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Post by my view on Aug 18, 2007 12:04:45 GMT -5
Thanks so much to those people who have understood - exes, and Friends alike. Thanks Nathan for your words of encouragement to keep on going. I really appreciate the fact that people have been supportive of ME - even ME with all my angst, contrariness, stuffy writing style, and temper. The point I'm ultimately making is that my being a Friend is not an uninformed choice. In the past years I have explored so many denominations: Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism, Baptist. I have taught in Roman Catholic schools, so I got to see Catholic family life and spirit. I am applying for a transfer to a Baptist College next year to teach Mathematics. I'm not afraid of these denominations, or ignorant of what is "out there". (Just way off the limb - I have even attended Ba'hai Meetings.) I listen regularly to sermons online from highly trained theologians and pastors and elders. Although I have heard so much that I have enjoyed; so much that I am in full harmony; so much that seems doctrinally perfect, yet for ME Jesus Christ is not in it. God is not in it. The thing that "works" for me is the Fellowship Church. It's where I really found Christ and the Father and the Holy Spirit. It's where I learn to love people to whom my first reaction is instinctive dislike. It's where I learn humility. The Fellowship catches me up in its spirit of mission; in its spirit of the "wandering church" of the wilderness. It makes me feel safer and more secure than I could ever feel in any other way. What more can I say than this? I feel so much affection for those who have seen the inside of my soul in this thread, and have said something kind in response. Am I sick? Yes. Physically and spiritually. Every Sunday as communion is being passed around, I pray: " Only say the word Lord, and I shall be healed. Only say the word". My faith is in the unmerited love of God - that in the end, in the final analysis, somehow (and don't ask me how) I will be acquitted by Christ despite my brokenness and my oft-chaotic state. I believe in salvation as a miracle beyond comprehension. How will I be saved? I really have no idea. But Jesus will do it. Somehow. Some day. This is my Faith. GIT, you may not know this - but there are people here who pray for you. They do not pray that you would come to view the world the way they see it, but simply that you would know joy, peace and happiness. That you would be kind to yourself. That you would wear jeans and t-shirts more. That you would find more of the connection and joy that you know with your dogs in other areas of your life. I admire your talent with words and enjoy the passion that sometimes runs through them. It is a real gift, and I would hope that you would find an outlet for them that transcends internet sites like this. I don't know how old you are, but I would guess that you are relatively young. FWIW, here are some things that have been helpful to me in my life: You mention learning humility within the fellowship, and that may be a valuable life lesson. However, true humility is not putting yourself down. That is simply putting yourself down. True humility is knowing that in the very next moment you may learn something that will change how you view things forever. I had a realization a few years ago, that has been profoundly life changing for me. I realized that I sometimes say mean or unkind things about myself in the privacy of my own thoughts, that I would never dream of saying about another person. I have stopped doing this, and I have learned to treat myself with consistent kindness - more like I would try to treat someone else. This has helped me become more consistently kind to other people as well. A while ago, on another thread, someone mentioned to you how consciously cultivating gratitude was life changing for them. I can attest to this as well. Someone once said that you can't be grateful and depressed at the same time. I think this is true. As was mentioned, even starting a formal practice of writing down, say, 5 or 10 things every day that you are grateful for can be life changing. A sense of humor is a good thing. Sometimes when I have had the ability to laugh at myself or see the humor in not-so-great situations, I have found it to be very healing. Being able to take a step back and to see the humor in some of the exchanges on this board can diffuse a lot of the negativity.
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Post by _ on Aug 18, 2007 12:13:59 GMT -5
Put Bryan and GIT in a room and I would choose to be with GIT. Like a fist fight? Are you crazy? Why would you even think of such a thing? I really hate ignorance... If you would have read reply #7 of the other thread, you would have clearly seen that I cannot fault anyone for changing their mind... ? Have I ever said I'm trying to destroy GiT? Of course not.... more false assumptions and ignorance... More ignorance... I have not attacked anyone... I have asked GiT to respond to inconsistencies in his writings... Is that what you call being a bully? Of course you cannot provide one example of my attack on his person... more ignorance... I have only posted under this handle on this thread... you can verify with the admin if needed... more ignorance... Yes... you've made quite a fool out of yourself... quite enough indeed...
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Post by False Teaching on Aug 18, 2007 13:25:03 GMT -5
Clearest example...."accidental salvation'
There is never never never and accidental salvation. It is all Jesus and that is not and accident. Statments like these are share folly and plainly false.
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Post by ithascome on Aug 18, 2007 14:09:55 GMT -5
accidental salvation'
This are strange words. How can you accidentally be save? If someone were drowning could you accidentally save them?
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savedbyblood
Junior Member
Eventually we'll figure it all out!
Posts: 57
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Post by savedbyblood on Aug 19, 2007 15:17:47 GMT -5
Thanks so much to those people who have understood - exes, and Friends alike. Thanks Nathan for your words of encouragement to keep on going. I really appreciate the fact that people have been supportive of ME - even ME with all my angst, contrariness, stuffy writing style, and temper. The point I'm ultimately making is that my being a Friend is not an uninformed choice... I listen regularly to sermons online from highly trained theologians and pastors and elders. Although I have heard so much that I have enjoyed; so much that I am in full harmony; so much that seems doctrinally perfect, yet for ME Jesus Christ is not in it. God is not in it. The thing that "works" for me is the Fellowship Church. It's where I really found Christ and the Father and the Holy Spirit... It's where I learn humility. The Fellowship catches me up in its spirit of mission; in its spirit of the "wandering church" of the wilderness. It makes me feel safer and more secure than I could ever feel in any other way. I believe in salvation as a miracle beyond comprehension. How will I be saved? I really have no idea. But Jesus will do it. Somehow. Some day. This is my Faith. Well spoken GIT and keep on keeping on until the end. Even though I have had so many physical, emotional and Spiritual setbacks over the last 3 years and even have gone so far as to butt heads with a Worker or two over Scripture (including the Texas Overseer) I still know that deep down that this Way is the "best" way to serve the Lord. I refuse to judge other Christians just because I don't know all of the interpretation of the Word. I refuse to engage in fights with people who harbor animosity toward me just because I belong to a group that they hate for some reason. As Paul "reasoned in the synagogue" I too am willing but baseless accusations, name-calling and such cannot be considered reason by any stretch of the imagination. 2by2, ex-2by2 or non 2by2 if we Love Jesus Christ then it should be our desire to uphold His teachings and example to Love others as ourselves. I know how difficult this has can be at times because I have been there so much in the past 3 years. I believe that this is some of the "persecution" we are told we must suffer for our Faith. To have friends, former friends, family (my own wife in my case) turn on you because of false accusations either imagined or concocted for the purpose of creating doubt can cause much damage to your Faith if you do not keep your yourself open to the Strength and Power of our Lord. Peace - Keep strong in the Lord. To Nathan, I have just visited and began to read some of your web site. Thank you so much for your essay on the Trinity. Even after 37 years I had little understanding of the Trinity Relationship and had not received much instruction from the Workers. Your insightful essay was mostly a help because it confirmed some of what I had received through prayer and study. It did close some loose ends for me and help me understand better the beginning of time and the creation of the world in relationship to everything that was created. I will continue to visit and recommend it to others both 2by2 and ex! www.homestead.com/prosites-hobarker/topicsinbible.htmlPeace in Him, SBB
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Post by GITs Beliefs on Aug 19, 2007 21:21:06 GMT -5
Nobody attacks GIT because of his beliefs. They attack him because of his self-righteous pompous attitude. Get a grip, GIT. You come on here, tell us we're going to hell, and then get all whiney when someone hands it back to ya. What did you expect?!! Everyone to bow down to you and agree? No...you wanted a fight and you got it, now quit your whinin' and take it like a man!
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 19, 2007 21:42:46 GMT -5
LOL. Ok....He isn't attacked for his 2x2 beliefs? SOME (far from all) of the ex's on this board believe that ALL 2x2s have a self-righteous pompous attitude just because of the religion they are in. How does he win??? *(and btw, women don't have a monopoloy on whining!) M.
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Post by No He Isnt on Aug 19, 2007 21:55:50 GMT -5
No, he isn't attacked for his beliefs. There are 2x2's on here who have beautiful spirits and are not attacked. There may be a couple exes who believe 2x2's are not Christians. So what? There are many 2x2's, including GIT who believe all outside "the way" are going to hell. By the way, I really respect some of the 2x2's on here who CLEARLY state they're 2x2's and not just someone who's "sitting on the fence".
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Post by reality on Aug 19, 2007 22:24:04 GMT -5
Not all exes regard 2x2s as automatically doomed to a lost eternity. Not all 2x2s regard exes as automatically doomed to a lost eternity.
Not all 2x2s regard exes as fellow Christians. Not all exes regard 2x2s as fellow Christians.
GIT does believe that all exes are doomed to a lost eternity due simply to their status as non-2x2s.
GIT does believe that 2x2ism is the only "true Christianity" and that all other churches, regardless of format, are automatically false.
GIT does not believe that he himself is saved. Nate does believe that he himself is saved.
GIT and Nate claim to have the same beliefs.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the problem with this picture.
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Post by ithascome on Aug 19, 2007 22:33:58 GMT -5
Lets be fair... GIT does believe in "accidental salvation".
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Post by LOL on Aug 19, 2007 22:37:09 GMT -5
As in maybe some of us could accidentally fall in to salvation? For some reason "accidental salvation" has never been a part of my vocabulary. Maybe I should be fair and let GIT explain this to me?
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 19, 2007 22:38:19 GMT -5
No, he isn't attacked for his beliefs. There are 2x2's on here who have beautiful spirits and are not attacked. There may be a couple exes who believe 2x2's are not Christians. So what? There are many 2x2's, including GIT who believe all outside "the way" are going to hell. By the way, I really respect some of the 2x2's on here who CLEARLY state they're 2x2's and not just someone who's "sitting on the fence". I really don't care if you respect me or not. If I was a 2x2 and going to meetings, I would tell you that I was. Since I am NOT I will not lie and say that I am (just so you can say "see, see! I was right!), if that's ok with YOU? (or even if it's not.) Sorry and thank you for playing. M. PS...I agree there are 2x2 and Ex alike on here with beautiful spirits. Many more attack the 2x2 for their beliefs than just let them alone to believe them, however.... just a simple fact if you read the boards. M.
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Post by Youre Welcome on Aug 19, 2007 22:41:08 GMT -5
I don't know you, so I neither respect nor disrespect you. Just curious as to why you feel the need to defend a system you clearly don't belong to, but seem to uphold the beliefs? You know the workers would call this being "lukewarm".
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Post by duzznt matter on Aug 19, 2007 22:45:47 GMT -5
Not all exes regard 2x2s as automatically doomed to a lost eternity. Not all 2x2s regard exes as automatically doomed to a lost eternity. Not all 2x2s regard exes as fellow Christians. Not all exes regard 2x2s as fellow Christians. GIT does believe that all exes are doomed to a lost eternity due simply to their status as non-2x2s. GIT does believe that 2x2ism is the only "true Christianity" and that all other churches, regardless of format, are automatically false. GIT does not believe that he himself is saved. Nate does believe that he himself is saved. GIT and Nate claim to have the same beliefs. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the problem with this picture. Who freakin' cares? Everyone has their own beliefs. Why do people get all upset about what other's believe? If they aren't attacking you personally, is it really worth your angst? What God thinks is all that matters.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 19, 2007 22:46:30 GMT -5
To you're welcome: Oh good. I'm glad you don't disrespect me. I know even less about you, so I feel the same. I defend the "system" because I still agree with much of it. My parents still go to meetings, as do many other members of my family. Perhaps I will myself again one day; I don't know yet. I also don't feel that I have to "come off the fence" or decide immediately what my future will hold just because certain people here nitpick me for being ON the fence. I'll make up my mind in my own time...and during that time, I will probably continue to defend what I believe. I don't believe that only those in the 2x2 religion can be saved for one thing. That is a huge issue as far as professing and going back to meetings...so that would be a roadblock for me. There are many such issues, but I don't feel the need to describe them all here. I am not "lukewarm" ...lol...as I am not part of the church at all at this time. M.
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Post by Good on Aug 19, 2007 22:53:36 GMT -5
See, the difference is, I don't expect you to respect me. And you're right, you don't need to explain yourself to anyone, let alone a stranger on the internet. The real truth is, you enjoy a good debate as much as anyone else!
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Post by ithascome on Aug 19, 2007 22:54:39 GMT -5
It took me 20 years to decide for sure that it was not for me... so take your time. I for one am not against anyone who wishes to go back to the 2x2 fellowship. It is their salvation. They must work it out.
By the way... I feel that my 2x2 parents who are gone now... are saved... especially my Mom.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 19, 2007 22:58:41 GMT -5
Thanks, it has come. and to Good...nor do I "expect" you to respect me. For some, that just happens naturally after time! Anyway, of course you're right. I do enjoy debate from time to time.
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Post by Just Thinking on Aug 19, 2007 23:25:38 GMT -5
Ya know, WTBWG, it's not "required" that you have to hold to an exlusive belief to be part of the 2x2 church, so are there other reasons you're still undecided?
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 20, 2007 1:32:42 GMT -5
To you're welcome: Oh good. I'm glad you don't disrespect me. I know even less about you, so I feel the same. I defend the "system" because I still agree with much of it. My parents still go to meetings, as do many other members of my family. Perhaps I will myself again one day; I don't know yet. I also don't feel that I have to "come off the fence" or decide immediately what my future will hold just because certain people here nitpick me for being ON the fence. I'll make up my mind in my own time...and during that time, I will probably continue to defend what I believe. I don't believe that only those in the 2x2 religion can be saved for one thing. That is a huge issue as far as professing and going back to meetings...so that would be a roadblock for me. There are many such issues, but I don't feel the need to describe them all here. I am not "lukewarm" ...lol...as I am not part of the church at all at this time. M. if you are not lukewarm, are you regular warm? ;D
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Post by _ on Aug 20, 2007 1:38:15 GMT -5
Lets be fair... GIT does believe in "accidental salvation". Well then... I had better HOPE for an accident...
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 20, 2007 2:21:22 GMT -5
Lets be fair... GIT does believe in "accidental salvation"
I was asked to be unequivocal about my beliefs. I stated it in the best way I could. Of course, as others have pointed out, salvation is never accidental from God's point-of-view. However, I weary of being called upon to declare who I think is saved or not.
To be honest, I never think about this issue. I don't go around weighing up in my mind whether people are saved or not - partly because in my upbring I was told over and over again never to judge another person's salvation, even those outside the Fold.
My views about the Fellowship does not mean I am a wild-eyed fanatic who shuns all who do not believe as I do. In fact, just today I had a nice conversation about the Bible with an Assemblies of God lady (who could have just about been professing), and she invited me over for a meal, which I think I will accept.
I find I have found peace by just being open with my beliefs rather than trying to win the approval of the exes by being "half-and-half". On the other hand, I don't know whether it is so flattering to be the primary object of so much discussion.
Peace.
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 20, 2007 2:42:35 GMT -5
Lets be fair... GIT does believe in "accidental salvation". Well then... I had better HOPE for an accident... ROFLMAO !!! thats too funny. good one bryan. ;D
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 20, 2007 2:52:11 GMT -5
Ya know, WTBWG, it's not "required" that you have to hold to an exlusive belief to be part of the 2x2 church, so are there other reasons you're still undecided? Yes.
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