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Post by wondering on Aug 14, 2007 12:18:58 GMT -5
I believe non-exclusive professing saints are a growing but small minority of professing folks. They don't want to upset their relatives into leaving and they enjoy the simple structure of the fellowship meetings. They are better educated and more likely to live in suburban areas where meetings aren't dominated by one or two families. Thanks to these boards, they are getting more courage and able to interact with others of like mind. I don't know how their overseers view them?
I heard a brother worker say in a meeting I AM SURE EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM KNOWS THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY..wish I had the courage then to speak up!!!
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Post by freespirit on Aug 14, 2007 13:24:20 GMT -5
I believe non-exclusive professing saints are a growing but small minority of professing folks. They don't want to upset their relatives into leaving and they enjoy the simple structure of the fellowship meetings. They are better educated and more likely to live in suburban areas where meetings aren't dominated by one or two families. Thanks to these boards, they are getting more courage and able to interact with others of like mind. I don't know how their overseers view them? I heard a brother worker say in a meeting I AM SURE EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM KNOWS THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY..wish I had the courage then to speak up!!! well. I can certainly relate to not having courage to speak when I should have. A few years ago, we were sitting around the table at my mom's house doing the after-meal-gab. And the female worker ran slap-dab over the male worker by yakking it up about how women shouldn't wear the pants in the family. (uh. Like, what the bleep did she think she was doing exactly if not wearing the pants?) It made me want to scream. Honestly. It was like "the beatings will continue until moral improves" sort of thing. So, I didn't say anything. But, seeing that the talk had no spiritual value--wasn't about Jesus or the bible--I just got up, washed the dishes and left. I don't even think I said good-bye. I walked home, put on my jeans and went for a walk. Or maybe I went and pulled weeds in the yard. I can't remember clearly. Looking back I realize I really should have used the situation as a teaching/sharing experience instead of getting so emotionally tied in knots and hacked off. I didn't need to jump down her throat or anything--I really like peace and the vast majority of the time we don't accomplish much by yelling or throwing rocks at people--but I should have just respectfully disagreed with her. I mean, I felt guilty/convicted about it. There isn't anything in the bible about women wearing pants--men's clothing, yes, but what is or isn't men's clothes (ie cross-dressing) is a cultural thing. Making some weirdo blanket rule about pants is just hanging on to customs and traditions--long robes in the marketplace and all that jazz. That's JMO of course, and I'm not really out to change anyone else's mind. But I don't have to sit and condone it either by my silence. Anyhow... hugs to you. I don't think we're the silent MINORITY. I believe that God is on the side of truth. His truth. Not Truth, the religion. But His truth. You know... God plus one is a majority. Maybe next time you'll get a chance to explain that Jesus is the way. Or maybe not. Maybe it's better that I didn't say anything that time because I wasn't all prayed up about it to have a good spirit about the whole thing anyway. I really like this worker, by the way--she's sweet, not one of those rant and ravers. Sometime later she came and had a bible study with me. It was nice--helpful. But it seemed that the opportunity I had to speak about the dress code thing had passed. I guess I need to be a little more prayed up about stuff so my emotions don't get the better of me. peace to all, freespirit
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savedbyblood
Junior Member
Eventually we'll figure it all out!
Posts: 57
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Post by savedbyblood on Aug 14, 2007 23:38:45 GMT -5
I heard a brother worker say in a meeting I AM SURE EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM KNOWS THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY..wish I had the courage then to speak up!!! well. I can certainly relate to not having courage to speak when I should have. A few years ago, we were sitting around the table at my mom's house doing the after-meal-gab. And the female worker ran slap-dab over the male worker by yakking it up about how women shouldn't wear the pants in the family. (uh. Like, what the bleep did she think she was doing exactly if not wearing the pants?) It made me want to scream. Honestly. It was like "the beatings will continue until moral improves" sort of thing. So, I didn't say anything. But, seeing that the talk had no spiritual value--wasn't about Jesus or the bible--I just got up, washed the dishes and left. I don't even think I said good-bye. I walked home, put on my jeans and went for a walk. Or maybe I went and pulled weeds in the yard. I can't remember clearly. Looking back I realize I really should have used the situation as a teaching/sharing experience instead of getting so emotionally tied in knots and hacked off. I didn't need to jump down her throat or anything--I really like peace and the vast majority of the time we don't accomplish much by yelling or throwing rocks at people--but I should have just respectfully disagreed with her. I mean, I felt guilty/convicted about it. There isn't anything in the bible about women wearing pants--men's clothing, yes, but what is or isn't men's clothes (ie cross-dressing) is a cultural thing. Making some weirdo blanket rule about pants is just hanging on to customs and traditions--long robes in the marketplace and all that jazz. That's JMO of course, and I'm not really out to change anyone else's mind. But I don't have to sit and condone it either by my silence. Anyhow... hugs to you. I don't think we're the silent MINORITY. I believe that God is on the side of truth. His truth. Not Truth, the religion. But His truth. You know... God plus one is a majority. Maybe next time you'll get a chance to explain that Jesus is the way. Or maybe not. Maybe it's better that I didn't say anything that time because I wasn't all prayed up about it to have a good spirit about the whole thing anyway. I really like this worker, by the way--she's sweet, not one of those rant and ravers. Sometime later she came and had a bible study with me. It was nice--helpful. But it seemed that the opportunity I had to speak about the dress code thing had passed. I guess I need to be a little more prayed up about stuff so my emotions don't get the better of me. peace to all, freespirit My Sunday Elder was caught by one of the Older sister Workers while wearing Walking Shorts in his own home and was taken to task over it. We speak quite a lot sometimes on the arbitrary rules, based in the minds of those who have lifted themselves up to be "Holier Than Thou" and it had gotten to the point that even if a Worker declares something and that something proved to wrong or form a mis-directed attitude, the saints are to support Him or her because of where the Judgment comes from (a man) and they cannot allow themselves to make mistakes. It's difficult to follow an Edsel when you are sitting in a Porsche! Peace in Him, SBB
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Post by Stefan on Aug 14, 2007 23:53:45 GMT -5
My Sunday Elder was caught by one of the Older sister Workers while wearing Walking Shorts in his own home and was taken to task over it. Peace in Him, SBB 1) What do you mean, "taken to task?" Can you elaborate. What exactly was said. 2) I just can't imagine not "talking back" on that one no matter how much of a "good saint" that a person is. Something like, "can you please show me in the Bible where it says not to wear shorts?" If this really happened, it's a rogue worker for sure. Can't imagine that worker would find much support from any other. Maybe the older sister worker was starting to slip a little if you know what I mean.
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Post by freespirit on Aug 14, 2007 23:57:19 GMT -5
SBB: yeah... that's pretty nuts. Perhaps one of these would help: www.seasonalcollector.com/protection-from-holier-than-thou-candle-p-667.html ;D Anyone here ever considered making a list of workers who will take you to task for whatever odd reason and workers who will not? Perhaps include dates and times? It would be quite helpful to know who was cranky at what time of day so we could better avoid them. Or what really sets who off. Or how long it has been since the last time they churched someone. A database perhaps that people could consult to know if they were up next to get (insert scary music here) "the dreaded talk." No, wait. That's a bad idea. Never mind. I'll shut up now. peace, freespirit
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_
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Post by _ on Aug 15, 2007 0:59:37 GMT -5
My Sunday Elder was caught by one of the Older sister Workers while wearing Walking Shorts in his own home and was taken to task over it. Wearing shorts during many activities is common where I come from...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2007 1:22:28 GMT -5
quote - "I heard a brother worker say in a meeting I AM SURE EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM KNOWS THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY..wish I had the courage then to speak up!!!"
Well, it's an either / or... Either its right and you submit yourself to it, Or, it's wrong and you go find the right way.
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_
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Post by _ on Aug 15, 2007 1:25:13 GMT -5
quote - "I heard a brother worker say in a meeting I AM SURE EVERYONE IN THIS ROOM KNOWS THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY..wish I had the courage then to speak up!!!" Well, it's an either / or... Either its right and you submit yourself to it, Or, it's wrong and you go find the right way.The "right way" isn't some group or fellowship or church bert.... It's Jesus Christ himself! He is the way... he is the only way... he is the right way... So it is not either or... the 2x2 fellowship and every other fellowship church is not the right way, since Jesus alone is the way!
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Post by The antipodean on Aug 15, 2007 1:46:39 GMT -5
There is the right way (Thats Jesus).
There's also the right church. (and that can't be just every church)
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_
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Post by _ on Aug 15, 2007 3:16:37 GMT -5
There is the right way (Thats Jesus). There's also the right church. (and that can't be just every church) Which "church" are you talking about? From carm - Church
The word is used in two senses: the visible and the invisible church. The visible church consists of all the people that claim to be Christians and go to church. The invisible church is the actual body of Christians; those who are truly saved.
The true church of God is not an organization on earth consisting of people and buildings, but is really a supernatural entity comprised of those who are saved by Jesus. It spans the entire time of man's existence on earth as well as all people who are called into it. We become members of the church (body of Christ) by faith (Acts 2:41). We are edified by the Word (Eph. 4:15-16), disciplined by God (Matt. 18:15-17), unified in Christ (Gal. 3:28), and sanctified by the Spirit (Eph. 5:26-27).
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Post by ii on Aug 15, 2007 3:42:26 GMT -5
There is the right way (Thats Jesus). There's also the right church. (and that can't be just every church) Which "church" are you talking about? From carm - Church
The word is used in two senses: the visible and the invisible church. The visible church consists of all the people that claim to be Christians and go to church. The invisible church is the actual body of Christians; those who are truly saved.
The true church of God is not an organization on earth consisting of people and buildings, but is really a supernatural entity comprised of those who are saved by Jesus. It spans the entire time of man's existence on earth as well as all people who are called into it. We become members of the church (body of Christ) by faith (Acts 2:41). We are edified by the Word (Eph. 4:15-16), disciplined by God (Matt. 18:15-17), unified in Christ (Gal. 3:28), and sanctified by the Spirit (Eph. 5:26-27).
our church ;D if the church is of Jesus it will be recognised by the way the church does behave. is the church showing the attributes of Jesus Christ? is the church showing the attitudes of Jesus Christ? is the church doing the things Jesus commanded them to do? is the church living the things Jesus lived?
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_
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Post by _ on Aug 15, 2007 4:19:44 GMT -5
Which "church" are you talking about? From carm - Church
The word is used in two senses: the visible and the invisible church. The visible church consists of all the people that claim to be Christians and go to church. The invisible church is the actual body of Christians; those who are truly saved.
The true church of God is not an organization on earth consisting of people and buildings, but is really a supernatural entity comprised of those who are saved by Jesus. It spans the entire time of man's existence on earth as well as all people who are called into it. We become members of the church (body of Christ) by faith (Acts 2:41). We are edified by the Word (Eph. 4:15-16), disciplined by God (Matt. 18:15-17), unified in Christ (Gal. 3:28), and sanctified by the Spirit (Eph. 5:26-27).
our church ;D if the church is of Jesus it will be recognised by the way the church does behave. is the church showing the attributes of Jesus Christ? is the church showing the attitudes of Jesus Christ? is the church doing the things Jesus commanded them to do? is the church living the things Jesus lived? which church is "our church"?
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Post by wondering on Aug 15, 2007 8:49:37 GMT -5
savedbyblood - were you a 2x2 person and if so just how long have you been away? I am older and know many many people who wear walking shorts every day, that including some on the job like postman. I have been to many picnics where the men, not young boys, wear shorts. Was just at a hugh graduation gathering where many men wore shorts and women wore what women call skorts. Come on now. If I wanted to wear shorts and some worker got on me, that would just be the beginning of that lambast. Hopefully you know what you are talking about.
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3
Senior Member
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Post by 3 on Aug 15, 2007 9:11:39 GMT -5
freespirit:
I'm not picking on you - I promise!
You said, 'I guess I need to be a little more prayed up about stuff so my emotions don't get the better of me."
There are times in life when it's perfectly appropriate to let our emotions get the better of us.
Anger needs to be dispelled somehow or it will simmer under the surface & lead to all kinds of problems.
If prayer is a way for you to work through your emotions, then go for it.
I was raised in a controlling environment as well as influenced by the 2x2 way which supports the theory that showing emotion = having a bad spirit.
I 'stuffed' my emotions for many, many years. I don't anymore and I'm a better person for it -both physically & mentally.
We all have rational minds and there is nothing wrong with using them. We need to stop 2nd-guessing ourselves & trust those rational minds when we hear or see something that is totally irrational!
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Post by ithascome on Aug 15, 2007 10:58:22 GMT -5
I wonder what the Older sister Workers would have said if they had caught her in her underpants. Pants are pants.... in any form. Do sister workers wear them?
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3
Senior Member
Posts: 206
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Post by 3 on Aug 15, 2007 11:39:02 GMT -5
I've wondered about women's Pajamas, too.
My mother-in-law refuses to wear pants yet sleeps in pajamas.
I've seen sister workers in PJ's also....
When there are children starving in Africa, it all seems so trivial & pointless. YET, some of us were raised with prohibitions that were ridiculous and even harmful and the resulting angst still raises it's gnarly head every now & then.
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Post by ranman77007 on Aug 15, 2007 12:39:07 GMT -5
quote by freespirit: "You know... God plus one is a majority." freespirit, in my opinion, you just made the ranks of the all time great posters with this saying.
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Post by freespirit on Aug 15, 2007 14:48:30 GMT -5
freespirit: I'm not picking on you - I promise! You said, 'I guess I need to be a little more prayed up about stuff so my emotions don't get the better of me." There are times in life when it's perfectly appropriate to let our emotions get the better of us. Anger needs to be dispelled somehow or it will simmer under the surface & lead to all kinds of problems. If prayer is a way for you to work through your emotions, then go for it. I was raised in a controlling environment as well as influenced by the 2x2 way which supports the theory that showing emotion = having a bad spirit. I 'stuffed' my emotions for many, many years. I don't anymore and I'm a better person for it -both physically & mentally. We all have rational minds and there is nothing wrong with using them. We need to stop 2nd-guessing ourselves & trust those rational minds when we hear or see something that is totally irrational! no worries, 3. I agree with you. And thank you for the reminder that it is okay to feel our feelings. Definitely there are times when indignant anger IS the "right" spirit--it's appropriate. Even Jesus took a whip and ran the money-changers out of the temple. yes, prayer is one way I process emotions. I have others too (journaling, music, dance, gardening, etc) and without them, I can get pretty stressed out and scattered. IMO we all need outlets for our frustration so we don't become walking time bombs. The blanket rule discouraging art, music, sports, fishing, or anything else that might possibly be fun does not serve people well in my mind. We all need safe places to express and process our feelings and frustrations. Ideally, a church would provide some support--but with so much gossip in this one--well, most of the time for me, I've found best to take my feelings straight to God and ask for His help and advice. I've got some really close friends that I can talk through stuff with too. The saying "all prayed up" is borrowed from a friend of mine (non 2x2) who uses the expression to mean "prepared" when she's facing what could potentially be an awkward or explosive situation. Thank you for this post. I kept wanting to write about frustrations and dealing with them. I've been guilty of both under reacting and over reacting to situations. peace to all, freespirit
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Post by ii on Aug 16, 2007 4:47:00 GMT -5
our church ;D if the church is of Jesus it will be recognised by the way the church does behave. is the church showing the attributes of Jesus Christ? is the church showing the attitudes of Jesus Christ? is the church doing the things Jesus commanded them to do? is the church living the things Jesus lived? which church is "our church"? what you don't know
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2007 7:58:47 GMT -5
It is unfortunate that the idea of the "right way" has been so terribly perverted as to make many people think that their church group or system is the "right way". The right way in life is becoming one with Christ who is The Way (and The Truth) by accepting Him.
Even the Mormons have come to understand this distinction. While they still believe that they have the right church, they no longer condemn all who are not in their church and recognize fellow believers outside their system. They are better off for moving away from their previously held exclusive position. I see less haughty self righteousness and pride amongst them.
As the original poster mentioned, there is a small movement amongst f&ws toward non-exclusion of fellow believers in Christ. However, the excluders and dividers remain dominant.
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