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Post by Minneapolis2007 on Aug 30, 2007 9:13:53 GMT -5
Scott,
You live in the Twin Cites? You used to profess it appears?
What church do you currently go to? What do you enjoy most about it? Were there any other churches you tried you also liked.
Thanks!
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 30, 2007 14:16:38 GMT -5
Howdy Minneapolis 2007, Yes I'm here in Minneapolis. I live in Ramsey just to the NW with my wife 2 dogs and a cat. I'm not real sure where I fall in the pecking order around our house.... Here is some information concerning the church I attend. I dredged it up from an old post of mine. As you may notice, it began just 10 years earlier than the 'truth'. How Did the C&MA Come to Be?
A Brief History The Christian and Missionary Alliance began as a deeper life and missionary movement initiated by Dr. Albert B. Simpson in 1887 to mobilize the underutilized lay forces and resources of the churches to "take the whole Bible to the whole world." He believed that a life completely yielded to Christ was one in which service to Christ would be of paramount importance. A person controlled by the Holy Spirit has no choice but to be involved in bringing the Good News to others, either as an overseas missionary or as a missionary at home.
The founder was reluctant to establish churches, preferring to call together Christians with a vision to evangelize the world but who remained in their local churches. However, the Christ-centered emphasis in teaching and the priority on missions made many people unwelcome in their denominations, causing them to form groups that for years were called "branches," not churches. By the mid-1970s, it became clear that The Alliance was a denomination in all but name, so with revised bylaws and constitution that reality was formalized in 1974.
It also shares much of the same terminology as you can see by the following: Our Vision: The Christian and Missionary Alliance will be a movement of Great Commission Christians who are glorifying God by building Christ's Church worldwide.
To achieve this vision, a strategy has been developed that consists of six components. The resources of the C&MA are focused on these strategic initiatives: 1. Develop Healthy Local Churches 2. Identify Workers for the Harvest 3. Train Called Workers 4. Multiply Churches in the United States 5. Multiply Churches Worldwide 6. Establish a Strong Support BaseThere is also a very public doctrinal statement which you can read at:www.cmalliance.org/whoweare/doctrine.jspOur particular church in Oak Grove was part of what was called the Easter 100 (I think that was it....) The goal was to establish 100 new congregations. Our church began meeting in a rented hall, and also in a rented warehouse. Once enough funding was generated a church was constructed by the members. The church holds about 100 people or so. Just some info on how another church handled becoming a denomination................ Scott xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I also checked out the Constance Free Church. I enjoyed what was preached, but it is a really large church. What do I enjoy most about the Alliance church? I guess the fact that the pastor also rides a motorcycle. (ha...just joking) I like the fact that they preach what is in the bible. Sermons are about how we are saved by grace through our faith, and that Jesus died for our sins. Our pastor (or an elder when the pastor is absent) doesn't add to the bible and neither does he take away from the bible. There are folks that show up in their 'Sunday best', and there are people who show up in shorts and a Twins shirt (or a Vikings shirt during football season). Whether I show up in my leathers on my motorcycle, or whether I come dressed in slacks and dress shirt the pastor (I'll call him Keith.......'cause that's his name) is just as happy to see me. He loves seeing everyone who comes to church. He doesn't see or care what we wear on the outside, but he difinitely cares about what we 'wear' inside. Another thing that I like is that it is a rather small and humble church. Much more intimate than a larger church. Thanks for asking.... Scott
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Post by a believer on Aug 30, 2007 14:44:56 GMT -5
Hi Scott I also go to a CMA church but in another country. Great church. Excellent teaching. I used to think CMA was very quiet but ours is very lively, is yours?
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Post by Scott Ross on Aug 30, 2007 17:50:24 GMT -5
Yes it can be lively. One of our friends says that one of these days she expects to see me singing with my arms uplifted and swaying to the music. My problem is I'll probably be doing it with my eyes shut and when I open them everyone will be looking at me as they wait for me to shut up so the pastor can say a prayer.... Scott
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Aug 31, 2007 1:12:24 GMT -5
Scott..the singing has been for me one of the greatest issues in finding a church. One of the things I enjoyed most about my meeting out in Council Bluffs was the singing..we had quite a group of exellent voices and it was awesome. ... having been thru quite a few other churches in the past 3 years I came to learn about musical instruments along with the singing- gee..don't we read of all kinds of instrumental devices going along with singing in scripture!!..what happened to those for meeting folks??- . .and now I imagine what Heaven will be like.. can you imagine the concerts we're gonna be able to attend!!! . ... . .getting back to my point. . ...don't worry about getting left standing.. .. there's gonna be a whole lotta souls standing with you just because it's so awesome!!! ..
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Post by wondering1 on Sept 3, 2007 6:50:08 GMT -5
Scott -- Is Tim S. still in jail? If so, is this offense one that you can't get bailed out? Or doesn't Lyle or the friends want to bail him out. I don't know much about this offense so don't know the legalities of it.
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Post by Scott Ross on Sept 3, 2007 8:20:33 GMT -5
Howdy.
I am not real sure on the bail situation. I'll check in to it. I don't think that he will be released before trial since he has admitted to the charges against him. Likewise I do not know if there is a trial date set.
Scott
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Post by wondering1 on Sept 3, 2007 8:57:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I just wonder if he is completely abandoned by his previous "friends" and "co-workers". That would irk me more than anything.
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Post by Scott Ross on Sept 3, 2007 9:16:58 GMT -5
Howdy, I specifically asked Lyle if they were going to be there for Tim and he assured me that they would be. I also asked him if the 'truth' would be willing to pay for counseling for the victims. His reply was that he would have to ask the elders if they felt it would be right to use 'free will offerings' (I think that was how he put it) for this purpose. Hope this happens. I have considered trying to get donations from those of us who have contributed to this board to give to the family for this purpose. That way both those who are professing and us 'exes' would have the chance to show how we care. I do not want to be seen as someone who is interfering with the 'truth' though. Anyone have input on this to share? Judging by the emails I have received, I think this would have some interest. Again, my regular email is: bescottross@aol.com Those of you who are not registered on this board can contact me at that eaddress if you so desire. I have no hidden agenda in all this, and anything shared will be confidential. I have gotten emails from which I want to give 'generic' info to Lyle at some point with no names associated with it. Just info for him to think about. Not everything that was discussed with Lyle and Craig has been posted here. Again, I have the utmost respect for what Lyle is doing and has done in this matter. Scott
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Post by Jessi on Sept 3, 2007 12:01:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I just wonder if he is completely abandoned by his previous "friends" and "co-workers". That would irk me more than anything. Nathan, for you and Tim S's cheerleader: Even more than not trying to help the victims? the anonymous poster said, "more than anything" that would irk you. What kind of a creep are you? And Nathan, why are you so worried about this restoration of the perp so early on in the process -- and not a proper mourning over the thing done to a precious child. Say that I steal your car, Nathan and Tim's cheerleader, and then come to you and ask for forgiveness and you forgive me . . . and I drive off in your car because I've been forgiven . . . No. I must give the car back, as part of the restitution for my crime. If the guy loses all his friends, so WHAT for right now? He didn't do it for Christ. Let him suffer. Let him be alone. Then he'll know what the child might have felt like. Seems we are not to judge one who does these things if he says he's not a believer, but if he claims to be a brother . . . that's a whole other story. 1 Corinthians 5:11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.Don't get too close, cheerleader. Because anyone who does these things and calls himself a brother, could be consumed at any time. SUFFERING FOR WRONGDOING: Why are you so worried about the perp and not the victims? The Bible says, if one does something wrong and he pays for it, he shouldn't so much whine about it, but take it like a man. H SHOULD suffer for it. He did wrong. But if someone suffers, having done nothing wrong, it is a glory to God (there is a reason He allowed it to happen). I Peter 2:19: For this is a gracious thing, when, mindful of God, one endures sorrows while suffering unjustly.
20For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God.Everything seems backwards in this works-based system. Covering up is better than truth . . . Tim is more important than his victims. Isaiah 5:20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!Whoever you are, for the TS cheerleader, you give priority in your compassions for the perp and not the victims, it seems. What about the offended brother, sister who was molested? The Bible says that evil people are sometimes not punished right away - but they ARE punished. It also says : Proverbs 18:19A brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city: and their contentions are like the bars of a castle.Better start now, so their precious lives are not spent in vain, steeped in hate and fear, experiencing cold wonderings and probings . . . "How many times did you say it happened?" "But I thought you said it was one year, when actually, it couldn't have been, because he was only here, 6 months." "But, didn't you say that it was in this house, but rather it was in that one?" Which room WAS it REALLY in?" Looking for an out. Feeling for a lie within a memory that wants to, needs to die. Yes, the child needs the most help, cheerleader. The children and orphans and widows and those who cannot help themselves and who have been oppressed and sinned against. That you cannot differentiate between the needs of Tim S and children he has hurt and try to equalize the needs of both the perp and the victims . . . is really surprising to me. Their needs are not equal. The crime committed is atrocious. So, let him suffer for his wrongdoing. Not to say that he may never be restored -- but what if the victims have seen what you wrote, so early after the sins committed against them? Shame on all who post here, including me, if they have--because then none of us have done or said or written enough for their cause. I pray for them -- that they won't have to suffer and hate and despise people because of what one man did to them. If anyone who knows them reads this -- don't let them waste their lives in hate. Get them help. No psychiatrist/psychologist in the world can help them if they don't know Jesus Christ. Make sure they know Jesus, the Great Physician. He knows their pain. Stripe for stripe. He is the ONLY one who can completely heal their wounds. Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by Huh What on Sept 3, 2007 12:10:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I just wonder if he is completely abandoned by his previous "friends" and "co-workers". That would irk me more than anything. Those that know Tim S. personally will not abandoned him... They will do all they can to help him to get back on his feet so he can truly serve God with Joy again. I hope and pray that Tim S. will REPENT and get some professional help for the challenges he has in his life.
I know Lyle S. will continue to keep in contact and help Tim in anyway he can.
I believe many of the friends and workers who know, heard, and read about Tim are praying for his speedily recovery because ALL of us have sinned, failed, make mistakes, our short comings in one way or another. Nobody is perfect or sinless so we need God's grace and mercy every day as long we live in these human bodies.Huh What kind of fellowship is this? "I know Lyle S. will continue to keep in contact and help Tim in anyway he can."Good grief the workers and friends do not even try and keep in touch with friends saints who they have pushed out of the fellowship because of directed questions. Those saints have been branded "not willing" and "not in the right spirit" just because they had serious questions regarding doctrine or the WI issues. Tell me what sins are they convicted of by asking questions? Yet you feel the workers should try and keep in touch with a known sinner of the worst kind. One who preys on little children. Something is very wrong with this picture.
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Post by Johnny DeRaad on Sept 4, 2007 0:35:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I just wonder if he is completely abandoned by his previous "friends" and "co-workers". That would irk me more than anything. Those that know Tim S. personally will not abandoned him... They will do all they can to help him to get back on his feet so he can truly serve God with Joy again. I hope and pray that Tim S. will REPENT and get some professional help for the challenges he has in his life.
I know Lyle S. will continue to keep in contact and help Tim in anyway he can.
I believe many of the friends and workers who know, heard, and read about Tim are praying for his speedily recovery because ALL of us have sinned, failed, make mistakes, our short comings in one way or another. Nobody is perfect or sinless so we need God's grace and mercy every day as long we live in these human bodies... . ....I honestly hope Tim can someday be healed and truely serve God and man again.. ..it's just gonna be from behind a tall chain link fence with consantine wire on top of it..a short patch of gravel..another tall chain link fence with more constantine wire on top of and and at the base of it...a wide grassy area thats off limits to inmates..a brick or limestone wall... a steel door..and then depending on how old the joint is..a barred door or another steel door with a little window to look out of and a slot to recieve his food and meds and mail..that's probably what's gonna be between him and the free world..for a long time!. ..
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Post by PDK on Sept 4, 2007 2:11:57 GMT -5
Or doesn't Lyle or the friends want to bail him out.
Imagine what some exes would make of that!
Compassion to a fallen man... h'mmm... not the "gospel way"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2007 7:27:02 GMT -5
Hey Scott, what is your favorite bike? I am fond of the big Honda 1800! The Boss Hoss is kind of amazing to look at - but only look! I used to be in awe of those Kawasaki 750 two-stroke triples once.
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Post by Scott Ross on Sept 4, 2007 7:48:10 GMT -5
Hey Bert, Pretty hard for me not to like the VTX 1800 since that is what I ride! Also this year we purchased a camp trailer that I pull with my 1800. Pretty rough camping. When set up it has a king size bed, plus a 6x6 area. My Honda has no problem dragging it along at 80mph. (usually run about 70-75 on the interstates) The thought of a tire blowing out at 80mph usually keeps me in pretty close contact with God while riding...... Scott
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Post by importantguy on Sept 8, 2007 3:09:02 GMT -5
Boy, Scott Ross you must be a pretty important guy to have your own thread!!!!
You've either done something really good or really bad.
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Post by Scott Ross on Sept 8, 2007 9:25:20 GMT -5
Howdy, Kinda scary when you don't know which it is...... Scott
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Post by Humm on Sept 8, 2007 9:37:18 GMT -5
Those that know Tim S. personally will not abandoned him... They will do all they can to help him to get back on his feet so he can truly serve God with Joy again. I hope and pray that Tim S. will REPENT and get some professional help for the challenges he has in his life.
I know Lyle S. will continue to keep in contact and help Tim in anyway he can.
I believe many of the friends and workers who know, heard, and read about Tim are praying for his speedily recovery because ALL of us have sinned, failed, make mistakes, our short comings in one way or another. Nobody is perfect or sinless so we need God's grace and mercy every day as long we live in these human bodies. Huh What kind of fellowship is this? "I know Lyle S. will continue to keep in contact and help Tim in anyway he can."Good grief the workers and friends do not even try and keep in touch with friends saints who they have pushed out of the fellowship because of directed questions. Those saints have been branded "not willing" and "not in the right spirit" just because they had serious questions regarding doctrine or the WI issues. Tell me what sins are they convicted of by asking questions? Yet you feel the workers should try and keep in touch with a known sinner of the worst kind. One who preys on little children. Something is very wrong with this picture. I just saw this reply and think it raises a good question. Why is there no concern for those who have been pushed out?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2007 9:59:07 GMT -5
Huh What kind of fellowship is this? "I know Lyle S. will continue to keep in contact and help Tim in anyway he can."Good grief the workers and friends do not even try and keep in touch with friends saints who they have pushed out of the fellowship because of directed questions. Those saints have been branded "not willing" and "not in the right spirit" just because they had serious questions regarding doctrine or the WI issues. Tell me what sins are they convicted of by asking questions? Yet you feel the workers should try and keep in touch with a known sinner of the worst kind. One who preys on little children. Something is very wrong with this picture. I just saw this reply and think it raises a good question. Why is there no concern for those who have been pushed out? Part of the reason is that when we push people out, we are very adept to rationalize that the person ''chose" to leave. When they leave, we concoct every possible reason why they left, "got offended", "stopped praying", "not willing", and so on. Then we rationalize that they have to come to their senses on their own, at which time they know where to come to get right again. So we leave them alone. Left out of the whole equation is any fault of ours, after all, we are God's Only True People and have God's Only True Ministry to follow and who would surely tell us to care about people if we were supposed to. I think that's just about how it goes. Hope this helps explain this phenomena.
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Post by Jessi on Sept 8, 2007 10:13:32 GMT -5
I wonder how they read James 5:19-20 . . .
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, Let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wanderings will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. (ESV)
Christ's Forever,
Jessi
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2007 10:39:41 GMT -5
I wonder how they read James 5:19-20 . . . My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, Let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wanderings will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. (ESV) Christ's Forever, Jessi Most friends will rationalize this verse to apply to the ministry only. Few friends believe that they have the ability to rescue anyone from sin and that is the sole preserve of the workers. The workers will occasionally make contact with those who have left if they feel welcome. James5:19-20 successfully followed, duty discharged.
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Post by Jessi on Sept 8, 2007 11:22:22 GMT -5
I wonder how they read James 5:19-20 . . . My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, Let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wanderings will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. (ESV) Christ's Forever, Jessi Most friends will rationalize this verse to apply to the ministry only. Few friends believe that they have the ability to rescue anyone from sin and that is the sole preserve of the workers. The workers will occasionally make contact with those who have left if they feel welcome. James5:19-20 successfully followed, duty discharged. Right. I also have wondered about this line of thinking--the workers and ministers and preachers should do all the evangelizing -- but James was writing to "the brethren", calling them "My brothers" throughout the book -- He wrote in the letter a greeting " . . . to the Twelve tribes in the Dispersion". Certainly, there were not 12 tribes full of just workers? Also, he admonished the brothers in this letter that not many of them should be teachers (3:1), so it seems that he was talking to twelve tribes of his brothers, and saying that out of all these people, not many should be teachers because they will be judged with greater strictness. Just thinking and comparing . . . the Bible is the only measure of Truth. It shines the light -- and thoughts and beliefs scatter and scurry away to hide. How could I have thought these things before? And what has convicted me? What has made me change my mind? Heb 4:12 Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by Pushed Out on Sept 8, 2007 12:04:43 GMT -5
I just saw this reply and think it raises a good question. Why is there no concern for those who have been pushed out? Part of the reason is that when we push people out, we are very adept to rationalize that the person ''chose" to leave. When they leave, we concoct every possible reason why they left, "got offended", "stopped praying", "not willing", and so on. Then we rationalize that they have to come to their senses on their own, at which time they know where to come to get right again. So we leave them alone. Left out of the whole equation is any fault of ours, after all, we are God's Only True People and have God's Only True Ministry to follow and who would surely tell us to care about people if we were supposed to. I think that's just about how it goes. Hope this helps explain this phenomena. Thank you clearday for the honest answer. I believe you have hit the nail on the head. I was pushed out because of Doctrine beliefs. There was no discussion. It was simply the rebuke as noted in the post by humm. I was told either not to speak of it or my testimony was not welcome. I felt that was fairly clear. I was not cherished in the fellowship as no accuser came foward to discuss it. The workers just wanted to rebuke and tell me I was wrong and they did not have answers to my questions. It delt with God not being restricted to the F&W's box. I am reminded always of the following from Galatians 6. 1: Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. There was no meekness nor no consideration to themselves as perhaps also being wrong-- Only the rebuke and shutdown.2: Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. There was no attempt to help understand my burdens let alone help me with them. (To fulfil the Law of Christ) Fairly clear to me that this is a reference to do things in love according to the 1st and 2nd greatest commandment. I was accused without accusers coming forward to discuss the matter. If the accusers were the workers, then they lied in that they said others complained. And then there is the issue of what sin was I accused of? Questioning doctrine! That is a sin?
3: For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. Of course this is a most improtant part. When others believe that they are the only ones who have the right answers and believe they are not wrong or something greater then they are. Is this not the error of pride.self-right·eous (sělf'rī'chəs) adj. 1. Piously sure of one's own righteousness; moralistic. 2. Exhibiting pious self-assurance: self-righteous remarks. I do not discount working out the rest of that Chapter but these first few verses put in context the whole chapter. How many others? How many? Pious Self righteousness will drive saints away when it rears its ugly head. It is hard to fellowship with saints who have these attitudes. Now I am sure some may want to turn it around and point at me and say perhaps I was doing in kind. Perhaps, but I was open to discussion which was not affforded to me. It was our way or the highway. Well Jesus went a certain way and on the wayside there was a blind man------ You know the story Well I am content in the wayside where Jesus walks.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2007 12:13:31 GMT -5
Part of the reason is that when we push people out, we are very adept to rationalize that the person ''chose" to leave. When they leave, we concoct every possible reason why they left, "got offended", "stopped praying", "not willing", and so on. Then we rationalize that they have to come to their senses on their own, at which time they know where to come to get right again. So we leave them alone. Left out of the whole equation is any fault of ours, after all, we are God's Only True People and have God's Only True Ministry to follow and who would surely tell us to care about people if we were supposed to. I think that's just about how it goes. Hope this helps explain this phenomena. Thank you clearday for the honest answer. I believe you have hit the nail on the head. I was pushed out because of Doctrine beliefs. There was no discussion. It was simply the rebuke as noted in the post by humm. I was told either not to speak of it or my testimony was not welcome. I felt that was fairly clear. I was not cherished in the fellowship as no accuser came foward to discuss it. The workers just wanted to rebuke and tell me I was wrong and they did not have answers to my questions. It delt with God not being restricted to the F&W's box. I am reminded always of the following from Galatians 6. 1: Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. There was no meekness nor no consideration to themselves as perhaps also being wrong-- Only the rebuke and shutdown.2: Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. There was no attempt to help understand my burdens let alone help me with them. (To fulfil the Law of Christ) Fairly clear to me that this is a reference to do things in love according to the 1st and 2nd greatest commandment. I was accused without accusers coming forward to discuss the matter. If the accusers were the workers, then they lied in that they said others complained. And then there is the issue of what sin was I accused of? Questioning doctrine! That is a sin?
3: For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. Of course this is a most improtant part. When others believe that they are the only ones who have the right answers and believe they are not wrong or something greater then they are. Is this not the error of pride.self-right·eous (sělf'rī'chəs) adj. 1. Piously sure of one's own righteousness; moralistic. 2. Exhibiting pious self-assurance: self-righteous remarks. I do not discount working out the rest of that Chapter but these first few verses put in context the whole chapter. How many others? How many? Pious Self righteousness will drive saints away when it rears its ugly head. It is hard to fellowship with saints who have these attitudes. Now I am sure some may want to turn it around and point at me and say perhaps I was doing in kind. Perhaps, but I was open to discussion which was not affforded to me. It was our way or the highway. Well Jesus went a certain way and on the wayside there was a blind man------ You know the story Well I am content in the wayside where Jesus walks. The pattern you described is very familiar to me, I have seen it employed many times. The good news is that it sounds like you are doing well and I'm very glad to hear that. Yes, the self righteous drive people out, this occurs over and over. My long deceased grandfather used to tell me "the bad always drive out the good, it is rarely the other way around." It is just not in good people to beat up on others except in rare instances in the defense of others.
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