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Post by Recently Self Xed on Aug 29, 2007 15:23:01 GMT -5
I snaked Bert's website a few weeks ago and have now read the entire website. I have also read about 80% of his (still available) posts here on the TMB. Whew. Could this guy be any more dedicated to twisting scripture, rewriting the history of religion in general, including the biblical churches, and completely revising the history of his own church? Wow! Talk about your PR jobs. This guy is an expert at political spin. He could make Hitler look like an apostle, maybe even the second coming.
I've created this thread because in all of Bert's writing, one thing stands above the rest. Bert goes to great lengths to imply that Truth is the only way to achieve salvation; He never states this explicitly; In fact, he goes to great lengths to avoid saying it directly.
My question is this: It is a fact that at least some of the friends believe that their church is the only way to achieve salvation. Why are these people so afraid to admit this openly? Why must they dance around the issue forever?
Are there any of the friends here on the TMB who believe that their church is the only way to achieve salvation and are willing to openly admit it?
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Post by not even on Aug 29, 2007 16:09:43 GMT -5
Bert, Git, and Nat9, think that by typing the scripture and acting "godly", (they actually come across as self rigtheous), they will convince people of the 2x2s sanctity.
They never answer questions directly and, as you mentioned, go to great lengths to avoid admitting their own beliefs.
Truly I don't understand why people even bother arguing with this nonsense. Too much credit is given to the air they share.
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the simple truth about 2x2ists
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Post by the simple truth about 2x2ists on Aug 29, 2007 16:21:08 GMT -5
My question is this: It is a fact that at least some of the friends believe that their church is the only way to achieve salvation. Why are these people so afraid to admit this openly? Why must they dance around the issue forever? Given that hardcore 2x2ists, such as GIT, nathan, bert, et al, do believe that salvation is available ONLY through their church, (ie upon professing through the workers), and that hardcore 2x2ists also are known to believe that their church is the "one true church" with all other churches being automatically false, the following paradox is created by this situation: - If the 2x2ists admit to their belief, they subsequently condemn themselves (judge not, let ye be yourself judged). Realizing this, they cannot admit to such beliefs.
- 2x2ists who adhere to such beliefs, yet deny holding such beliefs, make themselves out to be liars.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2007 18:24:09 GMT -5
Hey Nathan! It's Bert Bashing time now, seeing how GIT has retired. Your next.
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_
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Post by _ on Aug 29, 2007 18:25:23 GMT -5
not bashing you... but challenging your beliefs... which you promote here and on your website...
Do you believe it is wrong to challenge and question your beliefs?
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Post by junia on Aug 29, 2007 20:49:10 GMT -5
Hey Nathan! It's Bert Bashing time now, seeing how GIT has retired. Your next. Not to make this thread about me, but I've been participating here longer than GIT or Bert, (the same as Nate), but I've yet to be on the receiving end of a single personal attack. I've had many disagreements, and one person even impersonated me for a while, but so far nothing. If this generates one, bring it on! FYI, I attend meetings. Now back to our regular scheduled programming.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2007 20:54:37 GMT -5
Well, Maybe Truth Isn't The Only Way!!
Perhaps we should try calumny, distortion, deceit, deception, defamation, detraction, dishonesty, disinformation, evasion, fable, fabrication, falsehood, falseness, falsification, falsity, fib, fiction, fish story, forgery, fraudulence, guile, hyperbole, inaccuracy, invention, libel, mendacity, misrepresentation, misstatement, myth, obloquy, perjury, prevarication, revilement, reviling, slander, subterfuge, tale, tall story, terminological inexactitude, vilification, white lie and whoppers.
This was sent to you courtesy of thesaurus.com ;D ;D ;D
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berts modus operandi
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Post by berts modus operandi on Aug 29, 2007 22:08:57 GMT -5
Well folks, if you haven't figured it out yet, this is a perfect example.
Bert is completely unable to participate in any type of discussion without resorting to extremes. When challenged, he brings out extreme examples and implies that his opposition somehow supports those extremes in a feeble attempt to justify is own faulty reasoning.
Not that there was ever any doubt about the lack of credibility bert brings to this forum, this example is pointed out for the benefit of those not yet familiar with bert's modus operandi.
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Post by ii on Aug 30, 2007 4:02:06 GMT -5
My question is this: It is a fact that at least some of the friends believe that their church is the only way to achieve salvation. Why are these people so afraid to admit this openly? Why must they dance around the issue forever? Given that hardcore 2x2ists, such as GIT, nathan, bert, et al, do believe that salvation is available ONLY through their church, (ie upon professing through the workers), and that hardcore 2x2ists also are known to believe that their church is the "one true church" with all other churches being automatically false, the following paradox is created by this situation: - If the 2x2ists admit to their belief, they subsequently condemn themselves (judge not, let ye be yourself judged). Realizing this, they cannot admit to such beliefs.
- 2x2ists who adhere to such beliefs, yet deny holding such beliefs, make themselves out to be liars.
SO? why is it a so much of a worry to you? feeling a little insecure are you?
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Post by What Hat on Aug 30, 2007 4:20:19 GMT -5
Given that hardcore 2x2ists, such as GIT, nathan, bert, et al, do believe that salvation is available ONLY through their church, (ie upon professing through the workers), and that hardcore 2x2ists also are known to believe that their church is the "one true church" with all other churches being automatically false, the following paradox is created by this situation: - If the 2x2ists admit to their belief, they subsequently condemn themselves (judge not, let ye be yourself judged). Realizing this, they cannot admit to such beliefs.
- 2x2ists who adhere to such beliefs, yet deny holding such beliefs, make themselves out to be liars.
SO? why is it a so much of a worry to you? feeling a little insecure are you? ii, How in the world do you "read between the lines" that insecurity is behind this person's postings?
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Post by ii on Aug 30, 2007 4:47:29 GMT -5
SO? why is it a so much of a worry to you? feeling a little insecure are you? ii, How in the world do you "read between the lines" that insecurity is behind this person's postings? with me rose coloured tinted glasses ;D
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Post by ii on Aug 30, 2007 4:49:21 GMT -5
SO? why is it a so much of a worry to you? feeling a little insecure are you? ii, How in the world do you "read between the lines" that insecurity is behind this person's postings? oh by the way it was a question
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The simple truth about 2x2ists
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Post by The simple truth about 2x2ists on Aug 30, 2007 8:59:29 GMT -5
SO? why is it a so much of a worry to you? feeling a little insecure are you? I'm not worried. No.
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Post by las logged out on Aug 30, 2007 9:07:28 GMT -5
Well, Maybe Truth Isn't The Only Way!! Perhaps we should try calumny, distortion, deceit, deception, defamation, detraction, dishonesty, disinformation, evasion, fable, fabrication, falsehood, falseness, falsification, falsity, fib, fiction, fish story, forgery, fraudulence, guile, hyperbole, inaccuracy, invention, libel, mendacity, misrepresentation, misstatement, myth, obloquy, perjury, prevarication, revilement, reviling, slander, subterfuge, tale, tall story, terminological inexactitude, vilification, white lie and whoppers. This was sent to you courtesy of thesaurus.com ;D ;D ;D Bert do you believe Jesus is God almighty
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savedbyblood
Junior Member
Eventually we'll figure it all out!
Posts: 57
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Post by savedbyblood on Aug 30, 2007 22:33:43 GMT -5
Wow, seems I haven't made any enemies... yet. Jesus Christ did not set out to become enemy with "the world" but the "world" chose to become enemy with Him. I am a firm 2by2 so all can consider me in with in with Bert, Nathan, GIT et.al. I have had my time of temptation. Jesus stood beside me.
I am "hardcore" in that I believe that this is the Way Jesus preached yet open minded on some issues, especially on the fallibility some of the Saints and Workers. They, as we all are only human and I have seen much unwillingness to admit that being a 2by2 or a Methodist or whatever makes us immune to sin. But we are forgiven with repentance and if this means to suffer punishment of man's laws then so it should be.
Jesus did no less and with no sin.
In Mark 9 Jesus was teaching his disciples and John said: 38: ...Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39: But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40: For he that is not against us is on our part.
Similar verses are contained in Matthew and for this I cannot believe that WE are the ONLY True Way. I cannot judge others because of the teachings on judging others.
Some 2by2's are taught this belief of "the only way" from a very early age, at least in my experience. I believe that some will not admit this belief openly for fear of just what is happening on this board. There is attack after attack not only on the belief but personal attacks that have no place here and no place in any discussion of religious differences.
In the New Testament, all of the people touched by those "outside," eg. the one casting out devils in Jesus name but not following "us" are cases of healing of spirits and/or illness. The one incidence that I can remember offhand (look out! here come the javelins!) concerns the Ethiopian eunuch to whom Philip taught the Gospel and Baptized! A man hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ through an early Worker! Cool!
Those of us 2by2's must persevere. We are here because we want to be and feel that it might be worth a few barbs and childish insults if we can restore a lost sheep to the fold. This is our way of ministering.
We must understand that some of the exes are bitter people. It is not our place to judge them.
Some exes have the Spirit of Christ and it is not our place to judge them.
The "drive by posters" as Nathan has aptly named them are just forum freaks with a penchant for stirring up trouble where ever Google takes them. The ability to post here is a gold mine for these folks. Just look around, find a good target and let fly the arrows. Just shoot at GIT or BERT or NATHAN like most here do and you can't go wrong! Ignorance is a disease and we should not judge those who are mentally challenged.
Some who post here are just plain evil... God shall Judge.
Each of should be grounded in their beliefs weather 2by2 or ex or interested Guest. This is what strengthens the fellowship of Christ. Each of us should be more tolerant of each other (As Shrek said, "Yeah, like that's ever gonna happen!) and present ourselves as reasoning, reasonable people.
Acts:17:2: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts:18:4: And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
There is no record of discord or arguing and the Jews hated the Christians! What a perfect example of the way for us all to present ourselves here.
The fights and insults here are almost as fun as Jerry Springer who I had to see every day at work last year because we had a TV in our waiting room and my boss LOVED the stuff! But lets leave the insults and such to the ignorant (whoops I judged, I'm gonna get shot now) drive by's.
Peace in Him,
SBB
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Post by oh great on Aug 30, 2007 23:12:52 GMT -5
oh, it must be so wonderful to be in the ONE TRUE CHURCH.
oh, it must be so wonderful to be the only people going to heaven simply because you are 2x2s.
Are you people for real? Obviously not. Not if you actually believe this crap.
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Post by Ken Coolidge on Aug 31, 2007 17:56:26 GMT -5
Well, Maybe Truth (2x2) would have been described at one time or another with Bert's very perceptive use adjectives from the thesaurus as enumerated below
Perhaps we should try calumny, distortion, deceit, deception, defamation, detraction, dishonesty, disinformation, evasion, fable, fabrication, falsehood, falseness, falsification, falsity, fib, fiction, fish story, forgery, fraudulence, guile, hyperbole, inaccuracy, invention, libel, mendacity, misrepresentation, misstatement, myth, obloquy, perjury, prevarication, revilement, reviling, slander, subterfuge, tale, tall story, terminological inexactitude, vilification, white lie and whoppers.
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Post by las logged out on Aug 31, 2007 20:23:00 GMT -5
Well, Maybe Truth Isn't The Only Way!! Perhaps we should try calumny, distortion, deceit, deception, defamation, detraction, dishonesty, disinformation, evasion, fable, fabrication, falsehood, falseness, falsification, falsity, fib, fiction, fish story, forgery, fraudulence, guile, hyperbole, inaccuracy, invention, libel, mendacity, misrepresentation, misstatement, myth, obloquy, perjury, prevarication, revilement, reviling, slander, subterfuge, tale, tall story, terminological inexactitude, vilification, white lie and whoppers. This was sent to you courtesy of thesaurus.com ;D ;D ;D To Bert Yes bert there are many ways for sure where will they led us? I want to put my faith in Jesus the man who walked upon the water...I want to put my faith in Jesus cause he left not a bone behind Others are in the grave and there bones can be dug up
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Post by recycle on Aug 31, 2007 20:30:29 GMT -5
Jesus was GREEN! He cleaned up after himself and left no bone behind!
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Post by as I c it on Sept 1, 2007 21:50:58 GMT -5
savedbyblood,
ah...remember Paul and Peter and the argument that they had....
And I don't think Jesus and the Pharisee had a lot of "niceness" between them...Calling the religious leaders "hypocrites" might have had something to do with it....
Nonetheless, I agree. Whether we are 2x2's or exes we should be able to carry on a conversation without getting nasty over it.
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