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Post by savedbygrace00 on Aug 29, 2007 22:19:43 GMT -5
Is there anyone that believes in eternity security? Our minister spoke on this tonight and I have never, ever, heard it any plainer. Oh, if only the workers could preach half as good as this man!!
Once saved, always saved. You had better believe it. If you don't you had better question yourself as to why you think you have to work your way to salvation and think that Jesus dying on the cross was not enough. Why do you think you have to work your way to Heaven, when Jesus died on the cross for you. Grace, that is true grace.
Also, how can you be saved, lose out, and be saved again. There is no way. You cannot be saved more than once. God cannot say He never knew you in the end if you were once saved. I just can't explain it like he did, but wow oh wow, I am on my way to Heaven. No worries. The workers never tell you that. They put the fear of God in you until the day you die you have no idea if you are saved or not.
I don't mean to cut down the workers, but friends, if you accepted Christ as your personal Saviour, you have nothing to worry about in the end. No, Jesus dying is not a ticket to sin, it is our responsibility as we receive the gift of grace, to use it wisely until death. We sin, we repent with a true repentance. We are all sinners no matter what. As long as we truly repent, we will go to Heaven. I loved it tonight and can't wait to go back for more. This preacher is awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2007 22:25:44 GMT -5
quote in question: " Once saved, always saved. You had better believe it." quotes in certainty: " Jesus dying is not a ticket to sin" "it is our responsibility ... to use it wisely until death." "As long as we truly repent... "and " This preacher is awesome." Watch a Paula White video. She is awesome too
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Post by _ on Aug 29, 2007 22:32:14 GMT -5
pots is different then osas... know the difference...
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Post by OzE on Aug 29, 2007 22:42:17 GMT -5
Can I lose my salvation? If so, How?
gloryintruth's answer:
"You can make a false profession; you can be among the people of God but not "of" the people of God, but it is not possible for those who have truly been saved to lose their salvation."
Do you think his belief is misguided and wrong Bert?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2007 22:48:56 GMT -5
I believe that you be "saved" as in starting afresh, doing everything the scripture says you must do and loving God will all your heart. But if you should lose your "first love" as that church in Revelation did, then your salvation is in jeopardy.
What do you think of these, OzE? "Jesus dying is not a ticket to sin" "it is our responsibility ... to use it wisely until death." "As long as we truly repent... "
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Post by savedbygrace00 on Aug 29, 2007 23:11:00 GMT -5
pots is different then osas... know the difference... what does that mean? I take it you don't believe in eternal security is that correct?
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Post by _ on Aug 29, 2007 23:37:02 GMT -5
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Post by OzE on Aug 30, 2007 2:37:52 GMT -5
My question was: "Do you think his belief is misguided and wrong Bert?"
Just a simple answer would be great thank you and then I'll try and address your question to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2007 5:10:54 GMT -5
quote - "My question was: "Do you think his belief is misguided and wrong Bert?" Just a simple answer would be great thank you and then I'll try and address your question to me. "
quote - Is there anyone that believes in eternity security? Agree
quote - Our minister spoke on this tonight and I have never, ever, heard it any plainer. Oh, if only the workers could preach half as good as this man!! Can't say
quote - Once saved, always saved. Flatly wrong
quote - You had better believe it. No I dont
quote - If you don't you had better question yourself as to why you think you have to work your way to salvation and think that Jesus dying on the cross was not enough. Disagree.
quote - Why do you think you have to work your way to Heaven, when Jesus died on the cross for you. Grace, that is true grace. Disagree
quote - Also, how can you be saved, lose out, and be saved again. It happens
quote - There is no way. Disagree
quote - You cannot be saved more than once. Disagree. There are plenty of Prodigal sons.
quote - God cannot say He never knew you in the end if you were once saved. What?
quote - I just can't explain it like he did, but wow oh wow, I am on my way to Heaven. Reserve judgment.
quote - No worries. Disagree
quote - The workers never tell you that. Agree
quote - They put the fear of God in you until the day you die you have no idea if you are saved or not. Disagree
quote - I don't mean to cut down the workers, Disagree
quote - but friends, if you accepted Christ as your personal Saviour, you have nothing to worry about in the end. Depends. What is this which is written, we must "work out our salvation with fear and trembling."
quote - No, Jesus dying is not a ticket to sin, Agree
quote - it is our responsibility as we receive the gift of grace, to use it wisely until death. Agree
quote - We sin, we repent with a true repentance. We are all sinners no matter what. Depends
quote - As long as we truly repent, we will go to Heaven. Disagree - we can seek repentance with tears if God turns away from us.
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Post by motherofason on Aug 30, 2007 5:32:12 GMT -5
I have never believed in the eternal security doctrine that is being taught today .... I think it is one of the most dangerous doctrines on earth .... I am a Vietnam vet and believe me when I say that I lived life to the fullest and was a firm believer in the saying "If it feels good, do it," but when Jesus came in, all that other stuff (sin) had to go .... I cannot understand how people can say they are saved and still do the things they used to do. I couldn't, nor wanted to .... I do believe you are wasting your time trying to explain your position to eternal security believers .... their desire and lust for the things of this world has hardened their hearts to the truth. They really do believe that they can have it both ways -- righteousness and sin. I give this example. I have a friend at work who is a 100% believer in Charles Stanley's teaching .... he also loaned me a copy of Stanley's book, which I read and after reading it, am totally convinced that he is wrong .... As I stated earlier, I think this doctrine is extremely dangerous. This friend of mine is married, one son, another child on the way and a girlfriend on the side that he sees several times a week. He smokes, drinks and curses. He is also one of the largest drug users and dealers in our area. This guy is always telling me that he is ready to go. Ready to meet the Lord. He even tries to witness to other people whenever he doesn't have a drug deal or a party or a girlfriend to go to. I have seen first-hand the damage that this person is doing and it sickens me .... All of this because of the eternal security doctrine .... It doesn't matter what I say or what Scriptures I give him. He thinks he's OK .... These people love the world too much to listen to reason.
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Post by IllinoisGal on Aug 30, 2007 6:14:20 GMT -5
I believe that you be "saved" as in starting afresh, doing everything the scripture says you must do and loving God will all your heart. But if you should lose your "first love" as that church in Revelation did, then your salvation is in jeopardy. Bert. I believe the scripture says "Left" your first love. If you leave it, you know where to find it again. If you lose it you dont know where it is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2007 6:22:28 GMT -5
quote - "Bert. I believe the scripture says "Left" your first love. If you leave it, you know where to find it again. If you lose it you dont know where it is."
I stand corrected, sort of. Left and Lost is about semantics. Many who left God's way certainly never came back. Look at Solomon.
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Still human until death
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Post by Still human until death on Aug 30, 2007 8:27:14 GMT -5
I think you can be secure in your salvation... But not once saved always saved...
Jesus sacrifice was not a ticket to sin. We don't go, oh well, he died lets just get on with life.
NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When we accept Jesus he lives in us. We live a godly life with godly works because he lives in us. BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If we willfully sin against what the holy spirit is teaching us.... THIS IS WILLFUL disobedience...
I believe that their is a difference between failing... AND WILLFULLY FAILING...
When we fail it is because we are struggling against our human nature, and it is a strong opponent. Christ gives us the victory, but sometimes we have our failures as well but god is worthy to forgive those because he knows our weakness. But if we willfully sin after Jesus saves us, then we are willfully denying the power of the holy spirit in our lives. WE are willfully going against what go is trying to teach us and tell us. This I believe is also blasphemy against the holy ghost because we are not seeing and accepting the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives.
I believe, though this is my belief and others may not understand it the same way I do, that this may be bordering on blasphemy of the holy spirit.
Those who willfully sin after becoming Christians are either not Christians at all or are in willful disobedience against god - and this will lead on to death... not life.
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mad judges for God AGAIN
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Post by mad judges for God AGAIN on Aug 30, 2007 8:36:01 GMT -5
what would you determine as a "willful sin", pray tell?
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Post by Willful sin on Aug 30, 2007 8:43:10 GMT -5
Willful sin....
Example.
As a Christian you know that it is wrong to have an adulterous relationship. Even though you know it is wrong to have an adulterous relationship you precede to have extra marital sex with multiple partners with no shame or remorse for your actions.
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He loves me he loves me not
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Post by He loves me he loves me not on Aug 30, 2007 8:47:40 GMT -5
Lets see.... so what you're saying is.... on that triumphant day when we shall stand before the Almighty one and he takes out his scroll and he says "well now my son.... i see here that on october 17, 2001 you loved me very much so you were saved on that day, october 18 you didnt love me so you werent saved on that day... oh goodness this is too long let me just average all these up... well son looks like you have more sins than love.... sorry.... its hell and damnation for you!!!"
God knew there was NOTHING we could do to please him... that is why he sent his son!!! He knew we could NOT keep the law! Those who were saved by Jesus, believed on him that he could save them, and they repented. Who the hell do you think you are that YOU could do something to please GOD? I mean he is GOD!!!! We are peons and he knows it. That is why he made provision for us.
The only thing that can take our salvation away from us is if we lose our love for God. PERIOD!
The fruit of this love will bring about a service to others etc but our salvation will not be determined by what we have done. It will be determined by in whom we have believed.
It gives you all status doesnt it when you think you know who's saved and who isnt. Big shots. No humility. No spirit of Christ among you.
To not believe in the SAVING grace of Jesus, the minute you accept him into your life... you are denying Christ. "Yeah well i might be saved... i dunno... depends on what im doing... guess i wont know until Jesus comes again... and kicks my butt for being so stupid!!!"
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Post by get out of the box on Aug 30, 2007 8:54:38 GMT -5
Willful sin.... Example. As a Christian you know that it is wrong to have an adulterous relationship. Even though you know it is wrong to have an adulterous relationship you precede to have extra marital sex with multiple partners with no shame or remorse for your actions. and what if I repented after that? would i be saved then? Or does the fact that i willfully sinned take away my salvation forever? what if i lived a life of willful sin and repented on my deathbed... what then? What works did the thief on the cross have under his belt? Wasnt he in paradise with Jesus that day? Please tell me how you explain that?
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nothing wishy washy about it
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Post by nothing wishy washy about it on Aug 30, 2007 9:10:31 GMT -5
Willful sin.... Example. As a Christian you know that it is wrong to have an adulterous relationship. Even though you know it is wrong to have an adulterous relationship you precede to have extra marital sex with multiple partners with no shame or remorse for your actions. 1) and what if I repented after that? would i be saved then? Or does the fact that i willfully sinned take away my salvation forever? what if i lived a life of willful sin and repented on my deathbed... what then? What works did the thief on the cross have under his belt? Wasnt he in paradise with Jesus that day? Please tell me how you explain that? ~~~ As long you repented before death then there is hope of Salvation. But do you know when or what day are going to die? why, do you want to take that chance of waiting for the last minute to repent... what happens if you were to die when your spirit were hardened? Nothing matters but salvation.
The best way is to confess and repent daily.So i will be saved again and if i forget to repent for two weeks, for those two weeks im not saved.... God does not save more than ONCE!
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Post by OzE on Aug 30, 2007 9:17:08 GMT -5
In a previous thread about salvation the question was asked of Bert, Nathan and GiT.
Can I lose my salvation? If so, How?
gloryintruth's answer:
"You can make a false profession; you can be among the people of God but not "of" the people of God, but it is not possible for those who have truly been saved to lose their salvation."
Do you think his (gloryintruth's) belief is misguided and wrong Bert? Or Nathan?
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timber
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Post by timber on Aug 30, 2007 9:58:29 GMT -5
I don't believe in OSAS either. Those who endure to the end shall be saved. My hope is in the Christ, the vine, the fruitful bough, the day spring to whom I must repent, who gives life again and again.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 30, 2007 9:59:14 GMT -5
17 For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance [for] clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
God GAVE us the helmet of salvation and we are instructed to wear it. That helmet doesnt mean that it only gives you HOPE of life/salvation. That would doubting what Jesus did for us or the power in the gift. No it means that it is an ESSENTIAL part of our armor that God has gifted us with and we are to wear it and stand tall and rest ASSURED that we in him forever.
What could be more terrifying than the slightest concern over your place in eternity? There is no room for the slightest doubt on this issue. There are those of you who feel that their helmet is a perishable item; that once God has given it to you it can be lost. That His grace is probationary. That really is an insult to what Jesus has done for us.
When we doubt our "helmet", then we doubt God's saving grace and power. It is when we take off that helmet, because we feel we have to earn it first, that we are truly in danger of death because Satan will fill your head with lying thoughts, fears and doubts. Remember this: How many of your sins were yet future at the cross? All of them.
Put on your helmet and let the world know of your security in Christ. Walk with your head up, free of fear and doubt.
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Post by I am hooked on Aug 30, 2007 10:48:29 GMT -5
Well you got me....
Tonight I am gonna go out to the bar, drink till I'm seeing double, and then take two guys home and have a threesome....
And then the next night I am gonna do the same, but then have a lesbian threesome...
And then I am gonna murder my husband...
But thats ok... Because I am saved...
Hallelujah
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Post by I am hooked on Aug 30, 2007 10:51:58 GMT -5
Oh yeah I forgot to say that each night I repent... SO everything I do is forgiven... So it doesn't matter....
Other things to add to my list of things to do...
Do drugs Disown my child Kill my dog Get a tattoo and many many body piercings Get addicted to internet porn Get involved in BDSM and bestiality...
there is more just gotta think of it... But I will repent of it all so it doesn't matter
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Post by this sounds on Aug 30, 2007 11:33:39 GMT -5
Oh yeah I forgot to say that each night I repent... SO everything I do is forgiven... So it doesn't matter.... Other things to add to my list of things to do... Do drugs Disown my child Kill my dog Get a tattoo and many many body piercings Get addicted to internet porn Get involved in BDSM and bestiality... there is more just gotta think of it... But I will repent of it all so it doesn't matter This use of extreme examples is nothing but a strawman argument. It really does look like something bert would post.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 30, 2007 11:54:33 GMT -5
Oh yeah I forgot to say that each night I repent... SO everything I do is forgiven... So it doesn't matter.... Other things to add to my list of things to do... Do drugs Disown my child Kill my dog Get a tattoo and many many body piercings Get addicted to internet porn Get involved in BDSM and bestiality... there is more just gotta think of it... But I will repent of it all so it doesn't matter ah my child. You do forget that with that helmet of salvation comes the breastplate of righteousness!
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 30, 2007 13:01:58 GMT -5
To continue my point:
Righteousness is something we are, not something we do. Righteousness within us affects what we do, but what we do does not make us righteous.
Religious righteousness can save no one. God says that this type of righteousness is as filthy rags. External forms of righteousness have always competed with the true faith in Jesus as the means of salvation and security.
Putting on His breastplate of righteousness is not "putting on" our own good works, integrity, or honesty. It is not "putting on" Bible reading and prayer. It is not "putting on" church/meeting attendance.
"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith." Philippians 3:9
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:6, 9-10
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Post by _ on Aug 30, 2007 13:20:43 GMT -5
1. Classic Arminianism• One must persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers can lose their faith.
• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.
“The believer who loses his faith is damned.” 2. Antinomianism• One need not persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers can lose their faith.
• Those who lose their faith are saved, since they once believed.
“The believer who loses his faith is saved.” 3. Classic Calvinism• One must persevere in faith to be saved.
• True believers cannot lose their faith, since it’s God’s gift.
• Those dying without faith in Christ are condemned.
• Those who “lose” their faith never had it to begin with.
• God will preserve true believers and they will be saved.
“The ‘believer’ who loses his faith never really had it—or at least it wasn’t in Jesus.”
Proponents of the first two approaches quote biblical references, but each must strain to explain away the other group's biblical data. How can an Arminian read Romans 8, then tell true believers that they may screw up and go to hell??? Then again, how can Charles Stanley read Hebrews 6 and 10 and tell unbelievers who once professed faith not to worry, that they will be saved??? Any true biblical teaching must “fit” with ALL the biblical data, without pitting one text against another and without having to explain away a single “jot or tittle” of God's inerrant Word. I believe that only the classical Calvinist model takes into account all of the biblical data. Arminians are right when they say the Bible teaches that only those who persevere will be saved, and they’re right in accusing Antinomians of easy-believism and cheap grace. Antinomians (they wouldn’t use the term) are right in telling committed believers that they are secure in Christ and “once saved, always saved.” But both of these views are wrong is assuming that a true believer can lose his faith and fall away from Christ. Faith is “a gift of God—not by works, lest any man boast.” Paul was confident that, since Christ had begun a good work in believers, He would continue that work until completion (Phil. 1). John said that those who fell away were never really true Christians, since true believers don't leave the faith (1 John 2:19). Scripture teaches that believers must persevere until the end, but also that believers will persevere until the end by God's grace. As the Westminster Assembly concluded, Christians might temporarily yield to Satan's temptations, even to excess, but like Peter when he denied Christ three times, God will still restore and preserve the faith of the Christian, a faith which God gave in the first place! Peter went on to be chief among the apostles! Two biblical principles must be held side-by-side: 1. You Must Persevere until the End: God's Requirement of His PeopleGod does not merely command us to begin to believe for a time, and then fall away. He requires us to continue to believe until the end, living lives of repentance and covenant faithfulness. Granted, He does not ask for a perfect faith, but He does ask for a real faith, one that produces real, lasting change. • Colossians 1:21-23 • 1 John 1:5-10; 3:3-6 • Hebrews 10:26-31 • Hebrews 12:1 2. You Will Persevere Until the End: God's Preservation of His PeopleWe will persevere because God preserves us. God will keep us from falling—not one will be lost of all those who belong to the Son. True believers are not able to leave Christ, for Christ is at work within them. • John 6:38-40 • John 10:28-29 • Romans 8:28-39 • Philippians 1:4-6 • Philippians 2:12-13 • 1 John 2:19 This first set of texts cannot be used to refute the second (Arminianism); nor can the second set of texts be used to refute the first (cheap grace). The point that makes the two compatible is the biblical teaching that faith (while commanded of everyone) is a gift from God to His elect. If faith is simply a human action of a free will, then it can be lost. But if saving faith is God's gift, then it cannot be lost. Can professing Christians fall away? Yes, and they will perish. Can true Christians fall away? No, for they are kept by the invincible power of God in Christ. The Bible teaches us that professing Christians who leave the faith were never truly believers (1 John 2:19; and notice the qualification even in Hebrews 10:39).
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Post by _ on Aug 30, 2007 20:34:35 GMT -5
1) Are you saying true Christians don't need to REPENT of their sins because they are kept by the invincible power of God? True Christians will repent just as they will do good works... Reread the post...
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