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Post by Ryan on Aug 13, 2007 13:30:50 GMT -5
I am fairly new to Bible reading. I see the Jehovah witnesses going 2x2 door to door, also the Mormans and apparently at one time or still in some places the workers.....Do any or all of these people going 2x2 think they are THE 2 witnesses? ??
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Post by Not on Aug 13, 2007 15:11:34 GMT -5
I am fairly new to Bible reading. I see the Jehovah witnesses going 2x2 door to door, also the Mormans and apparently at one time or still in some places the workers.....Do any or all of these people going 2x2 think they are THE 2 witnesses? ?? The workers going 2x2: The older worker's part is to train, teach, sharing his experience with the younger workers to become preachers of the gospel, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
Yes, they are Jesus two living witnessess to testify He is the Lord God and Savior to whosoever believes in Him. living witnessess to testify He is the Lord God and Savior to whosoever believes in HimThe workers do not teach this.
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Post by Ryan on Aug 13, 2007 15:47:28 GMT -5
Nathan, It will take me a while to read your site, but I will eventually. It seems that various groups have formed as a result of their belief that they were " coming out of Babylon". They may have in fact just become part of it and hence added to the confusion if you know what I mean. I am wondering how a person can ever be sure that they are not still part of it... if they are part of any type of organized religion. Thoughts?
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Post by Ryan on Aug 13, 2007 15:59:23 GMT -5
Also Nathan, Do the workers endorse your site?
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 16:24:07 GMT -5
Also Nathan, Do the workers endorse your site? Many of the workers KNOW about my website. A worker just asked me to post my website page again on a list where some workers are on there. Steve B. was on this list so I got to read many of his emails. I have been on this list about 4 to 5 yrs.
I told an overseer on this list about my website. I called and talked to one of the sisters in North Dakota about a reporter's article who wrote about her and her companion Itinerant ministry lifestyle to post on my website.
The friends and workers at my convention know about my website because one of non-2x2 who came from Montana to attend Boring II, convention last yr. It was a big news because he was wearing shorts to Sunday convention. He and his wife knew some of the friends and workers at Boring Convention. The friends approached and told me how much they appreciate my website.you did not answer the question...
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Post by Ryan on Aug 13, 2007 16:24:15 GMT -5
I have already been guided to Jesus. But still have questions about some things.
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 16:27:11 GMT -5
I have already been guided to Jesus. But still have questions about some things. such as?
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Post by TMS on Aug 13, 2007 20:05:14 GMT -5
Also Nathan, Do the workers endorse your site? Many of the workers KNOW about my website. A worker just asked me to post my website page again on a list where some workers are on there. Steve B. was on this list so I got to read many of his emails. I have been on this list about 4 to 5 yrs.
I told an overseer on this list about my website. I called and talked to one of the sisters in North Dakota about a reporter's article who wrote about her and her companion Itinerant ministry lifestyle to post on my website.
The friends and workers at my convention know about my website because one of non-2x2 who came from Montana to attend Boring II, convention last yr. It was a big news because he was wearing shorts to Sunday convention. He and his wife knew some of the friends and workers at Boring Convention. The friends approached and told me how much they appreciate my website.
Yes, I know the workers, ex-workers have given my website to the friends, the workers and non-2x2 to read the information on there.Nathan, This just goes to show how shallow alot of the friends are (not all but most) that it was big news becasue a grown man was wearing shorts to a convention, which is hot by the way. Who cares what people wear? That is what I find so lame about the friends and workers is that they are some of the most judgemental people on earth that I have ever met! No matter what - they are so judgemental about what you wear or don't wear, its so lame, and I am sure God does not endorse this type of thinking. Give me a break..I wish a group that called itself the only true church on the earth would stop making such BIG NEWS ABOUT A GROWN AMERICAN MAN WEARING SHORTS TO A MEETING. WHO CARES? Be glad he wants to learn about God, not how long is the fabric on his legs. Its a grown man for heavens sake. Please people wake up. You have been slumbering for far too long.
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Post by more deception on Aug 13, 2007 20:08:10 GMT -5
Also Nathan, Do the workers endorse your site? Many of the workers KNOW about my website. What nathan should have said was: "No. The workers do not endorse my website."But nathan did not answer the question. No surprise. Funny that nathan says that questions are okay. Not so funny that nathan cannot answer questions posed to him.
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Post by see what I mean on Aug 13, 2007 20:09:15 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with asking questions. Nope, nothing wrong at all. It's too bad that you are incapable of answering them.
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 20:22:30 GMT -5
I have already been guided to Jesus. But still have questions about some things. Nothing wrong with asking questions. or answering them... are you going to answer the question posed to you above nathan?
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savedbyblood
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Post by savedbyblood on Aug 13, 2007 21:31:18 GMT -5
I have already been guided to Jesus. But still have questions about some things. Nothing wrong with asking questions. Nathan, Sometimes it is wrong to ask questions. Especially if you ask an Overseer to explain something from Scripture. Sometimes they get down right testy! Peace in Him, SBB
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savedbyblood
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Post by savedbyblood on Aug 13, 2007 21:40:27 GMT -5
I am fairly new to Bible reading. I see the Jehovah witnesses going 2x2 door to door, also the Mormans and apparently at one time or still in some places the workers.....Do any or all of these people going 2x2 think they are THE 2 witnesses? ?? The workers going 2x2: The older worker's part is to train, teach, sharing his experience with the younger workers to become preachers of the gospel, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
Yes, they are Jesus two living witnessess to testify He is the Lord God and Savior to whosoever believes in Him.Nathan, This also is what I was taught to believe. Can you help explain about the 12 sent first by Jesus? From each pair, which was the Elder Worker/Experienced Teacher and which was the Younger Worker/Learning Evangelist? These are the kinds of questions that either remain unanswered or ignored. Why? If a Worker doesn't know the answer, why not just say so rather than become defensive and behave in negative ways toward the Saint that asks the question? Peace in Him, SBB
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Post by freespirit on Aug 13, 2007 21:41:02 GMT -5
[ That is what I find so lame about the friends and workers is that they are some of the most judgemental people on earth that I have ever met! No matter what - they are so judgemental about what you wear or don't wear, its so lame, and I am sure God does not endorse this type of thinking. Give me a break..I wish a group that called itself the only true church on the earth would stop making such BIG NEWS ABOUT A GROWN AMERICAN MAN WEARING SHORTS TO A MEETING. WHO CARES? Be glad he wants to learn about God, not how long is the fabric on his legs. Its a grown man for heavens sake. Please people wake up. You have been slumbering for far too long. ::Nodding my head here:: And still praying for a more Christ centered vision for us all. peace, freespirit
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Post by Blind as a Bat on Aug 13, 2007 22:25:31 GMT -5
;D Yeah TMS, Hold You Horses!!!!! What were you thinking? ["It was big news because he was wearing shorts to Sunday convention." {MEANS} "The BIG news because he and his wife drive all the way from Montana to BoringII convention....."] Geez, even I knew this one. ;D
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Post by big news nathan on Aug 13, 2007 22:51:11 GMT -5
Nathan you wrote "it was big news because he was wearing shorts to Sunday convention." NAthan, they were your words, not TMS. YOu did not say the big news was anything other than them wearing shorts.
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Post by what nathan wrote on Aug 13, 2007 22:55:28 GMT -5
It was a big news because he was wearing shorts to Sunday convention. This is what nathan wrote. Plain, simple, cut & dried.
The "big news" was because the man was "wearing shorts to Sunday convention..." according to what nathan wrote.
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EXTRA EXTRAREAD ALL ABOUT IT
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Post by EXTRA EXTRAREAD ALL ABOUT IT on Aug 13, 2007 23:14:22 GMT -5
Oh my---you guys will never believe this---A MAN WORE SHORTS TO SUNDAY CONVENTION!!!!! Gee-Willikers, front page BIG news.
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Post by Post Moved on Aug 13, 2007 23:54:05 GMT -5
Nathan's post #21 should go between #17 and #18, he moved it. So some of the posts starting with #17 might not make sense because he moved his post.
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matia
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Post by matia on Aug 14, 2007 3:07:11 GMT -5
I do not believe that the 2x2s is for today , They use Mathew 10 for there belief , but did they not read Verse 1, ( And when he had called unto him his 12 disciples , he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sicknesses and all manner of diseases) now my question is is that not for today It is said that JESUS is the same yesterday , today and forever , We carry on reading that Jesus said to go not into the way of the Gentiles, ( thats us ) but go ye to the lost sheep of the house of Israel , Thats the Jews. Now in the Acts ch 2 where I believe the true church started from , and after they received the Holy Spirit the 12 and the 70 and the (120 Ch 1 Vs 15 ) all went out to preach THE GOOD NEWS, I may not have this correct but as I read it there appears that there were 1 disciple 15 times,2 at 11 times ,3at 7 times,4 at 2 times , 7 at 1 time ,8 at 1 time ,2 plus some others at 2 times , and 3 plus more at 2 times . What about Saul , now Paul, he did not have a 2x2 and he was SAVED through the ALL MIGHTY POWER OF GOD. I think I have rambled on enough ,
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Post by ii on Aug 14, 2007 4:03:52 GMT -5
The workers going 2x2: The older worker's part is to train, teach, sharing his experience with the younger workers to become preachers of the gospel, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
Yes, they are Jesus two living witnessess to testify He is the Lord God and Savior to whosoever believes in Him. living witnessess to testify He is the Lord God and Savior to whosoever believes in HimThe workers do not teach this.do in our neck of the woods
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Post by ii on Aug 14, 2007 4:05:08 GMT -5
Many of the workers KNOW about my website. A worker just asked me to post my website page again on a list where some workers are on there. Steve B. was on this list so I got to read many of his emails. I have been on this list about 4 to 5 yrs.
I told an overseer on this list about my website. I called and talked to one of the sisters in North Dakota about a reporter's article who wrote about her and her companion Itinerant ministry lifestyle to post on my website.
The friends and workers at my convention know about my website because one of non-2x2 who came from Montana to attend Boring II, convention last yr. It was a big news because he was wearing shorts to Sunday convention. He and his wife knew some of the friends and workers at Boring Convention. The friends approached and told me how much they appreciate my website. you did not answer the question... hummm policeman aye?
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Post by Visiting on Aug 14, 2007 7:39:57 GMT -5
2 Witnesses:
Exodus - 2 Tables of stone. Two records of God's word.
Deut 17v6 - At the mouth of two or three witnesses shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
- Seems one reason is so that it is a reliable witness. Both in agreement.
Eccles 4 V 9 & 10 - Two are better than one...if they fall one shall lift up his fellow: but woe unto him that is alone when he falleth...
- Seems there is safety in numbers. Many examples of this is the Old Testement. One to help the other in God's bidding - Moses and Aaron etc. (Aaron also a good example of why not one - Ex 32 - when Moses was up the mountain Aaron did what he thought was best and caused the people to suffer the wrath of God).
Matt 18 V 19 - I say unto you that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
Jesus was talking with the twelve. Necessary for two to be in agreement. Unlikely that two will ask for the wrong thing.
Mark 6 V 7 - And he called unto them the twelve and began to send them forth by two and two; and he gave them power over unclean spirits; ...
That is how Jesus sent his desciples forth - two and two - Two seems to indicate a completness in God's plan. He doesn't specifically say why, but this is the example left.
As for the second part of the verse that someone earlier in the post felt is ignorned, I disagree. It seems that it was only in the time of Jesus that there was natural healing, and this I guess is particularly for the Jews because sin was associated with natural disease. God is not concerned about our natural health but our spiritual, and I believe that those sent by God still go forth with this power.
Mark 11 V 1.. - Jesus sends 2 desciples to fetch the Colt. I believe this is symbolic of Jesus ministry - the desciples were required to bring the colt to Jesus, Jesus tamed the colt. The workers bring souls to God, God does the work.
Mark 14 V 12.. - Jesus sends 2 desciples to arrange the passover.
I don't claim to have a great understanding of the scriptures but this is how it appeals to me. It seems that there is added weight when the testemony of two agree. A single witness can be unreliable. A witness of two or three was required. So perhaps not exclusively 2 required but at least 2.
2 also seems to indicate a completeness in God's plan - Father/Son, Bride/Christ, Husband/Wife.
But also, when Jesus set that as the example, how can we be so foolish as to say that it is unnecessary.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Aug 14, 2007 7:55:19 GMT -5
The workers going 2x2: The older worker's part is to train, teach, sharing his experience with the younger workers to become preachers of the gospel, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.
Hello Nathan, I have to disagree with you here. I agree that the workers go out together two by two. To my knowledge no worker ever admitted they were an Evangelist, Pastor or Teacher when I was growing up. They referred to themselves as preachers or workers. These are specific roles for the body of Christ. Offices that are Anointed by Jesus Christ for a specific work. Each functioning in a different way. Different callings. They cannot be confused. BTW what happened to the Apostles and Prophets Nathan? Are they included? If you are serious about your comment you would have to describe the giftings of these Callings for the people to understand fully what you are saying. As far as I know or remember the laying on of hands was never discussed/accepted/encouraged as Godly for today in the meetings. And yet an Evangelist would lay hands on people so would a Pastor to pray the prayer of faith for healing. He would minister in healing and deliverance which would mean that the power of the Holy Spirit was flowing and bringing results and change in peoples lives.
Just had a thought......Elijah and Elisha worked together. Elisha wanting ELijahs mantel. I wonder if thats why the workers have an older and a younger one together?
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Post by Visiting on Aug 14, 2007 8:23:18 GMT -5
The workers going 2x2: The older worker's part is to train, teach, sharing his experience with the younger workers to become preachers of the gospel, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.Hello Nathan, I have to disagree with you here. I agree that the workers go out together two by two. To my knowledge no worker ever admitted they were an Evangelist, Pastor or Teacher when I was growing up. They referred to themselves as preachers or workers. These are specific roles for the body of Christ. Offices that are Anointed by Jesus Christ for a specific work. Each functioning in a different way. Different callings. They cannot be confused. BTW what happened to the Apostles and Prophets Nathan? Are they included? If you are serious about your comment you would have to describe the giftings of these Callings for the people to understand fully what you are saying. As far as I know or remember the laying on of hands was never discussed/accepted/encouraged as Godly for today in the meetings. And yet an Evangelist would lay hands on people so would a Pastor to pray the prayer of faith for healing. He would minister in healing and deliverance which would mean that the power of the Holy Spirit was flowing and bringing results and change in peoples lives. Just had a thought......Elijah and Elisha worked together. Elisha wanting ELijahs mantel. I wonder if thats why the workers have an older and a younger one together? Could you please explain to me where Jesus setup the specific roles in his ministry and gave them specific names? The word evangelist is mentioned just 1 time in my bible. Somehow I suspect that God is not particularly concerned with lables, appart from the few he specifically said not to use.
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Post by CherieKropp on Aug 14, 2007 11:09:10 GMT -5
Hubert Childers, deceased worker Overseer of Texas and Haiti, told outsiders who asked him what he did, that he was an evangelist. I personally heard Hubert tell in meeting some stories about him telling this to someone while he was on an airplane. I doubt this was a single instance.
I imagine some workers today would tell outsiders that they are missionaries. I heard one of the Oklahoma friends describe his sister who was a worker in Russia for awhile as a missionary.
It seems reasonable to explain what you do in a way that an outsider would understand and relate to.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Aug 15, 2007 6:46:38 GMT -5
Hello Visiting Could you please explain to me where Jesus setup the specific roles in his ministry and gave them specific names? The word evangelist is mentioned just 1 time in my bible. Somehow I suspect that God is not particularly concerned with lables, appart from the few he specifically said not to use. In these scriptures Paul is describing the way it should be in the body of Christ. Each person in the body of Christ[church]. Ephesians 4:7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men." 9(What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
God is only concerned with labels to identify the structure of authority within the Kingdom of GOd. Spiritual Authority which is not hieracheal. Certainly not to edify anyones personal pride, only to describe a function/role/calling.
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shushy
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Post by shushy on Aug 15, 2007 7:06:12 GMT -5
~~~ MOST of the 2x2s workers have many of Paul's special gifts in the ministry. I know Some workers have more of these gifts than others in their own ministry.
I cant agree Im sorry Nathan. Paul was an apostle. As an apostle he had funtcioned in all of the other 4 ministries. I dont mean to be disrepectful I seek understanding and get concerned if I feel there is erroneuos teaching. If any worker was a true Apostle there would be churches formed with Jesus Christ as the foundation. They would have all of the fivefold ministries functioning within that local church. People would be getting saved/healed/ delivered from bondage/set free. The churches would be exploding and people would be flocking. The blessing of God would be there. God would be moving in power. The ministries of Apostle and prophet have gifts of revelation. They work together. I do think that some workers are called but I doubt they are functioning properly.Simply because of the controls. Put it this way If they were I would have heard about it. Noone would be able to contain their excitment. Telling of the goodness of GOd and what GOd is doing in their midst.
To recognise any false ministry you would have to have experienced the true.
If the 'church' today was functioning as the early church, there would be no huge bank accounts or idolatrous edifices known as church buildings, the poor would be fed and clothed and starvation would not be a part of western society.
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