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Post by feeding on Sept 3, 2007 13:42:02 GMT -5
I am hoping things are changing in the kingdom based on the Severud case in Minnesota. Maybe a new spirit of openess is occuring in the work.
But how about in Australia, Canada, British Isles, and the other 49 states? Is Lyle more honest than most overseers?
If a head worker is charged with a sex scandal, don't expect the same results as we saw in Minnesota. Don't be suprised to see him moved to another region.
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Post by dwelling on it on Sept 3, 2007 13:46:05 GMT -5
if that happens, its all about Jesus and should be posted here on the main board instead of the worldly board... after all, child molestation is all about doctrine, and Jesus, and the Holy Spirit...
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Post by Brick on Sept 3, 2007 13:59:09 GMT -5
If a head worker is charged with a sex scandal, don't expect the same results as we saw in Minnesota. Don't be surprised to see him moved to another region. Uhhh. I don't mean top point out the obvious, dude, but their legal team will have to request a change of venue from the courts in order to extradite them to another area for trial. If, however you are saying that when a crime such as this happens and is not reported to the authorities, then it's anyone's guess as to what will happen. As I have stated numerous times on here, sexual predators do not appear to be scum bags. They are well respected individuals. The responsibility for prosecuting these individuals falls on the parents, or other parties responsible for the well being of the victims, not those who are responsible for the perpetrator. Moms and Dads, if you love your children as Christ loved the church, you will intervene in these matters without consideration for the workers, your social standing in this fellowship, your reputation, and even in spite of possible protests of the abused child. You have an obligation to do the right thing, for once, regardless of who it hurts. Otherwise, consider yourself to be giving aid to an abuser of children. You just enabled the perp to repeat his crime.
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Post by nitro on Sept 3, 2007 14:02:08 GMT -5
Well said Brick !
Ditto
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Post by I wonder on Sept 3, 2007 14:21:17 GMT -5
I wonder if Ira Hobbs will ever own up to his sins.
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Post by Americana on Sept 3, 2007 14:28:15 GMT -5
"But how about in Australia, Canada, British Isles, and the other 49 states? "
Those countries are NOT states of USA.
When will you learn that there are other places than the USA?
Ameicans seem to ignore the majority of the world they are so insular. No wonder the things that happen there do so.
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Post by i wonder also on Sept 3, 2007 14:28:30 GMT -5
I wonder if Ira Hobbs will ever own up to his sins. i wonder if you'll ever own up to your sins......i wonder who's are worse, his or yours, but i don't wonder if it matters, because i sin more than both of you. but i know that his sins will not be a topic when you go to be judged.... there won't even be a post about his sins when you get judged, at least not from you. so do us a favor- shut up.
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Post by ithascome on Sept 3, 2007 14:30:31 GMT -5
Lets pray that it does not happen... I would think workers would be more careful from now on and perhaps there will be some worker meetings about this concern ... maybe even some ultimatums issued.
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Post by Cant believe it on Sept 3, 2007 16:05:11 GMT -5
Americana - The writer did a good job of separating those countries from "and the other 49 states" if you understand English as taught in the USA. How they do other places, I have no idea. That's what the comma is for. No way is he including those countries in the US. MHO Plus I think most understood, just not you.
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The Way it is in the way
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Post by The Way it is in the way on Sept 3, 2007 21:57:37 GMT -5
Assuming this is not reported to the legal authorities, the basic instructions from within the church would be, don't expose your "brother's/sister's faults" also the friends should just pray and leave the matter to be sorted out by those with the responsibility aka the workers.
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Post by so then on Sept 3, 2007 22:01:05 GMT -5
I wonder if Ira Hobbs will ever own up to his sins. i wonder if you'll ever own up to your sins......i wonder who's are worse, his or yours, but i don't wonder if it matters, because i sin more than both of you. but i know that his sins will not be a topic when you go to be judged.... there won't even be a post about his sins when you get judged, at least not from you. so do us a favor- shut up. Why do you condone sexually immoral workers?
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Sept 4, 2007 5:24:52 GMT -5
Its a hypothetical question.
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Post by americana on Sept 4, 2007 7:40:30 GMT -5
Americana - The writer did a good job of separating those countries from "and the other 49 states" if you understand English as taught in the USA. How they do other places, I have no idea. That's what the comma is for. No way is he including those countries in the US. MHO Plus I think most understood, just not you. There was no subject in the sentence to refer the "other 49 states" to, other than the list of countries. Americans generally have little regard to other countries.
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Post by mirror mirror on Sept 4, 2007 7:45:11 GMT -5
Americans generally have little regard to other countries. Those in other countries generally have little regard for America. ...works both ways, dude.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2007 9:05:39 GMT -5
I know of one of the senior European overseers that was caught in a long going sexual relationship is on the of the friends wives. The way he was dealt with by the other in the European high council group was OK .. However there was an enormous but carefully planned smoke screen system put into effect (not to protect the worker involved, but to protect the testimony) Besides the enormous dishonesty in the explanations given, many of the folks who were acquainted with the problem were very cruelly black mailed in different ways into absolute secrecy.
Seeing that in 2x2 doctrine senior workers represent God and their whims and fancies must always be revered, any hint that they may be of the same calliber as anyone else on the earth must be denied.
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Post by no name on Sept 4, 2007 9:36:41 GMT -5
If a head worker is charged with a sex scandal, don't expect the same results as we saw in Minnesota. Maybe more specific terminology would be appropriate. There's a huge difference between what's considered a sex "scandal", and a sex "crime". What happened in Minnesota was a crime and is being dealt with appropriately by law enforcement. And ditto to Brick's post. Once again, he is spot on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2007 14:16:07 GMT -5
Lets pray that it does not happen... I would think workers would be more careful from now on and perhaps there will be some worker meetings about this concern ... maybe even some ultimatums issued. I find it rather amazing that that folks should count on the fact of it not happening .. Are senior some different kind of animal with a non-existant sex drive? Or are they considered to be 'above' getting into the same kind of messes as any other group of people in the world? Nonsense!!! -- The question is not 'if' but 'when' and 'where'. The question is not if it happens .. the question is how and if it ever will be brought to light. 95% of such scandals never see the light of day. This fact in itself, is of course no reflexion on the integrity of the group. Most are aware of the fact that failure is a common ingredient in the human race -- Regardless of color, caste or age. (or denomination) The thing that sets to 2x2 group off in a class by itself, is the blatent dishonesty in dealing with, and in explanation, that most often are put into force when such problems arise, especially in leadership circles. Most other groups face the problem, make amends and then go forward wiser and humbler as a result. 'Try and duck the issue' is official 2x2 policy.
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Post by Brick on Sept 4, 2007 16:10:42 GMT -5
The question is not 'if' but 'when' and 'where'. The question is not if it happens .. the question is how and if it ever will be brought to light. 95% of such scandals never see the light of day. Convicted by DNA? If you are human, you WILL err? Is that the charge? You know, probably more than 95% of all scandals, not just in the 2x2 fellowship, never see the light of day. I'm not restricting it to sex scandals, but any scandal. How many of you know of a scandal going on at work, in the neighborhood, in the schools--it's everywhere. And of course, there's a cottage industry that publicizes celebrity scandals. Thank goodness they haven't turned their focus on common people. The simple fact of the matter is that no group wants negative publicity. Companies go to great lengths to present a positive public image. Most of us check ourselves out in the mirror before leaving our homes so we know if we are presentable. This is normal. However, seeking to expose the wrong is the work of Satan, "the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night."
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Post by Hmmmmmm on Sept 4, 2007 18:46:45 GMT -5
Thank you so much Brick, you are right.
"However, seeking to expose the wrong is the work of Satan, "the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night."
Sex crimes are, as it has been pointed out before, different than two people becoming involved sexually. Crimes need to be brought out into the open, but I am not sure that failing to hold the moral high ground in our living needs to be broadcast from the tops of the mountains.
I can understand wanting to if you are doing so from a position of hatred, which is what the devil would like to do... but that is only because you the shouter are wanting to inflict pain on the other. That however is not Christ like.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 4, 2007 21:44:40 GMT -5
big ditto to both of Brick's posts..and I, as usual, agree with no name as well. M.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2007 10:14:14 GMT -5
The real issue is not so much the workers involved, it is the countless victims that 2x2ers purposely choose to leave on the side of the road by their stubborn unwillingness to even consider 'looking that way'. The unwillingness to use even the simplest form of deduction in the interests of the abused and suffering (if workers have been involved) is one of the highest forms of selfishness -- and one of the highest forms of hypocrisy that exist --- but it is part of group doctrine!! Most friends and workers follow this 'take the other side of the road' doctrine meticulously. (especially if a senior worker is involved)
By far, the greatest regrets I have of my time in the work, are the subtle, somewhat foggy, indications of abuse by workers that I choose not to investigate as a worker, that years later I have found out were in fact horrendous, with extreme trauma and suffering for the victims. (in at least 2 cases, that led to a complete and non-recoverable collapse of mental health)
Edgar
Luke 10:30-36 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. [31] And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. [32] And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
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Post by no name on Sept 5, 2007 10:19:54 GMT -5
Crimes need to be brought out into the open, but I am not sure that failing to hold the moral high ground in our living needs to be broadcast from the tops of the mountains. I can understand wanting to if you are doing so from a position of hatred, which is what the devil would like to do... but that is only because you the shouter are wanting to inflict pain on the other. That however is not Christ like. I agree - you said this a lot better than I could. big ditto to both of Brick's posts..and I, as usual, agree with no name as well. M. Well, you know what they say about great minds . . . . ;D Nah, I don't think I have a "great" mind, but I do like how others can express similar views to mine in a clear and concise way. ETA: See? I can do it too.
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Post by Mary Lincoln on Sept 5, 2007 12:22:28 GMT -5
One of the founding truths of the Law Of Our Land is this: If you know about a crime or are witness to a crime, you are obligated to report it to the proper authorities. Criminal activity is criminal activity. A crime is a crime. As children of God and as law abiding CITIZENS we are to obey the laws of the land which are founded upon the TEN COMMANDMENTS. If you know of a crime and do nothing about it, did you know that you can also be tried as well as the original perpetrator? Yes, indeed. You can. You can be tried with aiding and abetting a criminal!
It's really very simple.
My dear people: Are you law abiding citizens or not? Can you honestly answer that question? My dear husband, Abraham can. This is why we fought to let enslaved men have freedom. We could have sat back and let nature take it's course and maybe, just maybe slavery would have died out. Well. Maybe if we just sit back and let nature take it's course child molestation will just die out-: Do not count on it.
Where are your whistles? Get them out and start blowing them or YOUR CHILDREN may be the next victims of abuse!
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Post by las logged out on Sept 5, 2007 12:34:06 GMT -5
I'd be willing to bet most folks in Minisota still do not know of what recently has taken place..for the simple reason all might not of been told but they want the rest of 2x2s to think that
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IQ
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Post by IQ on Sept 5, 2007 14:58:02 GMT -5
I am hoping things are changing in the kingdom based on the Severud case in Minnesota. Maybe a new spirit of openess is occuring in the work. But how about in Australia, Canada, British Isles, and the other 49 states? Is Lyle more honest than most overseers? If a head worker is charged with a sex scandal, don't expect the same results as we saw in Minnesota. Don't be suprised to see him moved to another region. ...prison in another state...is this what you are talking about? Some states contract their prisoners to other states! Knowing this, will not make it a surprise at all!
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IQ
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Post by IQ on Sept 5, 2007 15:26:13 GMT -5
Americana - The writer did a good job of separating those countries from "and the other 49 states" if you understand English as taught in the USA. How they do other places, I have no idea. That's what the comma is for. No way is he including those countries in the US. MHO Plus I think most understood, just not you. There was no subject in the sentence to refer the "other 49 states" to, other than the list of countries. Americans generally have little regard to other countries. We are the world power!
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