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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 6, 2007 13:04:47 GMT -5
GIT: Someone recently told me that Sam Jones "lost out" sometime efore he died (the song writer worker); meaning that he left the 2x2 way. I thought he was the overseer of W. Australia when he died in 1946.
I have never heard this, further, I really doubt it, and I recall that you wrote and had some knowledge of him earlier.
Can you confirm whether or not this is true?
Thanx, Cherie
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 6, 2007 17:37:49 GMT -5
GIT: Someone recently told me that Sam Jones "lost out" sometime efore he died (the song writer worker); meaning that he left the 2x2 way. I thought he was the overseer of W. Australia when he died in 1946.
Dear Cherie,
You are right to be sceptical of such assertions, which strike me as most pernicious (akin to the statements some make that Charles Darwin recanted evolution on his deathbed - a total myth).
Sam Jones had a congenital heart weakness. He died on a Sunday (I could probably find the exact date) in the Spring of 1946. He was staying with some Friends, but was in considerable discomfort due to his heart, and so did not attend the morning meeting. Instead he went for a walk.
He was discovered several hours later, on his back in a field of flowers, with a small bunch of blooms in his hand, having passed away into the arms of Christ. He who endured to the end, at last found the triumphant victory in the Lord. He now awaits to recieve a crown of righteousness, which the Lord himself shall give at the Last Day.
The claim that Sam Jones - the father of the Faith here in Western Australia - left the Church or apostated, is simply false.
Peace be unto you.
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Post by these jerks on Sept 6, 2007 18:10:27 GMT -5
these jerks keep confusing leaving 2x2ism with being apostates.
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 6, 2007 18:15:22 GMT -5
these jerks keep confusing leaving 2x2ism with being apostates.
Would you say that addressing people as "these jerks" is the sort of language of which Jesus Christ would approve? If it is not, why are you using it? Are you an active follower of Jesus Christ, or merely a passive claimant who believes that because he has faith he is saved without works?
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Post by to git on Sept 6, 2007 18:18:23 GMT -5
these jerks keep confusing leaving 2x2ism with being apostates.Would you say that addressing people as "these jerks" is the sort of language of which Jesus Christ would approve? If it is not, why are you using it? Are you an active follower of Jesus Christ, or merely a passive claimant who believes that because he has faith he is saved without works? You are an apostate.
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Post by Jessi on Sept 6, 2007 18:22:19 GMT -5
GIT: Someone recently told me that Sam Jones "lost out" sometime efore he died (the song writer worker); meaning that he left the 2x2 way. I thought he was the overseer of W. Australia when he died in 1946. Dear Cherie, You are right to be sceptical of such assertions, which strike me as most pernicious (akin to the statements some make that Charles Darwin recanted evolution on his deathbed - a total myth). Sam Jones had a congenital heart weakness. He died on a Sunday (I could probably find the exact date) in the Spring of 1946. He was staying with some Friends, but was in considerable discomfort due to his heart, and so did not attend the morning meeting. Instead he went for a walk. He was discovered several hours later, on his back in a field of flowers, with a small bunch of blooms in his hand, having passed away into the arms of Christ. He who endured to the end, at last found the triumphant victory in the Lord. He now awaits to recieve a crown of righteousness, which the Lord himself shall give at the Last Day. The claim that Sam Jones - the father of the Faith here in Western Australia - left the Church or apostated, is simply false. Peace be unto you. Is there any way to confirm this story, or should we just take your word for it? Well, GiT and Nathan do agree, so it looks like a go. Sam is with Jesus and his "hymns" are all totally sound in doctrine. Kinda scary that a "researcher" should rely on GiT to provide 2x2 history -- who changes his mind every other week. Besides, GiT, didn't you say you've only been a 2x2 for 13 years? Where are you getting your information? Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 6, 2007 18:28:37 GMT -5
Thank you - I think they may have Sam mixed up with Glenn Smith who wrote a number of hymns, and married a South American lady, and left the F&Ws or was ousted one. I can't remember right now.
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 6, 2007 18:39:44 GMT -5
Thank you - I think they may have Sam mixed up with Glenn Smith who wrote a number of hymns, and married a South American lady, and left the F&Ws or was ousted one. I can't remember right now.
I'm glad I could be of assistance!
Thanks for taking the time to confirm this Cherie. I really appreciate the fact that you take the time to check the facts before you accept them as facts!
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Post by which on Sept 6, 2007 18:42:46 GMT -5
Thank you - I think they may have Sam mixed up with Glenn Smith who wrote a number of hymns, and married a South American lady, and left the F&Ws or was ousted one. I can't remember right now.I'm glad I could be of assistance! Thanks for taking the time to confirm this Cherie. I really appreciate the fact that you take the time to check the facts before you accept them as facts! ...which is something that GIT does not do.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 6, 2007 20:18:41 GMT -5
Nate has an article by Clem Geue (1978) telling about Sam Jones on his website at: www.homestead.com/prosites-hobarker/samjones.html I have run across several similar articles spoken by Clem G at various locations about Sam Jones, but they are not on TTT. What GIT wrote concurs with my previous research o Sam Jones. I wanted an opinion from an Australian who was familiar with SJ's history, since GIT lives in WA where SJ had the oversight. The last paragraph of NB's article reads: From a review of hymns old and new. Sam Jones was born in Portadown, North Ireland, in 1877. He went forth to preach in 1902 and in1908 went to South Australia. He moved to Western Australia about 1909, and from there to Tasmania, where he spent about twenty years. He had not been home for 30 years when he came back to England in 1938. He returned to Australia. He died of heart failure on Sunday, April 14, 1946. Sam Jones might well be called, "The sweet psalmist of Isreal," in our day because of the number of hymns he wrote and their fragrance and spiritual thought. He loved to dwell much on the theme of redemption and Gods will and purpose to conform us to His image. I believe the person may have Sam mixed up with Glen Jones, about which my records contain the following notation: "Author Glenn Smith:* Born in 1880, Glenn labored in the Eastern USA before going to South America to preach, where /"it was very difficult because Spanish families just don't invite strangers into their homes, especially men and if some dared to do so, they would be expected to leave by or before time for the husband to leave for work." / Glenn married a nurse named Helen, after she professed in their meetings, and as a married couple, they were accepted in the homes more readily than single men or women. His overseers were not pleased with the marriage and a report was put out that Glenn had left the group, so naturally, the friends withdrew their financial support. Glenn and Helen were citizens of South America and eventually became part of the Assemblies of God church. Glenn became ill and died in S.A. (3-19-90 Dorothy Doner Letter Letter to Mary Ann Schoeff). *He wrote nine Hymns to his own music; Nos. 104, 212, 214, 227, 228, 229, 230 and 251 (in 1951 Edition).*"
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Post by to Cherie on Sept 6, 2007 20:30:03 GMT -5
GIT: Someone recently told me that Sam Jones "lost out" sometime efore he died (the song writer worker); meaning that he left the 2x2 way. I thought he was the overseer of W. Australia when he died in 1946. I have never heard this, further, I really doubt it, and I recall that you wrote and had some knowledge of him earlier. Can you confirm whether or not this is true? Thanx, Cherie Cherie, you have a reputation for relying on dependable sources. I wouldn't blow it now by listening to this GIT (pun intended).
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Post by to GIT on Sept 6, 2007 20:33:10 GMT -5
You are right to be sceptical of such assertions, which strike me as most pernicious (akin to the statements some make that Charles Darwin recanted evolution on his deathbed - a total myth). Yes, I hate folklore like this. Yes, I hate folklore like this too. Jesus is the father of my faith. Tell us more about this Sam Jones, the father of your faith.
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Post by to GIT on Sept 6, 2007 20:34:46 GMT -5
these jerks keep confusing leaving 2x2ism with being apostates.Would you say that addressing people as "these jerks" is the sort of language of which Jesus Christ would approve? If it is not, why are you using it? Are you an active follower of Jesus Christ, or merely a passive claimant who believes that because he has faith he is saved without works? Is the best response you have to the original post. What would you have said had it been "these people keep confusing leaving 2x2ism with being apostates"?
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Post by to GIT on Sept 6, 2007 20:36:04 GMT -5
Thanks for taking the time to confirm this Cherie. I really appreciate the fact that you take the time to check the facts before you accept them as facts! Now all we need is someone in your exclusive little club to do the same.
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 6, 2007 21:21:10 GMT -5
For Pete's sake. Lay off Git. It doesn't become you to trash him. That was the farthest thing from my mind when I started this thread. Truth is truth--regardless of who says it. A talking donkey once spoke the truth...
I wanted someone's opinion. GIT provided it - it lined up with my research.
However, some say George Walker didn't consider Sam Jones saved--which is an entirely different story from how the Aussies feel about him, and he lived in OZ for most of his life.
I find it interesting...
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elle
Junior Member
Posts: 192
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Post by elle on Sept 6, 2007 22:57:41 GMT -5
I can also corroborate GITs account of Sam Jones’ last days. I’ve heard the exact same account (down to the bunch of wildflowers in his hand and not feeling well enough to attend the fellowship meeting).
My father’s grandparents heard the 2x2 Gospel from Sam Jones in South Australia so he is a big part of my family’s history. My dad has a copy of the compilation of Sam Jones handwritten poems, hymns and drawings ( mainly of flowers) that others mentioned on a thread a while ago about sam. Its beautiful.
I’m not old enough to have know Sam but all accounts I have ever heard have been positive and I’ve never heard a hiny that he “lost out” before death.
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_
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by _ on Sept 6, 2007 23:18:04 GMT -5
Would you say that addressing people as "these jerks" is the sort of language of which Jesus Christ would approve? Would Jesus Christ approve of your belief that those who leave your fellowship are lost? Why do you ask questions you already know the answer to? He does not attend your fellowship, so by your standard the poster is lost... correct? Of course there is always the chance his salvation is "accidental".
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Post by gloryintruth on Sept 6, 2007 23:37:16 GMT -5
Is there any way to confirm this story, or should we just take your word for it?
There are probably fewer people alive these days who actually knew Sam Jones, but there are some. I have heard accounts of Sam Jones since a child from those who knew Sam personally. Of course my word alone is just that. But it is corroborrated by the testimonies of others.
Well, GiT and Nathan do agree, so it looks like a go.
I am unsure as to whether this is directed at me or at Cherie.
Sam is with Jesus and his "hymns" are all totally sound in doctrine.
[Wearily] Are we to revisit the hymn \ gospel song controvesy of a few weeks back? With all due respect, I don't think that conversation is going to go anywhere further. And, I do believe that I have moved beyond such matters to much more interesting and exciting prospects.
Kinda scary that a "researcher" should rely on GiT to provide 2x2 history -- who changes his mind every other week.
Interesting that you put the term "researcher" in parenthesis, precisely as you do for the word "hymns". The intent seems to be the same in both cases. Sam Jones did not write real hymns, and Cherie Kropp is not a real researcher.
I have noticed that you seem to have a chip on your shoulder in regards to Cherie, Jessi. What is the basis of this issue?
Besides, GiT, didn't you say you've only been a 2x2 for 13 years? Where are you getting your information?
A valid question to which I believe I have furnished an adequate answer. I know only because of the testimonies of others who knew Sam personally. I am sure there is probably some documents or orbituary clippings somewhere, but I do not have access to source materials. Sorry.
By the way, I do not especially like being called a "2x2". I have used this phrase myself to facilitate better communication, but recently I realised that this is simply not on. I am a Friend, professing Jesus according to the faith delivered unto the saints in the true Church. I would prefer this form of address if and when possible.
Peace be unto you. Benedicimus ad tu, ex Dominus Iesus Christus.
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Post by bogoso on Sept 7, 2007 0:02:55 GMT -5
What is the point of this thread? I feel ashamed and sorry to see the name of the one of greatest man I ever knew on this website. Clem Geue was one of natures gentleman and would be turning in his grave if he knew that he was being mentioned here by you people arguing about things that you possibly know absolutely nothing about!!! Again I ask, what is the point of this!!!
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 7, 2007 9:40:18 GMT -5
I started the post and my reasons for doing so are in the first post. To prove/disprove something I heard lately. Do you see anything wrong with that?
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Post by say what on Sept 7, 2007 9:48:33 GMT -5
What is the point of this thread? I feel ashamed and sorry to see the name of the one of greatest man I ever knew on this website. Clem Geue was one of natures gentleman and would be turning in his grave if he knew that he was being mentioned here by you people arguing about things that you possibly know absolutely nothing about!!! Again I ask, what is the point of this!!! Who exactly is "you people?" Why are you so angry?
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