3
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Post by 3 on Aug 15, 2007 16:31:17 GMT -5
The workers surely have blue days; days when the restrictions placed on you as workers seem overwhelming, days when you just want some privacy, days when you feel tempted sexually; days when you are worried about your aging parents; days when you just feel defeated, weak & question your calling as a worker & maybe even question the existence of God.
Who can the workers turn to for counseling? I would hope that you are taught to be sensitive to the psychological needs of other workers and are able to be 'safe' for them to confide in.
Most in the 2x2 church don't want to show weakness and perhaps this is why there is such a high burn-out rate for workers.
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Aug 16, 2007 1:11:04 GMT -5
yes - that about describes a lot of the days in the 'work'
That seems a bit of an oymoron (?) "I would hope that you are taught to be senstivie to the psychological needs of other workers and are able to be 'safe' for them to confide in."
It is pretty rare to have the opportunity for seeing a cousellor while in the work......
A worker I know would have benefitted greatly from some such help and the only cousellor other workers could 'advise' or 'allow' was a professing fellow who could do with some of the counselling himself....
Professing and also a basket case........
I believe the reason workers do not advocate counsellors for other workers is they do not want the 'outside world' to find out what really goes on.......
If you had someone you could really trust in the work to confide in then you wouldn't bre overwhelmed with all the stuff you mention.....
............. sharon hargreaves
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Post by HelenGreene on Aug 16, 2007 4:51:40 GMT -5
Sharon, do you care to tell us why you left the meetings? Thank you. Just curious. Being a worker for such a long time. Way to go.
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3
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Post by 3 on Aug 16, 2007 22:22:28 GMT -5
2 posts from 2 separate ex workers and I conclude that if a worker has a particular struggle, depression, etc. he/she really has no one to talk to about it.
When I mentioned counseling in my original post, I didn't mean outside counseling like a therapist or psychiatrist (although I'm sure they would be extremely beneficial). I meant more a trusted older worker who was know to be safe to confide in, etc.
This must be very difficult for any worker.
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Post by Henry on Aug 16, 2007 22:44:16 GMT -5
Hey, Don't ya know you are talking about the PERFECT WAY. There can never be problems in the PERFECT WAY!
lol
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Aug 16, 2007 23:16:40 GMT -5
In my experiences in the work there was one worker I considered trustworthy enough to confide in with regard to a lot of difficulties in the work - his name was Harold Stewart - I had a lot of respect for him - for a man with a grade two education - extremely difficult for him to write a letter - he had a heart of sincere concern and in my view was trustworthy..
Otherwise - it was usually much safer to keep your mouth shut.
helen Greene :
acutally I have contributed a fair bit on this board re: my time in the work - if you are a registered poster you can find those posts under my name - rather than repeating.... you are welcome to e-mail me privatley though also if you care to either on the board or direct. cabinbythelake@uniserve.com
hope that helps.... Blessings sharon hargreaves
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Post by Brad Lewis on Aug 17, 2007 0:38:48 GMT -5
I turned to God. The workers hated it, but I love it now. I still struggle, but now I'm not fighting against God so much. Some say I'm kicking against the pricks, but I don't think they should call themselves that. It's not nice. Brad
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2007 2:23:27 GMT -5
Although no active worker would admit it, being 'happy' in the work is a matter of politics. I had the advantage of being a male -- this is a huge political advantage in the work. Having grown up in the fellowship had given me a fairly good understanding as to how the political system works -- this was also a big advantage. Establishing a good relationship with some of the higher ranking leaders also is imperative. After that, knowing the situations to avoid (and ignore) is probably one of the most important political qualities.
However many of these things come at the price of moral integrity -- this is where the crunch comes. At this point in my life I am not real proud of the fact that I was able to (fairly happily) stay in the work for 16 years.
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Aug 17, 2007 11:29:15 GMT -5
Hi Edgar,
So true about the 'politics' - however don't for a moment think there are no politics among the sisters-
the politics are just 'different' very - very petty , and of two main varieties........
the heirarchy among the sisters themselves and then the boot polishing of the brothers-------- it was absolutely sickening----- and I make NO apologies for these comments....
it is a miracle to be set free - but little doubt.........either you play the 'game' - go against it or just shut up............
Actually it was after I returned home from the Philippines when this 'system' showed it's ugly head in a way I had never seen before..........
not quite as subtle as it once had been...........
when they view you as a possible 'threat' to their established pecking order they don't welcome you as when you are a visiting worker..........
A visitor gets 'royal welcome and treatment' - you come - you leave and never interfere with the 'home politics' that have been nurtured delicately ..............
It was one of the things that helped me 'wake up'
And yes, I observed to some degree the pecking amongst brothers -
I realize also that the reality of it can only be fully understood from the 'inside'
Praise God you escaped -----
I understand what you mean by moral integrity being set aside for the sake of the system. this setting aside of moral integrity is in itself the main propeller of the 'mechanics' of a sad system...
Perhaps it was this 'inner conflict' that helped us see the error of it -
but there comes a time when you must choose - to get out or continue with compromised conscience and 'service'-
The system lacking a helpful and financially viable method of leaving and entering into life outside the work makes the option of leaving in many cases almost impossible - so many are caught in a terrible place..........
you may not like it but how to survive leaving is practically formidable.
as one brother worker said "what can I do - this is my living!"
Kind regards sharon hargreaves
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we all make our own way
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Post by we all make our own way on Aug 17, 2007 11:35:41 GMT -5
The system lacking a helpful and financially viable method of leaving and entering into life outside the work makes the option of leaving in many cases almost impossible - so many are caught in a terrible place.......... Kind regards sharon hargreaves I appreciate your posts Sharon. One thing I don't understand is why workers feel that they need more when leaving the work. From my understanding, many of them are taken in my "friends" for a while until they get their feet on the ground. Many of my friends have worked a particular job for a long time and then seen that job moved or closed, leaving them with no suitable job prospects. They are forced to learn a new skill or sometimes take a step backwards in employment? Isn't that life? None of them get any help from anyone. Why the sense of entitlement?
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Aug 17, 2007 12:30:25 GMT -5
Dear - 'we all make our own way' Please don't misunderstand the situation. And please be realistic and don't compare apples with turnips - 'need MORE?" All workers need is enough to get going......... The lack of surety that there is a workable avenue and solution open ---- is the heinous thing........ When you have worked at one job for 20 or 30 years- and then must change you likely have a house - family etc. and of course some expertise to your acccount... and should have something in a bank account also ..... and i do know of many in these situations also - and appreciate your comments..... When you leave the work at 50 years old as I did - with no skills of any sort that equip you for the pesent after 28 years it is no small item. You have no house - or cups and saucers either and you are usually a basket case and a social misfit to put it mildly....... It is not at all about thinking you have a sense of 'entitlement'- I was 'self- driven' to get a job and make my own way as quickly as possible because I was raised that way...... and I beleive that is good and right as soon as possible........... But believe me - I would not have taken over ten years to regain health and mental soundness if I could have had counselling etc at the get go............. Your 'understanding ' of what friends do for workers when/if they leave, often leaves much to be desired....... I had cousins ask me after I left the work- "how are the workers supported anyway? ' Of course we assume a lot of things when we really don't know and that is why many 'think they understand' but don't really- Since finances are not publickly talked about there is much assumption - both among workers themselves and the friends.... Some workers have way too much but the majority have to rely on very little . I have had times when I didn't have money to buy stamps and I had one companion who kept telling me I needed a winter coat and finally I said "if I had the money, I'd buy one!" To which she responded with a 'Oh don't you??? ,sneer' that was so demeaning that only those who experience such can understand it..... Then SHE took me shopping as though SHE was doing me a favour - 'her' money of course was given by friends who once assumed that the older companion always shared with the younger.......... I think most of the friends are 'wised up' in more recent years and when they give - they give equally to EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY -- respecting the younger as a person also....... There is nothing certain about how things will 'play out' when you leave the work - unless of course you have already planned to marry ahead of time - in many cases there are kindnesses and in other cases there is NOTHING...... while there are sometimes those who do much - the truth is, the SYSTEM ITSELF should have a provision for any who want or need to leave - it should NOT FALL TO THE RELATIVES AND KINDNESS OF FRIENDS to pick up such pieces........ Believe me I had no sense of 'entitlement' - I was fortunate to have friends who did stand by me sigificantly to help me get on my feet and I am grateful for that but your 'accusation' of this nature of feeling some 'entitlement' does not 'sit well' for me................ If you knew the kinds of work I did to keep body and soul together to get on my feet, you would perhaps be surprised........ There have been workers leave, not given one single cent and I could tell you of one sister who had nothing but cardboard to sleep on for sometime - An old brother worker sneaked a few pots and pans to her to help her out - but he was terrified that the other workers would find out he did that small kindness..........go figure...... There have been those who have litterally escaped. It doesn't take many of these instances to scare the rest into just hanging in there...... I don't mean to 'offend' you with my comments but I was there too long and saw too much to keep silent. with kind wishes sharon hargreaves
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now an ex Praise God
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Post by now an ex Praise God on Aug 17, 2007 14:40:35 GMT -5
I realize that so many in this 'system' have no clue as to what happens, what goes on as far as 'workers' in it or who have left.. I haven't posted my name..going thru a little too much these days.. but Sharon can vouch for me..I left the 'work' younger than Sharon.. managed to get a job..still with the same company..and do ok..I am that sister w though...that scraped enough together to get an apartment..yup slept on cardboad..sleeping bag..ate off crates..hamburger 132 different ways..came across an old mattress one day..I did live with a sister..that's how I got enough for the apartment..I knew she wanted me to move on..which was fine..but the pay pretty well covered the apartment and transit...I don't mean a car..I literally cruised the streets..picked up stuff people thru out..cleaned it up..and it was mine..'REAL SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT" I had...eh..no I didn't ask for anything...from anyone.. a kindly brother 'worker' called me one day,said come down to 'preps' there are things they are going to throw away..come quietly told us where to wait..this was later...managed to scrape enough to buy an old car.. cheap in those days..needed one to get to meetings as the one I was told to go to was 1/2 hour drive..and no bus there on Sunday..
so please, you need to know of what you speak. Praise God..He has led me to real living Truth..for which I am so very grateful..Sharon bless her soul has been such a real and Godly help to me..
I thank God I left the work when I did..able after some difficulty and adjustment to find a job and career...had married a wonderful man..two children..now two wonderful young men..cannot even imagine leaving after 20 or 30 years..' sense of entitlement' WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
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now an ex Praise God
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Post by now an ex Praise God on Aug 17, 2007 15:10:39 GMT -5
to clarify..when I say going thru too much..I'm not 'whining' just the remnants of the exposure to the 'system' that I am in progress of putting behind me for once and all..due to real 'Truth' now present and active in my life....just thought I'd make that as clear as I could!!
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Post by praisingGodtoo on Aug 17, 2007 15:28:02 GMT -5
Thanks so much for sharing your stories with us. I wished there was some way we could help these poor souls who want to leave the work and can't. I throw out good furniture and you name it, that I would love to give to some poor soul who could use it. I don't have money, but I could help someway. You workers are more than precious souls. What a life you had to live just to be free. God is good.
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Post by quite curious on Aug 17, 2007 23:00:34 GMT -5
When you have worked at one job for 20 or 30 years- and then must change you likely have a house - family etc. and of course some expertise to your acccount... and should have something in a bank account also ..... with kind wishes sharon hargreaves I know a lot of people who have lost their jobs and are in a lot worse shape than workers. They have mortgages to pay, car loans, kids to raise (and put through school). I have seen some lose it all. I appreciate all the workers...... but I have not seen one yet that was not offered a chance to get going again through help from the friends. It makes me wonder what the situation was when a worker left and feels that they were not offered enough help. Why such conflicting stories? Some ex-workers rave about all the help they were given. Others claim neglect. What's the diff?
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Post by better than mine on Aug 18, 2007 0:50:03 GMT -5
I lost my job once when my company was outsourced. I lived in a fairly small city and there were no other companies that could use my skill set.
Fortunately for me, my parents let me stay with them for a while as I regrouped. Isn't that what family is for if they can do it?
No buddies offered to let me stay with them. None of my acquaintances offered to give me a job. I finally took an entry-level job and started from the bottom again.
I think it's great that a lot of workers get support from some 2x2's until they can be self-supportive. What more could you ask then that?
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Post by ithascome on Aug 18, 2007 1:17:32 GMT -5
Sharon
Did you ever know Sue Baily and June Dougless? I think they were both In the PI. I wonder what ever happened to them. Are they even still alive?
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therose
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"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
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Post by therose on Aug 18, 2007 1:28:33 GMT -5
Yes, John, they are both still alive but Sue is very unhealthy and frail. June was still pretty sharp the last time I saw her but time is getting us all. This is guest12345 in the flesh since calrandaze seems to have a need to know as to who is posting. Never really tried to hide - just did not have the email address I wanted.
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Post by ithascome on Aug 18, 2007 1:39:27 GMT -5
I always liked them... Just was wondering... Thanks sis
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2007 7:55:59 GMT -5
From what I have seen, the long time worker survivors take two routes, could be more though.
Some seem to discipline their thoughts to the point of shutting down some emotions and are able to cope with many of the challenges that way. When they see injustices and people getting hurt, they are either able to turn it off or have little natural feeling compassion) anyway.
I know some workers who do care. Some of them have close confidantes for an outlet with whom they can discuss things freely. It's too bad this sort of thing isn't encouraged more as it would help workers retain their feelings for others as well as their emotional health.
The need for public stoicism amongst the workers is tragic as it must create a lot of inner stresses.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Aug 18, 2007 9:51:32 GMT -5
the SYSTEM ITSELF should have a provision for any who want or need to leave - it should NOT FALL TO THE RELATIVES AND KINDNESS OF FRIENDS to pick up such pieces........
Im wondering SHaron if the reason the system doesn't provide for those who leave the work is because they feel it might make it easier for those thinking about leaving?? I may be wrong. I wonder though how many just stay in the work because they fear having nothing when they leave, ie, money, skills, job etc??? Maybe more would leave if there were provisions? Maybe the system is afraid of this? Whats your thoughts?
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Post by not necessary on Aug 18, 2007 10:56:12 GMT -5
Many posters on here claim that the workers are freeloaders who do no actual work. If they don't work, why would they get a severance package?
The pastor at my local church just left. He did not receive any severance package or compensation.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2007 12:49:03 GMT -5
I think that it is true that one of the things that keeps workers (especially older workers) in the work is because there are few other viable alternate life styles available. However this is hardly something that the work is hardly responsible for -- and like someone else mentioned, quiting one job often means looking for another!
I also know that even in some extremely represive fields, senior workers have seen to it that departing workers get a bit of start capital' for a new life.
I had about the equivelant of about 100 dollars when I quit the work -- and then I sent money that came to me after (sent by folks who didn't know I quit when they sent it) to the older worker in the field. I didn't expect more and I didn't recieve more.
Having nothing isn't really all that uncommon for many people in the world we live in. I have a hard time to understand how leaving workers can demand any serverance pay --- and very few ever do. Like someone else pointed out, at least departing workers don't usually have debts to pay.
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Post by sharonhargreaves on Aug 18, 2007 13:19:10 GMT -5
Yes I know/knew Sue Bailey - we were in the same language area for several years - Ilocano in the North.
June Douglas was a visitor at least once to the Far east Conventions.
Wingsofaneagle - you said it perfectly. Of course the 'system' is afraid of losing people.
What is the saying
'if it is yours - let it go and it will come back to you? That isn't correct quote but you will know the correct version?
If you love someone - let them go - if they love you - they'll come back?" I shouldn't try to quote it as I can't quite remember it.......
I would have to say that very few - if any - ever go in the work with the thought of 'freeloading' -
I truly believe those who go in the work are very sincere people and desire to give their lives to the best possible purpose...... that's what was put before us since as long as I can remember ........
It is when you find out the 'truth' about the 'truth' and want to make changes that the difficulty comes.
there are a lot of posters here who just 'don't get it'----
I can only speak of my experiences and what I have personally seen -
Beleive me - I have huge sympathy for those who lose jobs and have to start over - it is no small item and in some cases it has resulted in even divorce and other terrible stress..
But that is not to detract form the subject of the the difficulty of what workers face to leave and start over........
A better comparison is advocating a woman (or man) in an abusive and very hurtful relationship/marriage to just stay - buckle down and shut up and take it.
For the woman/or man to leave and get out is not exactly the easiest from emotional, financial and every other aspect.
The church I attend is presently involved in helping 'old colony' people get free in a South American area -
Incest, rape, child marriages and multiple wives,hard labour, are common.
These situations are beyond comprehension in the name of religion and of course the 'freedom of religion' is sometimes a hiding place for a lot of ugly stuff - we know that.
They are physically surrounded by fences and physical brutality is applied when anyone tries to leave, question the 'elders' and 'authority'...
When/if they try to leave (escape) it is with not more than the clothes they are wearing -
Believe me though - there are some comparisons - as to the emotional/spiritual and family allegiances...........the fear that holds them.........
where would you go if you left?
these are all I've even known?
it's a big bad world out there -
no one would understand me anyway -
how could I make it without the 'system' -
to leave it going straight to hell -
to leave is leaving my loved ones -
they'll chase me down if I did get away.......
as wings of an eagle said -
yes - if there was a simple 'out' more would leave no question about that - .....
why do you think workers misuse the Scriptures like 'putting your hand to the plow and not looking back........
that in worker language means - you go in the work and to leave is NOT an option.......(certainly it is a psycholgically 'fence'.......)
I believe it is a nice Scripture to indicate keeping our eyes/vision focused ahead if we are to leave a straight path behind us.
I don't beleive it has anything to do with enduring a situation that is not healthy - no matter what.......come hell or high water you hang on by your eyebrows.........
The Liberty wherewith Christ has made us free does not bring about such bondages.......
Shoudn't some alarms bells sound for us??
sharon
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