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Post by jewish on Aug 20, 2007 22:13:23 GMT -5
Do you think the Jew's religion is the true church? After all, they are God's chosen and He will always take care of them. We even see that happening today.
Israel: God's Chosen People The Jewish people are God's chosen people. In a world where there is increasing anti-Semitism, God is still in control. There is absolutely no evidence in the Bible where God rejects the Jewish people as His chosen people. There is no evidence where God is for anti-Semitism. In fact, the roots of Christianity is in Judaism. In the Book of Exodus, the same God that Christians worshipped the last 2000 years is the exact same God as the "Lord God of the Hebrews" (Exodus 3:18). The Bible was written by men and inspired by God thousands of years before Christianity. The Jews were held in captivity by the Egyptians for over 400 years.
God constantly reminded the Jewish people, who were called Israelites in the Old Testament of their freedom from slavery. He was the same God that commanded the people to worship Him and obey all of His commandments and walk in His judgments. Even though God's people has disobeyed the Lord, they have been forgiven by Him after they repented and returned to Him. They are God's people by covenant. To Abram (Abraham), He said that He will make of him a great nation. (Genesis 12:2) He has also said that He will bless those who bless them and curse those that curse Israel. (Gen. 12:3) Throughout history, every nation that has oppressed or cursed the Jewish people are either no longer in existence or have had to suffer various consequences as a result. Two examples that come to mind are Germany and ancient Egypt.
While it is true that many of the Jewish people have rejected Jesus, there is never any excuse for bigotry and anti-Semitism. Many of the first Christian believers, all 12 disciples, the writers of the Bible, and Jesus Himself are all Jews. Paul, a Jew, wrote most of the entire New Testament or some of the books were based on His letters. "Salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22). Jesus came to save the Jewish people. He is still the Messiah of the Jewish people. Romans 1:16 says that "It is the power of God unto salvation to the Jew first, then to the Gentile."
The birth and ministry of the Messiah has been prophesied in the Old Testament books of Psalms, Isaiah, and Zechariah. Isaiah 45:17 says, " [But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end." Israel will always be God's chosen people. In Revelation 7:4-8, 144,000 Jewish will have the seals of God written on their foreheads. God will not break His covenant with the Jewish people, nor will He. In Isaiah 46: 13, Israel is "my glory". In Israel 49:3, Israel is God's servant, in whom they will be glorified. Isaiah 49:6 also says, "And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth." Do not believe the lies that God is not the God of the Jewish people or it is okay to hate them because "they killed Jesus."
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 20, 2007 22:28:55 GMT -5
With the coming of Jesus the promise to Abraham was fulfilled. Now the history of God's chosen people is no longer the history of a literal nation. It is now a spiritual kingdom of all those who accept Jesus into their life.
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 20, 2007 22:34:35 GMT -5
even me? cool !!
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 20, 2007 22:40:29 GMT -5
He might have to make an exception for you deary... ;D ;D
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Post by jh62 on Aug 20, 2007 22:40:57 GMT -5
I believe the Jews are chosen for a purpose, just as I believe Christians are chosen for a purpose. I don't believe Christians have replaced Jews (to be more correct, all 12 tribes of Israel, and not just the Jews), but we've been grafted in to God's family. If we look to a certain group to be the only "truly chosen", I think we're heading in the wrong direction. I don't believe any group can bring salvation, only God. Maybe there will come a day when there are no divisions of religion, and we can "all be one", just as Jesus stated.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 20, 2007 22:58:41 GMT -5
I believe the Jews are chosen for a purpose, just as I believe Christians are chosen for a purpose. I don't believe Christians have replaced Jews (to be more correct, all 12 tribes of Israel, and not just the Jews), but we've been grafted in to God's family. If we look to a certain group to be the only "truly chosen", I think we're heading in the wrong direction. I don't believe any group can bring salvation, only God. Maybe there will come a day when there are no divisions of religion, and we can "all be one", just as Jesus stated. I have to agree with you there. I dont believe in "replacement theology" either. You are correct when you say each have their own purpose. I think after the tribulation God will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel. I don't think the church has replaced Israel in God's plan, we have just been grafted into it, as you mentioned. God has not forgotten Israel, and one day he will restore it as it says in Revelation and Romans 11, to his intended role for the nation.
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 20, 2007 23:27:26 GMT -5
He might have to make an exception for you deary... ;D ;D .......hmmmmm.... ;D
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Post by diet coke on Aug 20, 2007 23:32:12 GMT -5
God has not forgotten Israel, and one day he will restore it as it says in Revelation and Romans 11, to his intended role for the nation. This is a topic that makes me cringe. Do you promote war in Israel? Are we allowing the Bible to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, at the expense of hatred and killing? Christianity is a good thing, but when it begins to promote warfare, it is definitely out of its place.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 20, 2007 23:37:45 GMT -5
The bible clearly states that God will restore Israel. How can we question that?
Personally i dont condone war of any kind.
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Post by jh62 on Aug 21, 2007 0:18:51 GMT -5
I don't see how anyone could think you were promoting war, wingsofaneagle! I do believe it will be as the bible says and there will be wars and rumors of wars until the end. I don't think that's "promoting" it, but just the belief that's the way it will be.
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Post by Skeptic Al on Aug 21, 2007 2:13:02 GMT -5
I don't see how anyone could think you were promoting war, wingsofaneagle! I do believe it will be as the bible says and there will be wars and rumors of wars until the end. I don't think that's "promoting" it, but just the belief that's the way it will be. That whole "wars and rumors of war" thing and "earthquakes in diverse places" has got to be one of the lamest prophecies ever written. After all, can you think of any time in history where there WEREN'T wars, rumors of wars, and/or earthquakes in various places?! And yet, people today exclaim that the end must be near because there are wars and earthquakes...just like people were exclaiming 100 years ago...500 years ago...2000 years ago!
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pete
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Post by pete on Aug 21, 2007 2:22:57 GMT -5
Hmmmm, did anyone ever stop to think that the person(s) who wrote the scriptures claiming the Israelites are God's chosen people were, um, maybe of Israeli descent?
Can you say "prejudiced influence"?
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Aug 21, 2007 8:32:15 GMT -5
We are still in the 'time of the Gentiles'...where all those not yet saved still have an opportunity to acknowledge Christ. After that the Jews will 'see' Jesus Christ as their messiah. He will appear to them. Hi Pete, the reason the Jewish people are chosen is it originated with the 'blessing' that spoken over Isaac and the 'curse' over Ishmael. Hi Diet coke, we could not stop it if we tried.Bible prophecy will be fulfilled regardless of us. God is a God of war and we as his people are supposed to be warriors for Christ. Involved in spiritual warfare whether we realise or understand it.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 21, 2007 11:12:58 GMT -5
Hmmmm, did anyone ever stop to think that the person(s) who wrote the scriptures claiming the Israelites are God's chosen people were, um, maybe of Israeli descent? Can you say "prejudiced influence"? For someone who wanted to promote their own nation, why on earth would they write about all their moral backslidings and spiritual declinations? They did not blame their military defeats on bad generalship or fate but instead said it was because of the sins of their people and their wickedness towards God. I would think that anyone writing to promote themselves or their own nation would be influenced by their own human nature and would have blamed these things on fate or bad generalship. Instead they stood shamed and scorned and knew defeat in many battles because of their sin. No attempt whatsoever is made to conceal their folly, their unbelief, and their wickedness. Instead, the corrupt condition of their hearts is made very clear and this by writers who belonged to and were born of the same nation. In contrast, Josephus is all his writings conveniently passes over whatever appeared unfavorable to his nation. That sounds like more of a human influence than it does a Godly one. Its obvious to me then that the writers wrote "not of themselves" but they were "moved by the Holy Spirit".
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Post by diet coke on Aug 21, 2007 11:21:50 GMT -5
Hi Diet coke, we could not stop it if we tried.Bible prophecy will be fulfilled regardless of us. This, of course, is my point. Who is trying to stop it? Is your church? And are you not trying BECAUSE it's prophecy? In this case, the Bible is being used as the work of Satan, not God. One worker would shrug his shoulders at human pain and suffering, quoting that same verse (wars and rumors of wars) as if it is something God wants. Puh-lease!
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Post by Jessi on Aug 21, 2007 12:41:39 GMT -5
Hi Diet coke, we could not stop it if we tried.Bible prophecy will be fulfilled regardless of us. This, of course, is my point. Who is trying to stop it? Is your church? And are you not trying BECAUSE it's prophecy? In this case, the Bible is being used as the work of Satan, not God. One worker would shrug his shoulders at human pain and suffering, quoting that same verse (wars and rumors of wars) as if it is something God wants. Puh-lease! So, you believe in good and evil. Right and wrong. Between war and peace . . . Peace is always the better option. satan and God. So, you believe that God shouldn't have anything to do with war or, at least doesn't want it -- but you believe God's people should fight satan? I'm confused. Christ's Forever, Jessi
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Post by diet coke on Aug 21, 2007 14:57:09 GMT -5
This, of course, is my point. Who is trying to stop it? Is your church? And are you not trying BECAUSE it's prophecy? In this case, the Bible is being used as the work of Satan, not God. One worker would shrug his shoulders at human pain and suffering, quoting that same verse (wars and rumors of wars) as if it is something God wants. Puh-lease! So, you believe in good and evil. Right and wrong. Between war and peace . . . Peace is always the better option. satan and God. So, you believe that God shouldn't have anything to do with war or, at least doesn't want it -- but you believe God's people should fight satan? I'm confused. Christ's Forever, Jessi lol, Jessi, I confuse even myself. Sure, I believe in good and evil. Peace is good, war is evil. Sometime around the turn of the common era, we began to blame Satan for all things evil, probably so that we could clear God's name and praise Him for all things good, so yes, God=Good, Satan=Evil. Thus God=Peace, Satan=War. The Bible is neither; it seems to be quite easy to use for both good and evil, in this case promoting war in a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Post by diet coke on Aug 21, 2007 15:03:07 GMT -5
It might clear up any misconceptions if I admit that I do not worship this God
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Post by prokoff on Aug 21, 2007 19:35:36 GMT -5
Let's see if I've got this right. The Hebrew nation was God's chosen people....then Christianity came along & then God's chosen people became 2x2s. How can the Jew's still be God's chosen people?
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Aug 21, 2007 21:56:34 GMT -5
LOl..........prokoff I assume you are trying to be funny.
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Post by Jessi on Aug 21, 2007 22:50:19 GMT -5
It might clear up any misconceptions if I admit that I do not worship this God You use the name, satan . . . but you don't really believe in him? You say, God -- that you do not worship Him -- but do you believe there is a God, a Creator, but you just don't feel like you should worship Him? I ask because I have seen your references to the Bible on different threads and I thought I read that you attend meetings or convention sometimes? It's confusing to piece together what people believe sometimes when jumping from thread to thread -- forgive if you have already told me. Thanks, Christ's Forever, Jessi
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