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Post by Ryan on Aug 13, 2007 13:23:13 GMT -5
For current friends like Bert and Nathan, what exactly is your motivation for being on this board...to convert exes back, answer questions from outsiders? ??......just wondering.
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 13:37:36 GMT -5
For current friends like Bert and Nathan, what exactly is your motivation for being on this board...to convert exes back, answer questions from outsiders? ??......just wondering. Learning what others are believing, belief in doctrines, their relationship with God. I am here to share my own experiences and understanding of my years in this fellowship from 1978-2007 as a 2x2.oh please... you are on here to defend your faith/church.... nothing more...
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Post by to natetwister on Aug 13, 2007 14:08:28 GMT -5
Nothing is wrong with it, natetwister. However, you weren't telling the truth in reply #1.
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Post by WHATEVER on Aug 13, 2007 14:13:04 GMT -5
You're such a hypocrite, nathan.
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Post by because on Aug 13, 2007 14:21:21 GMT -5
My handle doesn't alter the fact that YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE.
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none of those things
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Post by none of those things on Aug 13, 2007 14:49:37 GMT -5
My handle doesn't alter the fact that YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE. nathan, none of those things change the fact that you are a hypocrite. You have been caught in your hypocracy so many times I've lost count.
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Post by diet coke on Aug 13, 2007 14:49:39 GMT -5
omg. No way am I gonna post MY motivation if this is the reception it receives.
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no name calling about it
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Post by no name calling about it on Aug 13, 2007 14:55:42 GMT -5
it's not name calling. nathan exercised yet another instance of hypocracy and I'm simply pointing it out.
In another thread, he used a broad sweeping generalization about all exes.
The problem is that nathan is one of the loudest proponents against the use of broad sweepingi generalizations.
Thus...he is a hypocrite.
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 16:22:44 GMT -5
oh please... you are on here to defend your faith/church.... nothing more... So what is wrong with that? What is wrong is that you didn't list... it is the reason you are here... nothing more...
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Post by psuedo workers on Aug 13, 2007 17:49:55 GMT -5
There are several Worker-wanna-bees that post here on a regular basis. To them, "friend" status is not enough; they want to have a bigger role than merely giving their testimony in meeting and "being and example".
They are, however, unwilling or unable to be bona fide Workers; they come here one by one, not two by two. Maybe they were turned down for the Work. Maybe they were pushed out of the Work. Maybe they were booted from the Work because they failed to grasp the importance of the two by two concept that is the backbone of the sect.
A "friend's" role is one of attraction; they are to lead "honest, seeking souls" to Gospel Meetings so they can hear the Word from a bona fide pair of Workers.
Another key element they fail to grasp is that a true 2x2 believes that the Word is to passed face to face (in person), not over some new-fangled electronic device. So whatever these internet evangelists are selling, its not The Truth!
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 13, 2007 18:05:23 GMT -5
So what is wrong with that? didn't the exes on here in the past challenge any of the friends and workers come on here and to defend ours belief, our church teachings awhile back?[/quote][/b]
My dear brother Nathan,
There are a number of ex-2x2s who have often claimed that the friends and workers are incapable of defending the fellowship, which is why we have (apparently) recieved instructions not to interact with those who have left the Church.
Unfortunately, some ex-2x2s respond with a frenzy of hostility when someone actually advances an argument against their case. Or, they resort to tactics of silence - as evinced by my post a few weeks ago in which I raised three objections about referring to the fellowship as a "cult".
In response there was not a single post that actually engaged the matter presented. It represents the height of absurdity. On one hand we have a group of people claiming we cannot respond to their challenges; when we respond to their challenges in a meaningful and objective way, the majority response is abuse and ad hominem attack. As I have often said in the past, when people resort to ad hominem abuse, it is the sign of a failed argument. Because when you have nothing left to say, you need to resort to that kind of rhetoric.
(By the way, I am presently teaching a module on debating tactics in my English class. I am using the advice presented by a world-class debating team, who won 288 matches to exemplify this skill. Moreover, I can tell you that, in terms of the standard of argumentation given by ex-2x2s, they would have lost the vast majority of formal debates on all the key elements: matter, method, and manner).
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 13, 2007 18:08:39 GMT -5
[Someone - someone? Wrote] You're such a hypocrite, nathan.
Because Nathan omitted "defence of the fellowship" from his list of reasons for being on this forum? This is not hypocrisy by any stretch of the imagination! (Unless you have redefined the term).
Moreover, behind every accusation is a confession. I wonder whether there is not a good deal of hypocrisy in your life as well, which may explain your need to project that onto someone else?
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 13, 2007 18:20:31 GMT -5
What do all of you expect Nathan to act like when he is jumped on from all angles all day/night long on here??? There are many who do not, this is true...but there are a few who more than make up for the rest. and no...two wrongs don't make a right, certainly...but put yourself in Nathan's place....it certainly would grate after a while wouldn't it???(I know what the responses are going to be alreadyyyyy so don't expect another from me....I just wanted to say that.) Mich
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 13, 2007 18:22:01 GMT -5
[Bryan Wrote] What is wrong is that you didn't list... it is the reason you are here... nothing more...
Are you accusing Nathan of a sin because he did not list one of his reasons for being on the spiritual sewer that is the TMB, in his initial answer? Clearly you are.
And do you agree with the anonymous poster that Nathan is a hypocrite for so doing? Evidently you are in full harmony with him on this matter.
Let it therefore be on the record that Bryan finds agreement with the unpleasant individual who posts anonymously here, and thus has arrived (together!) at a functionally novel definition of what hypocrisy is, and indeed, is beginning to compile, define and declare a collection of internet sins (of omission).
I shall hold you to this standard in the future Bryan. Oh yes, I most certainly shall!
Moreover, I am partially amused and partially unimpressed that you can so easily adopt the "mantle of omniscience" so that you are able to declare with confidence what Nathan's motives are. This is called "judging upon an absent foundation", because you have no possible way of knowing what Nathan's motives are, or whether apologia is the only reason - "nothing more" - for Nathan to be here or not.
Let it therefore be on the record that Bryan now has the gift of discernment so that he can judge who is authentic and who is not. He joins with Brad, James and Jessi in knowing what is going on inside people's minds; in knowing people's beliefs, viewpoint and perspective better than the individuals themselves.
I'm not going to let this rest. You get away with far too much of this sort of nonsense, Bryan.
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 13, 2007 18:28:10 GMT -5
There are several Worker-wanna-bees that post here on a regular basis. To them, "friend" status is not enough; they want to have a bigger role than merely giving their testimony in meeting and "being and example".
(Snip! Cut rest of post).
Utterly sad. There is no other word for it.
So we are Worker wannabes because we favour of the fellowship? (I found the variation "Worker-wanna-bees" quite amusing - I have got to confess, however, that I'm not sure I am yet willing to take on the responsibility of pollen collection for the hive. A worker bee's life is not exactly a bed of roses, you know - well, maybe sometimes it is).
If we are Worker wannabes, does that make you a Pastor-wannabe? A priest-wannabe? A bishop-wannabe? I guess it does. And what's more, you do not need a companion! So the comparison works even better, would you not say?
Perhaps you think of yourself as Rev. Psuedo, the Internet Cleric? There's a certain ring about that which I rather like. And I've got to say, I'd agree with the title there, mate.
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 18:32:28 GMT -5
There are a number of ex-2x2s who have often claimed that the friends and workers are incapable of defending the fellowship The number I can think of is 1... that being Brad... Can you think of any others? Fallacy of Silence You can deduce nothing from silence, except silence. It neither proves or disproves a situation. Fallacy of Silence You can deduce nothing from silence, except silence. It neither proves or disproves a situation. Who are you talking about? Being right has little to do with debate skills...
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 13, 2007 18:41:46 GMT -5
Fallacy of Silence You can deduce nothing from silence, except silence. It neither proves or disproves a situation.
As those who have actually studied these fallacies are aware, there are exceptions, particularly in relation to the above. If you read carefully what you have written above, you will see that the logic is actually self-refuting.
If you can "deduce nothing from silence" then you have deduced something, haven't you? You have deduced that nothing can be deduced! All fallacies are applicable at a limited level, but are not the "be-all-and-end-all".
For example, I think that the silence of the Pharisees and Sadducees after being corrected by Christ on several occassions suggest that they had a failed argument; that they could not adequately answer; that there was nothing they could advance that would remedy their situation.
We are told that all mouths will be closed ("silent") before God on the day of judgement. (Hence the existence of the Law). What does that silence tell us? One can deduce a number of quite significant things from juridical silence, indeed!
Please, Bryan, please, please, please do not appeal to fallacies as the ultimate argument against those advanced by others. They are not. They are not meant to be used in that way. Rather they are intended to function as rhetorical tools in persuasive writing or speaking, not as a shut-off valve to the case presented by others.
Spare yourself the appearance of someone who does not have the foggiest idea regarding that which he talks about.
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 18:42:45 GMT -5
Are you accusing Nathan of a sin because he did not list one of his reasons for being on the spiritual sewer that is the TMB, in his initial answer? Clearly you are. Thank you for answering your own question... May I take a moment to answer it as well? Perhaps nathan simply forgot the main reason he is here... to defend his church/faith from us "bitter" and "unwilling" "enemies of the truth". Nathan has already been established as a hypocrite... The fact that he might or might not be in this thread is quite irrelevant to him already being one... You sure do make a lot of assumptions... Your guilt by association is laughable since I did not fully read the anonymous poster's post... Bully for you.... More baseless assumptions... He stated them once on another email list... I'm not guessing here, his primary motive came from his own writings... You are so smug... lol... Let what rest... your baseless assumptions... which, big surprise, are false?
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Post by 3 on Aug 13, 2007 18:44:26 GMT -5
"Being right has little to do with debate skills... "
You are correct. Right is right whether one knows how to defend it or not.
However, many who post here make assertions but do not (or lack the know how) give supporting evidence to back up their assertions. They are 'drive by posters' as someone else aptly pointed out.
I was raised in a controlling atmosphere and was not taught how to think critically. Couple that with the 2x2 environment that encourages group think and group speak. Then, throw in a high school english teacher who did not teach debate (!) I'm close to the 1/2 century mark and am just now learning how to be a critical thinker.
GIT brings up a valid point. It would behoove us all to work on our debating skills.
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 18:46:53 GMT -5
Fallacy of Silence You can deduce nothing from silence, except silence. It neither proves or disproves a situation.As those who have actually studied these fallacies are aware, there are exceptions, particularly in relation to the above. If you read carefully what you have written above, you will see that the logic is actually self-refuting.
If you can "deduce nothing from silence" then you have deduced something, haven't you? You have deduced that nothing can be deduced! All fallacies are applicable at a limited level, but are not the "be-all-and-end-all".
For example, I think that the silence of the Pharisees and Sadducees after being corrected by Christ on several occassions suggest that they had a failed argument; that they could not adequately answer; that there was nothing they could advance that would remedy their situation.
We are told that all mouths will be closed ("silent") before God on the day of judgement. (Hence the existence of the Law). What does that silence tell us? One can deduce a number of quite significant things from juridical silence, indeed!
Please, Bryan, please, please, please do not appeal to fallacies as the ultimate argument against those advanced by others. They are not. They are not meant to be used in that way. Rather they are intended to function as rhetorical tools in persuasive writing or speaking, not as a shut-off valve to the case presented by others.
Spare yourself the appearance of someone who does not have the foggiest idea regarding that which he talks about. LOL... I am not the one who made some grand assumption simply because no one responded to my posts...
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 18:47:56 GMT -5
"Being right has little to do with debate skills... " You are correct. Right is right whether one knows how to defend it or not. However, many who post here make assertions but do not (or lack the know how) give supporting evidence to back up their assertions. They are 'drive by posters' as someone else aptly pointed out. I was raised in a controlling atmosphere and was not taught how to think critically. Couple that with the 2x2 environment that encourages group think and group speak. Then, throw in a high school english teacher who did not teach debate (!) I'm close to the 1/2 century mark and am just now learning how to be a critical thinker. GIT brings up a valid point. It would behoove us all to work on our debating skills. Perhaps he could teach us... lol...
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Post by 3 on Aug 13, 2007 19:39:14 GMT -5
Yes, fmofthe2x2's, GIT could teach us well.
I know you & he have your differences but be a man and admit that GIT's writing style & content does bring a relevancy to this board & even raises the standard of it
No 'lol' following my comment.....
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Aug 13, 2007 19:41:16 GMT -5
to 3: *claps*
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Post by thats not it on Aug 13, 2007 19:52:18 GMT -5
[Someone - someone? Wrote] You're such a hypocrite, nathan.Because Nathan omitted "defence of the fellowship" from his list of reasons for being on this forum? This is not hypocrisy by any stretch of the imagination! (Unless you have redefined the term).
Moreover, behind every accusation is a confession. I wonder whether there is not a good deal of hypocrisy in your life as well, which may explain your need to project that onto someone else? No, that is not the action denoting nathan's hypocracy in this case. No cookie for you. Nice try twisting this back the other direction. Diversionary tactics are your forte.
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 20:21:02 GMT -5
Yes, fmofthe2x2's, GIT could teach us well. I know you & he have your differences but be a man and admit that GIT's writing style & content does bring a relevancy to this board & even raises the standard of it If by relevancy you mean self-satisfying, snobbish, pretentious, pompous, and a intellectual elitist... then yes, I agree... I do not question his ability to form a well qualified sentence, but his condescending demeanor peppered thoughout is nauseating...
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Post by _ on Aug 13, 2007 22:52:21 GMT -5
Bryan, you are no match for GIT when it comes to writing styles and content.... GIT is good. Nate gets all awestruck at big fancy words... Kind of like how my cat gets awestruck at pretty colors on the TV...
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Post by Visiting on Aug 14, 2007 6:38:55 GMT -5
Getting back to the issue as to why some of us "2x2s" visit this site, I came to the site with doubts and it caused me to consider the issues raised and what I believed, to read, to meditate and to pray and I'm glad to say that I believe now more than ever that God is in this. I'm not saying that there are not issues at times, but I accept that is a consequence of god using human beings - the churches in Revelations had issues - each specific to the church - but that didn't mean that God wasn't there.
I also in some way find it encouraging to see the hatred and bitterness that is harboured up by the "exs" - basically as Jesus said that the world would hate his followers. You could believe anything else and they wouldn't care. If what they have is the "Joy" that is outside this fellowship, then I am very content to share in the unity and love of those that are united through their faith in Jesus in this fellowship.
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Post by gloryintruth on Aug 14, 2007 7:05:43 GMT -5
[Bryan Wrote] Nate gets all awestruck at big fancy words... Kind of like how my cat gets awestruck at pretty colors on the TV...
As I have said in the past, the intellectual quality of some participants on this forum is not great. Honestly! How can you have any respect for a post that uses adolescent taunting like this? Paraphrase: "You're just like my kitty cat watching the telly!" (Insert thumbs into ears, splay fingers, and flap hands back and forth for full visual effect.)
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