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Post by Buckie on Sept 6, 2007 19:53:51 GMT -5
If young people don't see the logic to a rule, it is going to be harder to enforce the unwritten rules on a better educated generation. The old "worker talks" and excommunications (unable to take part in the meetings) stuff may fall by the wayside. Especially if young people start bolting the group in larger numbers. And a better educated clergy will finally stop telling people who they can marry, what they cannot have in their home etc. Trying to enforce some old English dress code may disappear as well.
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Post by jrmemberv on Sept 6, 2007 20:02:37 GMT -5
If young people don't see the logic to a rule, it is going to be harder to enforce the unwritten rules on a better educated generation. The old "worker talks" and excommunications (unable to take part in the meetings) stuff may fall by the wayside. Especially if young people start bolting the group in larger numbers. And a better educated clergy will finally stop telling people who they can marry, what they cannot have in their home etc. Trying to enforce some old English dress code may disappear as well. I believe that day is here now.
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Post by controlled on Sept 6, 2007 23:46:42 GMT -5
The workers do not control the flock The workers do not control the flock The workers do not control the flock
<I'm sorry, I forgot what the workers told me to write next> - sheesh the same ole sorry stuff posted here - will any of you ever decide to live your own life?
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savedbyblood
Junior Member
Eventually we'll figure it all out!
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Post by savedbyblood on Sept 7, 2007 1:49:05 GMT -5
If young people don't see the logic to a rule, it is going to be harder to enforce the unwritten rules on a better educated generation. The old "worker talks" and excommunications (unable to take part in the meetings) stuff may fall by the wayside. Especially if young people start bolting the group in larger numbers. And a better educated clergy will finally stop telling people who they can marry, what they cannot have in their home etc. Trying to enforce some old English dress code may disappear as well. Jesus Christ never complained of the way any of His disciples were dressed. Jesus traveled quite a distance to attend a wedding and must have approved of the couple because He never said anything against them.
Nothing in a home can defile us. We can be defiled by many things be they TV's, Radio's, Computers, Refrigerators, or Rum and Coke if we allow! Refrigerators you ask? Yes, if we allow this instrument of the devil to tempt us to eat too much of the foods that are preserved and stored there we can became obese, cause high blood pressure, diabetes, elevated cholesterol and early death of the "Temple not Built with Hands."The workers do not control the flock The workers do not control the flock The workers do not control the flock <I'm sorry, I forgot what the workers told me to write next> - sheesh the same ole sorry stuff posted here - will any of you ever decide to live your own life? The Workers will and should always control the flock. Jesus did no less with His own Flock; disciples and apostles. Jesus was the "Good Shepherd" who did not see need for heavy handed tactics to control His Flock. It may be unfortunate that some of the modern shepherds have allowed their power and position to go to their heads somewhat and must soon needs look into themselves and reflect on the way they push rather than lead.
This can come about but it will take patience on the part of the offended. We must live by example and show to them the True Love in Christ which has been somehow pushed aside in the Work by some in favor of strict adherence to tradition not backed by scripture and logic.
All ministers at some time will speak some things which not everybody in the congregation will agree with or care to hear. This is because every Christian does have their own right to try the Spirit, and if we agreed with everything our local minister told us what need would there be to read and search the Word of God in the Bible to increase our Faith?Please understand this. Our Flock, any Flock can exist without the Sheepdogs (Workers) but does need a Shepherd (Jesus) to thrive. From Wikipedia: Sheep flocking behavior is so prevalent in some English breeds that special names apply to the different roles sheep play in a flock. One calls a sheep that roams furthest away from the others an outlier, this sheep ventures further away from the safety of the flock to graze, due to a larger flight zone or a weakness that prevents it from obtaining enough forage when with the flock, while taking a chance that a predator, such as a wolf, will attack it first because of its isolation.
Another sheep, the bellwether, which never goes first but always follows an outlier, signals to the others that they may follow in safety. When it moves, the others will also move.
"Sheep are quite intelligent creatures and have more brainpower than people are willing to give them credit for."Peace in Him, SBB
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Post by Never on Sept 7, 2007 4:04:33 GMT -5
Never... The workers will never stop trying to control the flock... Need to fit the status quo.. Need conformity We all just need to fit it...
But it could be worse
You could believe that an an evil alien dictator from another planet froze millions of aliens, and then dropped them into the earth volcanoes, and then blew them up with H bombs. When the alien souls tried to escape the evil alien dictator would not let them, and so stopped them using soul catchers. Forcing them to live their lives out on this planet. The live on tormenting humans to this day with bad feelings.
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Post by Sheepgoneastray on Sept 9, 2007 22:17:44 GMT -5
They probably won't ever stop TRYING to control the flock but they are losing control of some of the flock!
If any of you have ever tried to herd sheep you'd know that once you have one or two sheep go astray that they rest of the flock starts getting restless and they are harder and harder to keep from following the ones that have taken off another direction!!
The ones that don't follow are usually too old or sick to have enough energy to "stray"!
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 10, 2007 6:23:00 GMT -5
No dictatorship has ever fallen without the peons finally rebelling and utterly refusing to go along with the dictator.
IMO, that's also when the workers control will be eliminated...when the friends refuse to do their commands, be at their beck and control. Look at the black stockings. They stopped when the women refused to wear them any more. When did the black cars stop? When the friends bought other color cars and drove them. When did the ban on red and white shoes and sandals for women stop? When the women started wearing them anyway.
Mostly, it was the young folks who started going these things...they pave the way with their "rebellion."
This is how the long hair as well as buns will go away also--when the women refuse to go along with it anymore. And some are doing this...! I give them a standing ovation!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2007 6:42:46 GMT -5
words of a dictator:
"… the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works" (1 Timothy 2:8-10).
"Do not let your adornment be merely outward-arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel-rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God" (1 Peter 3:3-4).
Paul the apostle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2007 6:44:17 GMT -5
Re color within Godliness...
The biblical period spanned Sumerian, Hebrew, Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek and Roman cultures. The dress code for people “professing Godliness” was neither archaic nor fashionable, but dignified, modest and moderate - irrespective of how this was expressed.
Thus people could dress in varying ways, yet maintain the same standard. For instance, the veil was a symbol of modesty in the days of Rebecca, but there was no mention of it being worn by devout and modest women in later biblical periods. A shaved head was a sign of respect in the days of Elisha, at other times it symbolized shame.
Both Christians and their detractors often misunderstand this.
Dress was to be without sexual competition; ostentatious display or “costly array.” For instance, a Jewish woman’s symbol of moderation was a plain single-piece dress called a kuttónet; sometimes with a simlâ (mantle) covering her shoulders. In Ephesus, a Greco Roman city, moderate dress was most likely a plain tunic or toga. Married women usually wore a long dress called a stola.
Appearance is considered important because it provides social meaning. An example: in biblical times bright colors symbolized wealth or status. Dyes were expensive and limited in range. In the 20th century synthetic dyes gave rise to an abundance of bright and colorful clothing. Thus colors now carry considerably less social meaning.
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Post by Ram on Sept 10, 2007 6:53:16 GMT -5
If you knew sheep... you could see the correlation.
The seep follow the shepherd, Jesus.... you can't herd sheep... they follow.
Those that are on the outside edge looking for greener pastures, go jumping into the thicket... and others close by who are not looking at the shepherd nor listening for his voice, follow. These are the ones that say we are blindly following the wrong shepherd. They then call back to the others.... hey come see what I found.... it is so good... it is better than anything you have....
And of course they are right... it is green... it is nourished by the same ground from which we graze from... and it feeds them. And don't forget they are free. They don't have to look like sheep anymore... so off they go... frolicking in the rain and the sunshine and in the night.
I still enjoy the protection of the fold... and love sitting at the feet of the master listening to his word. The shepherd is still faithful in feeding and comforting so I am staying close to him.
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Post by OKOK on Sept 10, 2007 7:36:02 GMT -5
words of a dictator: "… the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works" (1 Timothy 2:8-10). "Do not let your adornment be merely outward-arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel-rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God" (1 Peter 3:3-4). But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.Paul the apostle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2007 7:45:37 GMT -5
quote - "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."
Ah yes, the old misreading of the bible trick! Was this something about David having the tenth century's equivalent of studs, mohawk and tats? Or was it about David's modesty, physique and social rank?
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Post by freespirit on Sept 10, 2007 8:32:22 GMT -5
Maybe they will stop when they realize they do not have to--that they can let God be God.
Or maybe some will never stop trying. I certainly know control freaks in every area of my life from work groups to play groups to social groups--and they aren't any more pleasant to be around on the PTA than they are on the convention grounds. JMO of course.
Cherie--I agree that things will change about the dress code (and other matters too for that matter) when enough men and women start standing up for what they believe--and stop standing up for what they do not. It will change when they take faith and use their courage to go with God instead of being afraid of eyebrows and wagging tongues. I don't think it has to come from being "rebellious", but about surrendering ourselves to God and letting Him handle the battle.
I know many women--have even spoken with older sister workers, etc--who don't believe that skirts are the end-all-be-all. I've even heard (unconfirmed) rumors that the sister workers in China wear pants. The vast majority of the professing women I know (I live in a city) wear pants at appropriate pants-wearing time--like, say, mowing the yard, trimming trees, ice-skating, horseback-riding, etc. They don't dress like freaks to go to the grocery store or to work.
But, what I also see is that when we get together with a group of other professing women--we revert back to the skirt. We use all sorts of excuses to justify our behavior such as "we don't want to offend people," "we don't want to cause waves," "we don't want to stand out." blah, blah, blah.
I don't buy it. Here's my thoughts on the excuses we use:
Everything we do or say is going to offend SOMEbodySOMEwhere, so we better be going to God to figure out what is best on how to live our own lives. Jesus offended plenty of people. It wasn't intentional, but all the same, He didn't stop living His life the way God told Him to just because some people got their panties in a wad. I think that if we are wearing pants to intentionally offend, then our motives get out of whack because we are STILL worrying more about what other people think than what God thinks. But if we are wearing them because we are enjoying the freedom we have in Christ--well, then that's a whole different ballgame.
On causing waves: No, we don't want to cause waves. But sometimes when we're just following Jesus, waves happen. That's what happened to the disciples when they went out in the boat--they were doing what Jesus told them to do. But... Jesus is well able to calm any seas. He's able to see us safe on our journey.
On not standing out: There is NOTHING modest--meaning MODERATE--about wearing the jean skirt, pantyhose, bobbie socks and tennis shoes bun cultish looking costume. It's freakish. It's weird. It's worrying more about the outside than the inside.
Bert quoted the verses...and, reading them, it's easy to see there is no scriptural basis for one hole or two in the bottom of a garment. Those verses distinctly speak AGAINST the arranging of hair and fussing with clothing--encouraging us instead toward inner works. Dressing like a weirdo is way too much "long robes in the marketplace" (luke 20) in my peabody brain. Many of us (myself included) just don't always want to face the critique and scorn of the holier-than-thou crowd. It's easier to hide in our little hole (wearing our pants to an outing with our kid but taking them off to go to convention preps where we will be doing an equal amount of bending, stretching, etc so that wearing jeans would be more appropriate attire) than it is to truly stand firm in our beliefs.
As for me, I just keep on praying for a more Christ centered vision for myself and the rest of us too. I'm trying to do what God puts on my heart and relax into His hand.
I think temperance is what we really need a lot of times in dealing with the control freaks of the world, so we will know when to bend and when to stay upright.
Just some random thoughts here.
peace to all, freespirit
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love it or leave it
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Post by love it or leave it on Sept 10, 2007 8:56:20 GMT -5
The Workers job is to control the flock! It is my opinion that if a person doesn't like the structure of a particular organization that he should not join that organization. I realize, however, that there are those who join organizations for the fellowship with hopes of being able to effect change within said organization. I say, if you like how they do things, then join! If you don't like their set-up then leave, or don't join in the first place. I was born and raised in the 2x2 cult. When I reached the age of dissension, I was told that even though some of the rules weren't exactly scriptural, that I should comply with them in order not to be a "stumbling block" to those who felt that the rules were important. What a load, eh? The price you pay for fellowship with the group is conformity with the group's norms (which we all know vary depending on location and generation ). Either accept the terms or don't! Why try to be a backseat driver? It doesn't work that way. The Workers are the "Sayers" and the Friends are the "Doers". Fill you chosen role within the organization or resign your position. I repudiate the authority of the workers over my life. Their opinions have no relevance to me. I respect them as fellow human beings. No more, no less. The Workers control the flock because there is a flock to control. The roles of the Friends is relative to the Workers, a vice versa. You can't have one without the other; a symbiotic relationship.
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Post by baaaaaa on Sept 10, 2007 9:07:37 GMT -5
The Workers control the flock because there is a flock to control. and the cattle prods they use are quite effective (see Alberta).
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Yup Stupid is as Stupid Does
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Post by Yup Stupid is as Stupid Does on Sept 10, 2007 9:12:19 GMT -5
quote - "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." Ah yes, the old misreading of the bible trick! Was this something about David having the tenth century's equivalent of studs, mohawk and tats? Or was it about David's modesty, physique and social rank?Mis - reading of bible Trick the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heartWhat is it that you don't understand about the above words?
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