a wedding ceremony. If a couple chooses to marry in the church, they are making a vow of marriage to each other before God. When they bring their infants to the church for baptism, they are making a vow to raise their children in faith before God.
Baptism of adults (or at the age of accountability) has a different purpose. It is a public declaration of personal faith, and an outward ritual that signifies the cleansing provided by Christ.
Personally, I don't believe that either infant or adult baptism is absolutely required for salvation. Instead, it signifies a public profession of faith, or intent to teach faith to a child, before God.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2007 4:29:59 GMT -5
Las, in the parts where it mentions whole households were baptised, I dont think any of them mentions children/infants being part of these households. It is possible there were children/infants, but unless children or infants are mentioned specifically or at least their presence particularly implied, we cannot take it for granted that they were indeed present.
Even if children/infants were part of these households, statements such as "the whole household was baptised" does not necessarily mean every individual (i.e. the children) were baptised, but rather they were covered (sanctified) by the faithfulness of their parents who went through the process of baptism.
Again just my "ram"blings on a subject I have much to learn or re-learn about.
At this stage I would need to be directed to a specific example of a minor being baptised in the scriptures to accept such a thing. However, further research may convince otherwise.
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Post by las logged out on Sept 24, 2007 11:30:56 GMT -5
Hey, Though I was never in the 2x2's I was heavily influenced by their "doctrine" Yes, I know that's not the proper word for it but Im tired and the brain isnt totally sparking ;D. I believed in the age of accountablility for a long while. Then, slowly over the years I drifted first to the Lutheran Church, then to the Catholic Church. We believe that Baptism is a Sacrament, which is an outward sign of Gods grace. Since we believe in original sin, be believe that Baptism literally washes away that sin....by Gods grace. Not by some mystical mumbo jumbo the Priest does. So if Baptism actually washes away original sin, why not Baptise babies? Why not give them the best start they can have. God gave parents charge over their children. We are resposible for their religious upbringing. We are the ones who are resposible for getting them to Heaven. Again, why not give them the best chance they can have? Since they are Baptised when they are young, we then, in jr. high or High School, have Confirmation. Which is also a Sacrament. But it gives the teen a chance to then proclaim that the Catholic church is where they want to belong. Ok, sorry about giving a church history, but I wanted to give another perspective on infant Baptism. And some times I can prattle on And by no means am I an expert on Catholic apologetics. Christ's Blessings Cat I agree
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Post by las logged out on Sept 24, 2007 11:38:34 GMT -5
I witnessed an infant baptism at my husband's Presbyterian church this year. The baptism signified a promise by the parents and the church to nurture the children in spiritual faith. It was a touching ceremony which reminded me of a wedding ceremony. If a couple chooses to marry in the church, they are making a vow of marriage to each other before God. When they bring their infants to the church for baptism, they are making a vow to raise their children in faith before God. Baptism of adults (or at the age of accountability) has a different purpose. It is a public declaration of personal faith, and an outward ritual that signifies the cleansing provided by Christ. Personally, I don't believe that either infant or adult baptism is absolutely required for salvation. Instead, it signifies a public profession of faith, or intent to teach faith to a child, before God. I agree...I say that if you are baptised as a adult thats fine but if you are baptised as a baby or younger person there be no need to be rebaptised as adult only unless the individual insists upon it..
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Post by more thots on Sept 24, 2007 15:20:39 GMT -5
Noone really wants to discuss this subject anyways. But if the subject is whether or not the doctrine or teaching is in line with correct doctrine, I would error on the side of safely following the correct teaching put forth in scripture, that is the order of believing first of all, and then making the request to be baptized by the proper method, (such as the example of the eunuch and Phillip). Thus to believe first and then to become baptized as we see in Jesus example, when Jesus asked John to baptize Himself in order to fulfil righteousnesses.
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Post by las logged out on Sept 24, 2007 16:39:34 GMT -5
Noone really wants to discuss this subject anyways. But if the subject is whether or not the doctrine or teaching is in line with correct doctrine, I would error on the side of safely following the correct teaching put forth in scripture, that is the order of believing first of all, and then making the request to be baptized by the proper method, (such as the example of the eunuch and Phillip). Thus to believe first and then to become baptized as we see in Jesus example, when Jesus asked John to baptize Himself in order to fulfil righteousnesses. I know Infant baptism is a tough one to see but I'm sticking to my guns
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Post by las logged out on Sept 24, 2007 16:41:01 GMT -5
Infant baptism stands cause you cannot earn your salvation anyway
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