|
Post by Julie on Aug 25, 2007 0:31:30 GMT -5
B&R in the "truth" Never professed --it's still so very confusing to me; I've been fed so many this and that why I should be with the people of the "truth" that it's serious business, and not to listen to the "worldly false preachers"; that I'm afraid to even think about even searching for another "church" tho I've been invited to sooooooo many so called ; worldly churches" that I just shrug it off or pretend that I belong to another church than what I was B&R in. Did Jesus have a "Church" or a Shed or a Tent to have anyone to attend his following? I have such a hard time even thinking about this. I just can't seem to get over this hump of "wondering" what is real and what is the truth and does Jesus really care where I go or if I go to church wherever or not go anywhere!!! . I probably sound "troubled" as the workers would think; but I'm not; I just don't particulary think going to meetings is the one and only way! Can anyone shed a little light on this dilemma? I want to go to church with "liked minded" but how does one know??
|
|
therose
Junior Member
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
Posts: 135
|
Post by therose on Aug 25, 2007 1:04:58 GMT -5
Just remember that you are His church and it is what is within you - not a building. I personally do not believe (nor did I ever believe it as long as I was a 2X2), that God is only going to allow those the have heard "the truth" into Heaven. He loves all his children. All we have to do is accept Him as our Saviour and believe that Christ died for us on the cross and there is no way anyone can convince me that our God - who is a loving God - would allow people on this earth that have never had an opportunity to ever even hear a worker or of a worker to be sent to a lost eternity. That is not what a loving father would do. God dwells in the hearts of his people -- all His people - not just 2X2's. He wants what is best for his children.
|
|
|
Post by Julie on Aug 25, 2007 7:08:09 GMT -5
Thank you!
|
|
|
Post by jh62unlogged on Aug 25, 2007 9:15:55 GMT -5
My father, who was an old cowboy, used to say that he thought God could hear him just as well if he was on his horse in the middle of a pasture as He would if he were sitting in a church. I happen to agree.
|
|
|
Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Aug 25, 2007 9:20:03 GMT -5
In one of his letters (forgive me for not saying which, I'm hardly awake at this point), Paul tells one of the churches to continue meeting together. Fellowship is very important, but I dont think that necessarily means you need to commit to one church.
I think God guides us all to a source of fellowship. It might be a small gathering of friends (we gather with a like-minded couple every Friday night), it might be a bible study group, it might be a Sunday service morning or evening, or a Wednesday night gathering. It might be here and there and unplanned... but whatever the case, fellowship is VERY important.
We need people who encourage us, help us, and who can point out when we're straying.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2007 11:51:28 GMT -5
In one of his letters (forgive me for not saying which, I'm hardly awake at this point), Paul tells one of the churches to continue meeting together. Fellowship is very important, but I dont think that necessarily means you need to commit to one church. I think God guides us all to a source of fellowship. It might be a small gathering of friends (we gather with a like-minded couple every Friday night), it might be a bible study group, it might be a Sunday service morning or evening, or a Wednesday night gathering. It might be here and there and unplanned... but whatever the case, fellowship is VERY important. We need people who encourage us, help us, and who can point out when we're straying. I agree that fellowship is important -- but there is nothing in the story of Jesus to support the 2x2 idea that there is any Christian virtue in 'selective fellowship'. 2x2ism nurtures the illusion that there is virtue in very, very selectively picking out the locations(building constructions) and people that are sufficiently 'righteous' for my presence. --And that it is exclusively these locations where 'my fellowship' can be shared. The 2x2 position is that fellowship with less worthy (ordinary) folks (in a less worthy building construction) is beneath their moral principles. Rather amazing that this kind of thinking can be regarded as Christian. Edgar It would be beneath 2x2 principle to have fellowship with the population residing in jail, or park bench folks, or immigrant outcasts. or folks involved in other religions -- etc etc. Just think of the kind of folks we read that Jesus found it important to have fellowship with!!
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Aug 25, 2007 13:15:43 GMT -5
Julie - You're asking some good questions. It took years for some of us to figure out the answers. Now they are much easier to come by, since the struggles of many to find the answers have been written down. Have you read any of the books about the 2x2s? Like: The Secret Sect; Reflections; Reflected Truth; The Church Without a Name? They can be purchased from RIS at: workersect.org/2x206.htmlDo you know when they started the ministry and meetings, they didn't believe they were the only way? See chapter 7 of my book at: home.earthlink.net/%7Etruth333/index-WmIBook.htmlAre you aware the meetings system was started in 1897 by a man named William Irvine in Ireland? And that it doesn't go back historically to Jesus and his disciples? I care... Cherie
|
|
|
Post by texas dude on Aug 25, 2007 14:10:11 GMT -5
Edgar,
I certainly appreciate you painting everyone with an extremely broad brush - can I tell you how many times I, or others whom I know, have visited with those in prison (or any of the other places that would be "beneath the 2x2 principles") -
Could you please point out these "principles" to me? In my 40+ years I've never heard or read them.
And a true believer knows that no one is 'below' them - only our God can judge - This is a new "position" to me and I'm very saddened that you've been led to believe it is a principle among those who strive to follow Christ's teachings.
TD
|
|
speaking of misquotes
Guest
|
Post by speaking of misquotes on Aug 25, 2007 16:02:39 GMT -5
Edgar, I certainly appreciate you painting everyone with an extremely broad brush - can I tell you how many times I, or others whom I know, have visited with those in prison (or any of the other places that would be "beneath the 2x2 principles") - Could you please point out these "principles" to me? In my 40+ years I've never heard or read them. And a true believer knows that no one is 'below' them - only our God can judge - This is a new "position" to me and I'm very saddened that you've been led to believe it is a principle among those who strive to follow Christ's teachings. TD texas dude, Now that you have proclaimed your position on that high horse of yours, it would probably rock your world if someone had the audacity to highlight your own actions. You see, you accused edgar of generalizing. Then in your last sentence you did the same thing even while misquoting Edgar. So, it would seem that the view from your high horse is rather limited, since it sounds like you're probably riding a little hobby horse. Good Day. Freddy2
|
|
|
Post by Johnny DeRaad on Aug 25, 2007 16:09:45 GMT -5
Edgar, I certainly appreciate you painting everyone with an extremely broad brush - can I tell you how many times I, or others whom I know, have visited with those in prison (or any of the other places that would be "beneath the 2x2 principles") - Could you please point out these "principles" to me? In my 40+ years I've never heard or read them. And a true believer knows that no one is 'below' them - only our God can judge - This is a new "position" to me and I'm very saddened that you've been led to believe it is a principle among those who strive to follow Christ's teachings. TD The average citizen does not just casually stop in to the local penitentiary and visit someone.. it's generally a rather lengthy and vigorous process to get your name on an inmates visitation list. Especially so for a State or federal institution, a little less so for the poor slob in the county jail. What you didn't say was what your purpose was in going to the institution?? .. .just to see a son or daughter of the friends who screwed up?? .. or was it to take your ministry to the prison, with open invitation to all the inmates to hear the Gospel message, on a regular basis??. . something to that effect is ministry, and ministering. ..visiting that one individual is being a friend, helper, etc. . . . .and no..I'm not defining ministry to just what I'm saying here.. but a general picture ..or maybe I should say ..ministry as it should be. . IMO
|
|
|
Post by defining terms on Aug 25, 2007 16:26:03 GMT -5
you've been led to believe it is a principle among those who strive to follow Christ's teachings. Are you talking about all Christians? Hey, that's a broad brush you just used there, texas dude. Hypocrite.
|
|
|
Post by Texas Dude on Aug 25, 2007 16:39:25 GMT -5
Thanks for your discourse Johnny and Freddy... 1. Freddy, I'm certainly sorry if I came across as being on a high/hobby horse - guess I was a little thin-skinned when I responded earlier to Edgar's post. Self-righteousness is not a good thing, and if I offended you as coming across in that vain, again, I apologize and will try to structure my comments in a less offensive vein in the future. I'm still struggling, though, to determine where I mis-quoted E. Unless it was where I use the term 'below' vs 'less worthy' - for the lesson in semantics, I'm appreciative, and will certainly try to do a better job of cutting and pasting in the future - as a new poster, I thought we were discussing theory, theology, etc - having not read every post, I guess I didn't realize the standards that have been set here - I'll not post again, until I have had chance to read some of the other postings in order to see the accepted manner of discourse - thanks again for taking the time to visit with me. And by the way, my high horse is not rocked - I've been around for a while and know, from my experience in the business world, that if you're surrounded by 'yes-men' nothing ever changes - I love hearing various view points, even if I don't agree with them - I hope you feel the same.
2. Johnny, you're correct - it's not an easy process to become a visitor to an institution of incarceration - particularly if you do not have a relationship with the inmate, and you are unable to show that you are affiliated with a 'known and accepted organization' - (quoting a letter from one superintendent). I'm trying to think of those who I've visited, and don't actually recall it being the relatives of the friends who have screwed up - not that I wouldn't, there just haven't been any in the areas where I've lived. I have primarily visited with those who knew someone with whom I was acquainted and I had been asked if I would go and visit with them. And the thought of actually arranging a prison-wide gospel meeting invitation hadn't really occurred - not being one of the worker's I guess I didn't really think it was my place to do that, but if any of the inmates had ever made such a request, I would do whatever I could to facilitate such. And I think we can minister to both individually and in groups - I will say that I feel that I have received similarly equal spiritual aid in both larger gatherings and in one on one fellowship with both friend and worker.
I hope everyone is having a wonderful sunny Saturday - my best to all. And as I said before, I'll refrain from posting again until I've had the opportunity to familarize myself with the posting criteria here - thanks in advance for your patience with me. Bless you all.
TD
|
|
|
Post by Help me Freddy on Aug 25, 2007 16:44:46 GMT -5
PS - Freddy, would you mind helping me with where I was generalizing? I re-read my post and really couldn't determine where I might have given you that impression - unless it was my comment about true believers - if that is your point of contention, may I ask where specifically you take issue with that statement? Based on Jesus' response to sinners, publicans, adulterers, etc, I guess I felt confident in stating that a true follower of Jesus wouldn't not look down on inidivduals based on circumstance- of course that may have not been where you were taking issue with me, so I'll wait for your kind response.
Thanks
|
|
Texas Dude has left the house
Guest
|
Post by Texas Dude has left the house on Aug 25, 2007 16:47:56 GMT -5
Posted by defining terms on Today at 4:26pm Today at 2:10pm, texas dude wrote:you've been led to believe it is a principle among those who strive to follow Christ's teachings. Are you talking about all Christians? Hey, that's a broad brush you just used there, texas dude. Hypocrite. Well that was interesting - I'm guessing after having read a few posts that this is not a board for those who are interested in free discourse - my apologies to Edgar for any offense given previously - my best to you all in life's journey. TD
|
|
|
Post by las logged out on Aug 25, 2007 16:53:27 GMT -5
In one of his letters (forgive me for not saying which, I'm hardly awake at this point), Paul tells one of the churches to continue meeting together. Fellowship is very important, but I dont think that necessarily means you need to commit to one church. I think God guides us all to a source of fellowship. It might be a small gathering of friends (we gather with a like-minded couple every Friday night), it might be a bible study group, it might be a Sunday service morning or evening, or a Wednesday night gathering. It might be here and there and unplanned... but whatever the case, fellowship is VERY important. We need people who encourage us, help us, and who can point out when we're straying. I agree that fellowship is important -- but there is nothing in the story of Jesus to support the 2x2 idea that there is any Christian virtue in 'selective fellowship'. 2x2ism nurtures the illusion that there is virtue in very, very selectively picking out the locations(building constructions) and people that are sufficiently 'righteous' for my presence. --And that it is exclusively these locations where 'my fellowship' can be shared. The 2x2 position is that fellowship with less worthy (ordinary) folks (in a less worthy building construction) is beneath their moral principles. Rather amazing that this kind of thinking can be regarded as Christian. Edgar It would be beneath 2x2 principle to have fellowship with the population residing in jail, or park bench folks, or immigrant outcasts. or folks involved in other religions -- etc etc. Just think of the kind of folks we read that Jesus found it important to have fellowship with!! Right on Edgar maybe them 2x2s will get one day
|
|
|
Post by las logged out on Aug 25, 2007 16:58:12 GMT -5
Edgar, I certainly appreciate you painting everyone with an extremely broad brush - can I tell you how many times I, or others whom I know, have visited with those in prison (or any of the other places that would be "beneath the 2x2 principles") - Could you please point out these "principles" to me? In my 40+ years I've never heard or read them. And a true believer knows that no one is 'below' them - only our God can judge - This is a new "position" to me and I'm very saddened that you've been led to believe it is a principle among those who strive to follow Christ's teachings. TD Edgar were you ever visiting anyone in prison while you were a 2x2 ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2007 14:54:47 GMT -5
Edgar, I certainly appreciate you painting everyone with an extremely broad brush - can I tell you how many times I, or others whom I know, have visited with those in prison (or any of the other places that would be "beneath the 2x2 principles") - Could you please point out these "principles" to me? In my 40+ years I've never heard or read them. And a true believer knows that no one is 'below' them - only our God can judge - This is a new "position" to me and I'm very saddened that you've been led to believe it is a principle among those who strive to follow Christ's teachings. TD Edgar were you ever visiting anyone in prison while you were a 2x2 ? I actually did one time when I saw a Red Cross add looking for an English speaking person to visit an American in a Swedish Jail. --- However at that time, in true 2x2 spirit, the only purpose I had was to 'help him get right' never to admire what there was of the Christian spirit in his life. Of recent years I have found it a prívelage to get a closer look at some very beautiful Christian qualities in the lives of some of the people in these places. I find it often strengthening for my own soul.
|
|