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Post by Mark my words on Sept 7, 2007 13:12:01 GMT -5
Lyle Schober probably thought that telling the friends about Tim Severud and sending a letter about the situation to the friends was a good idea.
Mark my words: It wasn't.
I'm sure he thought he was doing what was best but he should have thought it through a little more before he took action.
Now don't misunderstand me. I am not defending Tim. I am simply objecting to the way the workers handled the situation once Tim was in custody.
What Tim did was wrong, and the authorities have him in their custody now. Once Tim was in custody, the workers should have dropped the issue. But no, instead they decided to make Tim a public spectacle. As a result of this, all kinds of problems appear on the horizon:
Hundreds of the friends that didn't know, and didn't need to know, about Tim now know. Now they're curious about something that is not edifying to their souls and, for many, is something that will spur them to start asking questions and searching the internet. Eventually, they will end up learning way more about the Truth than is necessary. Their lives will become a poisoned mess, fraught with pointless debates, quarrels, and controversies like those on this website.
This is so sad and it's going to backfire. Mark my words.
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_
Junior Member
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Post by _ on Sept 7, 2007 13:12:55 GMT -5
troll
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arlis
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by arlis on Sept 7, 2007 13:26:52 GMT -5
" Eventually, they will end up learning way more about the Truth than is necessary."
Are you saying that there are some "false" things about the so-called "Truth" ? People may become enlightened as to what is really "true" and that will be a blessing. Remember, if something is "truth" it can withstand scrutiny of the greatest measure. So if you are so sure that you are in "Truth", why would you be afraid of people getting knowledge? Ever hear of the days when only the priests were allowed to read/own the bible? Is there a similarity here?
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Post by Ken Coolidge on Sept 7, 2007 13:34:42 GMT -5
Eventually, they will end up learning way more about the Truth than is necessary. Their lives will become a poisoned mess, fraught with pointless debates, quarrels, and controversies like those on this website.
LISTEN TO YOURSELF
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 7, 2007 13:48:56 GMT -5
Mark My Words: Your ignorance makes me sick. Who knows how many other girls/boys out there have been abused and no one would ever know unless it was fully disclosed what TS did. These children and their families will need psychological help. By you denying them the right to know, you are denying them the right to receive help. Either you don't have kids, or you're just trying to stir the pot.
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Post by MMW on Sept 7, 2007 13:57:27 GMT -5
Are you saying that there are some "false" things about the so-called "Truth" ? That's an oxymoron. True according to you. Yes but bad rumors last forever too. I have a problem with rumors, innuendo, and unsubstantiated claims, not knowledge. Stop changing the subject.
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Post by MMW on Sept 7, 2007 14:00:04 GMT -5
Mark My Words: Your ignorance makes me sick. Who knows how many other girls/boys out there have been abused and no one would ever know unless it was fully disclosed what TS did. These children and their families will need psychological help. By you denying them the right to know, you are denying them the right to receive help. Tell the families that need to know. Don't tell the families that don't. Hundreds of people don't need to know. Just a handful do. I don't need kids to know right from wrong.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 7, 2007 14:06:00 GMT -5
Mark My Words: Your ignorance makes me sick. Who knows how many other girls/boys out there have been abused and no one would ever know unless it was fully disclosed what TS did. These children and their families will need psychological help. By you denying them the right to know, you are denying them the right to receive help. Tell the families that need to know. Don't tell the families that don't. Hundreds of people don't need to know. Just a handful do. I don't need kids to know right from wrong. How do YOU know the families who need to know? They sent letters to the homes where TS had been in the field because they DON"T know who else he may have molested. If you were in that field and you had a young daughter... would YOU want to know?
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 7, 2007 14:10:08 GMT -5
MMW said: Remember, if something is "truth" it can withstand scrutiny of the greatest measure. Yes but bad rumors last forever too.
The fact that he is jail and has confessed is NOT A RUMOR!
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Post by Scott Ross on Sept 7, 2007 14:12:42 GMT -5
Hey MMW,
There isn't much that gets me upset around these boards, but perhaps you missed something in Lyle's message that was really obvious to me (since I was expecting it)
I've also learned that dialing 911 doesn't always get the help you want. I told the man who answered that I had a child abuse case to report. (Different abuser) He asked a couple of questions and then said he would have a deputy call me in thirty to forty minutes. I'm still waiting for that call also. So we do what we feel is right and don't always get much response. Hopefully this is not always the case.
If this wasn't being dealt with the way Lyle has been dealing with it, would this have been brought in to the open?
And what about all the emails I have from those who are professing who are glad that Lyle is dealing with this in the manner that he is?
What about the other workers who are applauding his efforts from the sidelines? (This includes sister workers who also have suffered from being molested...)
You are full of crap, and are either a troll trying to stir things up, or you have your head stuffed up your butt so far that you are going to need a windowectomy. (they put a pane of glass in your stomach so you can see where you are going.
Scott
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Post by Hmmmmmm on Sept 7, 2007 14:14:31 GMT -5
MMW,
Lets just say that everyone needs to know what is going on. It will create a whole new environment within the fellowship. No one will want to be even suspected of doing such a thing. If they have thoughts toward that kind of thing, they should leave the work and get help. Everyone needs to know about these kind of people not just the workers. It will stop a lot of things from happening.
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Post by Reader on Sept 7, 2007 14:18:34 GMT -5
Thanks Scott for pointing that out... it registered with me... and I was just sitting here wondering when we would be hearing about that one.
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Post by MMW on Sept 7, 2007 14:19:23 GMT -5
How do YOU know the families who need to know? The families who need to know are the families who have children who were victimized. That was overkill. I guess it would have made to much sense to ASK Tim who his other victims are (if he had any). After all, he is cooperating with the authorities. He turned himself in. If she was victimized? Yes. If she wasn't victimized? No. Look: I'm not saying that what they did wasn't effective. It works alright, it's just overkill, as in to much. It should have been thought out a little more carefully. The way it was handled was like killing a cockroach with a shotgun and in the end there will be a price to pay. A lot more people are going to be hurt now.
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Post by MMW on Sept 7, 2007 14:20:37 GMT -5
MMW said: Remember, if something is "truth" it can withstand scrutiny of the greatest measure. Yes but bad rumors last forever too. The fact that he is jail and has confessed is NOT A RUMOR!I was talking about the rumors on this website. Stop taking me out of context.
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Post by wa1nate on Sept 7, 2007 14:24:51 GMT -5
Hundreds of the friends that didn't know, and didn't need to know, about Tim now know. Now they're curious about something that is not edifying to their souls and, for many, is something that will spur them to start asking questions and searching the internet. Eventually, they will end up learning way more about the Truth than is necessary. Their lives will become a poisoned mess, fraught with pointless debates, quarrels, and controversies like those on this website. This is so sad and it's going to backfire. Mark my words. This has to be a troll post. Nobody in their right mind can possibly think that notifying families who might have been affected by a child predator is a bad thing.
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Post by as I c it on Sept 7, 2007 14:38:04 GMT -5
Mark my words,
Your attitude is "what is wrong" within our church. And your attitude is what is causing the internet to "be the place to come"--for all those who desire honesty to exist within them: and honesty within the church.
Your attitude says: "Silence it. Stuff it back in". And people have--until the REAL TRUTH--if "forbidden" to be spoken--and "known"!
And the believers (and church) get "sickly" from it....
"Niceness" is not "honesty". "Niceness" is simply "surface". And your idea of keeping everything "nice" and "clean" looking (on the outside) is what Christ was against.
Honesty IS HONESTY. And sometimes it isn't nice--it just "is".
That's life! Learn to deal with the truth of it!
Lyle did what was right! And by him doing what was right--he'll prevent others (who also would have been innocent and trusting of Tim) from having their love and trust betrayed--and from a terrible experience they'd have had to have dealed with--for the rest of their lives.
Plus--his actions sent forth a message to all other predators who may exist within our fellowship--and who may have thought (if they chanced to get caught) that they'd simply be sent to another field (where they could then carry on with their dark and secret activities).
"Perfect love casts out fear". And as long as there exists a "See not/speak not/hear not/attitude within our church--where we CANNOT "know" the real truth--or else--attitude...we'll be run by fear: and burying "truth".
I have faith in our church. And faith in our believers. And faith in our workers. And faith--in all of us--to be a strong and good church--in spite of any (distasteful) truth.
Lovers of truth: and lovers of God--who are willing to obey him--need not fear the outcome of truth. Or of controversies. Or debates.
They'll still keep their spirits right. And still want unity and peace---even as they seek to know and to grow in God's truth.
God--wants reality. Not an image of it. And if all those things that you mentioned give us that reality...and we have to grow more Christ-like to deal with it...so be it!
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 7, 2007 14:41:03 GMT -5
The families who need to know are the families who have children who were victimized.
The child is not going to come out and tell you what happened unless you ask them. Usually they are coerced into keeping it "secret".
That was overkill.
I guess it would have made to much sense to ASK Tim who his other victims are (if he had any). After all, he is cooperating with the authorities. He turned himself in.
You think Tim would shoot himself in the foot and list off any other kids he may have abused? I understand he only turned himeself in AFTER the abuse was already reported.
If she was victimized? Yes. Again, you wouldn't know unless you got a letter. If she wasn't victimized? No. Again, you wouldn't know unless you got a letter.
Look: I'm not saying that what they did wasn't effective. It works alright, it's just overkill, as in to much. It should have been thought out a little more carefully. The way it was handled was like killing a thingyroach with a shotgun and in the end there will be a price to pay. A lot more people are going to be hurt now.[/quote]
It is better for the families who have been hurt by TS to know now sooner than later.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 7, 2007 14:42:20 GMT -5
MMW said: Remember, if something is "truth" it can withstand scrutiny of the greatest measure. Yes but bad rumors last forever too. The fact that he is jail and has confessed is NOT A RUMOR!I was talking about the rumors on this website. Stop taking me out of context. What are the rumors about TS on this board that are not already in the police report?
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Post by MMW on Sept 7, 2007 14:48:23 GMT -5
Hey MMW, There isn't much that gets me upset around these boards, but perhaps you missed something in Lyle's message that was really obvious to me (since I was expecting it) I've also learned that dialing 911 doesn't always get the help you want. I told the man who answered that I had a child abuse case to report. (Different abuser) He asked a couple of questions and then said he would have a deputy call me in thirty to forty minutes. I'm still waiting for that call also. So we do what we feel is right and don't always get much response. Hopefully this is not always the case. If this wasn't being dealt with the way Lyle has been dealing with it, would this have been brought in to the open? There are more than two ways he could have handeled it. There are several, maybe dozens. Some would have been appropriate, some would have not. Some would have been overkill, others would have not. Have you thought maybe they're just happy that Lyle is dealing with it AT ALL? Remember the precedent, supposedly according to rumors, is to NOT deal with it. It's no surprise that some are happy. If they really are professing, maybe they are happy with what they've been told and won't go digging on their own. But what about the ones you don't hear from that do go digging? I feel sorry for them. And here's one for you: What about the other friends and workers who are NOT applauding his efforts from the sidelines and are NOT happy with how it's being handled? Remember no matter what you do there's always someone that will love it. A lot of people supported what Hitler did and that didn't make him right. Awww how sweet and kind the Christian behavior here! Wow. Is it so hard for you people to believe that someone doesn't agree with you? Now I'm a troll? I thought this was a discussion board, not a shout-you-down-with-our-dogma board. Maybe I should just leave. More of that wonderful Christian kindness from someone telling the friends what they should believe.
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Post by MMW on Sept 7, 2007 14:49:17 GMT -5
This has to be a troll post. Nobody in their right mind can possibly think that notifying families who might have been affected by a child predator is a bad thing. I agree but I don't see anyone here advocating that.
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Post by MMW on Sept 7, 2007 14:53:54 GMT -5
Mark my words, Your attitude is "what is wrong" within our church. And your attitude is what is causing the internet to "be the place to come"--for all those who desire honesty to exist within them: and honesty within the church. Your attitude says: "Silence it. Stuff it back in". And people have--until the REAL TRUTH--if "forbidden" to be spoken--and "known"! And the believers (and church) get "sickly" from it.... "Niceness" is not "honesty". "Niceness" is simply "surface". And your idea of keeping everything "nice" and "clean" looking (on the outside) is what Christ was against. Honesty IS HONESTY. And sometimes it isn't nice--it just "is". That's life! Learn to deal with the truth of it! Lyle did what was right! And by him doing what was right--he'll prevent others (who also would have been innocent and trusting of Tim) from having their love and trust betrayed--and from a terrible experience they'd have had to have dealed with--for the rest of their lives. Plus--his actions sent forth a message to all other predators who may exist within our fellowship--and who may have thought (if they chanced to get caught) that they'd simply be sent to another field (where they could then carry on with their dark and secret activities). "Perfect love casts out fear". And as long as there exists a "See not/speak not/hear not/attitude within our church--where we CANNOT "know" the real truth--or else--attitude...we'll be run by fear: and burying "truth". I have faith in our church. And faith in our believers. And faith in our workers. And faith--in all of us--to be a strong and good church--in spite of any (distasteful) truth. Lovers of truth: and lovers of God--who are willing to obey him--need not fear the outcome of truth. Or of controversies. Or debates. They'll still keep their spirits right. And still want unity and peace---even as they seek to know and to grow in God's truth. God--wants reality. Not an image of it. And if all those things that you mentioned give us that reality...and we have to grow more Christ-like to deal with it...so be it! I used to look up to you. You and the other pseudo friends on this website and the exes all make me sick. I'm tired of being ganged up on so I'm gone. Good riddance. (Let this be a warning to any in the future who would dare bring a different opinion than the accepted dogma to this website.)
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 7, 2007 14:57:05 GMT -5
MMW said: It's no surprise that some are happy. If they really are professing, maybe they are happy with what they've been told and won't go digging on their own. But what about the ones you don't hear from that do go digging? I feel sorry for them.
Yes, truth hurts but everyone has the right to know.
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Post by Scott Ross on Sept 7, 2007 15:05:24 GMT -5
Howdy again, I told my son the same thing concerning a windowectomy. We got a big laugh out of it. I'm full of crap myself on occasion, so don't take it too personally. Please point us all to a post where I told ANYBODY what they should believe. I do share with people here what I believe. My email is bescottross@aol.com So far there have been no emails from anyone upset with my actions concerning this matter, or who have anything but praise for what Lyle has done. Feel free to email me -anyone- to let me know what you think, or post it here on the TMB. Scott
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ann
Senior Member
Jesus did NOT say follow people .. He said follow ME!
Posts: 267
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Post by ann on Sept 7, 2007 15:15:14 GMT -5
MMW: You are pathetic! Living in a dream world of outside perfection! God could care less about your image or your groups of right hairdos, right attire and pious workers preying on children and defenseless women. Those of you who protect those workers are in dire need of hearing REAL truth of Jesus Christ. God looking at your heart and every heart in your group. Is He proud of what he sees?
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Post by Peacemaker on Sept 7, 2007 15:23:57 GMT -5
Hey MMW, There isn't much that gets me upset around these boards, but perhaps you missed something in Lyle's message that was really obvious to me (since I was expecting it) I've also learned that dialing 911 doesn't always get the help you want. I told the man who answered that I had a child abuse case to report. (Different abuser) He asked a couple of questions and then said he would have a deputy call me in thirty to forty minutes. I'm still waiting for that call also. So we do what we feel is right and don't always get much response. Hopefully this is not always the case. If this wasn't being dealt with the way Lyle has been dealing with it, would this have been brought in to the open? And what about all the emails I have from those who are professing who are glad that Lyle is dealing with this in the manner that he is? What about the other workers who are applauding his efforts from the sidelines? (This includes sister workers who also have suffered from being molested...) You are full of crap, and are either a troll trying to stir things up, or you have your head stuffed up your butt so far that you are going to need a windowectomy. (they put a pane of glass in your stomach so you can see where you are going. Scott Hi Scott You make a lot of sense here and I totally agree with you. It seems to me that for some people whatsoever the workers do is wrong; they are darn if they do and darn if they dont. 'Mark my word' is probably trying to stir the pot.
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Post by as i c it on Sept 7, 2007 15:59:19 GMT -5
MMW, I apologize : I came on too strong with my reaction, and spoke too strongly against you. Are you familiar with those old-fashioned pin-ball machines? Where you'd hit the silver ball and then have to try to get it pass all the silver pegs (obstacles) before you could get it to a certain spot??? Well, sometimes, that's how I feel when it comes to speaking the truth--within the truth--about certain "forbidden" topics. Like: I'm the ball (trying to openly and freely discuss my feelings on those topics) and running into (those invisible) "pegs"--obstacles--which stop me. I don't think everyone has to agree with me. But I'd like the freedom to just discuss and explore and look for the truth of it: and say what I'd like....without feeling "the cringe" (which says: "Don't go there!!!") (I guess that's what you wanted too... :-[when you expressed yourself here... ) That's what I was really reacting to...(And not you--personally--as a poster....although, I made the mistake of saying...in effect...that it was "you"). And you got the effect of all my pent-up emotions... I'm sorry. I deliberately make it a point not to attack another believer in our church--and I just violated the principle of mine by attacking "you", in such a way. Please forgive me. My reaction is against the wall of silence. Not you, personally. And, you're quite right...it will (probably) create many more questions (and disturbances) within...for many... But I see that as good. And bringing "new life" to those within our church. Whether you stay or go, please forgive me. I did wrong unto you. And that's a big mistake!
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Post by nitro on Sept 7, 2007 16:24:06 GMT -5
Life is filled with emotion. Some here including myself tend to hold it out so others can see.I think that means wearing it on our sleeves. Anyway this song I sent to a fellow member and if you close your eyes and listen to the words as ic it and those who have felt this way GOD IS GOOD. FULL OF MERCY AND GRACE. nitro aka tinhead www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybv_z4_6pi4&NR=1
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 7, 2007 17:00:31 GMT -5
I apologize as well..... its a sore subject for me so I need to keep my emotions in check. We are all entitled to our opinions. I'm sorry.
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